Into the Inactive Lava Zone - How should we approach it?
Rezca
United States Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Members
United States Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Members
I don't usually like making forum polls... They seem more like for fun and games than for actually striving to make a change or influence something... But, a few people – both on the forum and off – had been suggesting I do so. Here goes I guess!
First, a little explaining. Way back before the Inactive Lava Zone was fleshed out, before it had the beautiful lava flows and the sea dragon was added into the region... The Inactive Lava Zone had three distinct “Corridors” connecting to the center.
They were in the far northwest, in the Dunes...
In the east, at the bottom of the Aurora's front section...
And in the far south, in the Deep Grand Reef.
I'm sure many people first found the Inactive Lava Zone through the Deep Grand Reef. It was the safest way to reach it. I personally first found it through the Aurora Corridor, and didn't know about the Dunes Sinkhole until Markiplier found it
Today, the Deep Grand Reef entrance has been sealed up. The Dunes Sinkhole has been replaced with a Meteor impact and a Precursor Cache. The Crash Zone Abyss corridor is – for the time being – still there. It's in the same unfinished state as the other corridors were way, way, way back when.... But its still there. For now.
When asked about the Lost River's entrances, one of the developers gave a startlingly poor piece of logic that is just wrong in so many ways its unbelievable.
The full quote: “The more entrances and exits the more likely players will explore only half of it before running into an exit and leaving”. Exact quote, no edits.
Think about this for a moment. Subnautica was and still is labeled as an “Underwater exploration game in an open world”. When you think of that, does the idea of actively removing biomes from the game and limiting the player's ability to explore, actually benefit that genre? Would a player really end up never coming back to a biome after leaving it? Isn't their leaving an area THEIR choice? Every exit also serves as an entrance. If the player leaving an area before fully exploring it in one go is that big of a deal, then what you're looking for as a solution is One-Way Entrances that disallow the player from leaving until they complete some objective.
And I don't think that's what any of us want.
Right now, we only have one way into the ILZ and that's through the Lost River. Technically, you can also dive down into the Crash Zone Abyss and go through the – might I add – absolutely massive entrance there, but looking at the logic pointed out above, that might not survive.
Now, here's my thoughts on why I think the Crash Zone Corridor should remain.
First of all, look at that image of the three corridors. Look how massive the Crash Zone corridor is. Think about how the ILZ Chamber currently looks. Think about the one remaining Corrdior and how it looks. Now think about that massive gallery all fleshed out, and how it could look. It has POTENTIAL, and a lot of it.
Second, it passes underneath the Koosh Zone - which the AI Assistant says is a volcanicly active area. This would make sense, to have a corridor beneath it. Maybe there's more they could add, like parts of the organic material from above on the roof of it. Then it passes under the Mountains, they could add Precursor tech down there, the pipes snaking through the roof and down towards the Chamber.... Again, this place has potential here.
Third, the Sea Dragons have been stated to hunt and eat Reaper Leviathans. Coincidentally, two of the three Old Corridors were very wide and spacious and opened up into reaper-infested territory. Heck, they even had reapers patroling directly above them! The Aurora Corridor could have not only massive fissures spewing superhot water and molten rock into the corridor, but have reaper skeletons strewn about along the way.... And then a third Sea Dragon somewhere inside. Putting a skeleton or two in the ILZ Chamber is nice, sure. But putting them in a corridor that opens up to a reaper's habitat is even better. Then you can see very well that the sea dragon goes through there to hunt them. Seeing it in the Chamber... Well, for all we know the precursors brought it down there, or it got lost and died in the harsh environment. Sure, they could just have the scan imply the sea dragon did it in, but there's so many more opportunities here too!
Fourth, the EXPLORATION aspect of this. Exploration games should reward people for straying off the beaten path and taking the time to let their curiosity guide them to every corner of the map, for desiring to explore the world the developers made. This is a location that's in an out of the way spot, so you'd be rewarded for taking the time to see what's down there. Or in reverse, you'd stumble upon it when exploring the ILZ and find yourself in familiar territory - “I never knew that was there!”
Finally, having this here would mean you have OPTIONS. In the early game, you had a lot of freedom in how you wanted to approach the Fragment Hunt. With how the lategame is developing, you don't have many options other than “Do I want to enter the LR through the north or the south?” Having the Aurora Corridor means you'd also be able to go through the Eastern Corridor – which is large enough to be a biome in of itself! But, there's more. The Lost River is – for the most part – quite safe. You're traveling in the exosuit or the Cyclops, and even with the latter damageable now, it still doesn't have the same effect. You see, the Dunes Entrance was a bit of a risk because it had a REAPER parked above it. That served as a deterrent for people, to not approach. Unless they had the invulnerable cyclops. The Aurora Entrance might “look” easier at first glance, but it's also got a Reaper above it. That would keep the average diver from trying to look at what's down there, so that removes it as being the 'easy way in' to the ILZ.... But then, what if you do decide to skip past that reaper and go inside? Then there's the hot water, possible other dangers, and of course a sea dragon. So much for an easy route huh?
