Rookie only and "casual" seems the way to go so far, this still doesn't solve the problem of very high skilled players influencing the gameplay dramatically though.
The only way to truly tackle that issue is to completely do away with the traditional community-run server paradigm and introduce a robust matchmaking system, and alter the game flow such that servers are round/match based, emptying once a game is completed, rather than allowing players to freely come and go as they please.
Look at CS-GO for example; while it still does have the community-run servers, the competitive matchmaking is at the very head of what is presented to the player.
I've made numerous posts here and there for years about how even the simplest of integrations like a portal to ENSL web page within the NS2 client would at least be a rudimentary effort to do something like this.
Switching NS2 over to matchmaking would be the worst thing you could possibly do to it.
I have no doubt that the server browser and that ability it gives to choose what server you join us the only reason NS2 didn't die off within its first year.
It may work somewhat for CS:GO, but that's only because the game has such a huge playerbase... I mean it's valve and CS, it probably had more players on it's first day than NS2 has ever had... And even with all those players I couldn't stand the matchmaking system. I had to play via the browser in order to try the game.
I mean honestly what is the appeal of having a system that completely and totally prevents you from having ANY control over what server you join? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I far prefer being able to find and favorite a few good LOCAL servers and play on them... I would never dream of trying to play on a Russian Australian or Asian server, and being placed in them against my will is pretty common with matchmaking in my experiences.
Edit: Besides, matchmaking traditionally does a pretty bad job of keeping high skill and low skill players separate.. Most of the time I end up being placed with whoever else is searching for a game at that point. I've seen some hilariously one sided stacks in games with matchmaking... Even worse than what we have today in NS2.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
There is one thing i have never understanded:
People have no problems of waiting ages to play one gather but on the other hand we hear things like "i have no time to seed a server".
Makes no sense overall.
And for all who wants a matchmaking system:
A system like that doesnt work with the current community based server situation like meatmachine mentioned.
Its great that the rookies get there "bootcamp" finally, but what im missing is a mechanism to get rid of fukin smurfs.
Im sure these dumbass players cant await the next patch only to fire up one of there multiple accounts to slaughter the rookies without any resistance.
Im sure a basic protection KDR/Accuracy and or score per minute based could be easy implemented.
Just ban these cancer on all rookie servers.
Without that, i think the whole "bootcamp"-idea could end in an disaster.
I'm kind of against having it go by hours played because that isn't really a measure of skill or indicator of who would stomp... Plus it fragments an already tiny community.
I've seen people with 1500 hours that I can't even come close to competing with, and I have over 2200... Also just because someone has high hours doesn't mean they'll stomp. I've gone into games with rookies and commanded or played gorge. (and seen a few others that will do likewise)
I think it would be far better to have only 2 types of server (like we have now) only sorted by kd ratio instead of hours. The green "casual" servers with under 2.0 kdr and the white "pro" servers for those with over 2.0...
Because honestly the only players I ever really see stomping rookies all have over 2.0.. (some even have over 3.0) They are the problem imo.
Plus anyone who did stomp on the "casual" servers would end up with a kdr over 2.0, which would then force them to play with the pros.
There is one thing i have never understanded:
People have no problems of waiting ages to play one gather but on the other hand we hear things like "i have no time to seed a server".
Makes no sense overall.
And for all who wants a matchmaking system:
A system like that doesnt work with the current community based server situation like meatmachine mentioned.
Its great that the rookies get there "bootcamp" finally, but what im missing is a mechanism to get rid of fukin smurfs.
Im sure these dumbass players cant await the next patch only to fire up one of there multiple accounts to slaughter the rookies without any resistance.
Im sure a basic protection KDR/Accuracy and or score per minute based could be easy implemented.
Just ban these cancer on all rookie servers.
Without that, i think the whole "bootcamp"-idea could end in an disaster.
This and this.
The question is how do you determine a smurf and a rookie who is genuinely a good shooter? How can hive separate the two?
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
On moderated servers you can identify smurfs very easy when you spectate them.
No zero point rookie with 1 hr in the game would position like they do.
They would not grab a shotgun, run straight to the hive and kill everything on the way and in the hive.
NS2 is about positioning and really no 1 hr player would position themself like the 2000hr div1 players.
