Natural Selection 2 F2P?
Ryssk
Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members
Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members
Is there any plans of doing Natural Selection 2 a F2P like NS1 ? And what's the current selling number of the game? Cause it feels like the most servers are running empty cause of the number of players. A great boost would be to make the game F2P. Cause right now the developing team is focusing on Subnautica, and not NS2....
Comments
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135497/how-is-ns2-faring/p1
Is relevant
For starters it would open the door for hackers... Get caught hacking? No biggie for a F2P game, just 30 seconds and you have a new account with a new copy of the game...
Besides even if you completely remove hackers from the equation, you still have a F2P environment... Most F2P players won't care about the game, or using teamwork, or anything else for that matter. A rookie wave during a sale is bad enough sometimes, going F2P would be like a rookie wave 24/7/365...
So in a nutshell... Free to play = Very hostile and toxic community full of hackers/griefers/trolls/etc.
There will always be hackers, no matter which game you play, and we've seen that in NS2 even now when it's not a F2P. But still no banns....
And NS1 had F2P, plenty of players and compteams.
Well, everybody started from somewhere, not everybody is a pro like you straight from the start, they start to play it, and if they feel like to keep on continue they will do it. But usually on the Public servers what i see people write "Oh you fucking noob, omfg a green rookie, jump out from the chair you dont know nothing"... I would say the people who already plays it are hostile against the new players..
And f2p will cause only problems for ns2. If I like the game, I will buy it. If I don't like the game, I won't play it despite it is free. I don't play Dota/WoT but it's free, and I won't play Diablo/WoW even if it becomes free.
I didnt say that ALL the servers are empty, and what im trying to get at, it's just evolving the number of players who play ns2.. right now the competitive scene with the amount of players is quite the same, between 1-5 new teams created each season and a few disbanding.... And it's usually the same players (Thank god for those who stick around)
Just trying to gather the information what people think, and what's the downside and upside of everything with the F2P if we somehow "NS2 fanboys/girls" could convince the UWE of doing a change instead of trying with Humble Bundle (or whatever the sales are called)
That's not to say I support the idea of a free to play NS2 just yet. As long as the player base is big enough to sustain the game (as multiplayer game, NS2 only exists if enough people play it), and it's still making money of sales, there's no reason to make it free to play.
F2P games would also require some sort of income model, Reinforced is all well and good but the transactions aren't "micro" enough to entice new players to cough up money. There's also very little to gain in game from buying a Reinforced tier (other than the bloody shadow skins. I don't care what anyone says, for me, they are harder to see than the regular ones).
Games like Dota2 and LoL do indeed make most or all of their money from cosmetic changes, but those games have a ton of premium stuff to choose from as well as an engine built to support it (as far as I know, NS2 would have a hard time dealing with so many varying sound, skin and model assets).
The last thing we want is a bs Pay 2 Win variant, like "extended weapon clips", "additional weapon slots", "personal res packs" etc.
While f2p could be life support for a dead game, NS2 isn't quite there yet.
But yeah the game isnt rookie friendly, but there will always be the bunch of people who rather takes the easy way instead of trying to understanding the game and how it's supposed to be played. And imho it's a good thing! Like CoD4 Promod was, the people who played it really put effort to playing the game, and it was the same as NS2 (It only got worse with the number of player base)
I understand your point, and in 2014 internet is quite open these days with the flaming and the trolling. But then there is the people who really are "normal"
This is as i said before a post where you put down your ideas, like you did perfectly
Of course there will always be hackers, I never said there weren't... However the level of hacking we have now is in the "are they really hacking" category and not the "look at this guy with 200 kills and 0 deaths" category. Go F2P and you open the door for stupidly obvious hacks like god-mode...
As far as NS1 goes... correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that a mod? As in the mod itself is what was free and not the base game the mod was built off of... Free to play means you can open a new steam account, download the game and play it without spending a single penny. Can you do that with NS1?
You shouldn't jump to conclusions... I never even suggested that I was "pro" for one thing, and I very rarely see people being hostile to rookies for no reason. Usually the hostility only shows up when said rookie flat out ignores everything said to them and ruins the game for 20+ people in the process.. (like rookie comms who blow all the Tres without dropping an extractor) - In fact I'd even say NS2 has one of the nicest communities of any online game I've ever played... So many games I've seen vets taking the time to teach rookies the ropes.
