When someone says "let alone X", that's not a qualifier. He's not asking why you would build a cyclops that is easy to damage, he is asking why anyone would build a damagable cyclops at all. If that's not what he meant, then he can clarify, but that's what the sentence he posted means. The bolded part emphasizes how bad he thinks things are, but the "let alone" part means that even if the part after "let alone" were not true, he'd still be questioning why you'd build it.
Fun. Make a random rage post, come back to two pages of discussion. And yeah, I do think the cyclops should be destructible... but considering it's made of hardened titanium/plastisteel/space age stuff, it should take more than a random few sharks biting on it. How would said sharks even do damage to it? Surely the hull material is harder than their teeth. And I would expect them to just bounce off if they tried ramming it.
I don't mean to be rude, but the OP literally said this in the comment directly before your own. He flat-out stated that it was a case of him asking why anyone would use this iteration of the Cyclops when it's so imbalanced, as opposed to "why would anyone build a damageable Cyclops at all."
That's just it, though; "working hard" doesn't always equate to "doing the right thing." You can work hard digging a ditch in the middle of your backyard, but that alone means nothing if you don't actually have a reason why - let alone state said reason to any onlookers who voice concern about it.
You are no dev and neither am I. So why do you think they don't know what they are doing? Why so eager to claim the devs are not doing the right thing? I just don't get it where all your distrust is coming from. Is it because they do things they way they see fit? Why do you claim for yourself that your way to a good working Cyclops (balancing the creature damage) is the only or the "right" way to balance it? And where does Obraxis statement read that they won't balance the game? It does exactly the contrary it says: "We have to balance the game.". I just don't get it that you are able to interpret into that and his following line that invulnerable vehicles where never meant to be a thing in this game, that he and the other devs don't know that they could balance the creature damage as one possible solution to a better Cyclops balance.
I trust the devs and I tell you why:
They made a nice looking base as the first early access build that got put on Steam. They implemented more and more features and things upon that. Making the game constantly better and bigger. My proof, that they do know what they are doing, are all those little steps that made the game bigger, better and more beautiful. They never really let me down or disapoint my hopes how the finished game could be. That is why I trust them to make this a great game in the end.
Yes there where some setbacks here and there. But no one can seriously claim they are not making good progress.
I play on a regular basis. Based on the quality and improvement I see in the game from their early builds up to this latest stable version I play. I can see and feel their work and passion in each facette of the game, that is where I base MY trust on that they know what they are doing and that they listen to the community and don't ignore bug reports and forum posts.
Will it be 100% bug free on release day? Maybe, maybe not.
Will it be in a good playable state without major game breaking issues? I bet it will.
Is the game done yet? No it is not.
Is it polished yet? No it is not.
Was every single decision made a good one? Most likely not, but even that could be debated because every player sees things different. What some like, other dislike. You never have a perfect game which everybody likes in all its details.
You can even rewatch all the progress made along the way for each player to see in several "Let's play series" on YT. They did a good job so far and if you play the current version you can't deny it without beeing dishonest or very picky. Most systems work fine and you can enjoy hours over hours in the game if you can live with the fact that this is still "work-in-progress".
If anyone would make a poll about how many players here think/feel the devs are doing a good if not great job, my bet is the majority will be pro devs and not contra.
@ThePassionateGamer That statement goes both ways... unless you are developer you do not know and you can't prove which side is correct. Forums are there for discussions, sadly in this age peoples egos are too fragile and people can't deal with criticism or even opinions that differ from their own.
Short story, person voiced opinion about cyclops being made out of wet toilet paper which rendered the thing useless, I personally agree with it. Lots of hurt people came holding each others wounded apendages and demanding the heretics are exiled.
I've cleared entire field of bone shards under that underwater island... 5+ simultaneously, with nothing but a knife, I don't even need a bloody stasis rifle for it. A large submarine from future that was printed as solid chunk gets eaten in seconds and attracts everyone and their crippled grandmother if it moves just slightly faster then a fish in a desert. It is not useful... it holds no purpose in it's current iteration. You can defend your point that it can still be used and I will say that you can also carve a statue out of a solid chunk of granite with nothing but your finger and enough time, but that doesn't make it logical or even worth it.
My opinion differs only slighty from yours but now I belong to the pitchfork wielding crowd who wants to exile the heretics? Seriously?
I just keep my pro devs stance here and believe they know what they are doing. They earned my trust by delivering good work and steady improvements over a long time. Why should I not voice my opinion?
Cyclops is not done yet, I get it. It still needs balancing, I am with you on that one. I even made a suggestion in other threads based on an early vid of the Cyclops in the experimental version that I would like it to be only damageable by bigger creatures then sharks. So Ampeel and Crabsquid and bigger. I even suggested that the Cyclops gets a PDS like the Seamoth for a better defenses then "just" decoys.
So why do you think I am "the bad guy" here that can't take criticism or can't stand other peoples opinions or have a fragile-ego as you call it? I try to voice my thoughts in a mostly civil manner and with respect to other users and the devs. In return I like to be treated with the same respect. If you can't manage that, I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.
requesting a mod lock for this stupid thread since the op can't be edited. gotta laugh at all the people super seriously replying to a 5 second rage post
I agree. The moderators should end this thread, it's getting out of hand.