Im sure if a green rookie with 1hr gametime has constant accuracys over 30%, KDR of 8 or higher is very suspicious
On the other hand, if the smurfaccount has reached lvl4, he cant join the servers anymore so he has to use a new account.
But im sure, there some really dumb players out there would would buy a new copy only to slaughter a few hrs.
How many people do you honestly think buy alt accounts just to invade rookie only servers? I honestly don't think there are that many people that do it.
I have an alt. I know several people that do. The alt account has 300 hours and has a hive score of 2500. I don't go in any server that I wouldn't with my main. The only reason I have it is because the current hive system is broken. When on my main... every game is elo shuffled so I would essentially get a team full of new/lesser skilled players to balance out my broken elo score. I couldn't ever gorge or screw around since the shuffle expected me to carry... Sometimes I want a relaxing game where I could lerk (my lerk is worst NA btw), gorge or comm.
If there actually are players who buy alts to play in rookie only servers, then that's pretty dumb. I guess I've never been in one so I wasn't aware its an issue. I can say with a pretty high level of confidence that high level comp players wouldn't be the ones to do this.
Rookie only and "casual" seems the way to go so far, this still doesn't solve the problem of very high skilled players influencing the gameplay dramatically though.
The only way to truly tackle that issue is to completely do away with the traditional community-run server paradigm and introduce a robust matchmaking system, and alter the game flow such that servers are round/match based, emptying once a game is completed, rather than allowing players to freely come and go as they please.
Look at CS-GO for example; while it still does have the community-run servers, the competitive matchmaking is at the very head of what is presented to the player.
I've made numerous posts here and there for years about how even the simplest of integrations like a portal to ENSL web page within the NS2 client would at least be a rudimentary effort to do something like this.
And those servers are run by valve. What you are really suggesting is the elimination of community servers from the game in favor of UWE running servers for its matchmaking system.
On moderated servers you can identify smurfs very easy when you spectate them.
No zero point rookie with 1 hr in the game would position like they do.
They would not grab a shotgun, run straight to the hive and kill everything on the way and in the hive.
NS2 is about positioning and really no 1 hr player would position themself like the 2000hr div1 players.
Im sure if a green rookie with 1hr gametime has constant accuracys over 30%, KDR of 8 or higher is very suspicious
On the other hand, if the smurfaccount has reached lvl4, he cant join the servers anymore so he has to use a new account.
But im sure, there some really dumb players out there would would buy a new copy only to slaughter a few hrs.
Yes, granted dePARA but how is the hive meant to know who is a smurf and who is a very good rookie? We can tell who a smurf is due to position and the tactics they use, but a system like hive wouldnt be able to because statistically there is no difference between them, both low hours both have high acc / kdr, that is what I am trying to get at.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
I dont know how a good shooterplayer would perform at his 1st rounds as marine.
Especial when he is fighting against ground skulks, walker fades etc.
So lets say, a non-smurf has over 30% accuracy and over 8 KDR in nearly every round.
Let him leveling up faster till lvl 4.
Maybe some players are that good, then these players should be ready for "normal" NS2.
In CS:go you need 10 matches, then the system is calculating the right skill- level for you.
Maybe something like that.
If a player is far beyong average rookie skill, let him leave the rookie state earlier.
It seems there are more vet players using new accounts than before? Or maybe "NS Players" with 0 hive skills just watch 1000 tutorial videos before getting into the game nowadays. It is really funny to see 0 hive skillers break the elo mechanic because they are mvp in their team.
Frankly i don't understand why this is so hard. Your suggestions are splendid Yojimbo, and i guess there has been loads of similar suggestions in different forms before. The big problem is "where do the new-bred rookies" go? They have been showing up due the sales pretty much lately and they come in huge numbers messing some of our fav servers up. All other players i think have no bigger problems finding suiting games, well, maybe sometimes:) Any help on the matter would be great.
Anyway, the rookies need special treatment and you can solve it easily:in the excellent game Tribes:Ascend they let the rookies join servers that have skill level 1-7 restricted -a small spread within a certain skill level. When ppl reach level 8 they can join any servers and there are servers with level 8-50. Notice the roookie servers prohibits levels above in this example level 7 to join it. So no more Pub-stomping John S****!. Make rules simple so it is EASY for rookies to understand the rules! This is also very important because it has to do with motivation!
