I don't like the crafting system at all.
Ornafulsamee
Join Date: 2016-08-25 Member: 221707Members
Join Date: 2016-08-25 Member: 221707Members
Globally speaking, the current system is annoying and takes too much time for nothing, he is inefficient, frustrating, and is a big cons for the overall experience of the game.
Hello, I thought I had an account but nope, so here I am, a big fan of sandboxes and since Soma, in dire need of submarine games.
Subnautica so far provided me fears I've never experienced before, well Soma did but Subnautica is doing pretty great, and with no doubt will be the reference once he's finished.
Some people might say it is not a horror game, and I agree with that, but pushing away the limit of the oceans is a really good way to achieve a feeling of completion, But, I think the current development/building system is an annoying piece of crap.
It quickly became redundant to use the fabricator, the animation time is annoying, you cannot build multiple items at once and since your inventory is limited, you have to check the components in the fabricator, check your inventory, take the ressources from the shelves, go back to the fabricator and goddamnit I forgot the silver piece !
But that's just the crafting part - it's annoying to need the fabricator for everything - there's also the looting part.
Having to look in the cluster fuck that are some biomes, while beautiful, is tiring for the eyes, trying to find some tooth or the mistakable sandstone is getting old really really fast. Everything is even more annoying since the new tech tree. I spent hours to get the seamoth and I gave up using a map to gather the component for the tech.
Let me remind you that you need many tools and some luck to find the items (diamond ffs), just to get a seamoth, which should be unlocked at start !
I think you forgot you were developing a game for mostly casual players, I don't want to memorize the whole map, I don't want to eat fish every 5 min, I don't want to get air every 70 seconds, I don't want to do so much backstepping between surface for air or base to load unload materials, the loss of time is incredible and boring.
Subnautica is not a good game because of looting raw materials or ressources managing, it is a good game because of exploration, sense of achievement, and fear of depths.
While I know there is some rewards for unlocking stuff, the balance is not quite right.
Here's my suggestions :
-Less agressive fauna, I swear, getting aggroed every ten seconds is annoying for the ears and lessen the impact of said predators, which become more of a nuisance than a threat.
-Items stacking, yes, it's not realistic, fuck that, let's allow stacking, or at least make it optional.
-increased cargo size ? the current 4x4 boxes for the seamoth are laughable, I don't want to sacrifice cool looking upgrades for that, but I do because they are the most useful and it's frustrating.
-Better batteries, this is the future but they are worst than our current batteries.
-A small tweak regarding the oxygen, make it last 25% or 50% longer, while I enjoy the danger, the loss of time of getting air is too big right now. Also having to carry multiple air tanks is worsening the looting/crafting issue.
-Make a special room combining HUGE cargo and fabricator for crafting purpose, allow the fabricator to craft multiple object at once and able to craft subparts automatically. Also a storage room seems like a good idea.
-Don't make known technologies researchable, I dont know why I have to scan seamoth part to unlock it, but there should be more alien stuff to unlock while scanning fauna, so far I think the only benefit to scan it is the cyclops upgrade. I don't know, make new vehicles, upgrades, suits, items, you have plenty ideas from the community.
-Aurora parts are interesting but right now feels "meh", I think there should be exploitable items in theses, prawn suits, seamoth, equipments, tools, etc... not just "go find THIS wreck to unlock the thing you absolutely need", which seems dumb if you consider most of new players don't know shit about the world map, I had to cheat (getting coordinates) to locate the wrecks I needed because swimming around and getting air every 30 seconds is not fun at all.
TDLR : subnautica is currently a terrible farm fest and is the opposite of noob friendly.
Hello, I thought I had an account but nope, so here I am, a big fan of sandboxes and since Soma, in dire need of submarine games.
Subnautica so far provided me fears I've never experienced before, well Soma did but Subnautica is doing pretty great, and with no doubt will be the reference once he's finished.
Some people might say it is not a horror game, and I agree with that, but pushing away the limit of the oceans is a really good way to achieve a feeling of completion, But, I think the current development/building system is an annoying piece of crap.
