Is there any specific information thus far about what is causing it? I just think its really strange that some with high end PCs are also having the problem while lower end systems are running smooth.
High-End PCs have much less issues than mid-low end machines as they are designed for high-bandwidth calculations and I/O operations.
The 'fps' problem is a number of different issues. There is not one problem, but many to overcome. Some examples; the amount of playable entities with complex AI & tracking of their own personal data (aka all the fish in the entire world) is much larger in our game than other games. Unity is still pretty single-threaded as an engine and doesnt distribute the game over all the Xbox cores, so the slow single-threaded CPU power of the Xbox's CPU cores comes to light (as well as lower-end PCs). The Unity engine has asset loading/unloading, but are very difficult to use in open-world type games where you need to be able to have everything near you at a moments notice. The I/O operations of machines with traditional hard drives is a problem. The Xbox's I/O speed between it's silicon and it's very slow 2.5" 5900RPM HDD (as well as laptops) is a problem when you have a large world like ours (as far as I'm aware, streaming isnt in Unity). Generating real-time deformation of terrain is a major speed problem (it's still generating on Xbox, even though you cant terraform it right now). The LODs are not yet optimized. The textures we're using in the game to look as good as we can are pushing the limit of both the hardware and the engine. These are just some of the issues we're having to get data on, work out HOW to fix properly and then implement a plan.
So these are just some of the issues we have to overcome, and there are more. There is no silver bullet, just a lot of work.
Subnautica devs, I know your focus is on content and I know that performance problems are on your radar.
But as a software dev myself, I'd like to remind you that performance is a feature, and that it's really really difficult to try to fix performance problems months after they manifest. Firstly because the codebase has changed so much since the issue was introduced, that finding the actual root cause may be difficult or impossible. Secondly, you will find pieces of poor-performing code that you can't just rewrite, because something else has become dependent on it... and something else is depending on that component... and all of a sudden your day-long rewrite of a single, "minor" piece of code to fix a performance bug has become a multi-month refactoring exercise. During which, of course, you'll introduce new bugs and performance problems, because such is the nature of software development.
Furthermore, if you leave fixing performance to last, you are compounding your problems, because just like a rotten tooth, the longer you leave it, the worse it becomes. Or to use another analogy, you're building a castle on foundations of sand, and you hope to replace the sand with concrete afterwards.
While I understand your desire to push more content for Subnautica to gain more players, I really think you guys should stop, take a minute, and look at the forum. Look at how many complaints there are about the game being slow to unplayable, especially on consoles, and think about how an unhappy playerbase will affect you in the long run. Unhappy players aren't going to recommend the game to their friends; unhappy players aren't going to leave positive Steam reviews.
It's particularly worrying that Subnautica's performance seems to be following that of NS2, a game that never really got it together in the performance department either. Yes, I know the engines are different, but releasing two games back-to-back that have performance problems will definitely lead to questions being asked about Unknown Worlds' dedication to user experience.
I'm not saying that you guys need to drop everything and solely work on optimizing Subnautica for the next month. What I am saying is that we, your players, would feel much happier and more reassured about the game's future if you would just SHOW US that you care about performance - by delivering optimizations sooner, rather than later - as opposed to asking us to hold on and have faith.
Subnautica devs, I know your focus is on content and I know that performance problems are on your radar.
But as a software dev myself, I'd like to remind you that performance is a feature, and that it's really really difficult to try to fix performance problems months after they manifest. Firstly because the codebase has changed so much since the issue was introduced, that finding the actual root cause may be difficult or impossible. Secondly, you will find pieces of poor-performing code that you can't just rewrite, because something else has become dependent on it... and something else is depending on that component... and all of a sudden your day-long rewrite of a single, "minor" piece of code to fix a performance bug has become a multi-month refactoring exercise. During which, of course, you'll introduce new bugs and performance problems, because such is the nature of software development.
Furthermore, if you leave fixing performance to last, you are compounding your problems, because just like a rotten tooth, the longer you leave it, the worse it becomes. Or to use another analogy, you're building a castle on foundations of sand, and you hope to replace the sand with concrete afterwards.
While I understand your desire to push more content for Subnautica to gain more players, I really think you guys should stop, take a minute, and look at the forum. Look at how many complaints there are about the game being slow to unplayable, especially on consoles, and think about how an unhappy playerbase will affect you in the long run. Unhappy players aren't going to recommend the game to their friends; unhappy players aren't going to leave positive Steam reviews.
It's particularly worrying that Subnautica's performance seems to be following that of NS2, a game that never really got it together in the performance department either. Yes, I know the engines are different, but releasing two games back-to-back that have performance problems will definitely lead to questions being asked about Unknown Worlds' dedication to user experience.