See that's the thing... I see the rookie waves we get now as 85% of them listening and trying to learn the game, with the other 15% ignoring everything, ruining games, and generally making zero effort to learn the ropes. (usually accompanied with complaints of how much the game sucks, how dead it is, why do people play it, blah blah blah) My fear with F2P is that you'd destroy that nice atmosphere NS2 has of rookies willing to learn and vets willing to teach...
Last but not least... I've played some other F2P games and they have hands down the most toxic, vile, evil communities I've ever imagined possible in online gaming... So toxic that I now avoid F2P games as if they were the plague... Would really hate to see that happen to NS2.
Actually this is the dumbest response so far, we are keeping everything at normal level with talking both pros and cons of what a F2P could mean to NS2, and so far there arent any "vialable" solution or response to have it. But i think the only one who could give the best answer is the actual developer team from NS2 (UWE)
But yeah, maybe not a F2P just as many says, it's a too complicated game to just "start" with and think you can be the best.. It deserves some time.. But there are always a few % that could actually get some more time into it.
And read this, MAYBE the best solution like in NS1, was to have it as a mod for half-life 2. But that's easy to say without knowing anything about how creating games xD
Take CS for example, even though the mod was free, you still needed a copy of HL on your account to play. Plenty of hackers in that game, simply because of the player base it attracted, NS1 on the other hand only had occasional hacking. The entry point was exactly the same for both games.
With NS2, there are plenty of barrier of entry you can establish to make it harder for people to just pop right back with a new account, from IP bans to minimum play time and probably a lot more.
Lastly, lets be honest. If someone is dedicated enough to the idea of hacking they can pick up a ton of keys during one of the many humble or Steam sales for a relatively low cost.
While hacking is and always will be an issue, I doubt a paywall is the deterrent you make it out to be.
Servers running empty is irrelevant, as that does not equate to a thriving game. I suppose those empty servers could close down, and just have the most popular servers always full. Which would in turn have people having to wait to play the game or...who would have guessed, make a server for people to join. At the end of the day, if you have somewhere to play with players to play against, you will play.
One of the other games I frequent is Guns of Icarus Online, it has 75 players on average with 120 peak (non sale or promo) That's significantly smaller than NS2, yet every day I can log on and join a lobby with my friends, and if no lobbys are available I make one, and people join and we play.
This game is in a similar boat as NS2, but still fairing well considering their player base and non-existent servers. It is also a very different game than NS2 yet appeals to a niche market.
I shudder to think that if someone can't purchase a full game experience for <$3 USD, if they have any business playing it in the first place. With Mobile games ranging for around the same price, and plenty of sales, a pre-teen with a paper route or an allowance could afford it. It does not change the fact that the game remains niche and has a difficult learning curve, at which I've exhaustively tried for hundreds of hours to try and remedy.
Most players in this explorative "let's try a new game" mood have a massive plethora of games on multiple platforms in which to play, it's up to them to decide if it's worth it for them to put in the time to get good at it, or pass for something more appealing. Which is precisely why games like Candy Crush and Minecraft caters to casuals, and fighting games and Starcraft to some pretty hardcore players. It's also why Call of Duty and Battlefield also have their groups that don't mesh well, almost to the point of religious hated of the other regardless of how similar they are.
Let's take for example the HBZ pub server. You need 150+ hours to play on it (which is not that much if you rly like the game). Most hakcers will either have a private steam profile and won't be able to join on this one or will hopefully be banned before they reach the 150 hours.
The only problem is that rookies would be doomed to play with hacker so those servers would need some admins to clear them (first person spectator fixed would be awesome for that but I think CDT working on that already).
Things might get complicated if hackers decide to invade gathers, but I think @Zefram is doing a great job at hunting those people and finding fake accounts (example: zebroe (only fake accounts on zebroe he is not a hacker AFAIK))
These forums lately remind me of the time where I played WoW and would check out the forums there regarding betas and class balance, just an absolute mess with constant complaining or heralds of doom claiming to be original, important and different. While I embrace the debates when the topic at hand is relevant and somewhat intrinsically important to the game, discussions and threads like this just become rote after a point, the same redundant arguments and posts over and over and the response is almost always the same.