Replacing the Dunes Sinkhole with a precursor cache was a mistake. Don't get me wrong, it looks cool. It is cool. The story tidbits were cool. But you removed an entire biome that had potential to stick a small room that loses its purpose after one visit, just to put it there. You'll revisit a cave more than once, you could even build inside it. But the cache? You loot it, download the data, and then its served its purpose for the rest of the game. It's too small to build inside too.
Lastly, I brought up the Crag Fields. The Deep Grand Reef entrance got removed. The “Twisty Bridges” were considered as a possible transition biome to link the two. Now the DGR corridor's been sealed up, but wait - there's still a thought... What if, somehow there was an opening in the Crag Fields? The DGR was removed for two reasons from what I recall. One, was that it was literally right next to the Lost River entrance. Two, was something about the 'gradual change in depth' would confuse people. To me, that's another poor piece of logic and if a player's at that stage of the game and confused about it, then they shouldn't even be there yet. But that aside. This entrance could be carved out so to avoid that “confusion” and then have the Twisty Bridges still link the two. It's a thought, but it'd need some work.
So there we have it. Right now, the Crash Zone Abyss entrance can still be saved. It can be detailed, spiced up, and made into a beautiful thing worthy of the wonderfully intricate world that's being crafted here. Or it can be sealed up in cement, the ILZ will be reduced to a third of its former size, and a huge amount of potential goes down the drain.
UNW is very good at listening to feedback. Look at all they've accomplished, look at all the changes that have been made from us giving feedback. The ILZ can still be made into a vast complex region worthy of being called an Endgame Biome, and become even more fantastic than it already is. UNW carved that tunnel out ages ago, they don't need to fill it in. They can decorate the bottom of the abyss with pieces of the aurora, debris, rocks, and more. They can turn the currently empty HUGE tunnel into a huge masterpiece. I've said it before but I'll say it again, there's a lot of potential here with this corridor. I don't want to see it go to waste.
First, a little explaining. Way back before the Inactive Lava Zone was fleshed out, before it had the beautiful lava flows and the sea dragon was added into the region... The Inactive Lava Zone had three distinct “Corridors” connecting to the center.
They were in the far northwest, in the Dunes...
In the east, at the bottom of the Aurora's front section...
And in the far south, in the Deep Grand Reef.
I'm sure many people first found the Inactive Lava Zone through the Deep Grand Reef. It was the safest way to reach it. I personally first found it through the Aurora Corridor, and didn't know about the Dunes Sinkhole until Markiplier found it
Today, the Deep Grand Reef entrance has been sealed up. The Dunes Sinkhole has been replaced with a Meteor impact and a Precursor Cache. The Crash Zone Abyss corridor is – for the time being – still there. It's in the same unfinished state as the other corridors were way, way, way back when.... But its still there. For now.
When asked about the Lost River's entrances, one of the developers gave a startlingly poor piece of logic that is just wrong in so many ways its unbelievable.
The full quote: “The more entrances and exits the more likely players will explore only half of it before running into an exit and leaving”. Exact quote, no edits.
Think about this for a moment. Subnautica was and still is labeled as an “Underwater exploration game in an open world”. When you think of that, does the idea of actively removing biomes from the game and limiting the player's ability to explore, actually benefit that genre? Would a player really end up never coming back to a biome after leaving it? Isn't their leaving an area THEIR choice? Every exit also serves as an entrance. If the player leaving an area before fully exploring it in one go is that big of a deal, then what you're looking for as a solution is One-Way Entrances that disallow the player from leaving until they complete some objective.
And I don't think that's what any of us want.
Right now, we only have one way into the ILZ and that's through the Lost River. Technically, you can also dive down into the Crash Zone Abyss and go through the – might I add – absolutely massive entrance there, but looking at the logic pointed out above, that might not survive.
Now, here's my thoughts on why I think the Crash Zone Corridor should remain.
First of all, look at that image of the three corridors. Look how massive the Crash Zone corridor is. Think about how the ILZ Chamber currently looks. Think about the one remaining Corrdior and how it looks. Now think about that massive gallery all fleshed out, and how it could look. It has POTENTIAL, and a lot of it.
Second, it passes underneath the Koosh Zone - which the AI Assistant says is a volcanicly active area. This would make sense, to have a corridor beneath it. Maybe there's more they could add, like parts of the organic material from above on the roof of it. Then it passes under the Mountains, they could add Precursor tech down there, the pipes snaking through the roof and down towards the Chamber.... Again, this place has potential here.
