And here we go again with you completely ignoring everything about my post but the word "Speargun".
Tell me how the Stasis rifle can act as a long range flare, or a way to track creatures, or a means of providing emergency power to a vehicle, or how it's able to kill a creature from a distance.
I'll just sit here and wait while you write up another "NO WE HAVE STASIS RIFLE STUPID GTFO" post without actually reading anything.
Are you just trolling at this point? As IronHorse pointed out I went through point by point and not only pointed out the flaws but showed how the proposed harpoon gun would be redundant. You are right that currently the stasis rifle can't charge a vehicle (which was NOT in that post you linked) but neither can a harpoon gun since that system isn't in the game either. That would be like saying a harpoon gun can kill a reaper but a stasis rifle can't; which is just as pointless since the harpoon gun isn't in the game at all while the stasis rifle is.
You are proposing that the harpoon gun can be put in do these things, and all those things are either being done or can be given as upgrades to the Stasis rifle which is already in the game. A proposition that I have shown several times now to be redundant to systems already present within the game, if not outright inferior to said system in parts.
There are good ideas in your post, it just they are all things that can just be given to the stasis rifle or given as workbench upgrades. Like I said the fact that bubbles don't glow feels like an oversight, which would make them very handy in dark caves for trying to bubble a predator inky blackness. Charging batteries could be a useful utility function as well. Good ideas, just not in consideration of a whole new weapon. A new weapon would have to cover things the stasis rifle can't or could never really be done without making a whole new weapon. That is why you have the propulsion gun; it can pick up and throw things which is a function that if given to the stasis rifle would have made it a whole new type of weapon at that point. The harpoon idea just overlaps to much with the stasis rifle.
And here we go again with you completely ignoring everything about my post but the word "Speargun".
Tell me how the Stasis rifle can act as a long range flare, or a way to track creatures, or a means of providing emergency power to a vehicle, or how it's able to kill a creature from a distance.
I'll just sit here and wait while you write up another "NO WE HAVE STASIS RIFLE STUPID GTFO" post without actually reading anything.
Are you just trolling at this point? As IronHorse pointed out I went through point by point and not only pointed out the flaws but showed how the proposed harpoon gun would be redundant. You are right that currently the stasis rifle can't charge a vehicle (which was NOT in that post you linked) but neither can a harpoon gun since that system isn't in the game either. That would be like saying a harpoon gun can kill a reaper but a stasis rifle can't; which is just as pointless since the harpoon gun isn't in the game at all while the stasis rifle is.
You are proposing that the harpoon gun can be put in do these things, and all those things are either being done or can be given as upgrades to the Stasis rifle which is already in the game. A proposition that I have shown several times now to be redundant to systems already present within the game, if not outright inferior to said system in parts.
There are good ideas in your post, it just they are all things that can just be given to the stasis rifle or given as workbench upgrades. Like I said the fact that bubbles don't glow feels like an oversight, which would make them very handy in dark caves for trying to bubble a predator inky blackness. Charging batteries could be a useful utility function as well. Good ideas, just not in consideration of a whole new weapon. A new weapon would have to cover things the stasis rifle can't or could never really be done without making a whole new weapon. That is why you have the propulsion gun; it can pick up and throw things which is a function that if given to the stasis rifle would have made it a whole new type of weapon at that point. The harpoon idea just overlaps to much with the stasis rifle.
as i have said. we need a "tech tree"
does it make sense to everyone that the first weapon you make is the stasis rifle?
it seems like making a projectile weapon that sidegrades into the stasis rifle makes more sense.
speargun
pros:
faster projectile velocity.
better effects. (last longer, more damage)
cons:
ammo is proprietary.
takes up more room.
ammo takes more room
requires a direct hit for effect to take place
upgrades.
adding more elastics: increases speed and range, but slows draw speed. stacks to five?
spear length: short spears have slower draw speed because of the slower draw length, long ones are faster but take longer to draw.
gas power speargun : requires air pressure to fire, giving greater range and speed, but requiring the user to return to the surface to refill the air like the scuba tanks.
compression tanks: as you dive deeper, the air in your tanks compresses, giving you more power per shot (adding to all the attributes of the spear) but sacrificing shot count do to less air volume being stored.
then you could unlock "stasis tech" spears the freeze on enemy for much. much. much longer than the stasis rifle.
your character could say something like " i wonder if i can spread the effects of the stasis field into a pulse?"
you then make the energy rifle.
pros.
takes batteries making the ammo universal.
make batteries take up less space. (battery backpack to store energy?)
effects are AOE making them hit multiple targets.
smaller in size
cons.
each target is affected less do to the effects being dispersed
slower projectile speed (more leading the target)
using the list of effects @04Leonhardt posted and the ones i came up with, this could be a neat way of doing a trade off, making you pick your gear for the role it best suits
First of all, the stasis rifle doesn't have infinite ammo. Yes, acid mushrooms grow out of the woodwork in the shallows, but copper is a bit harder to get. And when you consider the fact that the powerglide, flashlight, repulsion and/or propulsion cannon, and the welder all use batteries, that ammo of yours is gonna run out a bit faster than expected. Secondly, the stasis rifle may be a versatile tool, but it has it's limitations. For one, it takes a relatively long time for the rifle to charge up to maximum strength, so when you're in the midst of a fight with a pack of bonesharks/biters/whatever, you could be dead before you manage to freeze all of them at once. If you're in a panic and attempt to freeze each one separately with multiple shots, then the stasis field goes away on the previous victim of the rifle, allowing whatever is attacking you to get a good chunk out of your liver. Furthermore, the rifle has a limited range and the projectile is relatively slow, so freezing a creature from a safe distance isn't an option.
What we need is a tool specifically designed for fighting enemies, not one that just so happens to help with deterring them. Something that provides a permanent solution to a group of mobs, since a stasis rifle can only freeze so many things, and i don't like the prospect of having to use up a charge of my stasis rifle to stop a shocker from killing me whenever I exit or enter my base.
Drop the idea of a harpoon gun and maybe use something more futuristic like a plasma lance. It would shoot a beam of ionized gas at incredible speed towards wherever you point it, dealing damage to whatever it hits. The weapon could be used to take out mobs from a distance, so by the time they get within attacking range, the entire pack is reduced to one or one and a half creatures. Because of the high heat created by the lance, any small fish you kill with it would be cooked instantly. Of course leviathans would shrug off the attacks, but given enough time, you could kill a reaper in a quarter of the time it takes with just a freeze ray and a hunting knife. To tie in to a previous post I made, the lance could use a significant amount of charge in order to fire it, so it would prohibit wanton use of the weapon and give it some downsides as well.
As I said earlier, you can't study the insides of a creature that's still alive.
Also, @04Leonhardt , quit digging yourself a grave. Try coming up with some decent arguments instead of shitposting.
does it make sense to everyone that the first weapon you make is the stasis rifle?
it seems like making a projectile weapon that sidegrades into the stasis rifle makes more sense.
Well it makes no less sense that a few ingot of titanium and glass makes a giant fully functional submarine.
While I agree that the stasis rifle right off the bat is a bit strong...I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. This is a setting where a single fragment is enough to reverse engineer apparently a full working blueprint (I would like to see that system stretched out a bit too). Regardless the stasis rifle is a very versatile tool as well as a means of self protection. None of which is covered by the proposal of the Leon or in this one. While yes you can make the stasis rifle itself an upgrade, you also make it really the only good choice.
Like I have said, you have the choice of a gun that has limitations on ammo and one that does not, right there that significantly puts one above the other. Space is a constant constraint, and while I can't speak to everyone's preference; I know that I would much rather have a tool that allows me more space to make more efficient resource gathering trips then one that takes up space for ammo which I might not need or be appropriate for the job. Especially if it is depleting either my air or forcing trips to the surface to recharge it further for shooting spear at all. Why take a weapon that unreliable over one where the only concern is if you have enough charge and have the appropriate charging fins for infinite use?
That said, I would like to see more progression with the rifle itself to customize aspects. Such as the big charge bubble could be an upgrade, or it could deliver a mild shock to the target of a bubble to drive it off. Or both. The more I look and talk about the weapon the more apparent the vast amount of possibilities to upgrade it. Which could be fun in and of itself, and for me being able to take a simple stasis rifle and eventually have it do awesome things like phase targets or create defense perimeters could be a fun aspect. It could even be used as a storytelling or exploration reward for poking around every corner of Subnatica's world. Just to see what fun upgrade you can recover next.
But as to the subject at hand, there is and will always be fundamental problems with having both a spear-gun and stasis rifle. To have the former be put into the game and anything representing itself it would need several limitations (and severe ones at that), these same limitations are pretty much non-existent in the stasis rifle which is already in the game. Furthermore the spear-gun would overlap so many of the features of the stasis rifle, and would take further resource investment to use whereas the stasis rifle only takes a set amount of resources to make and use. Finally, as the devs have stated they want to DE-emphasize combat which means even if this were something introduced it probably would still take more trouble then it is worth to use it against any significant threat (I.E. expect even stalkers to take more then one spear to kill).
does it make sense to everyone that the first weapon you make is the stasis rifle?
it seems like making a projectile weapon that sidegrades into the stasis rifle makes more sense.