I'm not saying that you guys need to drop everything and solely work on optimizing Subnautica for the next month. What I am saying is that we, your players, would feel much happier and more reassured about the game's future if you would just SHOW US that you care about performance - by delivering optimizations sooner, rather than later - as opposed to asking us to hold on and have faith.
My thoughts exactly. That's what I tried to say in my non-dev verbose.
Subnautica devs, I know your focus is on content and I know that performance problems are on your radar.
But as a software dev myself, I'd like to remind you that performance is a feature, and that it's really really difficult to try to fix performance problems months after they manifest. Firstly because the codebase has changed so much since the issue was introduced, that finding the actual root cause may be difficult or impossible. Secondly, you will find pieces of poor-performing code that you can't just rewrite, because something else has become dependent on it... and something else is depending on that component... and all of a sudden your day-long rewrite of a single, "minor" piece of code to fix a performance bug has become a multi-month refactoring exercise. During which, of course, you'll introduce new bugs and performance problems, because such is the nature of software development.
Furthermore, if you leave fixing performance to last, you are compounding your problems, because just like a rotten tooth, the longer you leave it, the worse it becomes. Or to use another analogy, you're building a castle on foundations of sand, and you hope to replace the sand with concrete afterwards.
While I understand your desire to push more content for Subnautica to gain more players, I really think you guys should stop, take a minute, and look at the forum. Look at how many complaints there are about the game being slow to unplayable, especially on consoles, and think about how an unhappy playerbase will affect you in the long run. Unhappy players aren't going to recommend the game to their friends; unhappy players aren't going to leave positive Steam reviews.
It's particularly worrying that Subnautica's performance seems to be following that of NS2, a game that never really got it together in the performance department either. Yes, I know the engines are different, but releasing two games back-to-back that have performance problems will definitely lead to questions being asked about Unknown Worlds' dedication to user experience.
I'm not saying that you guys need to drop everything and solely work on optimizing Subnautica for the next month. What I am saying is that we, your players, would feel much happier and more reassured about the game's future if you would just SHOW US that you care about performance - by delivering optimizations sooner, rather than later - as opposed to asking us to hold on and have faith.
Yes, there is an excuse: It's an EARLY ACCESS game, which means it's still in development. This is made quite clear on the store page, therefore you accepted this when you purchased it. In future perhaps you'd be better off not buying early access games and waiting until they are completed.
Yes, there is an excuse: It's an EARLY ACCESS game, which means it's still in development. This is made quite clear on the store page, therefore you accepted this when you purchased it. In future perhaps you'd be better off not buying early access games and waiting until they are completed.
And yet, if people praise the current state of the game-- "This game is great", "I love the look", "the current features are awesome", you won't read anyone saying, "yeah, but it's early access, so it might end up sucking." People are simply trying to steer the devs in what they feel is the proper direction; feedback, if you will. They criticize and complain here because they want the game to succeed, or else they would be making YouTube videos trying to burn the studio down.
EA games do get a bit of leeway, but far too often it's used as means to try and shutdown people's opinion and excuse everything. Once people pay for something, they then have an investment in the product, so of course, people are going to have concerns. I can't deny that there is a disclaimer with EA games, but even that only goes so far to promoting confidence. Not to mention, there is an open forum for the game, so people can comment. Maybe EA games "aren't for some people", but those people get to decide that. I don't see devs turning down money for their product, regardless of criticisms. Yes, it's a WIP, but to expect people who invest in the product to not voice concerns is unrealistic.
Yes, there is an excuse: It's an EARLY ACCESS game, which means it's still in development. This is made quite clear on the store page, therefore you accepted this when you purchased it. In future perhaps you'd be better off not buying early access games and waiting until they are completed.
Get context, read everything posted already otherwise you embarrass yourself. I've already given my 2 cents on the invalid dismissal of people by saying "early access isn't for you".
narfblatUtah, USAJoin Date: 2016-05-15Member: 216799Members, Forum Moderators, Forum staff
My thoughts on the discussion: "Telling it like it is" never truly is, as there are many sides to the debate. Feel free to express your opinion, but use a little tact (and don't forget it is an opinion). Keep in mind whether your intention is to incite anger or to fix the problem. Anger may sometimes spur action, but more often it will cause them to ignore you, and respond with "it's early access, what did you expect".
Here's my helpful feedback for the devs: Having a solid-state hard drive does seem to be very helpful, as that and win7 are my only upgrades in the past couple years. Unfortunately solid-state isn't an option for XB1(as far as I know). I have to run on d3d9 mode, but have only occasional stuttering on "recommended" graphics settings.