I'm sorry, but none of what you said is... well, really all that difficult to do, in my personal opinion. As it stands, it feels like they're looking at the wrong thing or took the complaints the wrong way - a single line of affirmation doesn't seem all that hard by comparison.
DO you know how hard coding is? It's not this:
It's this:
I dunno, the only time I had to pull out non managed asm tools was for cave story. And even then we knew all the function names and positions.
Also is that Unity's assembly I'm seeing here? ಠ_ಠ
I'll admit that over time I've used the cyclops less and less and now it's to the point that I don't even want to make one, but I'm not entirely sure I can attribute that to bad design.
Back in the day the Cyclops was the only vehicle that could explore the deeper areas, before the prawn was implemented. It was slow but you could plant a single lantern fruit tree and you were good for the trip.
Then they nerfed lantern fruit. Now to do the same thing you have to build a garden instead of planting a single tree. So much for taking the thing on long trips to deep biomes. But hey, it's still useful for storage, and at least the reapers will leave you alone.
Now there's a Sea Dragon. Well you might have to get the Cyclops down there with your prawn so that you can get close enough to slip in. Now the Cyclops takes damage and predators are actively seeking it out. So taking it down there at all is incredibly risky, with the only alternative being to just tough it out with a prawn and hope the lava larva, warpers, and sea dragon don't kill us before we slip by. Better get real good with that grappling hook, pack plenty of ammunition for your torpedo arm (and hope it works), or farm to upgrade the jump jets first.
I'm also hearing a lot of conflicting information. Some people citing the Sea Dragon spots you immediately silent mode or not, others saying you are totally invisible. Some people saying the shield lasts for 15 seconds while I watch videos of the shield going down in mere seconds in the lava zones (it seems to dissipate once it takes so much damage, so if you manage to maneuver in such a way that you don't take damage it will last longer, but if the lava lizards/larva are already harassing you it won't last much more then a split second, from what I have seen).
And while some enemies might not see you in silent running, the active and inactive lava zones are very crowded with predators, all of whom can damage the cyclops. It would take some very skilled and very patient piloting to avoid them, if it's possible. I can't imagine the effort being worth it when you can literally walk passed everything but the Dragon in the prawn.
I don't mind that the cyclops isn't invulnerable, but it's invulnerability was the only reason left to build the damn thing. Now despite all these updates there isn't a single feature on the thing that actually gives it any sort of advantage. The only reason to use it is because you like it, and don't mind doing the extra work to build, maintain, and pilot the thing crawling along these massive biomes in silent mode. If that's your jazz then more power to you, but you can't expect other people to accept a feature that has no practical use because of your opinion. The main argument against the cyclops from the beginning was that there was no use for it, and now years later it's just gotten to be more and more work to use this useless feature.
If the intention is to keep it optional then I have no issues leaving it as is. I'm not going to use it anyway.
Why would someone bother making it now that it can be destroyed, let alone destroyed by just about anything? It's a dumb change and should be reverted.
@Herugrim don't completely agree with your position, but I'm close to it and very sympathetic. I hadn't gotten to the Floating Isle before Lantern Fruit was nerfed. I currently use it along with Marblemelon and Chinese Potato with several Pots and Plant Shelves on my Cyclops bridge.
But I don't like how the Cyclops and wildlife aggression is balanced out right now. Especially as I am finally exploring the Lost River and below.
Now there's a Sea Dragon. Well you might have to get the Cyclops down there with your prawn so that you can get close enough to slip in. Now the Cyclops takes damage and predators are actively seeking it out. So taking it down there at all is incredibly risky, with the only alternative being to just tough it out with a prawn and hope the lava larva, warpers, and sea dragon don't kill us before we slip by. Better get real good with that grappling hook, pack plenty of ammunition for your torpedo arm (and hope it works), or farm to upgrade the jump jets first.
I'm also hearing a lot of conflicting information.
I'm hearing a lot of different things as well. Most have some element of extreme risk in passage and wildlife threat for many areas on the map especially in the LR and below.
And as well, there's a Trello note about upping the PRAWN power consumption to restrict its use in exploring the LR-ILR-ALR zones.
Comments
Do you mean like this?
I don't mean to be rude, but the OP literally said this in the comment directly before your own. He flat-out stated that it was a case of him asking why anyone would use this iteration of the Cyclops when it's so imbalanced, as opposed to "why would anyone build a damageable Cyclops at all."
I trust the devs and I tell you why:
They made a nice looking base as the first early access build that got put on Steam. They implemented more and more features and things upon that. Making the game constantly better and bigger. My proof, that they do know what they are doing, are all those little steps that made the game bigger, better and more beautiful. They never really let me down or disapoint my hopes how the finished game could be. That is why I trust them to make this a great game in the end.
Yes there where some setbacks here and there. But no one can seriously claim they are not making good progress.