In our case, you cannot only compare different games without a competitive scene. NS2 has a competitive side and what @Ryssk is probably trying to explain and I fully agree with this statement is the max number of teams and players falling, in the competitive community.
It is exactly like all the other games and NS2 isn't an exception. Months after months, the overall playerbase is decreasing but why do you think there are games that changed their type of sale, getting F2P? I have no idea if a such thing on a such game is a nice thing to do, I have no idea if it can help and at least, attempt to heighten the playerbase for both competitive and public. That's why the title has been asked with a question form, right?
Of course, making the game F2P means a lot of work to increase performances (already done in my opinion with the latest builds), creating a kind of skins system (Reinforced and Kodiak Pack are a good start) for weapons, armors, and maybe structures I don't know. + other ideas probably for those that get crazy thoughts.
Back to the hacker's subject, it doesn't really make sense and matter I think. There are already plenty of hackers, in both competitive and public scenes again, most of the people didn't even notice them but I can tell you when you spectate plenty and plenty of matches, it appears easier for you to notice the weird and dodgy reactions. Is that a problem? Yes, it is. But we have awesome active admins most of the time on public servers. Referees and Admins on NSL (or AusNS2) to make sure nobody is cheating (even if it's definitely harder without 1st person view). If you increase the overall playerbase you'll also increase the number of cheaters and hackers. This is one of the issues but you cannot have a perfect world in a free game (something already hard to get on a paid-game). It's like take the risk or fall with your regular and daily players (this won't bother me actually but I tend to prefer the F2P system though).
NS2 really deserves to be purchased, not to be downloading for free only. I did it, many and many players did it too like you on these forums. It has been released more than a year ago, a bit/so much more for those that were here since the very beginning of NS2 but do you really think you can keep this system? And here, I'm trying to talk to the players, not the developpers. This is an amazing game but trying other solutions or ideas, even if they fail should be tested now or in the next months. If something like that needs to be done, it is probably better to do it before the impact of a such system does not affect anyone 'cause of a too small playerbase.
Maybe you didnt noticed but the HBZ pub server is offline.
Why? It was empty most of the time.
Back to topic:
F2p wont solve anything.
As long people dont care where they play (rookies joining a server with 150hrs+ in the name instead rookie only servers. Vets joining rookie only servers instead 150hrs+ servers) this game is killing itself.
Bringing a endless wave of rookies to the game is only a fest for the typical pubstomper.
Sorry if i came forward as "hostile" by calling your MeMe post as the "dumbest" especially coming from a CDT member as you are meanwhile trying to get opinions from people by pointing out the pros and cons... im very sorry for that.. next time i'll try to do a more RATIONAL reply where you dont get offended.
Im sorry, where have people complained in this thread? My intention was to just gather some information regarding pros and cons with having NS2 as a F2P.. And just pointing out if there's been such a discussion maybe within the CDT together with the UWE... Nothing else.
AFAIK there's not been a single complain about this.. Except from 1 CDT member that just didnt like this topic, but that's it... All the other's does have quite good points with both bad examples with having F2P and some good ones.
And as Pelargir explains (i think he's my brother from another mother with same mind but with better english)
But to see the effort actually CDT does on their free time + a few supportive members from UWE doing for the game seems like "wasteful" for us fanboys, cause we are the ones sticking together, giving the hint and tips like what could be improved for a degreasing player base both in public and competitive scene.
And by wasteful i dont mean they do a shitty job, i just feel sorry that they put plenty of hours to fixing a game, that's not going forward with getting more people into it.. but actually loosing a few players here and then. Ofcourse some poeple get kids,gf,jobs and whatever... but no new ones are coming cause the game actually costs 23 euro... and you dont know a whack about the game.
Should you really be spending 23Euro for a game that you dont know anything about? Or waiting for a humble bundle, and not everyone is sitting and visiting those kind of pages every day (especially not me, and a few friends of mine)
Ahh yes, a cool glass of sarcasm to chase down that hearty serving of hostility.