Subnautica devs, I know your focus is on content and I know that performance problems are on your radar.
But as a software dev myself, I'd like to remind you that performance is a feature, and that it's really really difficult to try to fix performance problems months after they manifest. Firstly because the codebase has changed so much since the issue was introduced, that finding the actual root cause may be difficult or impossible. Secondly, you will find pieces of poor-performing code that you can't just rewrite, because something else has become dependent on it... and something else is depending on that component... and all of a sudden your day-long rewrite of a single, "minor" piece of code to fix a performance bug has become a multi-month refactoring exercise. During which, of course, you'll introduce new bugs and performance problems, because such is the nature of software development.
Furthermore, if you leave fixing performance to last, you are compounding your problems, because just like a rotten tooth, the longer you leave it, the worse it becomes. Or to use another analogy, you're building a castle on foundations of sand, and you hope to replace the sand with concrete afterwards...
This just gave me a completely new view at the problem. Thanks for that comment I don't know anything about programming but thanks to that comment I finally start to understand that saying "99 little bugs in the code, rewrite it and patch it around - 127 little bugs in the code" or something like it haha.
When the game came out for Xbox I really enjoyed it. I know it was GP game, and still accept its shortcomings. However, as the OP mentioned somewhat rudely, it's very difficult to play now. I know bugs are expected, but as mentioned, there is a risk of losing interest because of missed expectations and disappointments with the current state of the game. I would prefer a stable framework to work on than a complete game that can barely hold its own. No amount of content will ever replace stable gameplay. What if the devs find out that the game won't even run well on Xbox? That's something you would like to know sooner than later.
I have other GP games, but this is the only I actually have to stop playing until it catches up to a confortable level. Keep it up devs while I'm still here, look at NMS. Nah, I know you are way better. Just don't disappoint me.
I'm pretty sure it's manageable, as my PC is having issues as well (it didn't used to). There's a memory leak, or a bug with not unloading resources, or something (I made a post about that, there's actually 3 bugs that might be related to this, or at the very least, making it worse).
Ive just gotten the game yesterday on xbox one, after a few hours this is what my experience has become ( http://xboxclips.com/HowardHughes77/0d32794f-01c9-4906-b7d4-f72da888acca ) UNPLAYABLE. I figured, the game is in early access, so i got onto google to see if anyone else has been having this framerate issue. Low and behold, its been like this for months... and anyone to bring it up sugarcoats the topic to the point where you would think this community is just a bunch of dunkin donuts employees.
STOP making new content for your game, FIX the performance issues NOW while people still care. Content keeps getting added and its beyond me why, everything added gives more potential for even more bugs that could be causing said performance issues meaning by the time they even plan on fixing it, it could take even longer. Your game is good and people like it, thats not an excuse to get lazy about cleaning up the glaring issues this game has. I would LOVEEEE to give actual feedback, alot of it regarding XB1 specific issues, and im sure i could find more. HOWEVER WHEN I CANT PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED ITS KINDA HARD TO EVEN WANT TO TOUCH THIS.
EDIT: And no, its not an issue with the xbox itself, the xbox one is fine and can run bigger badder things than subnautica. If it was an issue associated solely with the xbox, we would have a waaay bigger problem. Anyway, just fix your game, its been months, theres no excuse.
Whoa chill dude I'm XB1 player too and yes the FPS can drop to 0 but it is in Game Preview and honestly you can't really go and attack the game when it is in Game Preview just wait and be patient for 1.0 and by that I don't mean don't give feedback. What I do mean is just be nicer about it.
Comments
High-End PCs have much less issues than mid-low end machines as they are designed for high-bandwidth calculations and I/O operations.
The 'fps' problem is a number of different issues. There is not one problem, but many to overcome. Some examples; the amount of playable entities with complex AI & tracking of their own personal data (aka all the fish in the entire world) is much larger in our game than other games. Unity is still pretty single-threaded as an engine and doesnt distribute the game over all the Xbox cores, so the slow single-threaded CPU power of the Xbox's CPU cores comes to light (as well as lower-end PCs). The Unity engine has asset loading/unloading, but are very difficult to use in open-world type games where you need to be able to have everything near you at a moments notice. The I/O operations of machines with traditional hard drives is a problem. The Xbox's I/O speed between it's silicon and it's very slow 2.5" 5900RPM HDD (as well as laptops) is a problem when you have a large world like ours (as far as I'm aware, streaming isnt in Unity). Generating real-time deformation of terrain is a major speed problem (it's still generating on Xbox, even though you cant terraform it right now). The LODs are not yet optimized. The textures we're using in the game to look as good as we can are pushing the limit of both the hardware and the engine. These are just some of the issues we're having to get data on, work out HOW to fix properly and then implement a plan.