Well it makes no less sense that a few ingot of titanium and glass makes a giant fully functional submarine.
While I agree that the stasis rifle right off the bat is a bit strong...I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. This is a setting where a single fragment is enough to reverse engineer apparently a full working blueprint (I would like to see that system stretched out a bit too). Regardless the stasis rifle is a very versatile tool as well as a means of self protection. None of which is covered by the proposal of the Leon or in this one. While yes you can make the stasis rifle itself an upgrade, you also make it really the only good choice.
Like I have said, you have the choice of a gun that has limitations on ammo and one that does not, right there that significantly puts one above the other. Space is a constant constraint, and while I can't speak to everyone's preference; I know that I would much rather have a tool that allows me more space to make more efficient resource gathering trips then one that takes up space for ammo which I might not need or be appropriate for the job. Especially if it is depleting either my air or forcing trips to the surface to recharge it further for shooting spear at all. Why take a weapon that unreliable over one where the only concern is if you have enough charge and have the appropriate charging fins for infinite use?
That said, I would like to see more progression with the rifle itself to customize aspects. Such as the big charge bubble could be an upgrade, or it could deliver a mild shock to the target of a bubble to drive it off. Or both. The more I look and talk about the weapon the more apparent the vast amount of possibilities to upgrade it. Which could be fun in and of itself, and for me being able to take a simple stasis rifle and eventually have it do awesome things like phase targets or create defense perimeters could be a fun aspect. It could even be used as a storytelling or exploration reward for poking around every corner of Subnatica's world. Just to see what fun upgrade you can recover next.
But as to the subject at hand, there is and will always be fundamental problems with having both a spear-gun and stasis rifle. To have the former be put into the game and anything representing itself it would need several limitations (and severe ones at that), these same limitations are pretty much non-existent in the stasis rifle which is already in the game. Furthermore the spear-gun would overlap so many of the features of the stasis rifle, and would take further resource investment to use whereas the stasis rifle only takes a set amount of resources to make and use. Finally, as the devs have stated they want to DE-emphasize combat which means even if this were something introduced it probably would still take more trouble then it is worth to use it against any significant threat (I.E. expect even stalkers to take more then one spear to kill).
are you...serious. you see no benefit to having two weapons that fit niche rolls the complement eachother.
if you are talking about the semantics of balance i'm sure we could figure something better out.
but you are just not liking having a glass cannon? do you not understand the concept of game ballance??
do you not understand why it would be a neat trade off to get much more power with a cost then infinite weak power
After some thought i came to the following conclusions:
1. Rename the Stasis Rifle to "Stasis Gun", because its not a rifle by any definition. However it does have some similarities with a hot-glue/caulking gun.
2. Spearguns IMHO are tools for fishing and already outclassed by the gravity gun which can snatch fish up at range. A laser weapon would be cool though.
And I mentioned this earlier, but its worth repeating that the SeaMoth is an excellent weapon. It can literately road-kill sharks/fish (anything smaller then a reaper) and its fun too because they try to run away. It's so efficient i don't even bother with the tedious task of stasissing+knifing anything (smaller then a reaper) anymore. Getting tired of that stasis-effect/sound as well.
3. In the near future there will be hostile life bigger and likely meaner (if that's possible) then reapers. I imagine that's when we will get a proper armament/defense-systems for protecting bases and the cyclops. Electrified bases sound cool (reminds me of Sphere), but the same for the cyclops seems too 20k leagues cliche, and would be too little to late if the hostiles are that big. We would need a cyclops torpedo (at the minimum), or laser turrets. The exosuit will likely get a minigun/rail-gun arm (like in NS2) to deal with lava zone enemies. But its gonna probably be months before we need/get any of these toys. Maybe by then the game will become gradually more darker (which it will need to be if multiplayer becomes a thing, otherwise imagine how boring PVP will be with stasis rifle + knife... If not PVP then only other design choice is COOP vs dangerous spawning sea creatures, like every other crafting openworld multiplayer game).
You are proposing that the harpoon gun can be put in do these things, and all those things are either being done or can be given as upgrades to the Stasis rifle which is already in the game.
For Example, combining a Wiring Kit with two Spears at the Workstation makes two "Tracking Spears" which emit a signal similar to a beacon, that does no damage, but can be attached to creatures to keep track of them. Never let that Reaper surprise you again.
Combining the Speargun with a Dive Reel makes a "Grappling Hook", which can be used to move around quickly by anchoring to nearby terrain, attach to large creatures to pull the player along, or capture smaller fish from a distance.
Combine a spear with 3x Creepvine pieces to make a "Net Bolt", which ensnares Rabbitray to Gasopod-sized creatures for capture and study.
Combine a Spear with a Flare to make a Flare Spear. You get the idea.
These are just a few applications I came up with on the spot.
Stasis Rifle does none of this. It would make 0 sense for the Stasis Rifle to be upgraded to shoot flares, or a net, or to act as a grappling hook or a tazer.
The Propulsion Cannon upgrade makes sense, in that it's just setting it to "Wumbo" and removing the requirement for it be near something in order to fire.
Making the Stasis Rifle behave like a grappling hook would be silly. As would making it shoot a permanent, movable net that would ensnare a single creature. As would making it into a lightning gun to recharge vehicles remotely, because then it'd be a laser rifle, and even more people would complain.
Why are you so against adding something new and exciting to the game?
Is it because of its basic function as a hunting tool? Please tell me you're not going this much out of your way just to keep pointy sticks out of the game.
Why are you so against adding something new and exciting to the game?
Is it because of its basic function as a hunting tool? Please tell me you're not going this much out of your way just to keep pointy sticks out of the game.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
Yes I agree that having the stasis rifle shoot a grappling hook would be silly....so is a harpoon gun. If for no other reason then the devs have said they want to make a grapple tool (or at least thinking about it). However that alone does not necessitate a harpoon gun, and frankly the utility of such a function would be limited.
Nothing (practical) that you have proposed for the harpoon gun can not be used to upgrade the stasis rifle. Again it's a high tech harpoon gun with little inventory cost, a set resource cost, potentially infinite ammo, has a lot of utility, and can be used for a variety of defensive maneuvers on land or in sea. Something that your harpoon gun fails to measure up to with a slower fire speed, MUCH larger inventory cost, continuous resource drain, limited ammo, and very limited utility. Because even if you have all the different spears in the world, it wouldn't matter if you can only take two or thee spears with you practically. Even if you DO have the spear you need for the task at hand...what if you miss?
are you...serious. you see no benefit to having two weapons that fit niche rolls the complement eachother.
if you are talking about the semantics of balance i'm sure we could figure something better out.
but you are just not liking having a glass cannon? do you not understand the concept of game ballance??
do you not understand why it would be a neat trade off to get much more power with a cost then infinite weak power
ARE YOU JUST GOING TO IGNORE EVERYTHING THERE.
*gets up from computer*
*distant* GOD DAMN IT GUYS. COME ON.
Complimenting each other would be what the stasis rifle does with the propulsion gun. Their uses overlap very little and in fact cover what the other cannot do, though i'll usually stick with the stasis rifle since to me it has more in general use then the propulsion gun. But the harpoon gun and the stasis rifle in yours and Leon's proposed ideas just overlap far to much. To the point you have to create more and more crazy ammo types to justify it being there. But if you take the stock rifle (with no charge-up or charge fins) and stock harpoon gun...the stasis rifle still wins and by a large amount.
It is really and plainly that simple, and nothing about balance. You have a spear that can be thrown...how many uses will that give you? Now compare that to a projectile that freezes anything it touches which includes sinking ships. To get the harpoon gun on the same level as the stasis rifle you have to put in all this extra stuff JUST to get it to have the same basic utility as a stock stasis rifle. At which point it just makes more sense to not put the harpoon gun in and take that crazy stuff and apply what you can to the stasis rifle or other things in game already.
Please,I have been watching this since page 3 and you seem to be the one who is purposely putting words into other people's mouths.Terra blade presented a well written comment politely about how a harpoon gun would not benefit you at all and you respond rudely by straw-manning Terra blade and ignoring his points.
You state that everyone sees the word "harpoon gun" and immediately argues with you.Seeing the above posts,you have just been disregarding posts and accusing them of something unreasonably.
Maybe,instead of disregarding everyone and then proceeding to flame everyone,you can read the arguments presented.
I know you'll respond to this by either ignoring it or giving 4 sentences of straw-manning.
Why are you so against adding something new and exciting to the game?
Is it because of its basic function as a hunting tool? Please tell me you're not going this much out of your way just to keep pointy sticks out of the game.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
So because the stasis rifle ball glows, we might as well remove flares and the flashlight right? Because it overlaps with the Stasis Rifle we can't have things that do anything similar, by your logic. Also make it so the Propulsion Cannon can't hold creatures because that's what the Stasis Rifle does!
