It looks like most wrecks are finished but not the fragment spawning boxes and procedures. I hope the new fragment tech will be in place with the scanner room update, but it looks like mid to end of april until these will get placed properly and satisfying. I'm starting to get sick of searching for nothing and random rains of tech.
And no sign of key tech guidance through radio, signals or pda's so far. I mean there is a certain key chain of exploration tech:
Base Power (Goodby Lifepod, no guidance but found in wrecks near lifepod)
Seamoth (Far Map Exploration, pda's in wrecks or bases show you seamoth fragment locations)
Scanner Room (Map guided exploration, radio or pda leads you to tech locations)
Moonpool & Upgrades (Deep Map Exploration, radio or pda links to global map on scanner room)
Cyclops & Exosuit (data keys found in the deep give you Aurora access and locations of sunken subs in Lost River and ILZ)
From what I've experienced recently the majority of the wrecks closest to your life pod seem to be finished. Granted the spawn rate of the fragments is a bit ridiculous, where some wrecks are filled to the brim with fragments in so much that you can complete several key pieces (such as solar panels, sea glide, moon pool, modification station, desk, chair, thermal plant) and have so many more fragments to scan you essentially end up farming a ridiculous amount of titanium.
In my last experimental run the wreck closest to the heat geyser gave me enough fragments for a solar panel, sea glide, the flood light, desk and chair so I could build a small solar powered base.
The grand reef wreck had the moon pool, some more seamoth fragments, thermal plant and other miscs like more desks, benches and chairs, so you could begin a thermal base since the heat vents are nearby.
Also the few wrecks I've explored in the latest experimental build. I've noticed that the shallow wrecks can be fully explored without the need for laser cutting doors. You CAN laser cut doors as a shortcut, but it isn't required. The wrecks deeper like grand reef you MUST laser cut to get to other sections where needed fragments lay.
TL;DR: I do believe the devs are very much aware of how they need to distribute pieces to make survival challenging but not frustrating. The wrecks seem to hold pertinent fragments that can be used efficiently in the corresponding biome. The spawn rate I'm sure can be easily fixed so wrecks aren't full to the brim with fragments.
Lets face it. Wrecks, fragments and such seem to be about 80% done. A few minor tweaks and adjustments needed but I can see where the Devs push this now to maybe a non critical item for a possible April update.
Yeah the Wrecks are about done i think so too. All that really needs to be adjusted is how the fragments in them are assigned. We really need more fragments in wrecks closer to the lifepod so the player can find a powersource for his/her first base in about an hour or 2 of gameplay (in my opinion within the first 2 hours of gameplay the Lifepod's fabricator can easily do the job).
The real frustration is to open doors with the laser cutter and find nothing. Just make sure at least one decent fragments is behind them and that'll already be better
Yeah the Wrecks are about done i think so too. All that really needs to be adjusted is how the fragments in them are assigned. We really need more fragments in wrecks closer to the lifepod so the player can find a powersource for his/her first base in about an hour or 2 of gameplay (in my opinion within the first 2 hours of gameplay the Lifepod's fabricator can easily do the job).
The real frustration is to open doors with the laser cutter and find nothing. Just make sure at least one decent fragments is behind them and that'll already be better
They also need a level classification for the fragments and inside-wreck-chambers. Because I (and probably most others) don't want to see a cyclops engine fragment lying around the wreck, then entering the wreck labyrinth to find a seamoth fragment inside a deeper wreck chamber with a sealed door and finally, when I cut through that sealed door finding a 3rd plant pot behind. It's just the opposite: Some lesser valuable outside, more valuable inside and most valuable locked.
The question would be what's valuable? I'd suggest a list going from most useless to most useful:
decoration stuff (pots, frames, desk, ...)
base tech (bio/solar tech, seaglide, prop gun, ...)
better diving tech (seamoth, rebreather, rad suit, mod station, ...)
Also several blueprints unlock as soon as you pick up an item that it's in the recipe. So for example you pick up magnitite(sp?) and you can now build a compass
I really wish they'd fix this. A few recipes behaving this way isn't helpful and doesn't make sense.
It's nice you're working on this list, but the fact it's here is indicative of the fact the new system still has issues and isn't any better. I hope somewhere in the next month they do a better job of spreading them out and/or adding in more wrecks. There needs to be things you gather in every biome and that you find encourage you to go to the next. That means things around where you start, and things in the biomes around them, as opposed to currently where there's giant caches of them out in places you otherwise wouldn't know to go if you hadn't already played a previous version of the game.
I just hope they consider this from the new player perspective - i.e. not just listen to the feedback of their super experienced players on experimental who know exactly where everything is. IMO new players either need to start with solar panel or bio-reactor and external planter. Or those all need to be easily acquired from eg. a seabase in the safe shallows which our handy PDA directs us to.
I don't mind so much the more advanced tech being restricted to wrecks. If nothing else it is more realistic. IMO once I have power + food+ seamoth + moonpool I consider myself set. Actually with this update I'd even consider the moonpool non-essential since batteries are now much easier to make.
I just hope they consider this from the new player perspective - i.e. not just listen to the feedback of their super experienced players on experimental who know exactly where everything is. IMO new players either need to start with solar panel or bio-reactor and external planter. Or those all need to be easily acquired from eg. a seabase in the safe shallows which our handy PDA directs us to.
I don't mind so much the more advanced tech being restricted to wrecks. If nothing else it is more realistic. IMO once I have power + food+ seamoth + moonpool I consider myself set. Actually with this update I'd even consider the moonpool non-essential since batteries are now much easier to make.
Super experienced player on experimental: We all know very soon where to find the latest tech no matter how hard hidden. But I remember the times I searched the tech and even didn't know what was really necessary to expand the game. So from these memories:
Relocating to your own base is very important, so solar panels or bioreactor is most urgent for that. But I remember that you can get really lost in the shallows or creepvine areas as a beginner (you start with a great disorientation comparing it to the map experienced player). You could search many ingame days for certain things without finding them if placed too sparsely. The bioreactor needs a component from the shroom trees that a beginner could miss to find for a long time if not being very lucky in finding them or with their lifepod placed directly near that forest, so it couldn't be really used for begin.
