Swapping air tanks is tedious and doesn't add anything to the game for me, and detracts quite significantly. How about rethinking air tanks entirely?
But air tanks running out and needing to be equipped to be recharged makes more sense, as the 'magically refilling 13 air tanks just by surfacing' is an unrealistic break from reality, despite being an omission for the sake of a video game. If you were to dive in real life, you'd have to change tanks as too be expected in the game. Now if we're striving for reality, then a tank should last 10 minutes... as well as the day would NOT pass in 10 minutes.
But I think an acceptable change should let us equip a helmet or accessory that helps restoresO2 as you swim - similar to how the Swim Charge Fins slowly restore power to a held device. This would enable longer times underwater without breaking the current rules. This way people won't have to worry about depth times or swapping tanks, but at the exchange of a Signal/Thermometer readout or Rebreather benefit.
I don't play experimental, but I'm really excited by this change and I can't wait until it hits a main patch.
Previously I always carried two tanks, but my latest playthough I decided to challenge myself by only using the paperdoll tank and it's been surprisingly fun - a few tense situations having to manage my air, for sure.
The early game +90 tank sounds a bit much, honestly; that's basically taking the mod station tank and moving it into the first twenty minutes of gameplay. And I definitely feel like the actual high capacity tank isn't much of a benefit considering how long it can take to get the mod station.
I might suggest 30/60/80/110 (giving the lightweight tank still a bit more oxygen than the early game tank).
I would also strongly suggest that the speed penalty be included in the tank's mouseover info - it took me a couple dozen hours of gameplay to realize that it was even a thing, or what the point of the lightweight tank was.
WheeljackChilling in the Grand ReefJoin Date: 2016-03-17Member: 214338Members
I remember when they first rolled out this change. Not happy to see it back, but I will put forth my compromise that I put forth then: let us put two tanks on our back. It'd be as easy as ditching the gloves and making it a tank slot instead. Just make the two sets of gloves we have be part of the main suit they go with.
It that's not an option, my next suggestion would be to buff the +110 tanks to something a little higher. The 20s of air over the ultra light tanks is not enough incentive for me. I value speed most times. An extra 30s or 40s, however, help it stand out a bit better and make it more attractive despite the speed hit.
I wonder how this discussion about balance would be if you needed to recharge your tank (or some other tank) with a compressor.
I haven't tested the experimental, so I have no opinion on it.
The current balance sounded somewhat ok for me, I only occasionally wonder if you need another "gated" improvement as a late game anti-frustration measure (or to dive for a while in the deepest part)
I have had this game for a couple months now and love it and just realized there was an experimental version and when i switched and saw this change i instantly noped out of it and put it back to the stable version and i hope they never bring this to the stable version or if they do its only to hardcore. there has been several times where if i had to stop and remove my current tank then equip a new one i would have died by the time i got back to the seamoth for air cause it couldnt go low enough cause of depth and what i needed was far away from it, i needed the 4 air tanks that worked instantly together to be able to get back and even then i still died twice due to suffocation. the changes to the cyclops irritated me making it so i ran out of battery power within seconds if i used the flood lights where before i could run for lot longer but this change would make me stop playing. those who say this is good because it makes sense and is more realistic well i say its a video game set on an alien planet, nothing about it is realistic, you want it to be more realistic play hardcore and they can put this there but leave the normal survival mode the way it was please.
I've been running in stable with only a single tank to prep for this change; the only time I've suffocated was when I got lost in a wreck badly enough that another 60 seconds of air probably wouldn't have been enough (don't hit the grand reef wreck without a rebreather, folks).
It requires changing up your gameplay a bit and planning more, but not in an obnoxious way. In the end I am actually having more fun exploring because I can carry more; I don't feel the need to fill up half my inventory with oxygen tanks.