It quickly became redundant to use the fabricator, the animation time is annoying, you cannot build multiple items at once and since your inventory is limited, you have to check the components in the fabricator, check your inventory, take the ressources from the shelves, go back to the fabricator and goddamnit I forgot the silver piece !
But that's just the crafting part - it's annoying to need the fabricator for everything - there's also the looting part.
Having to look in the cluster fuck that are some biomes, while beautiful, is tiring for the eyes, trying to find some tooth or the mistakable sandstone is getting old really really fast. Everything is even more annoying since the new tech tree. I spent hours to get the seamoth and I gave up using a map to gather the component for the tech.
Let me remind you that you need many tools and some luck to find the items (diamond ffs), just to get a seamoth, which should be unlocked at start !
I think you forgot you were developing a game for mostly casual players, I don't want to memorize the whole map, I don't want to eat fish every 5 min, I don't want to get air every 70 seconds, I don't want to do so much backstepping between surface for air or base to load unload materials, the loss of time is incredible and boring.
Subnautica is not a good game because of looting raw materials or ressources managing, it is a good game because of exploration, sense of achievement, and fear of depths.
While I know there is some rewards for unlocking stuff, the balance is not quite right.
Here's my suggestions :
-Less agressive fauna, I swear, getting aggroed every ten seconds is annoying for the ears and lessen the impact of said predators, which become more of a nuisance than a threat.
-Items stacking, yes, it's not realistic, fuck that, let's allow stacking, or at least make it optional.
-increased cargo size ? the current 4x4 boxes for the seamoth are laughable, I don't want to sacrifice cool looking upgrades for that, but I do because they are the most useful and it's frustrating.
-Better batteries, this is the future but they are worst than our current batteries.
-A small tweak regarding the oxygen, make it last 25% or 50% longer, while I enjoy the danger, the loss of time of getting air is too big right now. Also having to carry multiple air tanks is worsening the looting/crafting issue.
-Make a special room combining HUGE cargo and fabricator for crafting purpose, allow the fabricator to craft multiple object at once and able to craft subparts automatically. Also a storage room seems like a good idea.
-Don't make known technologies researchable, I dont know why I have to scan seamoth part to unlock it, but there should be more alien stuff to unlock while scanning fauna, so far I think the only benefit to scan it is the cyclops upgrade. I don't know, make new vehicles, upgrades, suits, items, you have plenty ideas from the community.
-Aurora parts are interesting but right now feels "meh", I think there should be exploitable items in theses, prawn suits, seamoth, equipments, tools, etc... not just "go find THIS wreck to unlock the thing you absolutely need", which seems dumb if you consider most of new players don't know shit about the world map, I had to cheat (getting coordinates) to locate the wrecks I needed because swimming around and getting air every 30 seconds is not fun at all.
TDLR : subnautica is currently a terrible farm fest and is the opposite of noob friendly.
Comments
I even thought there was a bug for a while, it's like the devs never go through the beginning of the game and just go straight forward to the part they need to test, and while I understand that, it's like they are detaching themselves from the player's perspective more and more.
This game isn't about farming, it's about exploration of an unknown planet, the whole farming/scanning system is more like artificial length/difficulty than real challenge.
He's not complaining about the build timer concept - he's complaining about basically the rest of the game.
@Ornafulsamee if you really don't like the survival aspects, choose a different mode - for example, freedom mode you still need oxygen but don't need to eat/drink, so that aspect of the game is no longer a problem for you. Also it's hard to take your rage-fest seriously when you complain about things that are flat-out untrue. You do NOT need a diamond to get a seamoth, for example. Also if, as you state, Subnautica is a good game because of exploration, sense of achievement and fear of depths, giving you access to a seamoth from the get-go takes away a lot of that. You don't get the achievement of making yourself a way better method of getting around, and the moth removes much of the danger of deeper diving, since you have a mobile source of oxygen with you that also protects you from most predators. You make other contradictory statements too, like saying predators should be less aggressive, because they're more nuisance than threat - if you make them less aggressive, they're less of a threat and the sense of danger is just gone.
The world is not black and white, if you are only there to tell me to play creative mode without reasoning, you should leave this thread.