The next important step in driving map explorations were the seaglide, rebreather, the radiation suit and the seamoth & mobile vehicle bay for building. They allowed diving deep and exploring the whole map world, including the Aurora area. Before farming the survival pace was great and you needed the stillsuit or the filtration machine. With farming it's now simply the big aquarium for a quick start if you realize that the fish breed. The next exploration help that's coming will be the scanner room.
The final tech as a beginner was the moonpool together with the seamoth upgrade station. It allows you to reach almost all places in the game. But it was hidden far away and you needed map knowledge to get it.
Now my advice:
solar panel tech is true beginners tech and needs to be close around your lifepod (max 200m away and not hidden too deep).
bioreactor must need shallow & creepvine biome components or it's no beginners power tech.
without the seamoth it's hard to expand the search range for beginners, so seamoth tech either is near to be found or a location to be revealed by messages.
unless we get battery and cell recharge or the moonpool, the beginner might hesitate to use the seaglide and seamoth, thus restricting early exploration.
you won't risk dying just out of curiosity unless you're the pro who knows what and where to get. So we need randomizations to cut pro knowledge and messages to reveal locations to improve beginners knowledge.
So we need randomizations to cut pro knowledge and messages to reveal locations to improve beginners knowledge.
IMHO, randomization is essential to keep the game interesting for multiple play-throughs. Given the current design of fragments found in wrecks, that means the location of wrecks needs to be randomized. Not just the fragments inside being semi-randomized as at present, but the wrecks themselves.
This is substantially harder to do, to ensure a wreck dropped randomly somewhere within a given biome ends up in a position and orientation so it's accessible by the player. And there may be other problems, like ensuring Creepvines are automatically cleared out of the random wreck location so they don't clip through the wreck.
But without this sort of randomization, the game will become stale too quickly. A list like the one above will appear on the net and everybody knows to go to A, pick up X & Y, then go to B, etc. >yawn<
To me, the backbone of this game is exploration. Every design decision should support that.
I'm a little worried by what I've seen of the upcoming Map Room. I haven't used it yet, but it appears to pinpoint various items without the player having to actually go out and explore an area. There was even talk of having it pinpoint wreck locations. Not sure if that made the cut or not, but again, it seems to go against the goal of having the player out there directly experiencing the wonderful world the devs have put together.
So we need randomizations to cut pro knowledge and messages to reveal locations to improve beginners knowledge.
IMHO, randomization is essential to keep the game interesting for multiple play-throughs. Given the current design of fragments found in wrecks, that means the location of wrecks needs to be randomized. Not just the fragments inside being semi-randomized as at present, but the wrecks themselves.
This is substantially harder to do, to ensure a wreck dropped randomly somewhere within a given biome ends up in a position and orientation so it's accessible by the player. And there may be other problems, like ensuring Creepvines are automatically cleared out of the random wreck location so they don't clip through the wreck.
But without this sort of randomization, the game will become stale too quickly. A list like the one above will appear on the net and everybody knows to go to A, pick up X & Y, then go to B, etc. >yawn<
To me, the backbone of this game is exploration. Every design decision should support that.
I'm a little worried by what I've seen of the upcoming Map Room. I haven't used it yet, but it appears to pinpoint various items without the player having to actually go out and explore an area. There was even talk of having it pinpoint wreck locations. Not sure if that made the cut or not, but again, it seems to go against the goal of having the player out there directly experiencing the wonderful world the devs have put together.
The devs of this game decided to make a hand-made map thats the same everytime you start a new game. The biomes are always at the same place and i suspect even the ressources are always at the same place (not 100% sure on the ressources but im fairly sure) so considering that, having Big Wrecks spawning in random places seems like it wont happen.
On the other hand, they seem to have decided to go on randomized placement for where fragments will spawn, all that determined by what you have discovered so far .... so im not sure anymore lol Im not speaking as if i know anything for sure, im just trying to figure out what they will go for in the future, like everyone else
solar panel tech is true beginners tech and needs to be close around your lifepod (max 200m away and not hidden too deep).
Thinking about it some more I've actually done a 180 on solar panels. Ironically I think I fell into that trap I mentioned.
I had a difficult start in one new game recently where it took forever to get them. Because my first instinct based on previous plays was to build a base ASAP and that was easy to do. Without power I was reliant on the lifepod for a while and I wonder if this is by design. It's not actually more difficult. It just requires a different approach. Build a few of those new waterpoof lockers and you have storage. You can even start farming without power. Outside at least (and presently inside but that will change). So I don't think it is critical to have solar panels soon.
bioreactor must need shallow & creepvine biome components or it's no beginners power tech.
The need for tree mushroom sample always struck me as discordant. It's meant to be a green / hippie-dippie technology but we have to destroy their non-respawning, finite hand-crafted environment to do it. So I never used bioreactors. I did notice in the wiki recently though that the component had been changed to fungal sample and now drops from jelly plants. That means you can get the components in the safe shallows and they're farmable.
without the seamoth it's hard to expand the search range for beginners, so seamoth tech either is near to be found or a location to be revealed by messages.
Very much disagree. The introduction of the medkit machine in the lifepod means it's much less of a hassle if you get hurt. Accordingly swimming around - without seaglide or seamoth - in the early biomes (safe shallows, kelp) and getting bitten occasionally was completely fine. Also not too bad in some red grass spots. The seamoth is extremely helpful (love it) but not actually necessary for a lot of stuff.
unless we get battery and cell recharge or the moonpool, the beginner might hesitate to use the seaglide and seamoth, thus restricting early exploration.
I think this has changed radically. The battery situation used to be painful but copper is now the only non-farmable component of batteries and power cells. It's plentiful and not used for much else. The power consumption on even the cyclops seems manageable now. I certainly had no problems early on and even later wasn't bothered by it.
you won't risk dying just out of curiosity unless you're the pro who knows what and where to get. So we need randomizations to cut pro knowledge and messages to reveal locations to improve beginners knowledge.
Agreed.