In stable I've never carried more than two high capacity tanks (one equipped, one in the inventory) for the larger wrecks. Sometimes it took multiple trips to fully explore them, but if I parked my Seamoth just outside the entrance (and saved after every trip in case I got stuck/lost) it was manageable. It was even enough air to make it all the way to the surface from the Lost River using a Seaglide (long story, drove my Cyclops in there and given how annoying it was to get it in there in the first, place I wasn't about to drive all the way back out again to go get my Seamoth from my base since the Cyclops had a Prawn at the time).
The new system sounds like it will provide a comparable amount of air without taking up nearly as much inventory space, so I don't see too much of a problem with it. I wouldn't mind even higher capacity tanks though, we can never have too much O2 while diving (at least until oxygen toxicity starts kicking in...).
The new system is more of my taste and with 2 tanks i have now 265 seconds total instead of 165 seconds with the old system. But i don't like the circumstance that a oxygen tank needs now 9 inventory slots! Whatever, the new oxygen management would work much better with 2 changes:
A oxygen indicator in inventory, like the power indicator for batterys.
The possibility to directly swap the oxygen tank. At the moment we must first remove the tank from paperdoll UI before we can put in another oxygen tank. This is annoying!
Edit: addition to my suggestion
Oxygen tanks need a refill station in a base and in the Cyclops. You can mount it to walls like a battery charger with the Habitat Builder tool.
The new system is more of my taste and with 2 tanks i have now 265 seconds total instead of 165 seconds with the old system. But i don't like the circumstance that a oxygen tank needs now 9 inventory slots!
I think this now really makes Ultra High Capacity Tank worse than the Lightweight High Capacity Tank. All other tanks are 2x3 inventory slots, same size as the new slimmer Seaglide. The High Capacity Tank and the Lightweight High Capacity Tank also provide 15 oxygen per inventory square, while the Ultra tank provides 12.222.... Might as well take 2 Lightweight tanks.
I still think like @EkUl a tank swap system is needed, sort of like the Battery one. I think larger wrecks demand that you take a spare tank or two and now you need to keep 6 inventory slots free to swap. You STILL can't see how much oxygen is in a tank via mouse-hover, like you can with batteries. And tanks not in your paperdoll are STILL not automatically filled. So you STILL have to swap in all your tanks to make sure they're filled before a swimout.
SAFETY NOTE: When adding and removing similar items in the inventory (like tanks) the one you put in is on the rightmost and lower.
Interesting. I only have UHC tanks, so i didn't realize that the other versions have different sizes. Ok, in addition to your start post the current tank status in Experimental (49687):
O2 Tank Oxygen Speed Made With Components Size CPI
No tank 45s 5.7m/s - - - -
Standard +30s -0.4m/s Fabricator 1xGlass, 2xTitanium 2x3 5.0
High Capacity +90s -0.4m/s Fabricator 1xStandard O2 Tank, 2xGlass, 4xTitanium, 1xSilver 2x3 15.0
Lightweight High Capacity +90s -0.1m/s Mod Station 1xHigh Capacity O2 Tank, 1xPlasteel Ingot 2x3 15.0
Ultra High Capacity +110s -0.6m/s Mod Station 1xHigh Capacity O2 Tank, 4xLithium 3x3 12.2
CPI = Capacity Per Inventory-slot.
Edit: added CPI and used Jacke's formatted list which i changed a bit.
SAFETY NOTE: When adding and removing similar items in the inventory (like tanks) the one you put just put in is on the rightmost and lower.
Thanks, this is helpfully as long we have no oxygen indicator.
With the new oxygen tank system inclusive the smaller Seaglide i have 7 inventory slots more than before, minus 10 seconds oxygen. That's really welcome! :-)
I think this now really makes Ultra High Capacity Tank worse than the Lightweight High Capacity Tank. All other tanks are 2x3 inventory slots, same size as the new slimmer Seaglide.
The Seaglide is now 2x3 inventory space?! Awesome! How about the Mobile Vehicle Bay, is it 2x3 also or is it still stuck at 3x3?