Frankly i don't understand why this is so hard. Your suggestions are splendid Yojimbo, and i guess there has been loads of similar suggestions in different forms before. The big problem is "where do the new-bred rookies" go? They have been showing up due the sales pretty much lately and they come in huge numbers messing some of our fav servers up. All other players i think have no bigger problems finding suiting games, well, maybe sometimes:) Any help on the matter would be great.
Anyway, the rookies need special treatment and you can solve it easily:in the excellent game Tribes:Ascend they let the rookies join servers that have skill level 1-7 restricted -a small spread within a certain skill level. When ppl reach level 8 they can join any servers and there are servers with level 8-50. Notice the roookie servers prohibits levels above in this example level 7 to join it. So no more Pub-stomping John S****!. Make rules simple so it is EASY for rookies to understand the rules! This is also very important because it has to do with motivation!
High skilled players influencing gameplay dramatically is an incredibly hard problem. As I have said multiple times in this thread, it is difficult for two reasons. 1) There are not that many of them. Maybe only enough for a single server at any given point in time. 2) It is easier to join a filled server than seeding a server.
#1 is not likely to be solved any time soon. Playercounts are going up but we don't know if they will stay there. Playercounts need to at least tripple if we are going to see any kind of difference with #1.
#2 is more manageable in what can be done but still not easy. How do you make it easier for high skilled players to join the same server. Playnow already tries to group them together. They have arrows on the server browser to show which serves have more skilled people. Gathers exist and are used. Veteran servers already exist and are used. So what else can be done? I really don't know. I just know veteran servers are not a solution.
What ghoul said with, "The ultimate goal would be including a matchmaking and league system ( cooperating with the ensl ) into NS2. So we have environments for all players to have fun and exciting rounds." might be the only real solution but I doubt it will completely solve the problem.
I can only really speak to my own experience as an admin over at TG and how it facilitates a thriving community.
This game is so complex that I don't honestly see a way that you'd be able to automate or autopilot the growth of the NS2 community without proper individuals communities in place. As a former admin over at TG, I worked constantly to facilitate a friendly yet competitive atmosphere that would grow our TG community. We'd have new players show up all the time of various skill levels and really the only way to get the veterans and new players to cooperate with each other was to teach tolerance and patience of every skill level.
Our community grew to such levels that I created and hosted a highly popular weekly event called Captain's Night. It was an event designated for higher skilled competition within our own community and targeted at those that wanted to elevate their gameplay. This struck a good balance of normal pub play during the week and a focused/targeted weekly night within our community that was for more competitive players.
After my departure from the TG admin team, I tried moving my skills to another server along with the higher skilled players from that community. Needless to say that the more competitive the players got, the more work was involved and I eventually got burned out from running such a community very quickly.
My outlook on the subject is that only through tolerance and patience at all levels of skill will the NS2 community grow to healthier levels of longevity; most of which can only be done with communities actively filled with respectful players and leadership teams in place.
After deliberating on newcomers corner on discord, I decided to make a post to gather thoughts of what people would think of this idea...
3 types of server, colour coded indicating level of difficulty.
***PLEASE NOTE*** Hive values are to serve as a guideline and not actual figures.
Rookies Only <- Less than 100 (Hive and/or steam hours). *Server name colour coded GREEN*
These servers will be the first stop rookies make, where they can learn the game at their own pace without outside interference of being stomped (Which does happen, no matter how many times people deny it).
Only issue I can foresee happening here is smurfs, they are not a pandemic in NS2 at the moment but just ONE smurf account can be enough to put a rookie off, maybe active server administrators can help police this issue?.
Rookie friendly -> 100 to 1000 hours (Hive and/or steam hours) (Need input here on how much is deemed suitable). *Server name colour coded YELLOW*
Features a sizeable portion of the player base, smurfs are no longer a problem but you still have the possibility of very high skilled players influencing the outcome of games? How can we work towards fixing this?
Veterans only (Subject to name change) -> 1000 (Hive and/or steam hours). *Server name colour coded RED*
Makes up the rest of the community, the true training grounds, highly skilled players influencing games is negated as remaining players have the ability to use teamwork to overcome any significant advantage?
This of course is a very basic and quick draft of what is being proposed, what can we add to it? How can we expand to it?
I'd love to hear your thoughts and input.