For replayability - and most of us here have replayed it a lot - randomization would be great. And it would mean you can't just open the wiki to see that blueprint / fragment X is in a particular wreck. It would be more realistic. You'd have to explore wrecks one at a time and get what you get. I'd find that much more enjoyable.
The biomes are always at the same place and i suspect even the ressources are always at the same place (not 100% sure on the ressources but im fairly sure)...
FYI I tested this (about a year ago) and resource nodes seem to be semi-random. There are set locations where they can spawn and each game randomly spawns so many of them in an area.
Easiest place to see this is in the big coral tubes in the safe shallows which have numerous nodes close together. From just outside screenshot it. Start a new game, go to same place, screenshot again. You should see differences but some nodes might be in exactly the same spots, which if purely random would be extremely unlikely.
So we need randomizations to cut pro knowledge and messages to reveal locations to improve beginners knowledge.
IMHO, randomization is essential to keep the game interesting for multiple play-throughs. Given the current design of fragments found in wrecks, that means the location of wrecks needs to be randomized. Not just the fragments inside being semi-randomized as at present, but the wrecks themselves.
This is substantially harder to do, to ensure a wreck dropped randomly somewhere within a given biome ends up in a position and orientation so it's accessible by the player. And there may be other problems, like ensuring Creepvines are automatically cleared out of the random wreck location so they don't clip through the wreck.
But without this sort of randomization, the game will become stale too quickly. A list like the one above will appear on the net and everybody knows to go to A, pick up X & Y, then go to B, etc. >yawn<
To me, the backbone of this game is exploration. Every design decision should support that.
I'm a little worried by what I've seen of the upcoming Map Room. I haven't used it yet, but it appears to pinpoint various items without the player having to actually go out and explore an area. There was even talk of having it pinpoint wreck locations. Not sure if that made the cut or not, but again, it seems to go against the goal of having the player out there directly experiencing the wonderful world the devs have put together.
If we're talking about survival mode, than it's not enough to know all wreck locations. Because it's useless to know where the hand placed koosh wreck is if you haven't found the tech in the other wrecks to make successful dives if the fragments there are placed properly deep within it and still radiated.
So essentially (if you get what I mean) you would need to know the order of travelling your wrecks to have success and unlock the proper chain of tech to be able to get to the next one. That's managable if proper done. If you have 26 wrecks labelled through the alphabet, it could mean that a proper success needs wreck sequence of discovery F-Z-T-Q-B or X-C-W-H-J to finally get your seamoth upgrade tech. And those sequences randomized might mean that you'd have to search all wrecks without knowing where to start each time. The wrecks are also made modular for placement and if the devs create 100 wrecks from 20 templates/prototypes while putting only 20 of those 100 locations actually into the game you'd have no advantage knowing all possible 100 locations of actually 20 existing ones. Final judgement: It's managable for programmers.
The issue of revealing locations through the scanner room map display and huds is that to improve only beginners knowledge. The problem is to distinguish from beginners and pros, and to distinguish from fans and casual players. The devs could handle this problem with fixing their game modes. I think the pros and fans would rather play a hard survival or hardcore, while the casual players are more like beginners and favor a mild survival with a lot of exploration and fun. A hard survival mode could cut beginners info out of the game functions, like disallowing exact hud info for scanner data, while the soft survival mode would allow exact data. Pros wouldn't like to play soft survival and beginners probably start with soft survival and get more info. So beginners get exploration advantage, while pros still need to search, but both can enjoy the scanner room (No, I'm aware of hardcore and freedom mode which don't address this at all). On the other side, if infos are revealed by pda messages or just 3d map pictures, the beginner immediately gets partial pro knowledge without the pro getting too much data.
In any case it's a question of proper game modes and the devs haven't really handled that well. My suggestion for good game modes:
Creative Mode: Good as it is, but food and water should allow to be created and consumed for fun.
Casual Survival (Exploration Mode): Lowered rates for hunger, thirst & O2. Faster regen of health & power. No health loss to decompression. Lesser aggresive animals and attack range. Longer days and shorter nights. AI giving you warnings and advices. Farming rates as is. Tools use less energy. Scanner room supplies all data. Easy navigation controls for seamoth and cyclops. Generally speaking the mode favors and supports exploration and building, while still allowing feeling survival needs and without cutting them completely off. As most players start as beginners and casual players are the mass, this mode should be standart.
Hard Survival (Dive Hard Mode): Rates for hunger, thirst & O2 as is. Lowered regen of health & power. Decompression looses health. One Live only. Medkits need time to work. Higher creature aggression with longer range and leviathans roam the sea. AI only gives immediate alerts. Farming grow rates lowered and needs energy for keeping aquariums and growbeds. Every tool uses energy and some very much. Scanner room suplies no exact hud location, only 3d map and it's impossible to scan resources that haven't been analyzed through hand scanner (that means you can only locate fragments after scanning the first of a type). Simmy sub piloting for seamoth and cyclops. Generally speaking the mode favors dive hard fans and makes exploration and building as well as survival a challenge.
Useless modes as they are now:
Freedom: All food and thirst items are cut out of the game, so it can't be crafted. But who complains he died from hunger when it's okay to die from lack of O2? A child asked me to be able to eat and drink, because it seemed to be fun to do, but it didn't like taking care of breathing. WTF, the devs would think, but it's a child's mind. Eating and drinking isn't so much a problem than breathing, what a miracle ... So here my suggestion: turn it into Child Mode: Eating & drinking for fun, the rest like creators mode or with child appropriate rates. But certainly with the story.
Hardcore: No alerts in a high tech world, really? Only difference to survival seems permadeath. Not much difference. Wasted.
Just a tiny update. Looks like the latest update forced me into yet another new game (not that I mind, was planning to restart anyways) and it seems now that some vital first fragments (solar panel, seaglide so far) are now scattered on the safe shallows very close to the life pod but not so close that it annoys
Just a tiny update. Looks like the latest update forced me into yet another new game (not that I mind, was planning to restart anyways) and it seems now that some vital first fragments (solar panel, seaglide so far) are now scattered on the safe shallows very close to the life pod but not so close that it annoys
In order to tell if you were just lucky or if its a reproduce'able thing, you'd have to start many times and look if its like that everytime Otherwise, well, like i said just might have gotten lucky lol
But its possible it was intented as theyre working on the fragment system still im sure.