Third, the Sea Dragons have been stated to hunt and eat Reaper Leviathans. Coincidentally, two of the three Old Corridors were very wide and spacious and opened up into reaper-infested territory. Heck, they even had reapers patroling directly above them! The Aurora Corridor could have not only massive fissures spewing superhot water and molten rock into the corridor, but have reaper skeletons strewn about along the way.... And then a third Sea Dragon somewhere inside. Putting a skeleton or two in the ILZ Chamber is nice, sure. But putting them in a corridor that opens up to a reaper's habitat is even better. Then you can see very well that the sea dragon goes through there to hunt them. Seeing it in the Chamber... Well, for all we know the precursors brought it down there, or it got lost and died in the harsh environment. Sure, they could just have the scan imply the sea dragon did it in, but there's so many more opportunities here too!
Fourth, the EXPLORATION aspect of this. Exploration games should reward people for straying off the beaten path and taking the time to let their curiosity guide them to every corner of the map, for desiring to explore the world the developers made. This is a location that's in an out of the way spot, so you'd be rewarded for taking the time to see what's down there. Or in reverse, you'd stumble upon it when exploring the ILZ and find yourself in familiar territory - “I never knew that was there!”
Finally, having this here would mean you have OPTIONS. In the early game, you had a lot of freedom in how you wanted to approach the Fragment Hunt. With how the lategame is developing, you don't have many options other than “Do I want to enter the LR through the north or the south?” Having the Aurora Corridor means you'd also be able to go through the Eastern Corridor – which is large enough to be a biome in of itself! But, there's more. The Lost River is – for the most part – quite safe. You're traveling in the exosuit or the Cyclops, and even with the latter damageable now, it still doesn't have the same effect. You see, the Dunes Entrance was a bit of a risk because it had a REAPER parked above it. That served as a deterrent for people, to not approach. Unless they had the invulnerable cyclops. The Aurora Entrance might “look” easier at first glance, but it's also got a Reaper above it. That would keep the average diver from trying to look at what's down there, so that removes it as being the 'easy way in' to the ILZ.... But then, what if you do decide to skip past that reaper and go inside? Then there's the hot water, possible other dangers, and of course a sea dragon. So much for an easy route huh?
Replacing the Dunes Sinkhole with a precursor cache was a mistake. Don't get me wrong, it looks cool. It is cool. The story tidbits were cool. But you removed an entire biome that had potential to stick a small room that loses its purpose after one visit, just to put it there. You'll revisit a cave more than once, you could even build inside it. But the cache? You loot it, download the data, and then its served its purpose for the rest of the game. It's too small to build inside too.
Lastly, I brought up the Crag Fields. The Deep Grand Reef entrance got removed. The “Twisty Bridges” were considered as a possible transition biome to link the two. Now the DGR corridor's been sealed up, but wait - there's still a thought... What if, somehow there was an opening in the Crag Fields? The DGR was removed for two reasons from what I recall. One, was that it was literally right next to the Lost River entrance. Two, was something about the 'gradual change in depth' would confuse people. To me, that's another poor piece of logic and if a player's at that stage of the game and confused about it, then they shouldn't even be there yet. But that aside. This entrance could be carved out so to avoid that “confusion” and then have the Twisty Bridges still link the two. It's a thought, but it'd need some work.
So there we have it. Right now, the Crash Zone Abyss entrance can still be saved. It can be detailed, spiced up, and made into a beautiful thing worthy of the wonderfully intricate world that's being crafted here. Or it can be sealed up in cement, the ILZ will be reduced to a third of its former size, and a huge amount of potential goes down the drain.
UNW is very good at listening to feedback. Look at all they've accomplished, look at all the changes that have been made from us giving feedback. The ILZ can still be made into a vast complex region worthy of being called an Endgame Biome, and become even more fantastic than it already is. UNW carved that tunnel out ages ago, they don't need to fill it in. They can decorate the bottom of the abyss with pieces of the aurora, debris, rocks, and more. They can turn the currently empty HUGE tunnel into a huge masterpiece. I've said it before but I'll say it again, there's a lot of potential here with this corridor. I don't want to see it go to waste.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
World of Tanks is a MOBA based on World War 2 to early 1960's tanks. It's gone through a lot of changes over its 6 years. Of course, every change has its proponents and detractors. But I want to focus on one particular group of changes that after they went in and their impact felt, I've never seen referred to in a positive way, but always negatively.
Originally, the maps available in World of Tanks were open with a lot of bushes for concealment. Light Tanks and other vehicles could maneuver well and flank and sometimes penetrate into an opposing team's rear area. This lead to problems, often with too many tanks camping in bushes and not being active in trying to win their 15 minute battle.
The game developers decided to solves this and related problems by removing bushes and restricting some movement by changing the terrain. Some of these changes helped. But there were too many. This lead to other problems that were then addressed by other changes. And so on.