There would only be cancerous rookie wastelands and never a pub for over 1000 hour player to play. I would smurf in this system since I wouldnt be able to play pubs at all otherwise.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
The community based server structure is curse and blessing for NS2 at the same time.
While its great to have players investing time and money to host servers and stuff on one side every community wants to grow and survive so they hosting muliple server for example wich can kill other communitys on the other side.
Sometimes it looks like there own little community is more important for some people than NS2 itself.
I read so many posts in the past like "This change will kill my community"
Well, if a change is successfull with bringing and holding new players to the game, who cares about a community that might lose some players to whatever reason.
And the same people who wants matchmaking, dont want neutral hosted servers by UWE to maintain this feature.
With the current community based servers we will NEVER have matchmaking.
With the current community based servers we will NEVER have matchmaking.
Which is an extremely good thing. Matchmaking is like the cancer of online gaming.
Community servers with their admins, rules, communities, and most importantly the option to choose the game you join... They're a billion times better than even the best matchmaking system. (especially since matchmaking actually encourages trolling, harassment, racism, cheating, etc.)
With the current community based servers we will NEVER have matchmaking.
Which is an extremely good thing. Matchmaking is like the cancer of online gaming.
Community servers with their admins, rules, communities, and most importantly the option to choose the game you join... They're a billion times better than even the best matchmaking system. (especially since matchmaking actually encourages trolling, harassment, racism, cheating, etc.)
To be honest to a certain extent I agree with @MoFo1 on this one, long gone are the days where you could load up a traditional server browser and select the server you want to be on, brings me back to my first real competitive game - Alien vs Predator 2, man that game was built on communities.
In short I think the best solution at the moment is to keep it to rookie only and casual servers, alot of server hosters have more than one server currently at the moment, you only have to load up NS2 to see that, why don't communities just have 1 of each, 1 rookie only, 1 casual.
Wooza currently does this now, he could easily change his rookie friendly to rookie only and the impact would be minimal, he already implemented 10 spec slots before this new patch came out.
Why is it so hard to ask for a matchmaking/gather like system in ns2? You guys complains about "pub stomper" but in the same time don't want any system for high skill players.
Why is it so hard to ask for a matchmaking/gather like system in ns2? You guys complains about "pub stomper" but in the same time don't want any system for high skill players.
Its yet undetermined if such a system would be used, or if it's too late for something like that to work given the playerbase size.
Also people like their community servers.
Thus the amount of time and effort that could be put into creating this might not be worth it. But really, every time this is decided against, it's odds of ever being decided for decrease. So it's a self-defeating cycle...
About veteran servers:
I personally believe if all players would join the servers based on their "actual"
The ultimate goal would be including a matchmaking and league system ( cooperating with the ensl ) into NS2. So we have environments for all players to have fun and exciting rounds.
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
edited January 2016
I played a game recently with another player that was in s4 with me. I don't think either of us enjoyed it, but we kept playing. We really just kept eachothers teams in check so that neither team could win. It was basically me and 5 rookies vs him and 5 rookies. We commed we fielded we did whatever really, we were the only ones actually progressing the round.
None of the rookies noticed or gave a shit. We were basically in a 1v1, but without even trying to win.
I've never seen that many rookies speak up st once after a game about how much they enjoyed themselves. I didn't friend any if them and I'll never know if any kept playing. But I'm glad they got to play in a round like that, even though it was artificial. Single player games offer artificial experiences all the time so i don't think its a problem.
But, we both fucking hated it and stopped playing after that game. Just interesting that neither of us quit. I remember Foxxx joined my team at some point, he was being toxic, so I just shat on him a little in the rookies defense, I think it was appreciated that he should stfu snd play for fun or leave.
Tactical freedom was such a fun server ladt year before it died to no rookies I wonder if it's still full now because of that round. Inzo and I hated it, but by god, all the rookies had such a damn good time
Officially supported captains servers will attract many more "vet level" players than "Vet Only" Servers. In the past, I usually saw vet only servers go unused, while vet only captains servers were usually full.
Most vet players (from what I've seen) just want to enjoy the game. Nothing is less enjoyable (for most) than stacked/unbalanced games, which captains games are very good at fixing (better than any shuffle formula).
A basic interface already exists somewhere.
I would really suggest the 3 server types to be:
Rookie Only - "L2P Rookie"
Standard - "Join the herd of Cats!"