Just a tiny update. Looks like the latest update forced me into yet another new game (not that I mind, was planning to restart anyways) and it seems now that some vital first fragments (solar panel, seaglide so far) are now scattered on the safe shallows very close to the life pod but not so close that it annoys
Same thing for me. First blueprint I finished was solar panel, followed by the seaglide, both of which were fragments in the safe shallows. Two of those fragments were near a lifepod, but the others were just randomly scattered nearby. Same for the mobile vehicle bay in the kelp forest. Along with a random water filtration fragment there as well.
Was very happy to see the inclusion of some random fragments not tied directly to the wrecks in the update. They're rare enough that you can't depend on them to finish blueprints, but it's a nice reward to go poking around.
I had a similar experience. Found some fragments lying around, to be honest almost as many as I found in wrecks. About half of the wrecks were empty. Moonpool and modification station were in no wreck but scattered. I found some really cool looking seamoth fragments that actually looked like a crashed Seamoth than a sunken safe lying around in the Grassy Plains.
I hit a strange bug, though. Everytime I opened a sealed door with the laser cutter, the door glitched and the part of the door that was supposed to fall through got stuck, blocking the door. That didn't make the game easier... And another glitch discovered through frustration: the laser cutter works even if it has no energy. :-) (Please don'r fix it! :-) )
KlinnLost in a caveJoin Date: 2016-03-09Member: 214022Members
edited April 2016
Yup, those sealed doors staying blocked is annoying, but I assume it's because the devs are getting ready to spring some wonderful items behind them!
Some other changes I've noticed -- SeaMoth fragments only in the Grassy Plateaus biome so far (wrecks & on sea floor), and MoonPool fragments and Cyclops Bridge fragments in the Mushroom Forest biome. Edit: some scanner room fragments too, but still can't be scanned.
And lifepod #17 has finally made an appearance! (wreck #22) Still empty, I assume it will have a PDA or something in it later with story-related details.
I think the technology progression versus difficulty (depth) is much better now.
I hit a strange bug, though. Everytime I opened a sealed door with the laser cutter, the door glitched and the part of the door that was supposed to fall through got stuck, blocking the door. That didn't make the game easier... And another glitch discovered through frustration: the laser cutter works even if it has no energy. :-) (Please don'r fix it! :-) )
I also experienced the whole door stuck after cutting it. Even tried swimming at it and ramming myself into it with no success. But like it was mentioned, its probably cause the devs are getting ready to spring an update on that
KlinnLost in a caveJoin Date: 2016-03-09Member: 214022Members
edited April 2016
Blueprint fragments are now found in and around wrecks as well as on the sea floor. Below is a list of the typical locations where you can find fragments. You probably will have to start a new game to see all of these. The auto-updating of an older save may not produce the same results.
Please remember that this list is based on observation, not examining actual game code, and that future experimental builds can change things on a moment's notice. In other words, YMMV.
============================================================
Subnautica Wrecks, Lifepods, and Blueprint Fragments
------------------------------------------------------------
As of Experimental Build 31239 (April 7)
============================================================
Notes
-----
1) Fragments are found both in wrecks and scattered on the sea bed. Lifepods
do not have any fragments, but may contain supply chests.
2) You may have to begin a new game to see these fragments. Older save games,
whether stable or experimental, may not be completely updated automatically.
3) Blueprint fragments are semi-randomly generated. A wreck will tend to have
fragments of specific types, and will tend to include ones for blueprints
you have not already completed, but the exact types and quantities will vary
from one game to the next. There can even be no fragments at all.
4) Fragments *may* respawn eventually, players have reported mixed results.
5) A laser cutter is required to reach some rooms in wrecks, primarily those
beyond the Safe Shallows. In some wrecks you can find an alternate route to
a blocked room via shafts.
6) A light source such a flare or flashlight is very useful to spot fragments.
7) Fragments for furnishings and lights are not listed, they can be found in
many different wrecks.
8) Sometimes supply chests can be found around the wreck or lifepod.
Biome Typical Fragments Found Wrecks Coordinates
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Safe Shallows | SeaGlide | Wreck12 | 85 -40 113
| Solar Panel | Wreck13 | -150 -20 -227
| | Wreck14 | 160 -27 -253
| | Wreck15 | -33 -25 -398
| | Wreck16 | 343 -16 -190
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Kelp Forest | Bioreactor | Wreck17 | 64 -24 376
| Mobile Vehicle Bay | Wreck18 | -317 -73 222
| SeaGlide | Wreck19 | -374 -74 296
| Solar Panel | Wreck20 | 305 -53 -319
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Grassy Plateaus | Bioreactor | Wreck1 | 286 -74 444
| Cyclops Hull | Wreck2 | -627 -56 -7
| Mobile Vehicle Bay | |
| Propulsion Cannon | |
| SeaMoth | |
| Water Filtration | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Mushroom Forest | Cyclops Bridge | Wreck9 | -644 -95 784
| Cyclops Hull | |
| MoonPool | |
| Power Transmitter | |
| Scanner Room (can't scan) | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
SeaTreaderPath | Cyclops Bridge | Wreck7 |-1174 -148 -744
| Cyclops Hull | |
| Nuclear Reactor | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
UnderwaterIslands | Cyclops Engine | Wreck4 | -100 -177 881
| Modification Station | |
| Propulsion Cannon | |
| Stasis Rifle | |
| Terraformer | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Koosh Zone | Modification Station | Wreck3 | 940 -198 593
| MoonPool | |
| Seamoth Upgrade Console | |
| Water Filtration | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Mountains | Cyclops Engine | Wreck5 | 697 -331 1207
| Power Transmitter | |
| Seamoth Upgrade Console | |
| Terraformer | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Dunes | Cyclops Bridge | Wreck6 |-1448 -332 723
| Scanner Room | |
| Thermal Plant | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Grand Reef | Cyclops Pressure Compensator| Wreck10 | -283 -222 -784
| MoonPool | Wreck11 | -896 -408-1435
| Thermal Plant | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
BloodKelp Trench | Cyclops Pressure Compensator| Wreck8 |-1208 -332 -390
| Nuclear Reactor | |
-------------------+-----------------------------+---------+----------------
Biome Lifepods Coordinates
-------------------+----------------------+----------------
Safe Shallows | Wreck21 = Lifepod#12 | 85 -40 113
| Wreck22 = Lifepod#17 | -151 -1 -404
| Wreck24 = Lifepod#3 | 314 -36 -112
| Wreck25 = Lifepod#4 | 75 -28 -95
-------------------+----------------------+----------------
Kelp Forest | Wreck23 = Lifepod#19 | -261 -68 5
| Wreck26 = Lifepod#13 | 263 -54 -430
-------------------+----------------------+----------------
Tip: You can display your current coordinates by pressing F1. They are
listed as the "Camera World Position".