And now far too maps are really just a bunch of corridors. Sure, there's spots that can be used to move or shoot between the corridors, but far too many maps are now restricted to the action being channeled. That mean tank destroyers that can penetrate all tanks from the front and heavy tanks that can take a bigger beating and perhaps bounce some shots have become much more important.
This trend has now progressed to the point where the solution have become the problem. Leading to other changes trying to solve that and related problems. And some of those fixes not being so good and leading to further changes. And so on.
I think World of Tanks would be today a much better game if those changes to the maps that turned it into far too much of a corridor game hadn't gone as far as they did.
Subnautica is a survival and exploration game. With a story where the sole survivor stays alive, finds out what happened, and determines a way to escape. These are both important. One should not limit the other if possible.
The real world isn't nice and neat with simple paths through all the hinterland. It's wild and complex. And people survive in it. And even write stories about what happens there.
Additional places to discover adds to the game. It made the gameplay crafting more complex in that you can't depend on your player just walking down a linear corridor. But the story is linear and you make your story checkpoints along the linear path of what they find and figure out, not in a literal linear path to travel.
I've struggled at times to find all the good wrecks and fragments to advance in the game. I've asked for ideas about how to deal with this without just looking up locations to search. And I've gotten better at it. No way did I want my problems solved by just ripping out parts of the game.
I hope more of the cool stuff of the ILR is kept in the game and built upon. I haven't even explored it once. I'd hate to have found by the time I get there it's all gone. Just to make it simpler and more like a corridor.
Yeah, right now it seems like the later portion of the game is very... Linear, and not really in a good way. Arguments can be made for or against that, but I feel that MORE places to explore and more COMPLEX cave systems is the way to go for the genre Subnautica's playing as. In the far future, it'd be awesome to see more than one chamber to the Active Lava Zone. It doesn't need to connect to the current one, but there'd be more than one segment to it.
Maybe, in the far future... A year, or several years, from now... The Lost River could be expanded to fit its old draft - where it snaked across the entire map, and had an entrance in the Mushroom Forest and Northeast Mountains.
For now though, let's focus on fleshing out what we currently have. To carve out detail and pour love into what's already there.
In hindsight I'd have tossed my vote into the "All three!" option, too late to edit my vote... However thinking about it... A Crag Field corridor would be something most likely to happen post-1.0, since they'd need to make room for it and carve it out from scratch, while the Aurora Corridor is physically there already and just needs polish. So for now, these two - in the future, all three
I felt that the sullen glow of molten rock was a great reward for venturing to the deepest reaches of the Deep Grand Reef. Otherwise, aside from the Degasi base, there's not much reason to go there. You could argue that the Lost River entrance is a good reason to visit, and it is. But the second Blood Kelp Zone entrance is much bigger and easier to come across.
The devs seem to believe that finding the Inactive Lava Zone before the Lost River could cause gating issues, but the place is so hostile (Especially with the new cyclops update) that players are going to find it very hard to reach the Active Lava Zone.
That's a thought I liked as well, the explosion shook it open. And yeah, more areas - especially optional ones - is never a bad thing in a game like this. As an exploration game it should not be a mostly linear "Follow this path, like this and then go here and do that" sort of game.
Gating issues is hardly a problem when you consider the ILZ's sheer tempturate, the depth of it even in the Corridors, and of course the possibility of a Sea Dragon. Toss those together and whatever gating issues may have ever been on the mind are no longer a concern. Sure, you can swim to the Aurora right off the bat. Can you bypass the reaper? Maybe. Can you swim to the bottom of the abyss? No. Can you do it with an upgraded seamoth? Yes. Can you reach the bottom of the Corridor AND get past the Sea Dragon in it? Not without a Cyclops - and the reaper will likely take a bite out of it on the way down.
As for the Story thing... The exploration part REALLY goes out the window if your progress through the game is directly tied to following a plotline. You're no longer 'exploring' but following a predetermined path. Then you have to consider, what about the people who already cleared the story and are on their next playthrough and might not want to follow it as strictly? What about the people who frankly don't care about the story or following it? Or those playing Creative which disables the story? What about them? UNW has to consider how "Gating by Story" is going to affect those people too. That's not to say this is the reason behind the decisions, but it has to be considered too: Story is important, but it shouldn't be a defining factor in how the game is played and how the player is allowed to progress through the world and what biomes stay and which ones leave.
Accessing story-related locations is another matter of course. The final location in the Active Lava Zone should definitely require you visit the precursor bases, the Quarintine Platform should as well. But naturally occuring biomes should not and they should not be cut because of the story. If a possible back entrance disrupting the linear progression through the story is that big of a deal, then make it that much harder to access said back entrance. Or maybe actually include it in their story! There's two currently unused Artifact colors. Stick another precursor base in the Aurora Corridor, and make it unlockable only by those. It could house more data centers, or even serve as a location for where they disposed of the infected precursor corporeal bodies, or where they stored their memories, or anything. If Story is a driving factor for what stays and what gets cut, then try and include it rather than remove it.