So anyone suggesting a weapon is wrong, but in this scenario where making the Stasis Rifle into a lightning gun specifically to shut down my suggestion, it's totally ok?
Because the net would be permanent (Allowing you to manually move larger creatures around with the Propulsion Cannon, and would stay on them until you cut it off with the knife), and targeted on one creature. But, of course, that's literally what the Stasis Rifle does, right?
@DefectivePeeper If you're just gonna write a paragraph on why you're upset with me without actually contributing to the discussion, send it to me in a PM and leave the personal attacks out of the public eye.
04LeonhardtI came here to laugh at youJoin Date: 2015-08-01Member: 206618Members
Also, on an unrelated note, how about a Shrink Ray?
Gonna go Jimmy Neutron on their asses
It could also grow things too, but that's already kind of done with the Reefback DNA.
The threat level would scale accordingly.
So you take that big scary reaper and turn him into an angry little finger biter
Or make a Stalker into a reaper sized colossus for whatever reason.
Would be a way to get Reapers in your fish tank at home with some sci-fi mumbo jumbo about the aquarium keeping the shrink ray science from wearing off.
Could also add in different mechanics, like if you shrink down a Bone Shark, nearby Sand Sharks would try to eat it. Or if you make a Biterfish big enough it would try to go around munching on other critters. So you could set up like giant sea monster fights.
Use a DNA transfuser to make Reaper Leviathans as placid as Rabbitrays. Turn Biter Fish into high speed, proximity-fused concussion torpedoes with Crash DNA.
Use a DNA transfuser to make Reaper Leviathans as placid as Rabbitrays. Turn Biter Fish into high speed, proximity-fused concussion torpedoes with Crash DNA.
Science has the answer.
You're simply not asking the right questions.
We can grow things with the DNA transfuser.
I hope we can shrink things too.
Maybe use the propulsion gun to shoot those DNA syringes at things
I don't really have objections against tech that seems reasonably advanced to match the rest.
Harpoon guns just seem very primitive compared to the rest. Something to launch DNA transfusion darts is somewhere in between, but works in my head since it fills a distinct purpose.
Between Propulsion Gun, Repulsion Gun, and Stasis Rifle which you can develop fairly easily and quickly now, I've never understood the need for harpoon launchers because they do what the harpoons can, but better. You can Stasis-shot something and then knife it, which would damage less tissue if you need to get a creature largely intact for studies. To instantly kill things, a Propulsion Gun is more effective since you can pull and then launch them into solid matter to crush them to death, with much less user accuracy needed.
I can actually understand people more who want a tactical torpedo or something that will blast away large hostile creatures like Reapers. That would at least fit the rest of the tech in terms of how advanced it is. The only reason not to use it would be something implied by the setting, like a Star Trek style Prime Directive that forbids Alterra from including that sort of weaponry in their fabricator blueprint tech trees.
tyler111762Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Join Date: 2015-05-17Member: 204558Members
[/quote] But the harpoon gun and the stasis rifle in yours and Leon's proposed ideas just overlap far to much. To the point you have to create more and more crazy ammo types to justify it being there. But if you take the stock rifle (with no charge-up or charge fins) and stock harpoon gun...the stasis rifle still wins and by a large amount.
It is really and plainly that simple, and nothing about balance. You have a spear that can be thrown...how many uses will that give you? Now compare that to a projectile that freezes anything it touches which includes sinking ships. To get the harpoon gun on the same level as the stasis rifle you have to put in all this extra stuff JUST to get it to have the same basic utility as a stock stasis rifle. At which point it just makes more sense to not put the harpoon gun in and take that crazy stuff and apply what you can to the stasis rifle or other things in game already.[/quote]
terra. THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.
OF COURSE A BASE STASIS RIFLE IS BETTER THAN A BASE SPEAR GUN.
THAT'S LIKE SAYING AN UNENCHANTED DIAMOND PICKAXE IS BETTER THAN A STONE ONE (minecraft)
you get the spear gun earlier into the game then you get the stasis rifle.
the difference is, when you upgrade the spear gun, it goe into a different role.
AOE spread low effectiveness compared to single point super effectiveness.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
Yes I agree that having the stasis rifle shoot a grappling hook would be silly....so is a harpoon gun. If for no other reason then the devs have said they want to make a grapple tool (or at least thinking about it). However that alone does not necessitate a harpoon gun, and frankly the utility of such a function would be limited.
Nothing (practical) that you have proposed for the harpoon gun can not be used to upgrade the stasis rifle. Again it's a high tech harpoon gun with little inventory cost, a set resource cost, potentially infinite ammo, has a lot of utility, and can be used for a variety of defensive maneuvers on land or in sea.
But look, it's a, get this, STASIS rifle, not a lightning rifle or a disco rifle. It should do what it says on the tin, put things in stasis, adding all these different functions to it would ruin game balance and make many different items obsolete. We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks. If I go out of my base I should think to myself, "What items should I bring with me on my journey today? Do I want to go collecting metal and other resources, or do I want to go exploring and find new areas, or do I want to go hunting and get more food and possibly materials for other things?" Adding in a jack of all trades item would completely ruin the whole mechanic of having limited inventory space, since you'd only require one item to fit all your needs. It's bad design.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
Yes I agree that having the stasis rifle shoot a grappling hook would be silly....so is a harpoon gun. If for no other reason then the devs have said they want to make a grapple tool (or at least thinking about it). However that alone does not necessitate a harpoon gun, and frankly the utility of such a function would be limited.
Nothing (practical) that you have proposed for the harpoon gun can not be used to upgrade the stasis rifle. Again it's a high tech harpoon gun with little inventory cost, a set resource cost, potentially infinite ammo, has a lot of utility, and can be used for a variety of defensive maneuvers on land or in sea.
But look, it's a, get this, STASIS rifle, not a lightning rifle or a disco rifle. It should do what it says on the tin, put things in stasis, adding all these different functions to it would ruin game balance and make many different items obsolete. We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks. If I go out of my base I should think to myself, "What items should I bring with me on my journey today? Do I want to go collecting metal and other resources, or do I want to go exploring and find new areas, or do I want to go hunting and get more food and possibly materials for other things?" Adding in a jack of all trades item would completely ruin the whole mechanic of having limited inventory space, since you'd only require one item to fit all your needs. It's bad design.
Why are you so against adding something new and exciting to the game?
Is it because of its basic function as a hunting tool? Please tell me you're not going this much out of your way just to keep pointy sticks out of the game.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
So because the stasis rifle ball glows, we might as well remove flares and the flashlight right? Because it overlaps with the Stasis Rifle we can't have things that do anything similar, by your logic. Also make it so the Propulsion Cannon can't hold creatures because that's what the Stasis Rifle does!
So anyone suggesting a weapon is wrong, but in this scenario where making the Stasis Rifle into a lightning gun specifically to shut down my suggestion, it's totally ok?
Because the net would be permanent (Allowing you to manually move larger creatures around with the Propulsion Cannon, and would stay on them until you cut it off with the knife), and targeted on one creature. But, of course, that's literally what the Stasis Rifle does, right?
@DefectivePeeper If you're just gonna write a paragraph on why you're upset with me without actually contributing to the discussion, send it to me in a PM and leave the personal attacks out of the public eye.
Leonhardt please.You contributed nothing to the arguments at the start by just straw manning everyone you disagree with.
This was not a personal attack,I was pointing out that you were not properly answering Terrablade's posts and you were disregarding many well thought out posts by straw manning them.Maybe,instead of being a hypocrite,you read what everyone types in detail then you respond.
It was literally a personal attack.
An insult to try to discredit or discourage my argument.
Purely inflammatory.
Sure, I may have an abrasive posting style but at least I'm on topic.
I said before, if you want to badmouth users without actually mentioning the topic at hand, at least have the decency to send it to me in a PM.
Otherwise, leave me the hell alone. You have 3 posts and two of them are you attacking me, not even my argument or my ideas, without even mentioning the things I'm talking about.
We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks.
Could not agree more. I want more things that do less, not fewer things that do more.
Variety is good in sandbox style games. Gives the player more options and more ways to play.
My suggestion for a multi-torpedo launcher kinda does this, but is mostly a different way of using current tools (Launching a Chum Torpedo > Releasing a Peeper to try to distract a Bone Shark), or does similar things in a different way (Flash Torpedo greatly brightens an area for a few seconds and blinds Bone Sharks to make them flee > Dropping a flare to create a tiny light source or whacking the Bone Shark with your knife until it runs away)
The discussion in this topic is about lethal, or non-lethal weaponry right? Because it seems to have derailed a little.
This topic peaked my interest because the discussion seems to go beyond this game into real life even.
My general opinion on lethal weapons: Violence = Stupid. Or in other words, the less intelligent someone is, the more likely he is to employ violence. Violence is used when reason fails. I am not saying that violence is always a bad thing, one must be allowed to defend oneself. But there's always stupid involved when it comes to violence. And it's always stupid who starts using violence. So yes... at times using violence is inescapable, because stupid has chosen to use it and we have our hand being forced.