Edit: Added fragments found in BloodKelp Trench wreck as of build 31310 (April 8).
If you experience different results, please post them, but be sure to specify what build you are playing and whether you started the game fresh from that build.
I hit a strange bug, though. Everytime I opened a sealed door with the laser cutter, the door glitched and the part of the door that was supposed to fall through got stuck, blocking the door. That didn't make the game easier... And another glitch discovered through frustration: the laser cutter works even if it has no energy. :-) (Please don'r fix it! :-) )
I also experienced the whole door stuck after cutting it. Even tried swimming at it and ramming myself into it with no success. But like it was mentioned, its probably cause the devs are getting ready to spring an update on that
This is actually a bug. There's a thread in the bug section that a dev replied to. It's being worked on thankfully.
Some players have had success with saving the game, then reloading, and the blockage is gone.
Unfortunately when I tried that it didn't work. Oh well.
The Warp cheat works quite well dealing with these blockages. However, cheating to progress through a certain point in the game is bad game design and always should be fixed ASAP. Of course, this is one of the risks of playing on Experimental so it doesn't have the same problem as other games.
KlinnLost in a caveJoin Date: 2016-03-09Member: 214022Members
Heh-heh, I thought about using the Warp command to bypass a blockage, but figured I would do the math wrong and end up embedded in a bulkhead or something.
I really wish we could get something from the other lifepods. Even if it's just a single first aid kit that never replenishes because the pod has no power. Or a nutrient bar if the locker hasn't already fallen open.
You know what else has always struck me? Those lifepods seem awful big to hold only two people. You'd think that Alterra Corp could have fit either six to eight of those jump seats in there, or two real crash/acceleration couches. And I also can't help thinking that with floor panels and the fire extinguisher coming loose and flying about the pod, maybe it's no surprise there appear to be no other survivors. (Though it probably took more than a loose fire extinguisher to blow gaping holes in the sides of the pods. Was someone or something pot-shotting lifepods as they came down?)
It'd be nice to be able to explore a bit more of the Aurora at some point as well. It is a huge wreck to have just one explorable room and a few treacherous corridors to reach it. Even making allowances for the front half of the ship having been blown to pieces.
You know what else has always struck me? Those lifepods seem awful big to hold only two people. You'd think that Alterra Corp could have fit either six to eight of those jump seats in there, or two real crash/acceleration couches.
Cramming as many people as possible wouldn't be the only consideration. Smaller lifepods accessible directly from sleeping compartments would have some advantages.
How many people sleep in a typical room on the ship? How quickly would you want them off the ship in the event of an emergency? Do you want them running around madly in the corridors tripping over each other or do you just want them gone as quickly as possible?
Even in common workspaces, smaller lifepods would have the advantage of time. If a lifepod holds 8 people and you only have 4 on board, how long do you wait? Every moment you do potentially spells your doom but if everyone left in half-empty lifepods maybe they'd be dooming a large proportion of the crew. Two-seaters would be better in that respect and might result in more crew surviving.
You know what else has always struck me? Those lifepods seem awful big to hold only two people. You'd think that Alterra Corp could have fit either six to eight of those jump seats in there, or two real crash/acceleration couches.
Cramming as many people as possible wouldn't be the only consideration. Smaller lifepods accessible directly from sleeping compartments would have some advantages.
How many people sleep in a typical room on the ship? How quickly would you want them off the ship in the event of an emergency? Do you want them running around madly in the corridors tripping over each other or do you just want them gone as quickly as possible?
Even in common workspaces, smaller lifepods would have the advantage of time. If a lifepod holds 8 people and you only have 4 on board, how long do you wait? Every moment you do potentially spells your doom but if everyone left in half-empty lifepods maybe they'd be dooming a large proportion of the crew. Two-seaters would be better in that respect and might result in more crew surviving.
That's not the reason. There's a simple one. Programming effectiveness towards what you want. Singleplayer game means you can't go with other survivors or you'd need more intro and animations with fellows in the lifepod starving. So best solution is this one with a logic flaw of single lifepods. Minimal artwork and most players forgive you, while some even find reasons for the logic flaws ...
Sorry Halios, but it's simple in real life with lifeboats on modern cruisers. Lifeboats have to be redundant in capacity unless in the good old dirty titanic times with greedy ship owners and less places available than people aboard. You don't have to defend a logic flaw. You can just accept that creativity needs a few loopholes for the greater good.
You don't have to defend a logic flaw. You can just accept that creativity needs a few loopholes for the greater good.
a) I don't think it is a logic flaw. Just because current day seafaring vessels tend to have lifeboats which accommodate more people doesn't mean that's what would be best on a spaceship. Space is a much more hostile environment than the ocean.
b) I'm not defending the dev's decision on this. I'm totally indifferent on the issue of lifepod size and I doubt they gave it much thought. I'm just pointing out that there could be all sorts of good reasons why the lifepods only seat two.
I had a strange experience with fragments yesterday.
I've started over half a dozen games this (stable) build and each time I went to the grand reef for the moonpool and was able to get it (plus all the other frags) along the edge of the biome. Fairly quick and easy. Then one game I couldn't. I ran the usual route and only found 1 pressure regular and several nuclear reactor frags. So I exited the game and started again (knowing it reloads stuff) and again very few frags. I ended up parking above the wreck (which has frags) and exiting / reloading to complete the moonpool.