I really hope the devs see this thread (and the other one), and I really truly hope that we can convince them that what's happening to the ILZ Corridors is detrimental to the game in the long run. The Aurora's entrance really should stay, the corridor should stay. The entrance's position has potential, like you pointed out it could be opened up by the Aurora explosion. Maybe that explosion damaged some precursor device/building inside it. There's possibilities here UNW, don't let them pass by!
We already have many things forcing us along the path of the story, when it comes to different required resources for materials only found in certain areas, to even doing mini-missions. This scarcity forces us down the path in order to progress, as it should be. However, restricting how we progress to make it more linear lessens how much we can discover.
I'm more interested in playing the game than telling the story. I honestly didn't buy this game for a story-driven experience. That isn't what this game is, and the story its telling isn't worthy of being called story driven. Half the story is from reading PDAs which isn't what you wanna do when you're driving a narrative in video games.
So yeah, keep the entrances. It's one more thing we get to discover, or since we already know about it, what others get to discover.
Agreed - when I wishlisted Subnautica, it never made mention of a story-driven nature. It promised exploring a large and detailed ocean world. That's what we got. That's what I saw when I finally bought it and played it. Then they started teasing some story, and it excited me. Subnautica was doubling up on its epicness... Then they started restricting your exploration not based on "Do you have a submarine yet?" or such but based on "How far have you progressed in the plot?". If entire biomes are being removed for that reason too, then that's not just a bad thing - that's outright horrible.
But I guess that's how you dance around the whole 'Open World' part of it. RPG's often have some NPC there to tell you "Dude, you can't go down that clearly open and visible path yet! You aren't far enough in the story!! Turn back." even if its not blocked off or anything. It's an invisible barrier and nothing more. An Open World game can't have that, so if a story determines an area isn't useful to the plot but you still want to call the game Open World, you just cut the area. Or..... Make it relevant to the Story somehow.
If - and that's a big IF - these decisions were made because of the story, I haven't seen that reason being given just yet (Then again, I'm not a part of their Discord so what would I know. It's also why I can't bring these threads to their attention...
They can use the White/Red artifacts to open up some facility there, the tunnel itself might have been opened up when the Aurora blew its top... Maybe this facility could be positioned in the Corridor near or underneath the Mountains since it does snake by it. This could be what helps route power from the Chamber to the Quarintine Platform.
There's many ways the Aurora Entrance can be worked in, and can be worked into the story. There's potential here and a lot of good can come from keeping it, but removing it can do so much harm.
as far as direct entrances to the ILZ, I never thought having more options was a bad idea. I didn't consider making recurring trips down there, since there isn't much to do at the moment I usually only make a one way trip down there, just to scope the place out. However if in the future getting to were we need to go may require recurring trips and routes going directly from ILZ to the surface are a must, it would be nice to have more than one choice.
personally if I wanted to make a habitat that was close by to act as a waypoint, I'd much rather build one in the deep grand reef then have to fight reapers at the dunes or the aurora regularly.
Yes, you can still access the Lost River from the Deep Grand, and I think that was one reason why the DGR-ILZ entrance was removed, since they were literally just a few dozen meters apart.
When the game reaches full release, having more than one entrance would definitely benefit the game. I for one really enjoyed the original layout, the idea that there were three entrances in the far reaches of the game and in very deep biomes. One in the west in a god forsaken barren land... One in the south... And one in the east where only the most curious of explorers would find.
Each of them having a long, treacherous corridor to travel through. That's what I'd really like to see post-release, and I'd really like to see the the trench beneath the Aurora's front be where the eastern corridor starts rather than it be relocated. I like the idea of surface-level entry into these biomes. It doesn't have to be "easy" to get to the center just because it's surface-level, and you'd still need the depth upgrades and the like to reach it. There's something fascinating about scouring the seafloor in an abyssal biome and finding an entrance into the depths... And it just going deeper, and deeper, and deeper - beyond your limits. A sensation that you don't get when you're already in a cave and find... An entrance into another cave.
Oh yes indeed - though you'd still have the potential nuisance of crabsquids and warpers as neighbors haha. I used to build a base on the cusp of the Dunes Sinkhole off to the northeastern part of it. It was generally past the Reaper's patrol radius, and approaching in the cyclops (at the time) meant it would pose no threat anyway. It was a base more for 'roleplay purpose' than practical one though heh, pretending I was setting up a base to serve as a supply depot for the subs heading down into the corridor below and the research base down there. If I were to be building a practical base, I'd have it a bit further away, out of sight of any reapers. They scare me ;v;
Do you think it's a larger moonpool that could take the Cyclops surfacing in it? Or more the size of the base Moonpool Room that is really sized for the Seamoth and the PRAWN?
