Thank you for removing the terraformer!

CaptagearCaptagear Join Date: 2016-08-28 Member: 221804Members
edited September 2016 in Subnautica General Discussion
@ Dev Team,

A lot of people cried in protest about the removal of the terraformer. I however, fist pumped a great big "Yes!". Why? Well as much as I agree the terraformer is a neat little tool I think it's going to be for the better (Please use the terraformer model for something else, it looks too cool! :) ). From a Dev perspective, the issues and features of this tool are tremendous! A couple of quick points I can think of:
  1. Navmeshing for AI is painful as having dynamic changes (I don't think Unity likes this from memory) means you cannot hand draw it. It must rely on auto-generated meshes which can be awful and glitchy a lot of the time!
  2. Save bloating. It's just annoying to design systems where this doesn't happen.
  3. Players destroy things on themselves. A lot of games give players the tools to destroy their own enjoyment, despite the player's intentions. You just can't help building the great leviathan wall and then realise...what have I done??
  4. The point I am most excited for is... it shows the game is moving on from its early sandbox feel to a more role-playing, survival, base building game. Which personally, is a lot more exciting. We can have a game that is hand-crafted just for us, instead of often lifeless auto-generated games.
I'm waiting to see what is in store for this game! Just clipping the Aurora and seeing the ship's spare space makes me clench in excitement!

So cheers Unknown Worlds for removing this, and also being a cool Dev team! :)


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Comments

  • TarkannenTarkannen North Carolina Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221304Members
    edited September 2016
    I'm just happy that removing the terraforming tool and "Dig Sand" command have made the savefile size smaller. I'll be even more happier when the next patch actually removes terraforming completely (the terraformer can still be debugged in, and when building certain structures the surrounding landscape will still be removed if they would clip into the land when finished). I'm not against modifying the landscape, but when given a choice between better performance/lower memory usage/less disk space used OR being able to poke holes into the ground, I'll take stability any day. :)
    Off Topic Disagree 4Agree Awesome
  • AvaruuAvaruu Texas Join Date: 2016-06-06 Member: 218168Members
    The first and only time I've had to use the terraformer was last night when I fell into a hole on the floater island - it's somewhere on the path between the two abandoned bases on the far ends. It hasn't been fixed yet and I fall into it with every new game, and /spawn doesn't work.

    Regardless, I hope that the removal of any kind of terraforming fixes their issue with terrain chopping at a certain distance, since I assume that it wouldn't have to check anymore to see if there's been any player changes made to the terrain. I think that it's much better for the game, in the end.
    Off Topic Disagree 2Agree Awesome
  • KlinnKlinn Lost in a cave Join Date: 2016-03-09 Member: 214022Members
    Avaruu wrote: »
    ...fell into a hole on the floater island - it's somewhere on the path between the two abandoned bases on the far ends. It hasn't been fixed yet and I fall into it with every new game, and /spawn doesn't work.

    If you stumble into it again sometime, try using the console command "Goto Base1". That takes you to the abandoned base in the middle of the island.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ech0gh0stech0gh0st CA Join Date: 2016-05-11 Member: 216637Members
    Captagear wrote: »
    @ Dev Team,

    A lot of people cried in protest about the removal of the terraformer. I however, fist pumped a great big "Yes!". Why? Well as much as I agree the terraformer is a neat little tool I think it's going to be for the better (Please use the terraformer model for something else, it looks too cool! :) ). From a Dev perspective, the issues and features of this tool are tremendous! A couple of quick points I can think of:
    1. Navmeshing for AI is painful as having dynamic changes (I don't think Unity likes this from memory) means you cannot hand draw it. It must rely on auto-generated meshes which can be awful and glitchy a lot of the time!
    2. Save bloating. It's just annoying to design systems where this doesn't happen.
    3. Players destroy things on themselves. A lot of games give players the tools to destroy their own enjoyment, despite the player's intentions. You just can't help building the great leviathan wall and then realise...what have I done??
    4. The point I am most excited for is... it shows the game is moving on from its early sandbox feel to a more role-playing, survival, base building game. Which personally, is a lot more exciting. We can have a game that is hand-crafted just for us, instead of often lifeless auto-generated games.
    I'm waiting to see what is in store for this game! Just clipping the Aurora and seeing the ship's spare space makes me clench in excitement!