Apart from making me wonder about how the game distributes fragments, I have to see posts complaining about not being able to find certain fragments in a new light. Seems not every new game is created equal in this respect.
Comments
And no sign of key tech guidance through radio, signals or pda's so far. I mean there is a certain key chain of exploration tech:
In my last experimental run the wreck closest to the heat geyser gave me enough fragments for a solar panel, sea glide, the flood light, desk and chair so I could build a small solar powered base.
The grand reef wreck had the moon pool, some more seamoth fragments, thermal plant and other miscs like more desks, benches and chairs, so you could begin a thermal base since the heat vents are nearby.
Also the few wrecks I've explored in the latest experimental build. I've noticed that the shallow wrecks can be fully explored without the need for laser cutting doors. You CAN laser cut doors as a shortcut, but it isn't required. The wrecks deeper like grand reef you MUST laser cut to get to other sections where needed fragments lay.
TL;DR: I do believe the devs are very much aware of how they need to distribute pieces to make survival challenging but not frustrating. The wrecks seem to hold pertinent fragments that can be used efficiently in the corresponding biome. The spawn rate I'm sure can be easily fixed so wrecks aren't full to the brim with fragments.
Lets face it. Wrecks, fragments and such seem to be about 80% done. A few minor tweaks and adjustments needed but I can see where the Devs push this now to maybe a non critical item for a possible April update.
The real frustration is to open doors with the laser cutter and find nothing. Just make sure at least one decent fragments is behind them and that'll already be better
They also need a level classification for the fragments and inside-wreck-chambers. Because I (and probably most others) don't want to see a cyclops engine fragment lying around the wreck, then entering the wreck labyrinth to find a seamoth fragment inside a deeper wreck chamber with a sealed door and finally, when I cut through that sealed door finding a 3rd plant pot behind. It's just the opposite: Some lesser valuable outside, more valuable inside and most valuable locked.
The question would be what's valuable? I'd suggest a list going from most useless to most useful:
I really wish they'd fix this. A few recipes behaving this way isn't helpful and doesn't make sense.
I just hope they consider this from the new player perspective - i.e. not just listen to the feedback of their super experienced players on experimental who know exactly where everything is. IMO new players either need to start with solar panel or bio-reactor and external planter. Or those all need to be easily acquired from eg. a seabase in the safe shallows which our handy PDA directs us to.
I don't mind so much the more advanced tech being restricted to wrecks. If nothing else it is more realistic. IMO once I have power + food+ seamoth + moonpool I consider myself set. Actually with this update I'd even consider the moonpool non-essential since batteries are now much easier to make.
Super experienced player on experimental: We all know very soon where to find the latest tech no matter how hard hidden. But I remember the times I searched the tech and even didn't know what was really necessary to expand the game. So from these memories:
Relocating to your own base is very important, so solar panels or bioreactor is most urgent for that. But I remember that you can get really lost in the shallows or creepvine areas as a beginner (you start with a great disorientation comparing it to the map experienced player). You could search many ingame days for certain things without finding them if placed too sparsely. The bioreactor needs a component from the shroom trees that a beginner could miss to find for a long time if not being very lucky in finding them or with their lifepod placed directly near that forest, so it couldn't be really used for begin.
The next important step in driving map explorations were the seaglide, rebreather, the radiation suit and the seamoth & mobile vehicle bay for building. They allowed diving deep and exploring the whole map world, including the Aurora area. Before farming the survival pace was great and you needed the stillsuit or the filtration machine. With farming it's now simply the big aquarium for a quick start if you realize that the fish breed. The next exploration help that's coming will be the scanner room.
The final tech as a beginner was the moonpool together with the seamoth upgrade station. It allows you to reach almost all places in the game. But it was hidden far away and you needed map knowledge to get it.
Now my advice:
This is substantially harder to do, to ensure a wreck dropped randomly somewhere within a given biome ends up in a position and orientation so it's accessible by the player. And there may be other problems, like ensuring Creepvines are automatically cleared out of the random wreck location so they don't clip through the wreck.
But without this sort of randomization, the game will become stale too quickly. A list like the one above will appear on the net and everybody knows to go to A, pick up X & Y, then go to B, etc. >yawn<
To me, the backbone of this game is exploration. Every design decision should support that.
I'm a little worried by what I've seen of the upcoming Map Room. I haven't used it yet, but it appears to pinpoint various items without the player having to actually go out and explore an area. There was even talk of having it pinpoint wreck locations. Not sure if that made the cut or not, but again, it seems to go against the goal of having the player out there directly experiencing the wonderful world the devs have put together.
The devs of this game decided to make a hand-made map thats the same everytime you start a new game. The biomes are always at the same place and i suspect even the ressources are always at the same place (not 100% sure on the ressources but im fairly sure) so considering that, having Big Wrecks spawning in random places seems like it wont happen.
On the other hand, they seem to have decided to go on randomized placement for where fragments will spawn, all that determined by what you have discovered so far .... so im not sure anymore lol Im not speaking as if i know anything for sure, im just trying to figure out what they will go for in the future, like everyone else
Thinking about it some more I've actually done a 180 on solar panels. Ironically I think I fell into that trap I mentioned.
I had a difficult start in one new game recently where it took forever to get them. Because my first instinct based on previous plays was to build a base ASAP and that was easy to do. Without power I was reliant on the lifepod for a while and I wonder if this is by design. It's not actually more difficult. It just requires a different approach. Build a few of those new waterpoof lockers and you have storage. You can even start farming without power. Outside at least (and presently inside but that will change). So I don't think it is critical to have solar panels soon.
The need for tree mushroom sample always struck me as discordant. It's meant to be a green / hippie-dippie technology but we have to destroy their non-respawning, finite hand-crafted environment to do it. So I never used bioreactors. I did notice in the wiki recently though that the component had been changed to fungal sample and now drops from jelly plants. That means you can get the components in the safe shallows and they're farmable.