And I've had a strong insight from reading the topic on the Lost River Map. Looking at the map, I thought "Wow, that's a lot of twisty paths. Would be easy to get lost, even with the F1 loc values, without a map."
And then I thought "Is the problem some players are having with the complex area like the 3 branches of the ILR is that there is no ingame map?"
I remember playing "Ultima Underworld" 25 years ago. It had a simple map that was revealed as you explored the tunnels, rooms, and caves. And you could write your own notes on the map. This was a powerful tool that made it possible to explore the complex levels of the game without becoming completely lost.
Is this the problem that Subnautica has that's leading to simplification? That it has no ingame map, even a very simple one? It's one thing to do without a map on upper level which is mostly wide open. You can record locations numbers or put down Beacons. And I remember one YouTuber using a lot of Beacons to make sense of the Lost River and the ILR.
Maybe a simple map would be a better change for both the open game and the story.
My thought is it'd be more Exosuit-sized than Cyclops sized, as the ALZ is currently beyond the maximum limits of the cyclops even upgraded.
The whole mapping thing seems kind of backwards then. Subnautica gets a map. Map gets removed for the sake of making the player explore or something. Some players have a hard time doing this, so Subnautica gets a lot of things to 'help' players (Lifepod beacons and the Sunbeam messages that do the exploring for them). A scanner room is added that shows a 3D representation of the surrounding area and can even scan for Wrecks. A sonar is added to the cyclops. Things continue down like this, doing every possible thing that would assist exploration EXCEPT for adding in a map of any kind.
Granted, I like the lifepod messages. They add a little flavor to the world, but they're also optional to progression. If you want to find everything on your own or are already familiar with 'em, then ignore them. Same with the Sunbeam. I know about the Mountain Island and the platform there, I don't need some innocents shot down because the game thinks its funny to give you a situation where you could make a difference but then says there isn't any way to make a difference. Unlike the lifepods, you *could* make a difference here. e.g. repair some long range comms on the Aurora then send a warning signal. Wouldn't need to be easy for the player, just possible. Said area could be restricted until the Sunbeam event is well underway, maybe once the 30m timer starts. That way it's a race against time and not just a "Hold off until you cure yourself, THEN signal the Sunbeam" sort of cheese approach.
In that sense, I actually kind of liked the old Sunbeam message where they blatantly tell you that you're stuck there, "but we'll put in a message at the next starbase, just hold out for a few years okay?" before leaving the system xD
I'd like to see some alternate routes to take not just in-world, but in-story. Having a few key points in the game's plot where we're given a choice - even if the game doesn't tell us we have a choice - and how we react affects later parts of the game or the ending.
Back onto the ILZ topic though... Many of the important locations - either story important or Fragment/Data important - have some signal directing you to it or at least near it. Except for the Foater Island (As far as I am aware). You're pretty much left to find that on your own. There is some dialogue that says they found some land and would meet up there, but there's no real signal that explicitly points you to it. Now I'm somewhat divided on sticking signals on EVERYTHING like that, there's pros and cons to it and opinions will be divided on if it's a good thing or a bad thing. Some explorers would insist its a bad thing to be shown where to go at every turn, some will say its a good thing since 'Not everyone has the time to get lost here', etc.
However, this got me thinking. Would the Aurora Corridor need a beacon of some sort? Would you perhaps find a terminal on the Aurora that would have picked up some 'data' or something from automated short-range scans on something down below after the ship explodes, while the rest of the data is corrupted from said explosion (Conveniently, it's about to tell you something important before the gibberish kicks in :P ) and so then you'd know "Hey, something's down there - but oh man, there's a Reaper AND I can't reach it yet... Man, it's gotta be something cool or important!"
I guess I assumed that the moonpool would be cyclops sized like what we have at the gun base.
As far as a map goes, I couldn't agree more. This game needs a map that gets filled in as you explore.
Early versions of Subnautica did have a map (or at least so I've heard). The devs apparently removed it in a (IMHO) misguided effort to force the player to get out and explore and not rely on a map. In my experience, it just means I waste more time getting lost, and not being able to easily find things again if I forgot to bring a beacon.
Haha I was just hitting Post Comment when this came up xD
I think removing the map was a bit misguided as well, especially since it was effectively replaced by the Lifepod Signals which direct the player to almost every major Point of Interest and not just nearby, but directly to it. On one hand, it ensures the player will get out of the Safe Shallows and actually do things as well as keeping them from getting lost if they forgot a beacon. On the other, that's cutting out a lot of the exploration on the player's part, by having the game do it for them.
And I think removing the map was gameplay control overkill. There's no reason why with all the tech a player has to survive there wouldn't be some sort of map in it. It could be the companion to the Ping Manager, showing some details, the ping locations, as well as allowing marks and notes to be written directly on the map, just like there was in "Ultima Underworld" 25 years ago. It's not a massive amount of information, but it would be enough to help the player not get completely lost on all levels.
