Marines jumping just as high, if not higher than Skulks.
zeep
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3367Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3367Members
How is this even a thing?
When playing Skulk it's so crazy to see rines jump very high. Like easily the same height. Was NS always this way?
In NS2 many confrontations end up in a jumping contest, and lately i'm just wondering about it. I think i've always found it silly to look at, just never posted about it.
Don't mean to rub you all the wrong way btw!
When playing Skulk it's so crazy to see rines jump very high. Like easily the same height. Was NS always this way?
In NS2 many confrontations end up in a jumping contest, and lately i'm just wondering about it. I think i've always found it silly to look at, just never posted about it.
Don't mean to rub you all the wrong way btw!
Comments
Crazycat, yes i know. It's not that i can't deal with it, i just wondered if it became more evident or i'm just looking at it more. In NS1i enjoyed gameplay just as much, never bothered me much there.
I think the idea was to nerf Skulks heavily enough so the Alien team requires higher lifeforms to keep up, especially more Lerks as soon as those are available.
More like "trying to balance upon the lag issue". If this game didn't have that big obstacle; Strafe jump would have never be born.
Still a crappy mechanic for marines to out jump skulks though... Cos the f$#%ing strafe jumping marine can jump around all the props and shoot me dead every time.
@Seb so true. I was on a game a few nights ago, when the marine and I danced for 10 seconds. I was a skulk, and the marine was jumping on some chairs in Bamboo towards Falls over and over in a circle. He couldn't hit me cos the jumping screw with the aim, but I couldn't keep up due to his great duking on the various chairs in the area. In the end, he got skulk crashed(tm) by 2 others and I. But we had a laugh at the end because I literally couldn't catch him due to good strafe jump acceleration.
Tip#2 : ground-strafing-skulk 4 LYFE
I have never seen that before and bet everything i own that we cant reproduce this.
But we can try. you stand still in the middle of crossroads and i try to run under your feed.
Im sure i could try this 24 hrs nonstop and it would never happen.
Things like that happen if marines are jumping like idiots to avoid skulk attacks.
You probably had not been standing there for long.
Lag compensation means that what you see of other players is not actually where they were, you are seeing their trail, lagged up by rougly 100+2 x latency... so if you step in the path of a lagged skulk, that skulk will run through you (because on his screen, you were not there when he ran through that spot).
Best way of doing that is to find a really lagged server, then try to step in front of moving skulk. If the skulk is moving fast enough and with enough latency, you will see him pass right through.
To the skulk though, you are just being silly and WAY late.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133455/please-remove-the-ability-for-marines-to-constantly-jump-all-the-time/p1
I've always felt like both marines and skulks don't jump as high in NS2, but that may be an illusion from the sloppy way in which player-world collisions work. In NS1 you were a block, in NS2 you are a capsule as a marine and a sphere as a skulk. This means your "feet" is a round shape and that makes balancing on things very sloppy. With a flat bottom balancing on railings and the like is very easy. I think the reason it's done this way in NS2 is that there are so many little knick-knacks everywhere that you'd have problems just running without getting stuck otherwise.
If you look at two marines standing next to one another facing you, and ask one to jump in place, you'll notice he actually *clears* the head of the marine next to him.
Quite impressive Olympians, those space Marines.
Why do you need 100+ hours to get skulk play right?
I dont want to post the video "If Quake was done today" again.
Thats why.
Thank god NS2 is not one of these dumbed down games.
Although I agree that I enjoy ns2 not being a dumbed down game, I do think it is possible to have an easier learning curve with better retention and still have the ns2 we love.
It's NS2. If you start going this way, what are you going to do next, remove the vertical component of blink? Make lerks croak as they fly around...?
I don't think making the game "more accessible" is necessarily going to bring people in or make them stay. Most of the kinds of people who complain about marines jumping (btw, as a skulk, you can jump too - and actually you can jump off the walls as well?) will probably find something else to complain about more or less instantly.
I am not saying I like devels solution, or any of the purposefully bad ideas you mentioned, but there is room for improvement. Player retention has been the biggest problem plaguing ns2. Performance was one thing that kept people from playing, and it currently is the best we have ever had it. What is a bigger problem is the learning curve. It took me 300 hours to become any kind of good. That was me, a bad gamer. For many it is more around 100. For most gamers this is far too much time to learn the basics.
It could be better and still not dumbed down.
Also, the lerk already growls sort of when flying if you didn't know.
As far as the marine-skulk fights, there probably is room for improvement, but what does "improvement" mean? The better players probably want to have it harder for marines actually/faster paced (faster movement)/skulk smaller/etc. etc. - like Tane/Fana were saying in one of the other threads. And the noobs want... lower marine jumps -_- .
I'm not sure if I can say "it takes X hours to become good." It's all about learning different things and putting them together. And this game is obviously not just being individually good. An individually good player can easily be cockblocked by 2 average players working together on the other team.
I feel like most of the complaints about the alien game to begin with is that even if we put aside the awkwardness of aiming a melee weapon (i.e. a really short range shotgun "cone") it relies a LOT on positioning, movement, and specialized movement (using walls/objects on the map as cover etc.). I feel like when I started NS2 I had pretty decent aim, but even though I played some Q1/Q2 when I was younger, the movement was just not there at all. I had never strafe jumped for a prolonged period of time (the people where I played Q2 weren't THAT good), and honestly the contemporary shooters just don't train you for that hardly at all. Most of the modern shooters use cover, but at the critical times it's all about twitch aiming, mostly staying still when you take the shot, and then possibly getting behind cover. That helps you just nearly zero with aliens in NS2.
If you don't want to ambush (which gets kind of boring although it's reasonably effective), even to get to a place where you can attempt a "shot" (bite) at a marine, you have to have pretty decent movement and dodging skills. And then there's lerk which is kind of like an arcade flight simulator, lol...
SO, instead of whining about jump, I actually feel like they need to make some training maps for noobs to practice just walljumping/strafe jumping/dodging while approaching marines/etc. etc.
Sure, you can load up a training map and practice, but it gets boring without objectives. I'm thinking about something like the kz maps for CS.
They want the game to -force you- into strategically good spots. They want to walk into a room and tap A repeatedly to move into position, and then sit there shooting aliens that come one-at-a-time, and if the alien gets close you die every single time.
If a lerk or fade gets close, it brings both players into a quick time event where you have to roll the analogue stick around in circles as fast as you can.
They want flamethrowers to be more effective at killing aliens than W3 shotguns.
Basically people want gears of war + AvP. But this is NS2 so they're gonna have to suck an egg
I wrote a long reply about skill-floors, skill-ceilings and skill-curves, then realised I was wasting my time.
If you're attitude is as simplistic as this, you would never understand that making a game easier for new players does not mean you have to dumb it down at the top end.
Also, Quicktime events? I didn't realise you were a console gamer...
As an oldskool and still avid Quake player i understand how important (circle/strafe) jump physics can be in a game.
That said, in NS2 whenever there's a jumping party going on with marines attacked by skulks, to me it feels like the tactical advantage shifts towards marines, with fairly fast acceleration in strafing. No gamebreaker, i abide by the rules and enjoy NS2 no less.
Lastly, i don't think there are many new NS2 players around here anymore, mostly long term players. So it's childish to call people 'noobs' just when they question certain aspects of the game. You don't have to do that. Nobody wants a quicktime movie here either. And we've all seen "if quake was done today" long ago already.