Captains - "ITS GO TIME"
Officially supported captains servers will attract many more "vet level" players than "Vet Only" Servers. In the past, I usually saw vet only servers go unused, while vet only captains servers were usually full.
Most vet players (from what I've seen) just want to enjoy the game. Nothing is less enjoyable (for most) than stacked/unbalanced games, which captains games are very good at fixing (better than any shuffle formula).
A basic interface already exists somewhere.
I would really suggest the 3 server types to be:
Rookie Only - "L2P Rookie"
Standard - "Join the herd of Cats!"
Captains - "ITS GO TIME"
Should definitely include captains mode for vet servers, had so much fun with them even on a normal pub server just nominating two captains then both of them take turns picking which player they want. fun!
One of the reasons shuffle or FET does not work well every time is because of skill variance. I mentioned this earlier in this thread. By skill variance I mean how spread out the skill is on a server. If you have some players with low hive skill of 500 and some players with high hive skill of 3000 there is a wide skill variance.
For the math part, the skill variance is just the standard deviation of hive skill on the server.
In my experience playing ns2 I have seen the variance range from 400-800 which is really quite high. A low variance makes it more likely to have more balanced matches.
The bottom 25% of hive skill ends at 998, and the top 25% begins at 1560. for players with over 100 hours This means that 50% of ns2's playerbase is between 998-1560 hive skill.
So I did a little experiment. I made 100 groups of 18 players with random skill values between 998 and 1560.
The minimum minimum skill variance was 117, and maximum was 212. The average skill variance was 161.
161 is a lot lower than the 400-800 variance I have seen on any given server.
So theoretically, if a server operator made a server that only allowed players between 998 and 1560 hive skill with forced shuffle would have the most balances games in ns2.
By limiting it to just that range of 998-1560 you would be preventing the least skilled and the most skilled players in ns2 from playing at that server.
I think there are some serious issues with segregation, but if a server operator were to do it this would be how.
Comments
The only way to truly tackle that issue is to completely do away with the traditional community-run server paradigm and introduce a robust matchmaking system, and alter the game flow such that servers are round/match based, emptying once a game is completed, rather than allowing players to freely come and go as they please.
Look at CS-GO for example; while it still does have the community-run servers, the competitive matchmaking is at the very head of what is presented to the player.
I've made numerous posts here and there for years about how even the simplest of integrations like a portal to ENSL web page within the NS2 client would at least be a rudimentary effort to do something like this.
I have no doubt that the server browser and that ability it gives to choose what server you join us the only reason NS2 didn't die off within its first year.
It may work somewhat for CS:GO, but that's only because the game has such a huge playerbase... I mean it's valve and CS, it probably had more players on it's first day than NS2 has ever had... And even with all those players I couldn't stand the matchmaking system. I had to play via the browser in order to try the game.
I mean honestly what is the appeal of having a system that completely and totally prevents you from having ANY control over what server you join? Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I far prefer being able to find and favorite a few good LOCAL servers and play on them... I would never dream of trying to play on a Russian Australian or Asian server, and being placed in them against my will is pretty common with matchmaking in my experiences.
Edit: Besides, matchmaking traditionally does a pretty bad job of keeping high skill and low skill players separate.. Most of the time I end up being placed with whoever else is searching for a game at that point. I've seen some hilariously one sided stacks in games with matchmaking... Even worse than what we have today in NS2.
People have no problems of waiting ages to play one gather but on the other hand we hear things like "i have no time to seed a server".
Makes no sense overall.
And for all who wants a matchmaking system:
A system like that doesnt work with the current community based server situation like meatmachine mentioned.
Its great that the rookies get there "bootcamp" finally, but what im missing is a mechanism to get rid of fukin smurfs.
Im sure these dumbass players cant await the next patch only to fire up one of there multiple accounts to slaughter the rookies without any resistance.
Im sure a basic protection KDR/Accuracy and or score per minute based could be easy implemented.
Just ban these cancer on all rookie servers.
Without that, i think the whole "bootcamp"-idea could end in an disaster.
This and this.
The question is how do you determine a smurf and a rookie who is genuinely a good shooter? How can hive separate the two?
No zero point rookie with 1 hr in the game would position like they do.
They would not grab a shotgun, run straight to the hive and kill everything on the way and in the hive.