Very much disagree. The introduction of the medkit machine in the lifepod means it's much less of a hassle if you get hurt. Accordingly swimming around - without seaglide or seamoth - in the early biomes (safe shallows, kelp) and getting bitten occasionally was completely fine. Also not too bad in some red grass spots. The seamoth is extremely helpful (love it) but not actually necessary for a lot of stuff.
I think this has changed radically. The battery situation used to be painful but copper is now the only non-farmable component of batteries and power cells. It's plentiful and not used for much else. The power consumption on even the cyclops seems manageable now. I certainly had no problems early on and even later wasn't bothered by it.
Agreed.
For replayability - and most of us here have replayed it a lot - randomization would be great. And it would mean you can't just open the wiki to see that blueprint / fragment X is in a particular wreck. It would be more realistic. You'd have to explore wrecks one at a time and get what you get. I'd find that much more enjoyable.
FYI I tested this (about a year ago) and resource nodes seem to be semi-random. There are set locations where they can spawn and each game randomly spawns so many of them in an area.
Easiest place to see this is in the big coral tubes in the safe shallows which have numerous nodes close together. From just outside screenshot it. Start a new game, go to same place, screenshot again. You should see differences but some nodes might be in exactly the same spots, which if purely random would be extremely unlikely.
If we're talking about survival mode, than it's not enough to know all wreck locations. Because it's useless to know where the hand placed koosh wreck is if you haven't found the tech in the other wrecks to make successful dives if the fragments there are placed properly deep within it and still radiated.
So essentially (if you get what I mean) you would need to know the order of travelling your wrecks to have success and unlock the proper chain of tech to be able to get to the next one. That's managable if proper done. If you have 26 wrecks labelled through the alphabet, it could mean that a proper success needs wreck sequence of discovery F-Z-T-Q-B or X-C-W-H-J to finally get your seamoth upgrade tech. And those sequences randomized might mean that you'd have to search all wrecks without knowing where to start each time. The wrecks are also made modular for placement and if the devs create 100 wrecks from 20 templates/prototypes while putting only 20 of those 100 locations actually into the game you'd have no advantage knowing all possible 100 locations of actually 20 existing ones. Final judgement: It's managable for programmers.
The issue of revealing locations through the scanner room map display and huds is that to improve only beginners knowledge. The problem is to distinguish from beginners and pros, and to distinguish from fans and casual players. The devs could handle this problem with fixing their game modes. I think the pros and fans would rather play a hard survival or hardcore, while the casual players are more like beginners and favor a mild survival with a lot of exploration and fun. A hard survival mode could cut beginners info out of the game functions, like disallowing exact hud info for scanner data, while the soft survival mode would allow exact data. Pros wouldn't like to play soft survival and beginners probably start with soft survival and get more info. So beginners get exploration advantage, while pros still need to search, but both can enjoy the scanner room (No, I'm aware of hardcore and freedom mode which don't address this at all). On the other side, if infos are revealed by pda messages or just 3d map pictures, the beginner immediately gets partial pro knowledge without the pro getting too much data.
In any case it's a question of proper game modes and the devs haven't really handled that well. My suggestion for good game modes:
Useless modes as they are now:
In order to tell if you were just lucky or if its a reproduce'able thing, you'd have to start many times and look if its like that everytime
But its possible it was intented as theyre working on the fragment system still im sure.
Same thing for me. First blueprint I finished was solar panel, followed by the seaglide, both of which were fragments in the safe shallows. Two of those fragments were near a lifepod, but the others were just randomly scattered nearby. Same for the mobile vehicle bay in the kelp forest. Along with a random water filtration fragment there as well.
Was very happy to see the inclusion of some random fragments not tied directly to the wrecks in the update. They're rare enough that you can't depend on them to finish blueprints, but it's a nice reward to go poking around.
I hit a strange bug, though. Everytime I opened a sealed door with the laser cutter, the door glitched and the part of the door that was supposed to fall through got stuck, blocking the door. That didn't make the game easier... And another glitch discovered through frustration: the laser cutter works even if it has no energy. :-) (Please don'r fix it! :-) )
Some other changes I've noticed -- SeaMoth fragments only in the Grassy Plateaus biome so far (wrecks & on sea floor), and MoonPool fragments and Cyclops Bridge fragments in the Mushroom Forest biome. Edit: some scanner room fragments too, but still can't be scanned.
And lifepod #17 has finally made an appearance! (wreck #22) Still empty, I assume it will have a PDA or something in it later with story-related details.
I think the technology progression versus difficulty (depth) is much better now.
I also experienced the whole door stuck after cutting it. Even tried swimming at it and ramming myself into it with no success. But like it was mentioned, its probably cause the devs are getting ready to spring an update on that
It will probably be best to arrange it by biome this time. I'm going to play a few brand new games to see what seems to consistently pop up where.
Please remember that this list is based on observation, not examining actual game code, and that future experimental builds can change things on a moment's notice. In other words, YMMV.