I play on a regular basis. Based on the quality and improvement I see in the game from their early builds up to this latest stable version I play. I can see and feel their work and passion in each facette of the game, that is where I base MY trust on that they know what they are doing and that they listen to the community and don't ignore bug reports and forum posts.
Will it be 100% bug free on release day? Maybe, maybe not.
Will it be in a good playable state without major game breaking issues? I bet it will.
Is the game done yet? No it is not.
Is it polished yet? No it is not.
Was every single decision made a good one? Most likely not, but even that could be debated because every player sees things different. What some like, other dislike. You never have a perfect game which everybody likes in all its details.
You can even rewatch all the progress made along the way for each player to see in several "Let's play series" on YT. They did a good job so far and if you play the current version you can't deny it without beeing dishonest or very picky. Most systems work fine and you can enjoy hours over hours in the game if you can live with the fact that this is still "work-in-progress".
If anyone would make a poll about how many players here think/feel the devs are doing a good if not great job, my bet is the majority will be pro devs and not contra.
My opinion differs only slighty from yours but now I belong to the pitchfork wielding crowd who wants to exile the heretics?
I just keep my pro devs stance here and believe they know what they are doing. They earned my trust by delivering good work and steady improvements over a long time. Why should I not voice my opinion?
Cyclops is not done yet, I get it. It still needs balancing, I am with you on that one. I even made a suggestion in other threads based on an early vid of the Cyclops in the experimental version that I would like it to be only damageable by bigger creatures then sharks. So Ampeel and Crabsquid and bigger. I even suggested that the Cyclops gets a PDS like the Seamoth for a better defenses then "just" decoys.
So why do you think I am "the bad guy" here that can't take criticism or can't stand other peoples opinions or have a fragile-ego as you call it? I try to voice my thoughts in a mostly civil manner and with respect to other users and the devs. In return I like to be treated with the same respect. If you can't manage that, I see no reason to continue this discussion with you.
I agree. The moderators should end this thread, it's getting out of hand.
I dunno, the only time I had to pull out non managed asm tools was for cave story. And even then we knew all the function names and positions.
Also is that Unity's assembly I'm seeing here? ಠ_ಠ
Dude, where did you get more popcorn?!
Could I get a bucket?
why go with a bucket when you can get a giant bag? xD
Back in the day the Cyclops was the only vehicle that could explore the deeper areas, before the prawn was implemented. It was slow but you could plant a single lantern fruit tree and you were good for the trip.
Then they nerfed lantern fruit. Now to do the same thing you have to build a garden instead of planting a single tree. So much for taking the thing on long trips to deep biomes. But hey, it's still useful for storage, and at least the reapers will leave you alone.
Now there's a Sea Dragon. Well you might have to get the Cyclops down there with your prawn so that you can get close enough to slip in. Now the Cyclops takes damage and predators are actively seeking it out. So taking it down there at all is incredibly risky, with the only alternative being to just tough it out with a prawn and hope the lava larva, warpers, and sea dragon don't kill us before we slip by. Better get real good with that grappling hook, pack plenty of ammunition for your torpedo arm (and hope it works), or farm to upgrade the jump jets first.
I'm also hearing a lot of conflicting information. Some people citing the Sea Dragon spots you immediately silent mode or not, others saying you are totally invisible. Some people saying the shield lasts for 15 seconds while I watch videos of the shield going down in mere seconds in the lava zones (it seems to dissipate once it takes so much damage, so if you manage to maneuver in such a way that you don't take damage it will last longer, but if the lava lizards/larva are already harassing you it won't last much more then a split second, from what I have seen).
And while some enemies might not see you in silent running, the active and inactive lava zones are very crowded with predators, all of whom can damage the cyclops. It would take some very skilled and very patient piloting to avoid them, if it's possible. I can't imagine the effort being worth it when you can literally walk passed everything but the Dragon in the prawn.
I don't mind that the cyclops isn't invulnerable, but it's invulnerability was the only reason left to build the damn thing. Now despite all these updates there isn't a single feature on the thing that actually gives it any sort of advantage. The only reason to use it is because you like it, and don't mind doing the extra work to build, maintain, and pilot the thing crawling along these massive biomes in silent mode. If that's your jazz then more power to you, but you can't expect other people to accept a feature that has no practical use because of your opinion. The main argument against the cyclops from the beginning was that there was no use for it, and now years later it's just gotten to be more and more work to use this useless feature.
If the intention is to keep it optional then I have no issues leaving it as is. I'm not going to use it anyway.
Here is a game for you.
But I don't like how the Cyclops and wildlife aggression is balanced out right now. Especially as I am finally exploring the Lost River and below.
I'm hearing a lot of different things as well. Most have some element of extreme risk in passage and wildlife threat for many areas on the map especially in the LR and below.
And as well, there's a Trello note about upping the PRAWN power consumption to restrict its use in exploring the LR-ILR-ALR zones.
https://trello.com/c/1AL1irnB/6228-exo-power-cell-drain-too-light-players-can-go-all-the-way-to-ilz-and-back-with-juice-to-spare
Says it's been done. May not be in "Silent Running" Stable but must be in Experimental.