Would a handicap system benefit player retention?
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Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
WAIT WAIT WAIT hear me out. Once the skill system is stabilized and we have a more-or-less accurate indicator of player skill... perhaps it would be a good idea to implement (at least on rookie friendly servers) a handicap system. Of course, this would need to be handled with care so as not to reinforce bad tactics/choices, but make enough of an impact to -- not necessarily completely level the playing field -- but at least close the gap a little bit.
I'll admit, I've joined rookie servers intending to teach them, and still end up stomping the other team in the process. Problem is... I'm only able to teach the people on MY team. The other team... well... they can't hear what I'm saying, and it's quite a bit of effort to type so many instructions in all chat. But if there was a way to increase their damage, while nerfing mine, or any other experienced player, I think this would even the odds quite a bit and really help get people accustomed to the game.
Of course, great care would have to be taken to ensure that people aren't trying to lower their score just so they can stomp elsewhere (hence the suggestion this only apply to "rookie friendly servers"). I'm also not sure how we could combat experienced players using rookie accounts... that could happen right? (or would they have to buy a new copy of the game every time?)
In fact... hell, this could be done with a mod RIGHT NOW. Unless some other modder is interested... I might take a crack at this myself real soon.
EDIT: Let me clarify, this wouldn't in any way make an experienced player less valuable to the team than a rookie, but rather give rookies a fighting chance against say... those marines that have ridiculously good aim, or that fade that never makes any mistakes.
I'll admit, I've joined rookie servers intending to teach them, and still end up stomping the other team in the process. Problem is... I'm only able to teach the people on MY team. The other team... well... they can't hear what I'm saying, and it's quite a bit of effort to type so many instructions in all chat. But if there was a way to increase their damage, while nerfing mine, or any other experienced player, I think this would even the odds quite a bit and really help get people accustomed to the game.
Of course, great care would have to be taken to ensure that people aren't trying to lower their score just so they can stomp elsewhere (hence the suggestion this only apply to "rookie friendly servers"). I'm also not sure how we could combat experienced players using rookie accounts... that could happen right? (or would they have to buy a new copy of the game every time?)
In fact... hell, this could be done with a mod RIGHT NOW. Unless some other modder is interested... I might take a crack at this myself real soon.
EDIT: Let me clarify, this wouldn't in any way make an experienced player less valuable to the team than a rookie, but rather give rookies a fighting chance against say... those marines that have ridiculously good aim, or that fade that never makes any mistakes.
Comments
No. I usually see stacked teams on these servers anyways.
1. Low-skill player armor and/or health and/or resource rate is increased (do not adjust high-skill armor/health)
2. High-skill player damage is decreased (do not adjust low-skill player damage)
If done the opposite way (increase low-skill damage and decrease high-skill armor), battles would be too short, resulting in the newb not having enough time to actually learn how to fight -- which is the whole point of this, I hope.
Also, this adjustment should be made relative to the average server skill level, to be calculated any time a player joins/leaves.
So, anyone within a certain range (e.g. -20% to +20%) of the server average skill level would not be adjusted at all. Anyone below the threshold would be buffed proportionally, up to a maximum (e.g. 2X). Anyone above the threshold would be proportionally nerfed, up to a maximum (e.g. 2X). In this example, a total newb would be given, at most, a 4X advantage (2X personal armor/health * 2X opponent damage reduction).
Couldn't agree more.
I think this would do more harm than good.
Do not increase rookie damage, that will teach them incorrectly.
If you're good enough to voluntarily handicap yourself, rookie damage shouldn't matter... just your own damage output.
However, Rookies are not counting that they can take 5 bites, they probably don't even realize when they are medpacked... they have tunnel vision and are just trying to kill that wall crawling dog/ dinosaur.
What if you tweaked res gain instead? Rookies get more res, which gives them more chances to try higher lifeforms and weapons. I worry about the early onos, but with how often rookies end up throwing their onos away anyway I don't think it would be THAT disruptive.
How about vets get less res, so they can't immediately re-fade? I think the basic idea is good, though
But keep in mind... they're not THAT good at the game to begin with. The idea is to give them enough chance to escape so they can actually learn from their mistakes. I'm not suggesting buffing/nerfing to the extent that it changes how the game should be played. I'm just suggesting a little bit of help given to rookies to compensate for NS2's ridiculously steep learning curve. It won't suddenly make a rookie as valuable as a div1 player. It certainly won't replace good advice from experienced players.
WelderMan is the TSF's greatest superhero, hardly mundane
I would think that if Pres income was based on K/D then the vets would get less by the very nature of their ability, just as rookies would get more for the same reason.
Perhaps a similar system like alien res in NS1 could be used? 1 pres gets added to a pool each tick for each player on the team, it then gets divided based on the K/D ratios.
Error forgiveness is just as important as surviving a fight for a rookie. Less rage-quitting due to getting a second chance after flashing their Fade or wasting Pres on shotguns over and over means players can keep trying and get better, working their way up to becoming vets.
Also, it makes killing those vets a MUCH bigger win since it will be much longer before they can get their better lifeform/gun again.
While it does not let them "live and learn" more often, it does let them try again after loosing SGs or Fades after one fight.
