Who here thinks a commanders attitude affects marine performance?
umdum9
London ON. Join Date: 2015-01-24 Member: 201013Members
London ON. Join Date: 2015-01-24 Member: 201013Members
Comments
I disagree. I think those players are toxic and annoying. I think they actively hurt player retention. When you join a game as a rookie and this supposed commander is yelling at you for doing something you do not know how to do, that is one reason we lose rookies. I think it effects rookies in that way.
As a veteran I find these players incredibly annoying. They will hurt my performance because I find them so annoying. They are not being helpful in anyway. I am not playing ns2 to be yelled at, or listen to someone else be yelled at. I will usually find another server. If I can not I will ask them to be a bit nicer which often leads to an argument. One of us typically leaves the server shortly after. I can usually find a new server though.
If you are saying what I think you are saying, that is an example of negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is not bad, but often used poorly like in a public game of ns2. Negative reinforcement can be very effective in certain situations. People respond differently to negative reinforcement which leads to its problems. I just don't think it has a place in public ns2 because more often than not it just creates stress.
TLDR: Vote kick or eject asshole players, or alert an admin if you happen to be on a server that is well-monitored. You don't need to let these punks ruin your game.
Unlikely, this is a game people play for fun in a serious way. Verbal abuse will get you votekicked rather quickly, unless it's of course that delightful British kinda verbal abuse they tend to inflict on their mates
Positive reinforcement like "good job killing that fade NSplayer!" or "NSplayer needs a weld" or "Good lane coverage, keep it up" and "nice try on killing that lerk" all help to motivate your team. Even if the team loses, the round is more enjoyable if the comm has a good attitude.
I must insert the notion that IF NS2 was designed better for public play (no artificial timers, less slippery slopes, more comebacks) that you'd have less of these type of people, and the remaining ones would be laughed out of the server, much like those that would attempt a then useless vote concede.
Yes, it can be used to motivate people to a goal.. But out commander was not using negative reinforcement. He was being plain mean. No motivation whatsoever. Refused to give us med's and was overall being salty.
EDIT: No, it does not make people play better. I think it makes people more productive.
Thank you for your response. That sounds like just a really bad commander.
I still don't think I understand what you are saying when you say "No, it does not make people play better. I think it makes people more productive."
Can you say what you think makes people more productive again? How are playing better and being productive two different things?
From my experience there needs to be a balance, positive reinforcement should be applied generously to keep your marines doing good things. But sometimes you just gotta yell at them to get something done. Being outright mean isn't usually effective though.
I tend to start a round complimenting and being positive to let the players know I care, then later on when I have to yell at them to get something done, they know that it really seriously has to get done RIGHT THE **** NOW.
If all you ever are is mean, there's no bite to any of your words... Not to mention that you're just being a dick. Being all fruity and bubbly (when things might not call for it) is equally ineffective though. Be real, be honest, and your team will come to trust you.
I've also noticed that if you can build a reputation within communities as a comm (or field comm) that knows what they're doing, people will just trust you. There's a lot of reputation involved in the business (Are you more likely to listen to Simba or some random pubber you've never seen before?)
"Negative reinforcement" is often incorrectly used in lieu of "Punishment". In behavior modification (where it comes from) the terms "negative reinforcement" and "positive reinforcement" are not implying a good or bad value - they both reinforce and thus increase the behavior. Positive indicates the application of stimuli, whereas negative indicates the withholding of stimuli.
Not hitting the child while they study is an example of negative reinforcement; Hitting the child to make them study would be positive reinforcement.
So when I read your sentence, I am imagining a commander who is not mute in order for his team to succeed ... which makes perfect sense and is what you would want.
The game got to a point where they had every single res except our spawn res, but I noticed the rines were performing worse and worse and were having a hard time finishing. A lot of our team wanted to concede, and under normal circumstances I would have also done so long before it reached that point. However, I knew that the longer the game went on, the more the marines would get demoralized by their commander, the more ground we would take back, and we would eventually win. I voiced this prediction to my team and they decided to press on and not concede. Sure enough, whilst it was hard fought, we eventually won. Coming back from an otherwise impossible situation. And sure, the rines lost some good players - which helped - but this was long after we took the advantage.
In the readyroom afterwards, the whole team was complaining about how demoralizing the comm was, blaming him for the loss. These weren't complete nubs who didn't know better, but aussie pub regulars. And whilst it wasn't a team completely full to the brink with competitive players, their team was categorically better than ours by a large margin. But they just got so tired at the comm that they began underperforming - uncharacteristically so.
Everytime I read one of these about a demoralizing commander, I automatically assume it's Bubba Gump and imagine him doing these things for dramatic effect during the story.
When I hear play better I think your accuracy and engagements on the enemies (Strafing, strafe jumping). When I hear Productive I think going where you are needed and not screwing around in the base. It does not make you any better but at least your using what ability's you have towards the primary objective.
Hahaha, thats funny. These commanders get muted within a minute, so they wouldn't even get their message across. Or is it just me who mutes them?
What commanders need are clear and precise communication. Name -> location -> objective. Updates on general objective. No shouting or begging needed. People will usually comply unless they think its a really bad idea but they will go along with minor disagreements.
Three sentence guide to good commanding.
The IronHorse's family, with Mr. IronHorse in his everyday attire:
It looks like he positively reinforced his wife and kid in her lap into a stupor.
yeh lol dunno if that woman is photoshopped.
hawt though
Generally if a commander talks to you on a public game it's because :
On a more skilled game (public or not) the commander doesn't have to speak his mind. The field units did check the map and know where to be before the command asks.
The only thing you can add is saying where is what for helping the commander see what he cannot without a scan. It clearly never happens when when i command. Nobody say "2 skulks @ location". Those simple things that make any average player a good player. In fact it's the opposite, i'm giving them the information...
It's really time to make the players respect the commanders:
Did you ever thought that it could be you (and your teammates) that are actually the reason why the commander could be stressed out (or upset) ?
Put some water in your wine. You're not uber skilled if the commander starts to speak to you. No commander, no game. You want to change things in this area; go commander. It's needed. And please don't engage in the logic of removing the commander because this or that. This is NS not CS.
edit:
Oh i forgot to tell: i'm still voting for the commander to be able to slap idiots.
Didn't you used to have "promo" power as in +5 awesome or something
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