Interesting. I only have UHC tanks, so i didn't realize that the other versions have different sizes. Ok, in addition to your start post the current tank status in Experimental (49687):
Hey, thanks, dude, for updating my table info. I've editted the OP including giving credit to you for the update.
I started a new Experimental game to test out how things are from start. I got the High Capacity Tank as soon as found Silver. Most of the early game I went with just the one HC Tank in the paperdoll.
I had a marathon test of the Floating Pump and Pipes exploring the wreck near Lifepod 17. Brought just the paperdoll High Capacity Tank but also 20 Pipes as they are only each 10m long and the wreck is down about 100m. Built a Pipe line down to high entrance and explored it out. Found a 2nd entrance I've never located before and thoroughly explored the wreck. Had used up the rest of the pipes to extend the line forward to the 2nd entrance. Almost died when I got lost coming back and just made it to the Pipe outlet.
I should have brought a 2nd HC Tank. I did that when I explored the Abandonned Base in the Jelly Shroom Caves (Seamoth could only come down to ceiling level around 190m). One trip almost got me everything and I only made a second trip down from the Seamoth to be thorough.
I found the Pipes were very awkward and I've never used them again. And what happens when I get wrecks below 200m? Too bad can't attach Pipes to the Seamoth or the Cyclops, which could come closer to the wrecks. Having the Seamoth as close as possible and 1 spare tank (possibly 2) should be good for the rest of the wrecks.
HOWEVER, as there isn't a swap system as with batteries, you either need to keep 6 spaces free to swap tanks or do a complex drop and pick up dance. As you have to:
1. Drop the full spare tank.
2. Remove the empty tank from paperdoll to inventory.
3. Drop the empty tank.
4. Pick up the full spare tank.
5. Move full spare tank to paperdoll (ah, more oxygen!)
6. Pick up empty tank.
there's a lot more room to make mistakes.
I highly suggest keeping 6 empty inventory slots for swapping tanks.
I understand you and all others who don't like the changes. But you should also understand the other players who like it. So, please have a look at the topic Custom game mode i bumped to the first page yesterday. The more players give that topic a relevance, the better the chance that the devs will think about it.
And voicing opinions like that, without the need of a custom game mode, are what (in theory) prevent detrimental ideas under testing in Experimental from gaining root on Stable. The addition of a new game mode (which, by the looks of the OP of that thread, is just an easier way to use console commands) just to accomodate everyone contrary to some ideas is, with all due respect, naive on it's inception. Once something hits Stable, no matter how broken it is, bye bye to any kind of hope of removing it. No matter how detrimental it proves to be on the long run.
I really think the new tank system can be a big improvement over the old one if it's fleshed out a bit more. UWE should just add the two points we've been talking about over and over again.
1. Like batteries, add charge level to mouse-hover over the tanks.
2. Like batteries, provide a swap system to swap tanks between the paperdoll and inventory without needing empty spaces in inventory or dropping tanks.
I really really want that swap system. Just did a wreck run with a spare tank. After that, before returning to base, I did a resource run in the GR primarily for Aluminium Oxide. Got to the point I didn't have the spaces to swap tanks and as I was in the Seamoth pre-Vehicle Modification Station, so I couldn't remove the tank nor use it.
With these additions, the new system is as convenient as the old one while only needing a bit more materials and using much less inventory space. This is assuming using High Capacity Tanks or Lightweight High Capacity Tanks.
1. Free swimming for fish or resources: 6 spaces for Seaglide as no spare tanks (surface or return to vessel/base within 135s).
2. Wreck exploration: 12 or 18 spaces for Seaglide and 1 or 2 spare tanks
As well, in my opinion, the Ultra High Capacity Tank at 110s and taking up 9 spaces is going to be an unused item and should be changed. Whether using any Fins, the Lightweight HC Tank is a superior choice except in the rare case of using no spares (so the 3 extra inventory space size doesn't come into play) and always using the Seaglide (so the extra drag isn't a factor). 20 more seconds of oxygen isn't enough difference.