And you're right, the UWE dev team isn't working on NS2, that's no secret, the CDT is.
Should UWE decide to flip that F2P switch on because of "empty servers" that's their call, but at least we know we'll bring in more charming players with...colorful posts such as this.
Have a great thanksgiving everybody!
So you think ns2 player base is too small? I'll use this quote to show my point. Since spoilers don't work in quotes, you can follow this link.
Lets say we made it f2p. Ns2 got some decent media coverage. Then we had a huge surge of players. We would have no way of keeping them playing. Ns2 has a steep learning curve. Heck, I would have considered myself a rookie for my first 300 hours but I am a bad gamer. Others say it took them 100 hours to not be such a rookie. Rookies aren't just bad, they are really bad in comparison to today's veterans. The skill divide is immense.
Before we can even consider ns2 going f2p we would need to make ns2 significantly better at retaining players. Or else we will shortly fall back to where we are now or worse.
On top of that, increasing ns2's ability to retain players is a near impossible task. The game is just too hard for the average casual gamer. Going f2p won't fix that. Again, I will use a quote to make my point.
So in the end, free to play won't fix the core reasons why ns2 has a small player base.
The funny thing, is that you are concentrating one one post, and one goal in mind.. w/e you have your opinion for yourself that's not even relevent with this thread. This thread is supposed to be about the Pro's and Cons with having a F2P (Just ideas, not that the UWE will ever do this kind of thing) but maybe it could evolve into something bigger where it concentrates into trying to bring in more members. The Humble Bundle is a great way to start, and steam sales.. but to selling a game, you have to have a good "selling point"
You take Guns of Icarus Online as an example, i've actually never heard of a WC in it, i've never actually seen it on Twitch, but NS2 has been, and is still on the list. So that's a good starting point. We had @RedDog and @blind as great casters, but these guys are now gone. Now we have new people who are slowly rising up ahead and hopefully showing how the game is. But sometimes that's not enough
And you cant have Candy Crush and Minecraft as an exemplar of a game.. how much do they cost? AFAIK Candy Crush is Free.. Minecraft is a Single-player/Multi with a low cost + low requirements on your computer...
Please keep to the topic
And Sarcasm together with Hostility? You're the one whole started the whole thing with trolling the topic with a freaking MeMe and then callind a comment "dumbest" as hostility... Please dont throw rocks into a glashouse.
I think he meant the topic, not so much the discussion itself.
@pelargir there isn’t thanksgiving anywhere but murica.
anyway. I've said it before (and given my reasons)
F2p will hurt NS2. Not Help it.
...have you ever been around in F2p weekends? I'm not particularly saying anything against newbies, it's just the way the community reacts to it.
In australia, 90% of the vet population.. ups and dissapears.
Excepting maybe comp players for our league, who kind of have to play a game a week to keep the admins away, right @bonage?
As we spoke in above, everybody knows the learning curwe (spelling?) is quite hard for ns2, especially as a commander, i got a friend as a example (he bought the game in beginning and never got the hang of it, and he loves games like starcraft 2) but it was too fast for him to command. But that's what makes the game interesting
And nobody so far here has told the game itself NS2 is bad, just that we want more teams to play against, more leagues where something like coverage,casting and fun people gather together with and if a change like F2P could make it happen, or do it worse! And so far, many people has made good arguments what F2P could mean. F2P is always a risky deal, but sometimes a huge hit! Like LoL (which a whole different game and not using as a example except as a F2P).
Most of us know that it will never be a monster success, we know the fact, but it just would be more "fun" to get a higher player base just all.. and this topic was meant to be, would the F2P increase it? If so, what would happen with game and it's people if would be so? More Hackers? More Toxic? Or vice versa? You never know, but maybe some people got good examples, tips and hits.. without Memes
Edit: just realised that my Firefox hates to do smileys in UWE forums... in other words... im hostile.. beware!
F2P is not being worked on right now. It's not in any plans we have at this moment in time and the CDT are not working on it. However, if the playerbase drops to dangerous levels, it's something that can't be taken off the table and we would be negligent to do so.
However, for now, I dont see it being needed. It is always great to have options though, rather than no choices. Glad we're in a spot where this is possible and we can discuss ideas.