I can't emphasize that point enough. That's exactly what we need, ESPECIALLY for the rookies, but honestly it would be good all around.
Sure some of us won't be happy that we're being nerfed, but we're not ones to take it that badly. Plus as long as the server admins want to keep regulars happy, they'll listen to what they have to say.
Assuming it's handled with care, go for it.
See, I can wipe out an enemy rookie team all game with just my rifle, or just my teeth - if i play like how I want to play.
A voluntary reduction in my damage output means i can play to my heart's content AND allow the rookie more precious milliseconds in combat to learn how to play properly, instead of the typical frustrated player scenario from a steep learning curve FPS: *Walk around the corner and die instantly*
Edit: And yes Ghoul has already made this mod and it works..
... Not gonna work.
1 / Player buys game, install and launch the game. Right now (s)he's like a Pavlov dog with lots of saliva and a tail that move rapidly. The first thing done is configuration (mostly key binding and graphics) then (s)he go directly to the server section. The first server (s)he choose is the one that has a low ping and as many players in it as possible. Needless to says that the 24 slots servers (with already modified balance) gets more attention.
2 / They all think it's a FPS game. He gets stomped (what else on a 24 server slot). (S)He feels (s)he couldn't even play. You know the rest. The 24 slots server just make it worse as they get stomped, and most of the time they don't acquire the right information and feeling about NS (Not only a FPS; 6vs6 etc...).
Your idea can't work as long as rookies have the choice to go to a regular server and get stomped. I see you have already the answer : To drive them on the rookie friendly moded servers with a locked server filter for the first few hours (2 to 10). remind me of something already...
Then what ? The Vets won't be interested in playing with a handicap on that kind of servers. No challenge in it if you think about it seriously. So they will teach over people with the same issue you mentioned (only the team your in). Needless to say that vets want to play too, not only teach. And they would prefer to play regular NS instead of "Lollypop NS". The result is you won't have many vets in there to provide "pedagogy". Repetition is the key to pedagogy but it's using a lot of energy for poor results most of the time. Especially with gamers.
Modifying damage/armor is not the best in my opinion as it won't teach (self-teaching) to try to be clever and efficient. And vets will eventually get bored by that. Sitting duck shooting contest.
I prefer to make a resource income modification. Then again Vets will have the advantage. Or allow re-buying things for a cheaper price. This last one is the closest to regular-public-NS. You still have the regular NS, but have a second and third chance (to buy whats lost) unless things go really ugly and bad. Things i already proposed in some other posts.
Then we have the private admin case. Any admin that launch and maintain a server on its own (money included) is more likely to push on regular servers (up to competitive) than rookie servers. This would end up in having the Rookie-classroom-mod on UWE official if you want it to be efficient. Installing it on one server never gonna work.
I wish for the rookie to get in the game in a better way too. Intentions and dedication are appreciated but i believe the initial post won't work. And you would end up in loosing your time making such a mod.
A handicap system would possibly fix the problem, but I think that is the wrong approach.
I think match-ranking servers would be the best solution:
UWE has to provide several Ranking-servers. Any player can klick on a "join ranking match" button at the main menu. The player will automatically join a random Ranking-server. Further players, who also select "join ranking match" will join ranking-servers with players of the same skill-level. If there are 12-20 people at a server, the match will start. After the match, a new skill-rank for each player will be calculated.
Thus, rookies can play with each other, are able to learn gameplay step for step and will have much more fun than getting punished by 1000 hrs+ gamers . If they improve their skill, they will join (automatically) higher skill-rank servers.
But there's still one problem: I think nowadays the community is too small for ranking-systems. When there are just 5-10 european servers online each day, a ranking-system will be senseless.
Well what are we waiting for? This needs to go on every rookie friendly server!
Eh... I'm still in favor of mandated handicapping, but I personally would voluntarily handicap myself on these servers as well. Pub Stompers on the other hand... I can't see them using the handicap feature. Maybe add a voting system where instead of just kicking the amazing player, if they get enough votes, they can just handicap them?
Are we going to have to start a pub-stomper witch-hunt to thin the opposition to this? Seriously, wtf do you care if rookies are given a leg-up?
Well SOMEONE ELSE make a suggestion then. And no, the game is not just fine the way it is... our numbers would be 4-fold what they are now if it was "just fine".
It fizzled away and died after I attempted to correct this misinformation because no one responded.
Was very frustrating.
Lord knows the reason behind the NO's now..
DOUBLE NEGATIVE.
I don't care in fact, i just need to be clever than them. That's the whole point of this game.
Give them a chance to fight the 1on1 won't get them to pay attention to the big picture. Like protecting RTs, IPs and such. I can end the game fast killing IPs, or RTs and not even engage them (like a ghost). They won't learn anything or get more interested.
What's the point of giving the big sword to somebody not aware that there are other things to take care of in the game ? In fact it would eventually encourage them to do the "Rambo stuff" more than usual...
Immersion in the real game with a little boost on economy is far more efficient IMO. Less code/mod/time/admin. Can you do your thing in less than a month with full deployment on many servers (and acceptance by private admins) ? While economy modification are already there and official (Comp mode vs public. I love the fact you can medspam with only 2 RTs...) A filter locked for rookies won't be a huge headache for game coder either.