However, the above applies to humans. Not animals.
Animals posess no reason, or logic or empathy. Quoting from the classic movie Jaws: "they swim, they eat and they make little baby sharks" They are not good, or evil.. because they can't distinguish one from the other. Taking being attacked by a predator personal is a really, really dumb response, because the animal does not think. It just does.
We the players, get dropped into this vast alien world, with an established eco system. We have technology. We are superiour in every way... apart from being physically weaker than most organisms. That is why we encase ourselves in titantium bases, subs and need tools to ward off the wild life. We have a choice. We kill because we choose to kill. We can be held accountable for what we do, because we can think.
Finding yourself in a situation where you get eaten shows poor judgement.. and well... stupidity... because you had all the tools available to prevent you from being in that situation.
I am wondering what drives people to want to kill things. Like a cave man clubbing bugs. Or a child pulling out the legs out of spiders. I was hoping that in the future, human kind would have evolved beyond that... and the way the game is presenting it, it seems human kind has in fact, evolved an attitude that chooses co-existance.
Then again, another thing that makes this game so good is the liberty you have. So... I suppose if people want to slaughter everything in their path.. that option should be open to them...... I guess there's no escaping throwing them a bone.. in the form of giving them something really violent.... like changing the Stasis Rifle in a Borg Cutting Beam that cuts things clean in half! BZZZZZZZZ. All must die, die, die!!
Why are you so against adding something new and exciting to the game?
Is it because of its basic function as a hunting tool? Please tell me you're not going this much out of your way just to keep pointy sticks out of the game.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
So because the stasis rifle ball glows, we might as well remove flares and the flashlight right? Because it overlaps with the Stasis Rifle we can't have things that do anything similar, by your logic. Also make it so the Propulsion Cannon can't hold creatures because that's what the Stasis Rifle does!
So anyone suggesting a weapon is wrong, but in this scenario where making the Stasis Rifle into a lightning gun specifically to shut down my suggestion, it's totally ok?
Because the net would be permanent (Allowing you to manually move larger creatures around with the Propulsion Cannon, and would stay on them until you cut it off with the knife), and targeted on one creature. But, of course, that's literally what the Stasis Rifle does, right?
@DefectivePeeper If you're just gonna write a paragraph on why you're upset with me without actually contributing to the discussion, send it to me in a PM and leave the personal attacks out of the public eye.
I didn't say that you can't have similar function, I said that after a certain point the ideas just overlap to much. You are proposing a gun that would serve many of the functions that the stasis rifle already serves, but does it in a more inefficient manner and not nearly as well. Not to mention some of the ideas, like the grapple, would just not work nearly as well as you think it would. You are coming up with all these ideas to justify a weapon that is simply inferior to the model already present in the game. As soon as the stasis rifle were to get any kind of, or similar upgrades, the harpoon gun would be left in the dust.
As for flares...no I don't use them since I have a flashlight. By the time I throw a flare I could have use the flashlight to track my target, switch to the stasis rifle, and then pop a bubble. While I do feel aesthetically the stasis rifle bubbles should produce light, I don't recall every saying they should replace flares. But your own idea of a flare harpoon still means you have to shoot, reload and select the ammo you want to use, and then fire. It wouldn't be any more efficient, in fact I believe it would be very much less so.
I also didn't suggest that the stasis rifle should be a lightning gun to shoot down your suggestion. I stated that it would be more likely and simple to have it as an upgrade option for the stasis rifle. At the end of the day you are asking for something quite clearly against the stated design philosophy. The stasis rifle is already their compromise to put a harpoon gun into the game without going against their stated philosophy. If you want them to break their design philosophy, well if it were me I would want a very well though out reason. Unfortunately you must apparently agree since the only response thus far has been to try to discredit my character or make strawman attacks, but never actually addressing any thing I write that point out critical flaws with your idea.
As Ironhorse said, you are better then this. You have decent ideas, just not ones that make a solid case for the existence of a harpoon gun.
@TerraBlade
First of all, the stasis rifle doesn't have infinite ammo. Yes, acid mushrooms grow out of the woodwork in the shallows, but copper is a bit harder to get. And when you consider the fact that the powerglide, flashlight, repulsion and/or propulsion cannon, and the welder all use batteries, that ammo of yours is gonna run out a bit faster than expected. Secondly, the stasis rifle may be a versatile tool, but it has it's limitations. For one, it takes a relatively long time for the rifle to charge up to maximum strength, so when you're in the midst of a fight with a pack of bonesharks/biters/whatever, you could be dead before you manage to freeze all of them at once. If you're in a panic and attempt to freeze each one separately with multiple shots, then the stasis field goes away on the previous victim of the rifle, allowing whatever is attacking you to get a good chunk out of your liver. Furthermore, the rifle has a limited range and the projectile is relatively slow, so freezing a creature from a safe distance isn't an option.
Because it isn't new, it isn't very exciting, and for the umpteenth time it is redundent. So it would make zero sense to make the stasis rifle shoot out flare? Yes, because the bubbles should be glowing which depending on the intensity would negate the need for a flare. But I fail to see how the leap of 'energy ball' can't be upgraded to work as taser. As for the 'shooting a net' comment...do you even use the stasis rifle? You do realize what the stasis rifle does, because I don't see how shooting a net is any way superior to the function the stasis rifle provides.
Yes I agree that having the stasis rifle shoot a grappling hook would be silly....so is a harpoon gun. If for no other reason then the devs have said they want to make a grapple tool (or at least thinking about it). However that alone does not necessitate a harpoon gun, and frankly the utility of such a function would be limited.
Nothing (practical) that you have proposed for the harpoon gun can not be used to upgrade the stasis rifle. Again it's a high tech harpoon gun with little inventory cost, a set resource cost, potentially infinite ammo, has a lot of utility, and can be used for a variety of defensive maneuvers on land or in sea.
But look, it's a, get this, STASIS rifle, not a lightning rifle or a disco rifle. It should do what it says on the tin, put things in stasis, adding all these different functions to it would ruin game balance and make many different items obsolete. We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks. If I go out of my base I should think to myself, "What items should I bring with me on my journey today? Do I want to go collecting metal and other resources, or do I want to go exploring and find new areas, or do I want to go hunting and get more food and possibly materials for other things?" Adding in a jack of all trades item would completely ruin the whole mechanic of having limited inventory space, since you'd only require one item to fit all your needs. It's bad design.
First off I never used the term 'lightning gun', I said it could be upgraded to deliver a shock that when the bubble ends makes the target run away. Still puts the target in stasis, it just then makes threats run away rather then continue to attack you. Second, I said that yes these could be upgrades, and I don't recall saying it would be a swiss army weapon (though it kinda already is) but that the stasis rifle could have it's upgrades gotten by exploration.
I'm very much in the camp of wanting options and having to prepare for a mission. Personally I thing the charge up for the bigger bubbles should be it's own upgrade/version of the stasis rifle. The shock version could be another type, with many other to discover/build for your various needs and loadout types.
EDIT: Missed the first post, so now i'll address it as well. I've tried hard to not say that the stasis rifle outright has infinite ammo, but that it COULD have infinite ammo. With charge fins the only time I put a dent into the pool has been when I use charge shots. In fact the charge fins I find negate the need for batteries for just about anything, with only weilders needing them if you have to do a series of repairs back to back (I suppose the seaglide, but anymore I find it's a tool that largely doesn't get used as much).As for multiple enemies, that is where you have to think a little creatively. Yes you can't zap them all individually, but throw a big bubble and you can catch multiple at once, or shoot a nearby wall/floor/ceiling and you have a safe haven to swim into as they all catch themselves in the relatively long lasting bubble. Generally this is how I deal with biters if I don't immedietly spot them, or cave spiders when I want to get past them without being bit.
While I love the idea for the lance...not in this game (and I love lances in general as weapons, but I blame Dark souls for that). The problem being is that the devs have flat out said they don't want weapons, which means unless you can come up with some nifty utility uses chances are it is a moot argument right out of the gate. That is pretty much my major opposition to the harpoon gun as well, it's flat out a weapon and the devs already gave us a very cool and versatile compromise in the form of the stasis rifle. They seem to be okay with defense mechanism like the seamoth active defense, or something that has a lot of utility use like the knife, but not with an outright weapon.
Personally I would rather be able to slot in mods like we do with the seamoth into other pieces of gear like the seaglide and stasis rifle itself. A faster charge module, taser module, one that might even enhance the glow of bubbles (yeah it really bugs me they don't glow) to maybe the point of a flare but at greater power usage. Barring that the stasis rifle leaves a lot of room for upgrades and different versions.
OF COURSE A BASE STASIS RIFLE IS BETTER THAN A BASE SPEAR GUN.
THAT'S LIKE SAYING AN UNENCHANTED DIAMOND PICKAXE IS BETTER THAN A STONE ONE (minecraft)
you get the spear gun earlier into the game then you get the stasis rifle.
the difference is, when you upgrade the spear gun, it goe into a different role.
AOE spread low effectiveness compared to single point super effectiveness.