    So cheers Unknown Worlds for removing this, and also being a cool Dev team! :)


    It's not actually out it's still spawnable and still works
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • bwc153bwc153 Shawnee, KS, US Join Date: 2016-02-29 Member: 213659Members
    ech0gh0st wrote: »

    It's not actually out it's still spawnable and still works

    It's going to be 100% removed soon.
    Off Topic Disagree 1Agree Awesome
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depths Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Members
    Captagear wrote: »
    3. Players destroy things on themselves. A lot of games give players the tools to destroy their own enjoyment, despite the player's intentions. You just can't help building the great leviathan wall and then realise...what have I done??

    I don't have that issue with the terraformer per se, but the terraforming done by base component placement. Especially the moonpool.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • narfblatnarfblat Utah, USA Join Date: 2016-05-15 Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
    Crashfish also have terraforming capability, as they can take a big chunk out where they explode. I had a crash try to attack while I was in a cave that went behind its plant. It took out the plant, and a chunk of terrain, leaving crash powder floating where there had been rock. I hope they remember to include them when they remove terraforming. :)
    Off Topic Disagree 2Agree Awesome
  • bwc153bwc153 Shawnee, KS, US Join Date: 2016-02-29 Member: 213659Members
    narfblat wrote: »
    Crashfish also have terraforming capability, as they can take a big chunk out where they explode. I had a crash try to attack while I was in a cave that went behind its plant. It took out the plant, and a chunk of terrain, leaving crash powder floating where there had been rock. I hope they remember to include them when they remove terraforming. :)

    They'll probably remove the system as a whole that allows for the terrain to be modified that way.
    Off Topic Disagree 2Agree Awesome
  • MichloMichlo Originally Wallasey, UK now Los Angeles, US. Join Date: 2016-09-10 Member: 222215Members
    What will happen to our bases which have already affected the terrain?
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    Michlo wrote: »
    What will happen to our bases which have already affected the terrain?

    The saves are going to be incompatible. At least, that seems to be the most likely option.
    Off Topic 1Disagree Agree Awesome
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members
    Why is this such a big deal? Just track terrain modifications while players are nearby. After they leave for a while, forget the modifications.

    And have bases either save it a bit more, or re-modify the terrain on load.
    Off Topic 2Disagree Agree Awesome
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    EvilSmoo wrote: »
    Why is this such a big deal? Just track terrain modifications while players are nearby. After they leave for a while, forget the modifications.

    And have bases either save it a bit more, or re-modify the terrain on load.

    Because that wouldn't fix nearly as many problems as removing it all together would.
    Off Topic 1Disagree 4Agree Awesome
  • CaptagearCaptagear Join Date: 2016-08-28 Member: 221804Members
    narfblat wrote: »
    Crashfish also have terraforming capability, as they can take a big chunk out where they explode. I had a crash try to attack while I was in a cave that went behind its plant. It took out the plant, and a chunk of terrain, leaving crash powder floating where there had been rock. I hope they remember to include them when they remove terraforming. :)

    Are you serious? Never knew this or seen this! :open_mouth:
    I always swim in and trigger the plant to open, sea glide out and go back in and grab the powder from the plant lol. Never seen the terrain change lol!
    dealwithitdog wrote: »
    EvilSmoo wrote: »
    Why is this such a big deal? Just track terrain modifications while players are nearby. After they leave for a while, forget the modifications.

    And have bases either save it a bit more, or re-modify the terrain on load.

    Because that wouldn't fix nearly as many problems as removing it all together would.

    Yeah I agree, just not too sure bout the base building component.
    Sidchicken wrote: »
    Captagear wrote: »
    3. Players destroy things on themselves. A lot of games give players the tools to destroy their own enjoyment, despite the player's intentions. You just can't help building the great leviathan wall and then realise...what have I done??

    I don't have that issue with the terraformer per se, but the terraforming done by base component placement. Especially the moonpool.

    I understand that :)

    I just know alot of people are guilty of the Levi walls haha! xD

    It's never my moonpool that gets me, it's the multipurpose rooms if you don't build them correctly. :P
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
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