It's not about having "everything free" (which I never asked for), it's about tweaking the current tree tech and crafting system.
We have a wiki for a reason, and the game is very much about exploration, but you have to survive to explore.
Simple: Basically all of your problems are gone. You have access to all of the tech tree, no need to eat/drink so no need to farm and you can still explore the world and take in the scenery and strange alien creatures.
I don't like to go to the wiki but given the current state of the game, I don't mind having to, I think they will give much more information in game till the 1.0.
You need diamond to unlock the laser cutter, after discovering multiple wreck I thought it was necessary to unlock it, while I might be wrong, you cannot assume I'm the only one who thought that.
You guys are pros at the arguments fallacies contest, I never proposed such an idea, but now that we talk about it, I think you should need to scan for the seamoth parts, but NOT for the mobile vehicle bay. You can also make it more expensive or whatever, my point is if you unlock the seamoth tech, you SHOULD be able to built it right away.
Well I think the final game will have more threats for the seamoth, I can be wrong, it just seems obvious to me.
Not really, you just misunderstood me, I think there should be WAY less predators but they should be a REAL threat, right now they are just annoying, especially at start when you try to find silver ore, the whole gameplay is to get the stone, then run away once they start screaming until they somehow give up after 5 seconds, rinse and repeat for the whole game.
A good threat for me are the reapers, they are rare, they are easily avoidable, but god damn once they start attacking you shit your pants, should be more of the same for the other predators.
The worst is trying to build a base in the kelps.
Actually it's about survival on an unknown planet. Exploration is necessary to ensure your survival. After all, the Aurora was shot down here. It's not like you came to this planet with the intent of mapping it. Gathering resources is a part of surviving.
Diamonds are found ON THE MOUNTAIN ISLAND. Not in any way, shape, or form difficult to get.
How do you know that if you are a beginner ?
You have to cheat by going on the wiki ?
In an exploration game ?
I don't think you really understand my point. I'm mostly complaining from a new player perspective, but you guys all seems to forgot your first moments when you were lost in the ocean.
Progression was slow but I was okay with it. I think most people here just don't have a problem with the slow speed of progression.
Then again, I'm all for easier access to the Laser Cutter and offer upgrades later with the late game resources:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/143492/tool-laser-cutter-earilier-access-and-upgrade-options
That's another way around the problem. I like this idea, to be fair I don't think the MVB scan would be an issue if we could craft the laser cutter with ressources from the beginning zone.
I guess I don't. I never had that moment, because I like to immerse myself in a game's lore and mechanics before I play, or sometimes, before I even purchase it. Gives me a glimpse of what to look forward to.
- I do agree that batteries could be improved. They run out too fast, and I end up having to carry several with me on trips, which takes up valuable inventory space.
- As annoying as Bleeders and Biters are, I'm fine with fauna aggression, however, Sand Sharks "roaring" repeatedly is a bit much for me, but I can live with it.
- The Aurora parts are fun, and we are still in Early Release, so I'm sure there will be more coming in that regards.
- There is a Freedom mode where you don't have to worry about hunger and oxygen. but I prefer the challenge of managing those resources. A small tweak to the O2 wouldn't hurt, though.
- Instead of fragments, I supposed it would be cool to have objectives, or a signal, that require you to enter the Aurora or a certain wreck and find those items, which are then automatically unlocked. Similar to how we received the Prawn suit. It would just have to be somewhat of a challenge and not just a "handout". I do find it a bit odd that there are "vaults" just lying around randomly to scan. Perhaps we would have to find a data terminal, and download the schematic for the Sea Moth, in order to obtain the capability to craft it.
So far, my biggest "annoyance" is not being able to empty my storage modules from the Sea Moth or Prawn while docked in the Cyclops. I have to transfer items to my personal inventory before docking, and if my personal inventory is already full, I have to board the Cyclops, empty it, and then swim back out to the Sea Moth or Prawn to transfer items, then finally dock with the Cyclops. A bit dangerous in certain biomes.