No, you are missing the point. They are both the same tool just with different rarities and speed of use. However the speargun vs stasis rifle issue is not the same thing, and in fact would be akin to the powerglide vs seamoth. Once you have the seamoth, especially with a moonpool, how often do you use the seaglide? The seamoth can have virtually unlimited power, allows you to regenerate your oxygen, allows mulitiple upgrades, protects you from danger, and ect. The seaglide doesn't do any of that, and while it does have uses and applications later perhaps, these are rare and few between. To the point that if the seaglide WASN'T already in the game I would have made similar arguments that is almost completly useless. Indeed, most survival games anymore I don't bother building one, as I rarely ever find myself in need for something that can't be upgraded.
Now yes there will be upgrades for the seaglide eventually. But the standing argument still applies. You need a lot of upgrades or really cool/unique ones to make the seaglide a useful tool to have in conjunction with the seamoth/cyclops. The latter fitting their own roles and having uses that they can't fulfill on their own that is unique and sets them apart (like the stasis vs propulsion guns).
The problem though is the category of the tools. The seaglide and seamoth are unquestionably NOT weapons (ramming aside) but the harpoon gun is flat out a weapon and even if you add utility ammo at it's core it's still a LETHAL weapon. Something the devs have been pretty adamant on NOT putting in the game. The stasis rifle has always been NON-lethal, and adding utility won't really change that, or if it does it's pretty much easy to scale back and/or remove the lethal elements without breaking the weapon. Something you just can't do with a harpoon gun as many have wanted it. Which is actually why I think the devs are ok with torpedoes, as you can (and they did) make non-lethal variants along with potentially a lot of utility uses.
The problem being is that the devs have flat out said they don't want weapons, which means unless you can come up with some nifty utility uses chances are it is a moot argument right out of the gate.
Well that's just silly. In a game where so many things are out to kill you, weapons should be a must have, especially if we do end up finding sentient life deep underwater. I do like the idea of helplessness, especially against massive behemoths of the deep, but it ends up getting old real fast in games like Subnautica. I'd rather be able to do something about the monsters waiting outside my base for a snack rather than having to leave them there because I have almost no choice. While the repulsion cannon and stasis rifle work well deterring predators, they don't work well in combating them. If/When higher lifeforms are introduced into the game, no weapons means natural selection will get the better of you.
The problem being is that the devs have flat out said they don't want weapons, which means unless you can come up with some nifty utility uses chances are it is a moot argument right out of the gate.
Well that's just silly. In a game where so many things are out to kill you, weapons should be a must have, especially if we do end up finding sentient life deep underwater. I do like the idea of helplessness, especially against massive behemoths of the deep, but it ends up getting old real fast in games like Subnautica. I'd rather be able to do something about the monsters waiting outside my base for a snack rather than having to leave them there because I have almost no choice. While the repulsion cannon and stasis rifle work well deterring predators, they don't work well in combating them. If/When higher lifeforms are introduced into the game, no weapons means natural selection will get the better of you.
Not necissarily, that would be like in other games where you need to think outside the box in how to overcome the obstacle. I can think of many games where a seemingly insurmountable problem such as an enemy immune to our weapons actually had alternative ways to kill the beast. Could be as simple as knocking the enemy out long enough to mess with it's DNA or to introduce a custom virus. That still doesn't necessitate more weapons, just more creative solutions and opportunities to use them.
Remember, the devs have only said that they don't want to introduce weapons and promote violence as the easiest solution. Not that there won't be ways to use tools to eliminate a threat permanently. Whether that means making a threat docile or outright killing it is a matter of debate however.
It was literally a personal attack.
An insult to try to discredit or discourage my argument.
Purely inflammatory.
Sure, I may have an abrasive posting style but at least I'm on topic.
I said before, if you want to badmouth users without actually mentioning the topic at hand, at least have the decency to send it to me in a PM.
Otherwise, leave me the hell alone. You have 3 posts and two of them are you attacking me, not even my argument or my ideas, without even mentioning the things I'm talking about.
We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks.
Could not agree more. I want more things that do less, not fewer things that do more.
Variety is good in sandbox style games. Gives the player more options and more ways to play.
My suggestion for a multi-torpedo launcher kinda does this, but is mostly a different way of using current tools (Launching a Chum Torpedo > Releasing a Peeper to try to distract a Bone Shark), or does similar things in a different way (Flash Torpedo greatly brightens an area for a few seconds and blinds Bone Sharks to make them flee > Dropping a flare to create a tiny light source or whacking the Bone Shark with your knife until it runs away)
Maybe,read the whole comment and you will see why it's not a personal attack?
You literally quoted a single sentence and just said that it was a personal attack.
Please read the whole comment before you respond.What I was doing was pointing out you were vying childishly and being a hypocrite,I was not personally attacking you.
A personal attack is when someone goes after you in the sense that you present an idea or argument,someone ignores that and says something like
"Lol why should I respond you're a faggot"
What I did was polite and involved no vulgar words,and was in no way a personal attack.What I said was along the lines of
"You have been constantly straw-manning Terra and ignoring his arguments"
But you probably read it as
"You faggot stop putting words in other people mouths.Go suck a dick your mom works as a stripper lololololfaggot
Again,now you are arguing properly but just to clarify,I was not personally attacking you.I was attackin the way you argue.
04LeonhardtI came here to laugh at youJoin Date: 2015-08-01Member: 206618Members
@DefectivePeeper Dude, I have asked you three times now to send your insults to me in a PM, and keep it out of this thread, since it's a wall of text that has literally nothing to do with the discussion at hand. This is the last time I'm going to say this. Get off my ass.
inb4 another wall of text attacking me that has nothing to do with the discussion.
Not necissarily, that would be like in other games where you need to think outside the box in how to overcome the obstacle. I can think of many games where a seemingly insurmountable problem such as an enemy immune to our weapons actually had alternative ways to kill the beast. Could be as simple as knocking the enemy out long enough to mess with it's DNA or to introduce a custom virus. That still doesn't necessitate more weapons, just more creative solutions and opportunities to use them.
More ways to eliminate, or rather, neutralize threats is the goal here.
Currently we have two primary tools that can do a specific set of things.
Once the DNA transfuser is in and we can inject some Friendship into stalkers and bone sharks to get them to bugger off, we'll be up to 3.
I still like the idea of a flash based grenade/torpedo to scare off bone sharks and creatures sensitive to light.
Using Peepers as part of a crafting recipe for a chum grenade/torpedo that would attract predators to an area and get them to fight each other over the meal wouldn't be too "violent" would it?
Had an idea for Mjolnir Mines that would basically be the Seamoth's Lightning Bomb in a round metal floating ball. Drop em and they float in place like a Beacon, and explode with energy if a big enough critter gets too close, potentially scaring them off or frying them. For base defense. Of course you count tune detection range and power output to your liking. Wouldn't work on Shockers, though. Hell the critters might even be attracted to em.
The Dimension Tide would be a Seabase or Cyclops mounted Wormhole Generator Cannon that would punch a hole in reality to suck a fish through, "harmlessly" teleporting them to another part of the ocean (I.e. out of the game). Of course, a strong swimmer like a Reaper Leviathan might be able to escape the suction of the warp, unless it was a direct hit.
soo.. im kinda lazy to read most of this but i think i get the reasoning on both sides, and all im just gonna say is the harpoon gun and the spear gun is only supposed to make the animal immobile, and u guys are just arguing about lethal weapons and tech trees full of upgrades, so how bout we just make the plasma cutter (not implemented yet) to be our only actual weapon because its only for exploring the aurora and i want more uses for it (and dead space comes up in my mind when i hear the name).
@DefectivePeeper Dude, I have asked you three times now to send your insults to me in a PM,
Moderator here...
He has not been insulting you, as he clearly explained yet again - he is informing you that your posting style (which you call abrasive) has been largely non productive and non conducive to a discussion, much like I have said before.
Informing you that the way you discuss and reply is not productive to a discussion does not equate to an insult.
That being said, I'm glad to see the better quality posts lately.
Comments
Are you just trolling at this point? As IronHorse pointed out I went through point by point and not only pointed out the flaws but showed how the proposed harpoon gun would be redundant. You are right that currently the stasis rifle can't charge a vehicle (which was NOT in that post you linked) but neither can a harpoon gun since that system isn't in the game either. That would be like saying a harpoon gun can kill a reaper but a stasis rifle can't; which is just as pointless since the harpoon gun isn't in the game at all while the stasis rifle is.
You are proposing that the harpoon gun can be put in do these things, and all those things are either being done or can be given as upgrades to the Stasis rifle which is already in the game. A proposition that I have shown several times now to be redundant to systems already present within the game, if not outright inferior to said system in parts.