NS2 is about positioning and really no 1 hr player would position themself like the 2000hr div1 players.
Im sure if a green rookie with 1hr gametime has constant accuracys over 30%, KDR of 8 or higher is very suspicious
On the other hand, if the smurfaccount has reached lvl4, he cant join the servers anymore so he has to use a new account.
But im sure, there some really dumb players out there would would buy a new copy only to slaughter a few hrs.
I have an alt. I know several people that do. The alt account has 300 hours and has a hive score of 2500. I don't go in any server that I wouldn't with my main. The only reason I have it is because the current hive system is broken. When on my main... every game is elo shuffled so I would essentially get a team full of new/lesser skilled players to balance out my broken elo score. I couldn't ever gorge or screw around since the shuffle expected me to carry... Sometimes I want a relaxing game where I could lerk (my lerk is worst NA btw), gorge or comm.
If there actually are players who buy alts to play in rookie only servers, then that's pretty dumb. I guess I've never been in one so I wasn't aware its an issue. I can say with a pretty high level of confidence that high level comp players wouldn't be the ones to do this.
And those servers are run by valve. What you are really suggesting is the elimination of community servers from the game in favor of UWE running servers for its matchmaking system.
One hit to kill them all.
And especial @ sales you see them very often.
They are not many, but enough to be a problem. I saw a admin banned 3 in one hr yesterday.
Well, you have this sort of retared individuums in every online game.
But if you can have a way to get rid of them, use it.
Yes, granted dePARA but how is the hive meant to know who is a smurf and who is a very good rookie? We can tell who a smurf is due to position and the tactics they use, but a system like hive wouldnt be able to because statistically there is no difference between them, both low hours both have high acc / kdr, that is what I am trying to get at.
Especial when he is fighting against ground skulks, walker fades etc.
So lets say, a non-smurf has over 30% accuracy and over 8 KDR in nearly every round.
Let him leveling up faster till lvl 4.
Maybe some players are that good, then these players should be ready for "normal" NS2.
In CS:go you need 10 matches, then the system is calculating the right skill- level for you.
Maybe something like that.
If a player is far beyong average rookie skill, let him leave the rookie state earlier.
Anyway, the rookies need special treatment and you can solve it easily:in the excellent game Tribes:Ascend they let the rookies join servers that have skill level 1-7 restricted -a small spread within a certain skill level. When ppl reach level 8 they can join any servers and there are servers with level 8-50. Notice the roookie servers prohibits levels above in this example level 7 to join it. So no more Pub-stomping John S****!. Make rules simple so it is EASY for rookies to understand the rules! This is also very important because it has to do with motivation!
Forums n stuff
#1 is not likely to be solved any time soon. Playercounts are going up but we don't know if they will stay there. Playercounts need to at least tripple if we are going to see any kind of difference with #1.
#2 is more manageable in what can be done but still not easy. How do you make it easier for high skilled players to join the same server. Playnow already tries to group them together. They have arrows on the server browser to show which serves have more skilled people. Gathers exist and are used. Veteran servers already exist and are used. So what else can be done? I really don't know. I just know veteran servers are not a solution.
What ghoul said with, "The ultimate goal would be including a matchmaking and league system ( cooperating with the ensl ) into NS2. So we have environments for all players to have fun and exciting rounds." might be the only real solution but I doubt it will completely solve the problem.
This game is so complex that I don't honestly see a way that you'd be able to automate or autopilot the growth of the NS2 community without proper individuals communities in place. As a former admin over at TG, I worked constantly to facilitate a friendly yet competitive atmosphere that would grow our TG community. We'd have new players show up all the time of various skill levels and really the only way to get the veterans and new players to cooperate with each other was to teach tolerance and patience of every skill level.
Our community grew to such levels that I created and hosted a highly popular weekly event called Captain's Night. It was an event designated for higher skilled competition within our own community and targeted at those that wanted to elevate their gameplay. This struck a good balance of normal pub play during the week and a focused/targeted weekly night within our community that was for more competitive players.
After my departure from the TG admin team, I tried moving my skills to another server along with the higher skilled players from that community. Needless to say that the more competitive the players got, the more work was involved and I eventually got burned out from running such a community very quickly.