So these are just some of the issues we have to overcome, and there are more. There is no silver bullet, just a lot of work.
But as a software dev myself, I'd like to remind you that performance is a feature, and that it's really really difficult to try to fix performance problems months after they manifest. Firstly because the codebase has changed so much since the issue was introduced, that finding the actual root cause may be difficult or impossible. Secondly, you will find pieces of poor-performing code that you can't just rewrite, because something else has become dependent on it... and something else is depending on that component... and all of a sudden your day-long rewrite of a single, "minor" piece of code to fix a performance bug has become a multi-month refactoring exercise. During which, of course, you'll introduce new bugs and performance problems, because such is the nature of software development.
Furthermore, if you leave fixing performance to last, you are compounding your problems, because just like a rotten tooth, the longer you leave it, the worse it becomes. Or to use another analogy, you're building a castle on foundations of sand, and you hope to replace the sand with concrete afterwards.
While I understand your desire to push more content for Subnautica to gain more players, I really think you guys should stop, take a minute, and look at the forum. Look at how many complaints there are about the game being slow to unplayable, especially on consoles, and think about how an unhappy playerbase will affect you in the long run. Unhappy players aren't going to recommend the game to their friends; unhappy players aren't going to leave positive Steam reviews.
It's particularly worrying that Subnautica's performance seems to be following that of NS2, a game that never really got it together in the performance department either. Yes, I know the engines are different, but releasing two games back-to-back that have performance problems will definitely lead to questions being asked about Unknown Worlds' dedication to user experience.
I'm not saying that you guys need to drop everything and solely work on optimizing Subnautica for the next month. What I am saying is that we, your players, would feel much happier and more reassured about the game's future if you would just SHOW US that you care about performance - by delivering optimizations sooner, rather than later - as opposed to asking us to hold on and have faith.
My thoughts exactly. That's what I tried to say in my non-dev verbose.
+ 1,000,000
Yes, there is an excuse: It's an EARLY ACCESS game, which means it's still in development. This is made quite clear on the store page, therefore you accepted this when you purchased it. In future perhaps you'd be better off not buying early access games and waiting until they are completed.
Why is this 'discussion' even needed ?
This goes nowhere.
And yet, if people praise the current state of the game-- "This game is great", "I love the look", "the current features are awesome", you won't read anyone saying, "yeah, but it's early access, so it might end up sucking." People are simply trying to steer the devs in what they feel is the proper direction; feedback, if you will. They criticize and complain here because they want the game to succeed, or else they would be making YouTube videos trying to burn the studio down.
EA games do get a bit of leeway, but far too often it's used as means to try and shutdown people's opinion and excuse everything. Once people pay for something, they then have an investment in the product, so of course, people are going to have concerns. I can't deny that there is a disclaimer with EA games, but even that only goes so far to promoting confidence. Not to mention, there is an open forum for the game, so people can comment. Maybe EA games "aren't for some people", but those people get to decide that. I don't see devs turning down money for their product, regardless of criticisms. Yes, it's a WIP, but to expect people who invest in the product to not voice concerns is unrealistic.
Get context, read everything posted already otherwise you embarrass yourself. I've already given my 2 cents on the invalid dismissal of people by saying "early access isn't for you".
This discussion went further than I expected, what goes nowhere are comments with nothing relevant to contribute.
Here's my helpful feedback for the devs: Having a solid-state hard drive does seem to be very helpful, as that and win7 are my only upgrades in the past couple years. Unfortunately solid-state isn't an option for XB1(as far as I know). I have to run on d3d9 mode, but have only occasional stuttering on "recommended" graphics settings.
This just gave me a completely new view at the problem. Thanks for that comment I don't know anything about programming but thanks to that comment I finally start to understand that saying "99 little bugs in the code, rewrite it and patch it around - 127 little bugs in the code" or something like it haha.
I'm pretty sure it's manageable, as my PC is having issues as well (it didn't used to). There's a memory leak, or a bug with not unloading resources, or something (I made a post about that, there's actually 3 bugs that might be related to this, or at the very least, making it worse).
Whoa chill dude I'm XB1 player too and yes the FPS can drop to 0 but it is in Game Preview and honestly you can't really go and attack the game when it is in Game Preview just wait and be patient for 1.0 and by that I don't mean don't give feedback. What I do mean is just be nicer about it.
Stasis rifle + knife (knife is 1-hit when in stasis bubble)
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Articule Mort/video/22587396