Ah cool. I actually think that's a pretty good step, both gameplay and lore-wise. See, unlike the wrecks, the mountains, and so on.. Which people are likely to find on their own... The Floater Island you're almost certainly going to miss. It's above a fairly deep sea location and on the surface. There's almost no way that you'd stumble across it on your own. Look at Markiplier - he was about as surprised as I was when he first saw it and for good reason: "Was there really anything up here all this time? I was always looking down and not up" Looking down, not up. That's why the island was so easy to miss. In Subnautica you're always looking at what's beneath you, not what's above you.
Yeah and unlike the No Weapons thing they haven't given any real in-game reason for the lack of a map. At the very least they could just say that module got corrupted in the landing or something, which wouldn't be a very good reason but it'd be better than leaving our high-tech survivor wondering why he can't make something as basic as that
Especially since the Scanner Room already does that, just on a smaller more localized scale.
Personally, I'd love to see a map - but for more than just exploration reasons. Oceanography was one of my favorite topics when growing up. I loved reading about the ocean, and SimEarth (Anyone remember that for DOS/SNES?) I adored looking over the charts and graphs about the world I was making - or destroying - despite the complexity of it. I'd love to see a map, that once you get the tech required, would have more than just a projection of the surface on it. Maybe it'd show things like a bathymetric view and color the surface based on the depth, or other things that are there just to look cool. Maybe mapping caves like the Scanner Room does. It wouldn't be something you'd unlock right away though. You'd get the basic map relatively early, and the features would come afterwards.
Speaking of which, the last time I visited the Aurora Corridor was before the Scanner Room was available. Now that they've doubled up on its range... Has anyone taken a Scanner Room down there to play around with it? Or build one atop part of the Koosh Zone and see if it can't detect the corridor underneath?
Would be great if one of the devs sees this thread; so far there's a lot of positivity towards keeping this currently barren entrance, and perhaps even relocating the DGR entrance to the Crag Fields. If that keeps up, maybe we might even be able to get both - keep the current Aurora corridor where it is and see it fleshed out (And oh maaan, think about how awesome that giant of a corridor would be all beautified!) and a crevice in the Crags Fields leading down into the new labyrinthine Twisty Bridges before opening up into a lava corridor... Think about it
I do remember SimEarth. I don't remember much about the game other than the blocky graphics and the fact that it fit on a single 3.5" floppy, and that I usually ended up destroying everything.
Now I'm curious to see what happens if I put scanner rooms everywhere, especially over known caves. Good thing we have creative mode.
The old CZ entrance to the Lava Zone always seemed like a nice reward for the few people who decided to go see what was below the ominous front of the Aurora, and to have it removed just because it's too non-linear for the story seems like such a waste. I might try posting this in the discord to see if I can get their attention on this.
I like the idea of a Crag Field entrance, but I'd prefer if they make the Twisty Bridges a surface biome after v1.0 instead of another cave zone.
Agreed - Story was an awesome addition to Subnautica, but now it seems like its the End All, Be All of the game and the whole point of it, overtaking the freedom of exploration and majesty of the world. If you're not following the story, you're doing it wrong. In that case, they might as well just remove Creative Mode - I mean, if the story's going to be limiting the world itself, why have a mode that disables the Story? And no, I do not want Creative removed. I don't want these biomes removed either. I don't want the entire playable map to be strictly defined by what the Story wants, there SHOULD be optional areas, there SHOULD be totally irrelevant things that are there just to explore.
The Dunes and Crash Zone Abyss entrances definitely were nice rewards for those who went off the beaten path. That was the whole point, to go exploring! If they're concerned about nobody finding it, well... They can either stick a signal there (For whatever reason) or just leave some breadcrumbs of sorts - either on the surface, or in the Chamber itself.
Mmmm yes.... The Twisty Bridges would still be nice on the surface. Where would it go though? Maybe after 1.0, they can extend the map horizontally, and it can be to the south of the Crag Fields...
Mmmm... Perhaps. I think the theoretical Arctic biome would definitely be suited for a teleporter. Maybe, just maybe.... It could be more than a biome - but its own map. Then there'd be sub-biomes. They could reintroduce the Pillars of Silence and other concept biomes worked into there. The Tree of Infinity (I think that was the name?) looked like it'd fit the muhsroom forest, but they could re-work it to fit into the arctic somehow. Then surrounding the Arctic Map would be a void of its own.
Still, it is a thought. I'd like to see the map extended, but you're right in that we'd have to consider how that might affect the current map as well. Plus, it might not be as simple of a matter extending it outwards like that...
Share with us some pictures?
I don't have access to my subnautica-capable laptop right now ;v;
Yeah, I hope so too. Maybe even allow us to save out pictures of the scanner room's output into our PDA, then stick those on picture frames....