There are good ideas in your post, it just they are all things that can just be given to the stasis rifle or given as workbench upgrades. Like I said the fact that bubbles don't glow feels like an oversight, which would make them very handy in dark caves for trying to bubble a predator inky blackness. Charging batteries could be a useful utility function as well. Good ideas, just not in consideration of a whole new weapon. A new weapon would have to cover things the stasis rifle can't or could never really be done without making a whole new weapon. That is why you have the propulsion gun; it can pick up and throw things which is a function that if given to the stasis rifle would have made it a whole new type of weapon at that point. The harpoon idea just overlaps to much with the stasis rifle.
as i have said. we need a "tech tree"
does it make sense to everyone that the first weapon you make is the stasis rifle?
it seems like making a projectile weapon that sidegrades into the stasis rifle makes more sense.
speargun
pros:
faster projectile velocity.
better effects. (last longer, more damage)
cons:
ammo is proprietary.
takes up more room.
ammo takes more room
requires a direct hit for effect to take place
upgrades.
adding more elastics: increases speed and range, but slows draw speed. stacks to five?
spear length: short spears have slower draw speed because of the slower draw length, long ones are faster but take longer to draw.
gas power speargun : requires air pressure to fire, giving greater range and speed, but requiring the user to return to the surface to refill the air like the scuba tanks.
compression tanks: as you dive deeper, the air in your tanks compresses, giving you more power per shot (adding to all the attributes of the spear) but sacrificing shot count do to less air volume being stored.
then you could unlock "stasis tech" spears the freeze on enemy for much. much. much longer than the stasis rifle.
your character could say something like " i wonder if i can spread the effects of the stasis field into a pulse?"
you then make the energy rifle.
pros.
takes batteries making the ammo universal.
make batteries take up less space. (battery backpack to store energy?)
effects are AOE making them hit multiple targets.
smaller in size
cons.
each target is affected less do to the effects being dispersed
slower projectile speed (more leading the target)
using the list of effects @04Leonhardt posted and the ones i came up with, this could be a neat way of doing a trade off, making you pick your gear for the role it best suits
First of all, the stasis rifle doesn't have infinite ammo. Yes, acid mushrooms grow out of the woodwork in the shallows, but copper is a bit harder to get. And when you consider the fact that the powerglide, flashlight, repulsion and/or propulsion cannon, and the welder all use batteries, that ammo of yours is gonna run out a bit faster than expected. Secondly, the stasis rifle may be a versatile tool, but it has it's limitations. For one, it takes a relatively long time for the rifle to charge up to maximum strength, so when you're in the midst of a fight with a pack of bonesharks/biters/whatever, you could be dead before you manage to freeze all of them at once. If you're in a panic and attempt to freeze each one separately with multiple shots, then the stasis field goes away on the previous victim of the rifle, allowing whatever is attacking you to get a good chunk out of your liver. Furthermore, the rifle has a limited range and the projectile is relatively slow, so freezing a creature from a safe distance isn't an option.
What we need is a tool specifically designed for fighting enemies, not one that just so happens to help with deterring them. Something that provides a permanent solution to a group of mobs, since a stasis rifle can only freeze so many things, and i don't like the prospect of having to use up a charge of my stasis rifle to stop a shocker from killing me whenever I exit or enter my base.
Drop the idea of a harpoon gun and maybe use something more futuristic like a plasma lance. It would shoot a beam of ionized gas at incredible speed towards wherever you point it, dealing damage to whatever it hits. The weapon could be used to take out mobs from a distance, so by the time they get within attacking range, the entire pack is reduced to one or one and a half creatures. Because of the high heat created by the lance, any small fish you kill with it would be cooked instantly. Of course leviathans would shrug off the attacks, but given enough time, you could kill a reaper in a quarter of the time it takes with just a freeze ray and a hunting knife. To tie in to a previous post I made, the lance could use a significant amount of charge in order to fire it, so it would prohibit wanton use of the weapon and give it some downsides as well.
As I said earlier, you can't study the insides of a creature that's still alive.
Also, @04Leonhardt , quit digging yourself a grave. Try coming up with some decent arguments instead of shitposting.
While I agree that the stasis rifle right off the bat is a bit strong...I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. This is a setting where a single fragment is enough to reverse engineer apparently a full working blueprint (I would like to see that system stretched out a bit too). Regardless the stasis rifle is a very versatile tool as well as a means of self protection. None of which is covered by the proposal of the Leon or in this one. While yes you can make the stasis rifle itself an upgrade, you also make it really the only good choice.
Like I have said, you have the choice of a gun that has limitations on ammo and one that does not, right there that significantly puts one above the other. Space is a constant constraint, and while I can't speak to everyone's preference; I know that I would much rather have a tool that allows me more space to make more efficient resource gathering trips then one that takes up space for ammo which I might not need or be appropriate for the job. Especially if it is depleting either my air or forcing trips to the surface to recharge it further for shooting spear at all. Why take a weapon that unreliable over one where the only concern is if you have enough charge and have the appropriate charging fins for infinite use?
That said, I would like to see more progression with the rifle itself to customize aspects. Such as the big charge bubble could be an upgrade, or it could deliver a mild shock to the target of a bubble to drive it off. Or both. The more I look and talk about the weapon the more apparent the vast amount of possibilities to upgrade it. Which could be fun in and of itself, and for me being able to take a simple stasis rifle and eventually have it do awesome things like phase targets or create defense perimeters could be a fun aspect. It could even be used as a storytelling or exploration reward for poking around every corner of Subnatica's world. Just to see what fun upgrade you can recover next.
But as to the subject at hand, there is and will always be fundamental problems with having both a spear-gun and stasis rifle. To have the former be put into the game and anything representing itself it would need several limitations (and severe ones at that), these same limitations are pretty much non-existent in the stasis rifle which is already in the game. Furthermore the spear-gun would overlap so many of the features of the stasis rifle, and would take further resource investment to use whereas the stasis rifle only takes a set amount of resources to make and use. Finally, as the devs have stated they want to DE-emphasize combat which means even if this were something introduced it probably would still take more trouble then it is worth to use it against any significant threat (I.E. expect even stalkers to take more then one spear to kill).
are you...serious. you see no benefit to having two weapons that fit niche rolls the complement eachother.
if you are talking about the semantics of balance i'm sure we could figure something better out.
but you are just not liking having a glass cannon? do you not understand the concept of game ballance??
do you not understand why it would be a neat trade off to get much more power with a cost then infinite weak power
ARE YOU JUST GOING TO IGNORE EVERYTHING THERE.
*gets up from computer*
*distant* GOD DAMN IT GUYS. COME ON.
1. Rename the Stasis Rifle to "Stasis Gun", because its not a rifle by any definition. However it does have some similarities with a hot-glue/caulking gun.
2. Spearguns IMHO are tools for fishing and already outclassed by the gravity gun which can snatch fish up at range. A laser weapon would be cool though.
And I mentioned this earlier, but its worth repeating that the SeaMoth is an excellent weapon. It can literately road-kill sharks/fish (anything smaller then a reaper) and its fun too because they try to run away. It's so efficient i don't even bother with the tedious task of stasissing+knifing anything (smaller then a reaper) anymore. Getting tired of that stasis-effect/sound as well.
3. In the near future there will be hostile life bigger and likely meaner (if that's possible) then reapers. I imagine that's when we will get a proper armament/defense-systems for protecting bases and the cyclops. Electrified bases sound cool (reminds me of Sphere), but the same for the cyclops seems too 20k leagues cliche, and would be too little to late if the hostiles are that big. We would need a cyclops torpedo (at the minimum), or laser turrets. The exosuit will likely get a minigun/rail-gun arm (like in NS2) to deal with lava zone enemies. But its gonna probably be months before we need/get any of these toys. Maybe by then the game will become gradually more darker (which it will need to be if multiplayer becomes a thing, otherwise imagine how boring PVP will be with stasis rifle + knife... If not PVP then only other design choice is COOP vs dangerous spawning sea creatures, like every other crafting openworld multiplayer game).
The Propulsion Cannon upgrade makes sense, in that it's just setting it to "Wumbo" and removing the requirement for it be near something in order to fire.
Making the Stasis Rifle behave like a grappling hook would be silly. As would making it shoot a permanent, movable net that would ensnare a single creature. As would making it into a lightning gun to recharge vehicles remotely, because then it'd be a laser rifle, and even more people would complain.
Why are you so against adding something new and exciting to the game?
Is it because of its basic function as a hunting tool? Please tell me you're not going this much out of your way just to keep pointy sticks out of the game.
Yes I agree that having the stasis rifle shoot a grappling hook would be silly....so is a harpoon gun. If for no other reason then the devs have said they want to make a grapple tool (or at least thinking about it). However that alone does not necessitate a harpoon gun, and frankly the utility of such a function would be limited.
Nothing (practical) that you have proposed for the harpoon gun can not be used to upgrade the stasis rifle. Again it's a high tech harpoon gun with little inventory cost, a set resource cost, potentially infinite ammo, has a lot of utility, and can be used for a variety of defensive maneuvers on land or in sea. Something that your harpoon gun fails to measure up to with a slower fire speed, MUCH larger inventory cost, continuous resource drain, limited ammo, and very limited utility. Because even if you have all the different spears in the world, it wouldn't matter if you can only take two or thee spears with you practically. Even if you DO have the spear you need for the task at hand...what if you miss?
