Ambient Occlusion
coolitic
Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
The AO in the game seems to have a sort of "static" grainy effect. Wouldn't it just be better to change the sample pattern every frame? Also, even on high settings, the AO looks sub-optimal, so it would probably be a good idea to add higher quality options or something.
Comments
I can't speak for others, but I can say that I have been bugging a certain developer about this for a long time now, always throwing potential AO solutions I find at them, much to their annoyance. :P
I agree it's something that I think can make a game look better for those that want it, I just think it needs to impact performance far less before it can be considered remotely usable.
We are not disputing your claim that there are fps issues in ns2 -- we know... oh God how we know... What we DO take issue with is your attitude. If you REALLY want to have a discussion about fps issues... act like it. Posting short, inflammatory sentence fragments is NOT how you start a discussion, it's how you start a flame war. When Iron says "keep it on topic", he's not worried about the discussion of fps issues, he's worried about the responses your provocative comment will bring.
Yea I mean there are fps issues with everything off and low already what I said in a contracted form because it is obvious and didnt need to be further expanded is there is no point adding better AO before having optimized the game so much so, 200 constant fps becomes easy to maintain for average hardware, and having many entities on screen is as much a challenge. Because unless that level of optimization is reached, nobody would use the new AO still because simply this is a fast paced game: action clarity > graphics
A better antialiasing why not, it adds a lot of clarity as it removes the distracting jagged edges glitter but AO its purely fancy also way more like the framerate bulldozer.
Sorry, I just like a good spanking once in a while
Who would disagree one of the important reasons for the huge success of WoW, Overwatch, LoL, CS was they could run on a potato at the time of their release?
In my free time, I've been working on quite a lot of things in the graphics department... one of which is a temporal reprojection algorithm, which could be used for better AA, as well as cheaper, better AO.
I'm also working on a small feature to add to the graphics menu, a "benchmark" tool, that loads up a level, plays a short cutscene, and gathers framerate data to present at the end. This will help us do a much better job of gauging performance, and making sure that new changes don't tank the fps. (Hard for me to tell, I've got a really beefy machine.
I disagree.
For one, that'll probably never be possible due to the amount of work required, you'd more than likely need to entirely re factor the game code
Secondly, they are unrelated. Users aiming for the highest fps will typically turn down their settings anyways
And then there are users who can afford to use better looking graphics without hampering their score in game. Not everyone plays with the lowest settings.
For instance, you can use the OP as an example, or that I use shadows and anti aliasing and reflections and high particles and high textures etc. The only thing I don't use is bloom and atmospherics because they obscure too much.
In fact I'd say the large majority of tech support zip files I've looked through the years have easily had over half the graphics features enabled.
The only reason I don't use AO is because of the mouse input delay. If that can be addressed... Then why not?
There's this common misconception that to improve on one part of a game somehow steals resources away from another and this just isn't always the case. We can improve on the optional visuals for those that enjoy and use them AND we can improve performance...
The only reason you do not use AO is for the input lag?
I am QUITE sure you were one of the folk ive complained about for hours upon hours about NS2 AO. Im quite sure ive send you more vids and pics on the subject than on any other matter in that time period.
More serious on topic.. This whole AO debate is kinda.. ancient news aint it?
But nice if it can finally be fixed.
Added to the list of ancient suggestions
Don't forget Translucency, if I can't see through the membrane of a Lerk then I don't want any part of it!
Oh damn, you're right. Completely forgot about that, the transparency hack we have is wack and only usable as glass right
What?
Here's some fun data on the matter thanks to @Dictator93 , from some years back, with a theoretical solution suggested by myself and matso (fps smoothing)
An exception to an average that is all. Probably less than 10% ppl using AO today.
Because it's already hard to run the game smooth with everything disabled on average hardware.
Theres no excuse to be both laggy and dated.
A game that runs bad is usually for me a big no-no. A game thats a bit ugly who cares.
The rookie retention would benefit from better performance Im sure.
Temporal Repro..what?? How much less blurry than current FXAA?
Benchmark sounds awesome. But please.. wouldnt it make more sense to fix #1 the framerate #2 prettier graphics? or is it that future optmimizations are not planned at all?
There could be some simple options to start like use all grey textures or use simplified player/pve models alongside the already existing high performance lights from ns2+ .
"A beefy computer" good for you but look at WoW, CS, LoL, or really any esport long-lasting title of the past has in common to run on less than average hardware at day1. Concidence?
As for natural selection 2, I remember that when it was released, it was known for having such an inefficient renderer to the point that most people in my KnightsofReason.net community couldn't even run the game at decent framerates. Unlike the past where having over 30 fps was considered lucky, these days people say 30 fps isn't even tolerable. This probably contributed to the harsh declination in the population a few months after release. Ever since the majority of my KoR clan/community who had NS2 gave up, they haven't bothered to retry the game for a long period of time due to the lack of satisfaction from the game compared to Tremulous, which they have also left due to the decline in the community.
Currently it seems impossible to even run NS2 without a GPU. Perhaps this could be the next optimisation goal?
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Back on-topic, isnt the in-game SSAO a very old technique of AO? Modern games like IL-2 sturmovik battle of stalingrad or battlefield 1 don't have the grainy effect but they use a different rendering technique. Speaking of SSAO, I noticed it exists in the GL 2.1 renderer and it looks like a speckled shadow of some sort rather than a blurry fuzz like it is in NS2.
For this reason I prefer to turn off SSAO in either case
Meaning, your best best is just improved screenspace AO, such as Alchemy AO (which was made by Max's brother! Max = one of UWE's founding owners who made the NS2 engine Spark) or something similar.
Really, its not just about quality but also the ms required per frame.
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/categories/natural-selection-2
Usually after I read a thread the icon goes dark. 1View?