============================================================ Subnautica Wrecks, Lifepods, and Blueprint Fragments ------------------------------------------------------------ As of Experimental Build 31239 (April 7) ============================================================ Notes ----- 1) Fragments are found both in wrecks and scattered on the sea bed. Lifepods do not have any fragments, but may contain supply chests. 2) You may have to begin a new game to see these fragments. Older save games, whether stable or experimental, may not be completely updated automatically. 3) Blueprint fragments are semi-randomly generated. A wreck will tend to have fragments of specific types, and will tend to include ones for blueprints you have not already completed, but the exact types and quantities will vary from one game to the next. There can even be no fragments at all. 4) Fragments *may* respawn eventually, players have reported mixed results. 5) A laser cutter is required to reach some rooms in wrecks, primarily those beyond the Safe Shallows. In some wrecks you can find an alternate route to a blocked room via shafts. 6) A light source such a flare or flashlight is very useful to spot fragments. 7) Fragments for furnishings and lights are not listed, they can be found in many different wrecks. 8) Sometimes supply chests can be found around the wreck or lifepod. Biome Typical Fragments Found Wrecks Coordinates -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Safe Shallows | SeaGlide | Wreck12 | 85 -40 113 | Solar Panel | Wreck13 | -150 -20 -227 | | Wreck14 | 160 -27 -253 | | Wreck15 | -33 -25 -398 | | Wreck16 | 343 -16 -190 -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Kelp Forest | Bioreactor | Wreck17 | 64 -24 376 | Mobile Vehicle Bay | Wreck18 | -317 -73 222 | SeaGlide | Wreck19 | -374 -74 296 | Solar Panel | Wreck20 | 305 -53 -319 -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Grassy Plateaus | Bioreactor | Wreck1 | 286 -74 444 | Cyclops Hull | Wreck2 | -627 -56 -7 | Mobile Vehicle Bay | | | Propulsion Cannon | | | SeaMoth | | | Water Filtration | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Mushroom Forest | Cyclops Bridge | Wreck9 | -644 -95 784 | Cyclops Hull | | | MoonPool | | | Power Transmitter | | | Scanner Room (can't scan) | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- SeaTreaderPath | Cyclops Bridge | Wreck7 |-1174 -148 -744 | Cyclops Hull | | | Nuclear Reactor | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- UnderwaterIslands | Cyclops Engine | Wreck4 | -100 -177 881 | Modification Station | | | Propulsion Cannon | | | Stasis Rifle | | | Terraformer | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Koosh Zone | Modification Station | Wreck3 | 940 -198 593 | MoonPool | | | Seamoth Upgrade Console | | | Water Filtration | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Mountains | Cyclops Engine | Wreck5 | 697 -331 1207 | Power Transmitter | | | Seamoth Upgrade Console | | | Terraformer | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Dunes | Cyclops Bridge | Wreck6 |-1448 -332 723 | Scanner Room | | | Thermal Plant | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Grand Reef | Cyclops Pressure Compensator| Wreck10 | -283 -222 -784 | MoonPool | Wreck11 | -896 -408-1435 | Thermal Plant | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- BloodKelp Trench | Cyclops Pressure Compensator| Wreck8 |-1208 -332 -390 | Nuclear Reactor | | -------------------+-----------------------------+---------+---------------- Biome Lifepods Coordinates -------------------+----------------------+---------------- Safe Shallows | Wreck21 = Lifepod#12 | 85 -40 113 | Wreck22 = Lifepod#17 | -151 -1 -404 | Wreck24 = Lifepod#3 | 314 -36 -112 | Wreck25 = Lifepod#4 | 75 -28 -95 -------------------+----------------------+---------------- Kelp Forest | Wreck23 = Lifepod#19 | -261 -68 5 | Wreck26 = Lifepod#13 | 263 -54 -430 -------------------+----------------------+---------------- Tip: You can display your current coordinates by pressing F1. They are listed as the "Camera World Position".Edit: Added fragments found in BloodKelp Trench wreck as of build 31310 (April 8).
If you experience different results, please post them, but be sure to specify what build you are playing and whether you started the game fresh from that build.
This is actually a bug. There's a thread in the bug section that a dev replied to. It's being worked on thankfully.
Unfortunately when I tried that it didn't work. Oh well.
The Warp cheat works quite well dealing with these blockages. However, cheating to progress through a certain point in the game is bad game design and always should be fixed ASAP. Of course, this is one of the risks of playing on Experimental so it doesn't have the same problem as other games.
You know what else has always struck me? Those lifepods seem awful big to hold only two people. You'd think that Alterra Corp could have fit either six to eight of those jump seats in there, or two real crash/acceleration couches. And I also can't help thinking that with floor panels and the fire extinguisher coming loose and flying about the pod, maybe it's no surprise there appear to be no other survivors. (Though it probably took more than a loose fire extinguisher to blow gaping holes in the sides of the pods. Was someone or something pot-shotting lifepods as they came down?)
It'd be nice to be able to explore a bit more of the Aurora at some point as well. It is a huge wreck to have just one explorable room and a few treacherous corridors to reach it. Even making allowances for the front half of the ship having been blown to pieces.
-le gasp- its lifepod 17!
Cramming as many people as possible wouldn't be the only consideration. Smaller lifepods accessible directly from sleeping compartments would have some advantages.
How many people sleep in a typical room on the ship? How quickly would you want them off the ship in the event of an emergency? Do you want them running around madly in the corridors tripping over each other or do you just want them gone as quickly as possible?
Even in common workspaces, smaller lifepods would have the advantage of time. If a lifepod holds 8 people and you only have 4 on board, how long do you wait? Every moment you do potentially spells your doom but if everyone left in half-empty lifepods maybe they'd be dooming a large proportion of the crew. Two-seaters would be better in that respect and might result in more crew surviving.
That's not the reason. There's a simple one. Programming effectiveness towards what you want. Singleplayer game means you can't go with other survivors or you'd need more intro and animations with fellows in the lifepod starving. So best solution is this one with a logic flaw of single lifepods. Minimal artwork and most players forgive you, while some even find reasons for the logic flaws ...
Sorry Halios, but it's simple in real life with lifeboats on modern cruisers. Lifeboats have to be redundant in capacity unless in the good old dirty titanic times with greedy ship owners and less places available than people aboard. You don't have to defend a logic flaw. You can just accept that creativity needs a few loopholes for the greater good.
But Klinn wasn't talking in those terms and I responded in kind. And those are good reasons why lifeboats only seat two.
a) I don't think it is a logic flaw. Just because current day seafaring vessels tend to have lifeboats which accommodate more people doesn't mean that's what would be best on a spaceship. Space is a much more hostile environment than the ocean.
b) I'm not defending the dev's decision on this. I'm totally indifferent on the issue of lifepod size and I doubt they gave it much thought. I'm just pointing out that there could be all sorts of good reasons why the lifepods only seat two.
I've started over half a dozen games this (stable) build and each time I went to the grand reef for the moonpool and was able to get it (plus all the other frags) along the edge of the biome. Fairly quick and easy. Then one game I couldn't. I ran the usual route and only found 1 pressure regular and several nuclear reactor frags. So I exited the game and started again (knowing it reloads stuff) and again very few frags. I ended up parking above the wreck (which has frags) and exiting / reloading to complete the moonpool.
Apart from making me wonder about how the game distributes fragments, I have to see posts complaining about not being able to find certain fragments in a new light. Seems not every new game is created equal in this respect.