It just raises to many problems.
Complimenting each other would be what the stasis rifle does with the propulsion gun. Their uses overlap very little and in fact cover what the other cannot do, though i'll usually stick with the stasis rifle since to me it has more in general use then the propulsion gun. But the harpoon gun and the stasis rifle in yours and Leon's proposed ideas just overlap far to much. To the point you have to create more and more crazy ammo types to justify it being there. But if you take the stock rifle (with no charge-up or charge fins) and stock harpoon gun...the stasis rifle still wins and by a large amount.
It is really and plainly that simple, and nothing about balance. You have a spear that can be thrown...how many uses will that give you? Now compare that to a projectile that freezes anything it touches which includes sinking ships. To get the harpoon gun on the same level as the stasis rifle you have to put in all this extra stuff JUST to get it to have the same basic utility as a stock stasis rifle. At which point it just makes more sense to not put the harpoon gun in and take that crazy stuff and apply what you can to the stasis rifle or other things in game already.
Please,I have been watching this since page 3 and you seem to be the one who is purposely putting words into other people's mouths.Terra blade presented a well written comment politely about how a harpoon gun would not benefit you at all and you respond rudely by straw-manning Terra blade and ignoring his points.
You state that everyone sees the word "harpoon gun" and immediately argues with you.Seeing the above posts,you have just been disregarding posts and accusing them of something unreasonably.
Maybe,instead of disregarding everyone and then proceeding to flame everyone,you can read the arguments presented.
I know you'll respond to this by either ignoring it or giving 4 sentences of straw-manning.
So because the stasis rifle ball glows, we might as well remove flares and the flashlight right? Because it overlaps with the Stasis Rifle we can't have things that do anything similar, by your logic. Also make it so the Propulsion Cannon can't hold creatures because that's what the Stasis Rifle does!
So anyone suggesting a weapon is wrong, but in this scenario where making the Stasis Rifle into a lightning gun specifically to shut down my suggestion, it's totally ok?
Because the net would be permanent (Allowing you to manually move larger creatures around with the Propulsion Cannon, and would stay on them until you cut it off with the knife), and targeted on one creature. But, of course, that's literally what the Stasis Rifle does, right?
@DefectivePeeper If you're just gonna write a paragraph on why you're upset with me without actually contributing to the discussion, send it to me in a PM and leave the personal attacks out of the public eye.
Gonna go Jimmy Neutron on their asses
It could also grow things too, but that's already kind of done with the Reefback DNA.
The threat level would scale accordingly.
So you take that big scary reaper and turn him into an angry little finger biter
Or make a Stalker into a reaper sized colossus for whatever reason.
Would be a way to get Reapers in your fish tank at home with some sci-fi mumbo jumbo about the aquarium keeping the shrink ray science from wearing off.
Could also add in different mechanics, like if you shrink down a Bone Shark, nearby Sand Sharks would try to eat it. Or if you make a Biterfish big enough it would try to go around munching on other critters. So you could set up like giant sea monster fights.
Science has the answer.
You're simply not asking the right questions.
We can grow things with the DNA transfuser.
I hope we can shrink things too.
Maybe use the propulsion gun to shoot those DNA syringes at things
Harpoon guns just seem very primitive compared to the rest. Something to launch DNA transfusion darts is somewhere in between, but works in my head since it fills a distinct purpose.
Between Propulsion Gun, Repulsion Gun, and Stasis Rifle which you can develop fairly easily and quickly now, I've never understood the need for harpoon launchers because they do what the harpoons can, but better. You can Stasis-shot something and then knife it, which would damage less tissue if you need to get a creature largely intact for studies. To instantly kill things, a Propulsion Gun is more effective since you can pull and then launch them into solid matter to crush them to death, with much less user accuracy needed.
I can actually understand people more who want a tactical torpedo or something that will blast away large hostile creatures like Reapers. That would at least fit the rest of the tech in terms of how advanced it is. The only reason not to use it would be something implied by the setting, like a Star Trek style Prime Directive that forbids Alterra from including that sort of weaponry in their fabricator blueprint tech trees.
[/quote] But the harpoon gun and the stasis rifle in yours and Leon's proposed ideas just overlap far to much. To the point you have to create more and more crazy ammo types to justify it being there. But if you take the stock rifle (with no charge-up or charge fins) and stock harpoon gun...the stasis rifle still wins and by a large amount.
It is really and plainly that simple, and nothing about balance. You have a spear that can be thrown...how many uses will that give you? Now compare that to a projectile that freezes anything it touches which includes sinking ships. To get the harpoon gun on the same level as the stasis rifle you have to put in all this extra stuff JUST to get it to have the same basic utility as a stock stasis rifle. At which point it just makes more sense to not put the harpoon gun in and take that crazy stuff and apply what you can to the stasis rifle or other things in game already.[/quote]
terra. THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.
OF COURSE A BASE STASIS RIFLE IS BETTER THAN A BASE SPEAR GUN.
THAT'S LIKE SAYING AN UNENCHANTED DIAMOND PICKAXE IS BETTER THAN A STONE ONE (minecraft)
you get the spear gun earlier into the game then you get the stasis rifle.
the difference is, when you upgrade the spear gun, it goe into a different role.
AOE spread low effectiveness compared to single point super effectiveness.
But look, it's a, get this, STASIS rifle, not a lightning rifle or a disco rifle. It should do what it says on the tin, put things in stasis, adding all these different functions to it would ruin game balance and make many different items obsolete. We do not need a futuristic swiss army knife, we need separate items for separate tasks. If I go out of my base I should think to myself, "What items should I bring with me on my journey today? Do I want to go collecting metal and other resources, or do I want to go exploring and find new areas, or do I want to go hunting and get more food and possibly materials for other things?" Adding in a jack of all trades item would completely ruin the whole mechanic of having limited inventory space, since you'd only require one item to fit all your needs. It's bad design.
do u wike my idea tho QQ lol
Leonhardt please.You contributed nothing to the arguments at the start by just straw manning everyone you disagree with.
This was not a personal attack,I was pointing out that you were not properly answering Terrablade's posts and you were disregarding many well thought out posts by straw manning them.Maybe,instead of being a hypocrite,you read what everyone types in detail then you respond.
An insult to try to discredit or discourage my argument.
Purely inflammatory.
Sure, I may have an abrasive posting style but at least I'm on topic.
I said before, if you want to badmouth users without actually mentioning the topic at hand, at least have the decency to send it to me in a PM.
Otherwise, leave me the hell alone. You have 3 posts and two of them are you attacking me, not even my argument or my ideas, without even mentioning the things I'm talking about.
Could not agree more. I want more things that do less, not fewer things that do more.
Variety is good in sandbox style games. Gives the player more options and more ways to play.
My suggestion for a multi-torpedo launcher kinda does this, but is mostly a different way of using current tools (Launching a Chum Torpedo > Releasing a Peeper to try to distract a Bone Shark), or does similar things in a different way (Flash Torpedo greatly brightens an area for a few seconds and blinds Bone Sharks to make them flee > Dropping a flare to create a tiny light source or whacking the Bone Shark with your knife until it runs away)
The discussion in this topic is about lethal, or non-lethal weaponry right? Because it seems to have derailed a little.
This topic peaked my interest because the discussion seems to go beyond this game into real life even.
My general opinion on lethal weapons: Violence = Stupid. Or in other words, the less intelligent someone is, the more likely he is to employ violence. Violence is used when reason fails. I am not saying that violence is always a bad thing, one must be allowed to defend oneself. But there's always stupid involved when it comes to violence. And it's always stupid who starts using violence. So yes... at times using violence is inescapable, because stupid has chosen to use it and we have our hand being forced.
However, the above applies to humans. Not animals.
Animals posess no reason, or logic or empathy. Quoting from the classic movie Jaws: "they swim, they eat and they make little baby sharks" They are not good, or evil.. because they can't distinguish one from the other. Taking being attacked by a predator personal is a really, really dumb response, because the animal does not think. It just does.
We the players, get dropped into this vast alien world, with an established eco system. We have technology. We are superiour in every way... apart from being physically weaker than most organisms. That is why we encase ourselves in titantium bases, subs and need tools to ward off the wild life. We have a choice. We kill because we choose to kill. We can be held accountable for what we do, because we can think.
Finding yourself in a situation where you get eaten shows poor judgement.. and well... stupidity... because you had all the tools available to prevent you from being in that situation.
I am wondering what drives people to want to kill things. Like a cave man clubbing bugs. Or a child pulling out the legs out of spiders. I was hoping that in the future, human kind would have evolved beyond that... and the way the game is presenting it, it seems human kind has in fact, evolved an attitude that chooses co-existance.
Then again, another thing that makes this game so good is the liberty you have. So... I suppose if people want to slaughter everything in their path.. that option should be open to them...... I guess there's no escaping throwing them a bone.. in the form of giving them something really violent.... like changing the Stasis Rifle in a Borg Cutting Beam that cuts things clean in half! BZZZZZZZZ. All must die, die, die!!
