I want to see a video of what @twiliteblue made to compare.
Bonus points if you can do a side by side slow mo comparison..
Would be nice to see a comparison to see the comparison from a Skulk's PoV at close range. I've been wondering if the speed reduction of 2 would make a difference.
what I've noticed is that marine can jump backward at least twice the distance of skulks forward jump, makes it really unfair for skulk. I'd like to see marine's backward jumping ability LOWERED and backward walking increased. with skulk only capable of attacking at close range, it sure balance out both. So we won't be seeing skulks constant circle jumping a marine who can out jump them by pressing back and jump
what I've noticed is that marine can jump backward at least twice the distance of skulks forward jump, makes it really unfair for skulk. I'd like to see marine's backward jumping ability LOWERED and backward walking increased. with skulk only capable of attacking at close range, it sure balance out both. So we won't be seeing skulks constant circle jumping a marine who can out jump them by pressing back and jump
that's not a backwards jump its a side jump. Moving backwards faster would mean you would be able to gain distance from a skulk while keeping it within your vision / within your crosshair. My understanding is that as it stands the current strategy of turn > ,jump > try to find your target again in mid air balances out nicely with skulk distance-closing techniques.
If you can come up with a better way to balance it out, by all means share it!
The common "solution" I see people proposing is accuracy penalities while backpeddling. However reducing accuracy during backwalk is NOT a solution; as has been discussed several times, in a game like NS2 where 1 or 2 bullets can make a big difference, controllable accuracy reduction would actually be a significant buff for marines at close distances.
what I've noticed is that marine can jump backward at least twice the distance of skulks forward jump, makes it really unfair for skulk. I'd like to see marine's backward jumping ability LOWERED and backward walking increased. with skulk only capable of attacking at close range, it sure balance out both. So we won't be seeing skulks constant circle jumping a marine who can out jump them by pressing back and jump
You've been here since January 2013 and have created 2 of your own jumping threads. You should know better by now and undoubtedly do. 0/10 troll.
SebMelbourne, AUJoin Date: 2013-04-01Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
I might make a video on this at some point with @Jekt or someone if they are interested/have time. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding about what good movement is, and also what to do in situations where they think they are getting out-maneuvered.
Sooo, what I need to understand about good movement and what do I do in a situation where I think I am getting out-maneuvered?
BTW are there any good frame by frame first person vids(no spectator and no 24 fps youtube thing) of good players? Maybe add them to tutorial vids, if you think it's just a problem of lack of education, no?
EDIT: Nice, there actually is short clip explaining strafing ingame (Too bad it is stupid skulk in it, could have as well stood still), The moving together vid is kind of a bad example (they are too close to each other). Still would be nice to have representative vid of full alien and marine game from good player in good/fair game as a last tutorial.
youtu.be/OKfpQ8sqfN0 He goes on about side walking/strafing, and then kills gorge and two skulks by back jumping.
Ive actually found lvl 0 marine against lvl 0 skulk to be too easy for a long time, though im not surprised ironhorse likes his own suggestion. It just makes no sense for them to really be balanced, because the economies and utility of the life forms are so different. consider the speed of skulks vs the speed of marines and build mechanics and all that jazz, in the current balance skulks have to be inferior because after the skulk nerfs the marine team got some nerfs and then it went back and fourth in a complicated balance dance and aliens ultimatly got an econ buff for awhile before ending up here. Which is why they are. Skulk movement was nerfed alongside a prediction fix alongside a marine movement buff. Maybe im missing something, but I dont get how you could interpret those balance changes to have evened things out.
Quite frankly though NS2 has been through enough complete teardowns and rebuilds. Id really like if live was at least fairly similar to the definitive version. (stop changing everything)
SebMelbourne, AUJoin Date: 2013-04-01Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
@krOoze I'll try to find a better example for you or make a video on it myself, but ISE's video isn't a good example just because the marine in the video doesn't really have amazing movement, its just the skulks not landing their bites.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2015
I believe the issues new players have here are mainly due to the combination of three factors, when simultaneous occurring, lead to very frustrating experiences (and early quitters):
1. Jerky Marine jumping leg animation.
2. Low FPS on low end machines.
3. Skulk teeth view model, obscuring the vital part of the screen at the most crucial moment of the fight. (I've always thought they were implemented mainly to troll newbie skulks)
Additionally, the marine jump height (in proportion to player model size) is probably among the highest in recent fps games.
The second cannot be helped. But the other two could use some small improvements to help alleviate new player frustration.
Marine legs are weird. The other day in RR we were observing that a marine jumping directly forward seems to have their legs stick out to the side somewhat.
I might make a video on this at some point with @Jekt or someone if they are interested/have time. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding about what good movement is, and also what to do in situations where they think they are getting out-maneuvered.
Please make such a video. I think it would help improve this discussion. It also might teach veterans and newbies alike.
Comments
Bonus points if you can do a side by side slow mo comparison..
Would be nice to see a comparison to see the comparison from a Skulk's PoV at close range. I've been wondering if the speed reduction of 2 would make a difference.
that's not a backwards jump its a side jump. Moving backwards faster would mean you would be able to gain distance from a skulk while keeping it within your vision / within your crosshair. My understanding is that as it stands the current strategy of turn > ,jump > try to find your target again in mid air balances out nicely with skulk distance-closing techniques.
If you can come up with a better way to balance it out, by all means share it!
You've been here since January 2013 and have created 2 of your own jumping threads. You should know better by now and undoubtedly do. 0/10 troll.
BTW are there any good frame by frame first person vids(no spectator and no 24 fps youtube thing) of good players? Maybe add them to tutorial vids, if you think it's just a problem of lack of education, no?
EDIT: Nice, there actually is short clip explaining strafing ingame
youtu.be/OKfpQ8sqfN0 He goes on about side walking/strafing, and then kills gorge and two skulks by back jumping.
Quite frankly though NS2 has been through enough complete teardowns and rebuilds. Id really like if live was at least fairly similar to the definitive version. (stop changing everything)
1. Jerky Marine jumping leg animation.
2. Low FPS on low end machines.
3. Skulk teeth view model, obscuring the vital part of the screen at the most crucial moment of the fight. (I've always thought they were implemented mainly to troll newbie skulks)
Additionally, the marine jump height (in proportion to player model size) is probably among the highest in recent fps games.
The second cannot be helped. But the other two could use some small improvements to help alleviate new player frustration.
Please make such a video. I think it would help improve this discussion. It also might teach veterans and newbies alike.