In my understanding, I think we aren't meant to know where anything is. We are meant to go out and explore. To find a place you haven't seen before and discover a new wreck, or flora and fauna. If knowing where you are going is important to a person, then there are websites with maps that have it all laid out for them. I enjoy taking out my Cyclops, pointing it in a new direction, and finding a strange new place to explore. I spend lots of time with my Sea Glide peeking in every nook and cranny to see what's there. (Switching batteries repeatedly of course.)
These are just my opinions, and I understand that each individual wants something different out of the game. I haven't enjoyed playing a game as much as this one in a long time. And it is still in Early Release, and there is, and will be lots of bugs and things that have to be tweaked. I don't mind, and I can't wait to see what else is in store for us!
Yes exactly, especially since it's an alien worlds where we know there could be anything, which is exciting ! Just looking at the entrance of what seems a huge cave is already frightening, that's why I'm complaining right now, because I love the way the game is going.
Inventory should be automatically emptied at some point of the game. While I understand those saying the game shouldn't be as easy as I said, there is place for new items/tech to allow quality of life improvement. Mainly harvesters and raw material producing rooms, hard and expensive to build but really motivating to get.
And that's all the fun of getting a new game and playing it for the first time. Learning all the shit the game has to offer is part of the experience, an integral part of the entertainment value. From story perspective, you crashed on an alien planet, of course you know shit about it. You go out there, you do trial and error, you die once or twice, and after a while you know your shit. Personally, I'd love to somehow wipe my memory so I could experience Subnautica for the very first time again, be a noob. I still remember the chills I got finding myself in this vast alien ocean and having absolutely no damn clue what to do next.
That said, what you seem to be advocating for, is a game that hands you the tools at the start (seriously, a seamoth right off the bat? Why not cyclops and PRAWN while you are at it...), a game that guides you by the hand like mother hen, that makes finding components blatantly easy, and basically plays itself. What would you be doing then, dear player? Watching the creepvines grow? My sarcasm aside, every single one of us here was a noob in this game once. Instead of accusing the game of being a grindfest and demanding changes, however, we set out to explore, check every nook and cranny - we learned that world and we enjoyed the content. And I bet most of us have fond memories of that time.
TL;DR: I seriously doubt I'd still be playing Subnautica if it worked the way you want it to work.
Explain your so-far baseless accusation.
The vaults are a placeholder. They aren't meant to be in the final game. We've already seen various things (seamoth, cyclops, propulsion cannon, light stick, exosuit) represented by damaged chunks of whatever they are, and more are on the way. When all is said and done, you will not be scanning pristine white safes on the ocean floor, but battered chunks of the technology you're trying to acquire.
Amen to that. Even when I was a noob I wasn't totally in the dark, because I'd found out about Subnautica from watching a youtuber do a series on it, and after about four espisodes of watching him play I was like "that's it, I must have this game". But by then I knew some of the basics like how important silver is, and how to get water, and so on.
As to the issue of being a clueless noob, I think you'll find that when the game is done, and no longer in early access, there will be more complete information in-game that guides you on the right path.
It's true the game is not casual friendly at the moment, but part of that I think is that the game is still early access. They have plans, for instance, to implement a better method of finding signals (thank god) for the two islands so that new players don't have to sift through forum posts and the extremely outdated wiki to find these things, or hope to find those particular signals from the RNG loot crates.
They also clearly need to smooth out this fragment system more. It's true like you said you can find fragments for the seamoth as they are near the lifepod signals we get for fixing our own pod but there is nothing to tell new gamers that they need a mobile vehicle bay to make the seamoth, nor is there anything to point you to were the bay might be. Some people like the idea of having no clues at all and having a huge map to discover with no help at all (originally Legend of Zelda) but for most gamers that is too time consuming without a payoff. Casual gamers want to be drawn in, not hit with a big wall and told to 'look around' until you find something and figure it out on your own.
Predators seem to be less aggressive in this update than they used to be, but I may have just been lucky. They still have an irritating habit of wandering into biomes they don't belong in and phasing intro structures where they can attack you from nowhere with no warning. The Predators need a lot of work but I think the devs know this and I assume they plan to adjust it. I would like to see us get difficulty settings so casuals can relax and explore while still having to be aware of the predators and the threats they pose, and a hard mode for the survivalists who want biters on their heels at all times in the name of challenge.