My outlook on the subject is that only through tolerance and patience at all levels of skill will the NS2 community grow to healthier levels of longevity; most of which can only be done with communities actively filled with respectful players and leadership teams in place.
There would only be cancerous rookie wastelands and never a pub for over 1000 hour player to play. I would smurf in this system since I wouldnt be able to play pubs at all otherwise.
You don't have enough players for this
While its great to have players investing time and money to host servers and stuff on one side every community wants to grow and survive so they hosting muliple server for example wich can kill other communitys on the other side.
Sometimes it looks like there own little community is more important for some people than NS2 itself.
I read so many posts in the past like "This change will kill my community"
Well, if a change is successfull with bringing and holding new players to the game, who cares about a community that might lose some players to whatever reason.
And the same people who wants matchmaking, dont want neutral hosted servers by UWE to maintain this feature.
With the current community based servers we will NEVER have matchmaking.
Which is an extremely good thing. Matchmaking is like the cancer of online gaming.
Community servers with their admins, rules, communities, and most importantly the option to choose the game you join... They're a billion times better than even the best matchmaking system. (especially since matchmaking actually encourages trolling, harassment, racism, cheating, etc.)
To be honest to a certain extent I agree with @MoFo1 on this one, long gone are the days where you could load up a traditional server browser and select the server you want to be on, brings me back to my first real competitive game - Alien vs Predator 2, man that game was built on communities.
In short I think the best solution at the moment is to keep it to rookie only and casual servers, alot of server hosters have more than one server currently at the moment, you only have to load up NS2 to see that, why don't communities just have 1 of each, 1 rookie only, 1 casual.
Wooza currently does this now, he could easily change his rookie friendly to rookie only and the impact would be minimal, he already implemented 10 spec slots before this new patch came out.
Just don't call them anything, they are simply the normal servers.
That makes too much sense. We need to complicate it.
Casual is merely an expression, it's not a concrete term for it, try not to take it so literal.
Its yet undetermined if such a system would be used, or if it's too late for something like that to work given the playerbase size.
Also people like their community servers.
Thus the amount of time and effort that could be put into creating this might not be worth it. But really, every time this is decided against, it's odds of ever being decided for decrease. So it's a self-defeating cycle...
None of the rookies noticed or gave a shit. We were basically in a 1v1, but without even trying to win.
I've never seen that many rookies speak up st once after a game about how much they enjoyed themselves. I didn't friend any if them and I'll never know if any kept playing. But I'm glad they got to play in a round like that, even though it was artificial. Single player games offer artificial experiences all the time so i don't think its a problem.
But, we both fucking hated it and stopped playing after that game. Just interesting that neither of us quit. I remember Foxxx joined my team at some point, he was being toxic, so I just shat on him a little in the rookies defense, I think it was appreciated that he should stfu snd play for fun or leave.
Tactical freedom was such a fun server ladt year before it died to no rookies
Most vet players (from what I've seen) just want to enjoy the game. Nothing is less enjoyable (for most) than stacked/unbalanced games, which captains games are very good at fixing (better than any shuffle formula).
A basic interface already exists somewhere.
I would really suggest the 3 server types to be:
Rookie Only - "L2P Rookie"
Standard - "Join the herd of Cats!"
Captains - "ITS GO TIME"
Should definitely include captains mode for vet servers, had so much fun with them even on a normal pub server just nominating two captains then both of them take turns picking which player they want. fun!
For the math part, the skill variance is just the standard deviation of hive skill on the server.
In my experience playing ns2 I have seen the variance range from 400-800 which is really quite high. A low variance makes it more likely to have more balanced matches.
The bottom 25% of hive skill ends at 998, and the top 25% begins at 1560. for players with over 100 hours This means that 50% of ns2's playerbase is between 998-1560 hive skill.
So I did a little experiment. I made 100 groups of 18 players with random skill values between 998 and 1560.
The minimum minimum skill variance was 117, and maximum was 212. The average skill variance was 161.
161 is a lot lower than the 400-800 variance I have seen on any given server.
So theoretically, if a server operator made a server that only allowed players between 998 and 1560 hive skill with forced shuffle would have the most balances games in ns2.
By limiting it to just that range of 998-1560 you would be preventing the least skilled and the most skilled players in ns2 from playing at that server.
I think there are some serious issues with segregation, but if a server operator were to do it this would be how.