I can understand why the DGR entrance was removed. I didn't agree with the Dunes entrance being removed. The Aurora entrance... I really want that one to stay. Not just keeping the corridor then sticking the entrance somewhere else, but keeping the entrance right where it is.
You know those geysers in the Koosh Zone? Maybe they could have some spires in the Aurora Corridor... Like how the UW Islands do. Those would rise up from the floor to the ceiling, and would have glowing fissures along them, and eject steam from vents every so often... ANd above them? The geysers themselves. It'd be some nice continuity, and maybe even some of the pipes running from the Thermal Plant up to the Quarintine Platform can run along through part of it.
Heck, maybe there's a scanner station in this Corridor... That would teach us more about the planet itself. The Lost River is the disease research, where we learn some about the planet's biodiversity and history... This station could be where we learn about its geological history. Then they can stick one of the currently unused artifacts in the Disease Research facility and have those unlock this one. That way, we'd still need to visit the story-relevant Lost River facility, and get some use out of assets that otherwise might just get cut.
Koosh Zone
Grand Reef + Floating Island
Active Lava Zone
Also just noticed but, did they take out the pedestal in the center of the room?
After they boosted the range of the map, I noticed the pedestal often got in the way. I suggested it be removed since there wasn't much reason for it anymore, good to see its not getting in the way anymore. I mean it was a neat addition, but with the range increased there wasn't much point anymore.
And yeah, a way to zoom in and such would be cool.
Still looking at the Aurora Corridor there.... I can imagine someone building a scanner room, and then seeing a corridor underneath them... That "Woah, I didn't know that was there!" feeling is another reason why these would have been so great.
Somehow, it's actually better than I remembered it. The seafloor is all textured (mostly) and the opening to the corridor? I don't remember those rocks jutting out from the floor and ceiling.
Actually, this is sort of how I imagined them detailing it, a foreboding looking entrance, with stalactites and stalagmites reaching out and giving it an almost sinister looking feel to it, maybe looking like it was shattered apart by the Aurora blowing its top....
Anyhow, I went about building a base using the materials from my former one as well as the lockers full of loot I hauled out of the Dunes and went to work examining the place.
It actually felt really good being back in this spot, it was the first time I found the ILZ and on my own too. I hadn't looked up any guides or videos, I just went down there and found this. This entrance is just massive, and I can't help but let my mind wander and think of all the possibilities this has, the potential for where it could go (Figuratively I mean. We know where it goes physically!)
Unfortunately at the back of my mind I also know it has the possibility of being axed for one reason or another, but I'm not letting it go out without a fight! *insert Determined emoticon here*
Nuts. I even re-uploaded them and they still broken
Is something wrong with the image uploader at the moment?
Gonna try linking to them on Steam then...
*Edit* Nope, even direct-linking isn't working. Something is wrong then?
Links to the screenshots themselves then in the meantime xD
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918384819
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918384776
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918384796
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=918384807
There's:
-The Jellyshroom base is relatively close to the southern section of the map
-The Deep Grand Degasi Base is DIRECTLY beneath the Floater Island
-The Lost River is not very far from said Degasi Base
-The Lost River is packed full of story relevant material
-The Lost River is the only current fleshed-out path to the Inactive Lava Zone
And everywhere else? There's a (one-time-use and then utterly useless) Cache in a few biomes, and the Mountain Island which is very easy and safe to get to (Unlike the Northeastern Mountains which is infested with reapers)
Another point for the Aurora Entrance, they should stick a precursor base inside AND keep the current entrance - not relocate it, but keep it where it is - and then possibly have the Red or White artifact be used to unlock it. This artifact could be located say in the Jellyshroom base or in a Cache somewhere?
Right now it really seems a lot of the story progression is jammed into a small area, which I again feel defeats the purpose of an Open World / Exploration game. We should have to EXPLORE across the map for these things and visit MANY locations across it.
I also still firmly believe that - if this is indeed the case here - shaping the world and what the player is or is not allowed to do or allowed to go to based soley on the Story, is a very bad idea. Once again, not everyone cares about the story. Not everyone is going to want to follow it. Some people might be on Creative or only play on Creative. Tying everything down because of the game's story is harming the game for them. Subnautica wasn't advertized as a story-driven survival game when I wishlisted it, it wasn't when I bought it, and the Steam Store page does say you'll unravel a mystery about what happened here but it doesn't say that you're going to be forced into it and limited by it.
The story is important yes. It's amazing, it's entertaining, and there's a lot that can be done with it. But the world surrounding it is ALSO important, and restricting or even removing parts of it because of the story isn't a good idea. What about the Dunes, the Crag Field, the Sea Treader's Path? Other than a cache being stuck into them they're not important to the story at all. And there's the other thing: OPTIONAL side-areas. They're great for people to explore, to just gather resources, build a base in, or just admire the view. Not everything in the game has to be a critical story-driving moment to warrant being there.