As far as your crafting issues, I don't really have that problem. You must be trying to craft a lot of things like a gigantic base or multiple subs if you have trouble waiting for the crafting animation. And for stacking well I can see that, and if we didn't need to use so much inventory space for air tanks, the sea glide, and all our tools we would have a lot more space and could craft a lot more easily. However you can craft plenty of lockers on the cyclops, making it a mobile storage facility which can allow for long periods of farming for materials if that's your thing.
As far as the animation time taking too long, I never felt that myself. I guess I could see someone coming from a crafting game like minecraft being frustrated with it, but the crafting isn't the primary focus of the game. You can build that superbase if you really want to but unless you are playing creating for cheating with console commands you have to expect it to take awhile. This game is an underwater exploration, survival, and crafting game so they are currently striving for a balance which I appreciate. If you want a straight up survival game you can play Stranded Deep, if you want a straight up exploration you can play Abzu. I like that this game tries not to be like those and gives us something new, a balance between different playstyles.
At least it's mostly a balance. A lot of people want it to be straight up survival which would be a crime.
You take one post without the context, I mentioned it was absurd you had to scan for what seems a basic technology, I find it idiotic to have to research for something as simple as a MPR. Same goes for seamoth, but I can understand why you should have to search for this one, but not for the MVB too.
And having it unlocked doesnt means you can build it right away, I mentioned the possibility of costs tweaking, you still need to find items prior to that, and that usually involves building a base before.
I called him a dishonest person because he's bitching about details and not the core of the problem, some people are saying "go creative mode lmao", while I'm here to discuss about something you don't seem to understand, stop being nity-picky and using fallacies, then we might start having a real discussion, otherwise leave the thread because I won't change my mind with such answers anyway.
Yeah I'm a hoarder at heart and while gathering most of the ressources is well done (the god damn silver is the only annoying stuff), the inventory management is poorly done, especially when you have one locker for one type of ressource.
The crafting animation is tolerable alone, but coupled with the rest it become unbearable, an easy solution for me would be a cargo room with a super fabricator who could pick needed material in his own inventory.
I don't mind having to stick to the current system as long as they implement new tech in the later stage of the game. Building gigantic stations is so annoying you give up before even starting.
I've played Factorio and I can't imagine it with Sub's system, nightmares' fuel.
EDIT :
I have no problem with that, except it shouldn't be for core items, leave it to modification, prawn suit, hell, even the cyclops or the reactor, but not for the indispensable seamoth and tools.
You survive being shot down from taking an orbital dive by an Aliendefensecannon, jumping in an Escapepod while everything else around you goes boom.
How would it be to be happy about every lil piece of tech you have?
Its a spacefaring Vessel, we can be damn lucky that it even has blueprints for underwaterstuff and not only landbased tech, so we would be forced to explore and scrap what little stuff we can find, without being eaten by the unknown flora and fauna
I think not knowing the MFR and alot of other blueprints adds to the experience of being a shotdown lone survivor, that really can be happy as fuck for being still alive.
The Inventorysystem is exactly fine as it is. I need tons of Titanium for building a fortress of doom, down in 1300M ? Yes, than i HAVE to fucking prepare for its building by either crafting a small tube-only base for lockers or spam the near area with watercrages and fill them with the needed material.
Crafting in my base needs me to think about, what i want to build and fetch the needed material?
Hell yeah, thats the spirit of a fungame for me. Think, than act. Not act and be happy.
That doesnt even correspond to being noobfriendly.
Bought the game not long ago, being a total noob in it, i didnt googled a wiki or anything and still found out how to scan, how to build a seamoth etc etc.
So either im a rare case of a species, thats going to be extinct soon, called the "brainusing noob"
Or you dont put enough faith into the poor noobs.
Even without a guiding hand it should be clear to everyone, that you wont be able to build a seamoth with an indoorfabricator xD
So... Long things short: i cant agree to anything you complain about.
Subnautica is far away from being perfect, but its one of the best Early Access games i ever played.
Immersive gameplay, great craftingsystem in combination with an absolutely funpart in exploring in order to be able to craft in the first place