So... scientist or poacher... have people choose.
Now I just want to enlarge a Stalker and watch it destroy a Reaper
I didn't say that you can't have similar function, I said that after a certain point the ideas just overlap to much. You are proposing a gun that would serve many of the functions that the stasis rifle already serves, but does it in a more inefficient manner and not nearly as well. Not to mention some of the ideas, like the grapple, would just not work nearly as well as you think it would. You are coming up with all these ideas to justify a weapon that is simply inferior to the model already present in the game. As soon as the stasis rifle were to get any kind of, or similar upgrades, the harpoon gun would be left in the dust.
As for flares...no I don't use them since I have a flashlight. By the time I throw a flare I could have use the flashlight to track my target, switch to the stasis rifle, and then pop a bubble. While I do feel aesthetically the stasis rifle bubbles should produce light, I don't recall every saying they should replace flares. But your own idea of a flare harpoon still means you have to shoot, reload and select the ammo you want to use, and then fire. It wouldn't be any more efficient, in fact I believe it would be very much less so.
I also didn't suggest that the stasis rifle should be a lightning gun to shoot down your suggestion. I stated that it would be more likely and simple to have it as an upgrade option for the stasis rifle. At the end of the day you are asking for something quite clearly against the stated design philosophy. The stasis rifle is already their compromise to put a harpoon gun into the game without going against their stated philosophy. If you want them to break their design philosophy, well if it were me I would want a very well though out reason. Unfortunately you must apparently agree since the only response thus far has been to try to discredit my character or make strawman attacks, but never actually addressing any thing I write that point out critical flaws with your idea.
As Ironhorse said, you are better then this. You have decent ideas, just not ones that make a solid case for the existence of a harpoon gun.
First off I never used the term 'lightning gun', I said it could be upgraded to deliver a shock that when the bubble ends makes the target run away. Still puts the target in stasis, it just then makes threats run away rather then continue to attack you. Second, I said that yes these could be upgrades, and I don't recall saying it would be a swiss army weapon (though it kinda already is) but that the stasis rifle could have it's upgrades gotten by exploration.
I'm very much in the camp of wanting options and having to prepare for a mission. Personally I thing the charge up for the bigger bubbles should be it's own upgrade/version of the stasis rifle. The shock version could be another type, with many other to discover/build for your various needs and loadout types.
EDIT: Missed the first post, so now i'll address it as well. I've tried hard to not say that the stasis rifle outright has infinite ammo, but that it COULD have infinite ammo. With charge fins the only time I put a dent into the pool has been when I use charge shots. In fact the charge fins I find negate the need for batteries for just about anything, with only weilders needing them if you have to do a series of repairs back to back (I suppose the seaglide, but anymore I find it's a tool that largely doesn't get used as much).As for multiple enemies, that is where you have to think a little creatively. Yes you can't zap them all individually, but throw a big bubble and you can catch multiple at once, or shoot a nearby wall/floor/ceiling and you have a safe haven to swim into as they all catch themselves in the relatively long lasting bubble. Generally this is how I deal with biters if I don't immedietly spot them, or cave spiders when I want to get past them without being bit.
While I love the idea for the lance...not in this game (and I love lances in general as weapons, but I blame Dark souls for that). The problem being is that the devs have flat out said they don't want weapons, which means unless you can come up with some nifty utility uses chances are it is a moot argument right out of the gate. That is pretty much my major opposition to the harpoon gun as well, it's flat out a weapon and the devs already gave us a very cool and versatile compromise in the form of the stasis rifle. They seem to be okay with defense mechanism like the seamoth active defense, or something that has a lot of utility use like the knife, but not with an outright weapon.
Personally I would rather be able to slot in mods like we do with the seamoth into other pieces of gear like the seaglide and stasis rifle itself. A faster charge module, taser module, one that might even enhance the glow of bubbles (yeah it really bugs me they don't glow) to maybe the point of a flare but at greater power usage. Barring that the stasis rifle leaves a lot of room for upgrades and different versions.
No, you are missing the point. They are both the same tool just with different rarities and speed of use. However the speargun vs stasis rifle issue is not the same thing, and in fact would be akin to the powerglide vs seamoth. Once you have the seamoth, especially with a moonpool, how often do you use the seaglide? The seamoth can have virtually unlimited power, allows you to regenerate your oxygen, allows mulitiple upgrades, protects you from danger, and ect. The seaglide doesn't do any of that, and while it does have uses and applications later perhaps, these are rare and few between. To the point that if the seaglide WASN'T already in the game I would have made similar arguments that is almost completly useless. Indeed, most survival games anymore I don't bother building one, as I rarely ever find myself in need for something that can't be upgraded.
Now yes there will be upgrades for the seaglide eventually. But the standing argument still applies. You need a lot of upgrades or really cool/unique ones to make the seaglide a useful tool to have in conjunction with the seamoth/cyclops. The latter fitting their own roles and having uses that they can't fulfill on their own that is unique and sets them apart (like the stasis vs propulsion guns).
The problem though is the category of the tools. The seaglide and seamoth are unquestionably NOT weapons (ramming aside) but the harpoon gun is flat out a weapon and even if you add utility ammo at it's core it's still a LETHAL weapon. Something the devs have been pretty adamant on NOT putting in the game. The stasis rifle has always been NON-lethal, and adding utility won't really change that, or if it does it's pretty much easy to scale back and/or remove the lethal elements without breaking the weapon. Something you just can't do with a harpoon gun as many have wanted it. Which is actually why I think the devs are ok with torpedoes, as you can (and they did) make non-lethal variants along with potentially a lot of utility uses.
Well that's just silly. In a game where so many things are out to kill you, weapons should be a must have, especially if we do end up finding sentient life deep underwater. I do like the idea of helplessness, especially against massive behemoths of the deep, but it ends up getting old real fast in games like Subnautica. I'd rather be able to do something about the monsters waiting outside my base for a snack rather than having to leave them there because I have almost no choice. While the repulsion cannon and stasis rifle work well deterring predators, they don't work well in combating them. If/When higher lifeforms are introduced into the game, no weapons means natural selection will get the better of you.
Not necissarily, that would be like in other games where you need to think outside the box in how to overcome the obstacle. I can think of many games where a seemingly insurmountable problem such as an enemy immune to our weapons actually had alternative ways to kill the beast. Could be as simple as knocking the enemy out long enough to mess with it's DNA or to introduce a custom virus. That still doesn't necessitate more weapons, just more creative solutions and opportunities to use them.
Remember, the devs have only said that they don't want to introduce weapons and promote violence as the easiest solution. Not that there won't be ways to use tools to eliminate a threat permanently. Whether that means making a threat docile or outright killing it is a matter of debate however.
Maybe,read the whole comment and you will see why it's not a personal attack?
You literally quoted a single sentence and just said that it was a personal attack.
Please read the whole comment before you respond.What I was doing was pointing out you were vying childishly and being a hypocrite,I was not personally attacking you.
A personal attack is when someone goes after you in the sense that you present an idea or argument,someone ignores that and says something like
"Lol why should I respond you're a faggot"
What I did was polite and involved no vulgar words,and was in no way a personal attack.What I said was along the lines of
"You have been constantly straw-manning Terra and ignoring his arguments"
But you probably read it as
"You faggot stop putting words in other people mouths.Go suck a dick your mom works as a stripper lololololfaggot
Again,now you are arguing properly but just to clarify,I was not personally attacking you.I was attackin the way you argue.
inb4 another wall of text attacking me that has nothing to do with the discussion.
More ways to eliminate, or rather, neutralize threats is the goal here.
Currently we have two primary tools that can do a specific set of things.
Once the DNA transfuser is in and we can inject some Friendship into stalkers and bone sharks to get them to bugger off, we'll be up to 3.
I still like the idea of a flash based grenade/torpedo to scare off bone sharks and creatures sensitive to light.
Using Peepers as part of a crafting recipe for a chum grenade/torpedo that would attract predators to an area and get them to fight each other over the meal wouldn't be too "violent" would it?
Had an idea for Mjolnir Mines that would basically be the Seamoth's Lightning Bomb in a round metal floating ball. Drop em and they float in place like a Beacon, and explode with energy if a big enough critter gets too close, potentially scaring them off or frying them. For base defense. Of course you count tune detection range and power output to your liking. Wouldn't work on Shockers, though. Hell the critters might even be attracted to em.
The Dimension Tide would be a Seabase or Cyclops mounted Wormhole Generator Cannon that would punch a hole in reality to suck a fish through, "harmlessly" teleporting them to another part of the ocean (I.e. out of the game). Of course, a strong swimmer like a Reaper Leviathan might be able to escape the suction of the warp, unless it was a direct hit.
He has not been insulting you, as he clearly explained yet again - he is informing you that your posting style (which you call abrasive) has been largely non productive and non conducive to a discussion, much like I have said before.
Informing you that the way you discuss and reply is not productive to a discussion does not equate to an insult.
That being said, I'm glad to see the better quality posts lately.