2017 Jun 21: These changes are now in Stable with version Voice of the Deep.
For exploring wrecks, I have used 2 HC Tanks/LW HC Tanks, 1 in the paperdoll model and 1 spare, and swapped between them. This still gets close to being too little in some case and perhaps I should have used 2 spare tanks.
For single tank use, as I always have the 2x3 Seaglide, especially with the Swim Charge Fins, I have used a single Ultra HC Tank in the paperdoll just to get the extra 20s; but never for multitank use as its 9x9 size makes it far too awkward for that.
Even on Xbox where you don't have to swap tanks (yet), I have become Extremely Cautious when exploring wrecks. I learn the layout as best I can, cut doors open, follow vents to see where they go, then go back to the Seamoth for more air before heading back in. Basically, I want to make sure I know the way out before I get too invested in looking around. Once I know that, I'll take my time in a given room. This can make it take a lot longer to explore a wreck, but it's worth not drowning, IMO.
Speaking of air pumps, I was thinking that it wouldn't be that big of a deal to carry enough materials to build a small base and then a base-attached pump so you wouldn't have to stretch pipes down from the surface. Then when you're done, just disassemble it if you like. Carrying enough mats to build power for it would probably be a pain, though, and the whole idea of probably more trouble than it's worth.
I think someone mentioned in another thread the idea of temporary power to a base using power cells, but then I was like, why not make an air pump that attaches to the Cyclops? Something like that on the Seamoth would be way OP, IMO, but wouldn't be that much of a stretch for the Cyclops, I think.
Even on Xbox where you don't have to swap tanks (yet), I have become Extremely Cautious when exploring wrecks. I learn the layout as best I can, cut doors open, follow vents to see where they go, then go back to the Seamoth for more air before heading back in.
I take care while exploring wrecks and even with a spare tank, I usually did 2 or 3 runs from a given entrance. It is far too easy to get disoriented, especially when you've go to go back through several passages. Far too many times I found myself in a room and couldn't remember the exit. Almost died once when I just managed to get back to an Air Pipe in time.
Speaking of air pumps, I was thinking that it wouldn't be that big of a deal to carry enough materials to build a small base and then a base-attached pump so you wouldn't have to stretch pipes down from the surface.
I agree with you that this would likely be too much effort for an exploration that should take about 10-15 minutes. Whipping up an MPR with a Bio or Nuclear Reactor and an Air Pump would take about a minute, but laying down Pipes to the entrances and partway in, then taking up the Pipes would be a major pain. Not that much resources, and you could abandon much of it. But the risky wrecks are the ones before you get Upgrade Modules or vessels beyond the Seamoth, so you're packing it out in Inventory. It'll take more room than 2 spare 2x3 tanks and the 2x3 empty spot to swap. And I'm very sure 2 spare 90s are enough to safely explore all wrecks with a vessel nearby.
I think someone mentioned in another thread the idea of temporary power to a base using power cells, but then I was like, why not make an air pump that attaches to the Cyclops? Something like that on the Seamoth would be way OP, IMO, but wouldn't be that much of a stretch for the Cyclops, I think.
I thought of that one too. I don't think we'll see such a major change before release. And it doesn't solve the tediousness of putting down and picking up the Pipes.
I wouldn't mind the air tanks if it just automatically swapped them out for us.
It could give a little prompt to you in corner of screen that some inventory fiddling happened. Like when you get reclaimed water or swap a battery. And maybe add a PDA voice prompt warning you if you're on your last O2 tank. That way it could satisfy the "ermagerd, not real enough" crowd without sacrificing convenience.
And since people are so hellbent on inconvenient realism.. I dunno. Make it so only the "active" tank in the paper doll is refilled when you surface/enter vehicle. That way you still have incentive to switch them out manually at some point but it doesn't force you to constantly stop everything you're doing all the time while exploring.
And voicing opinions like that, without the need of a custom game mode, are what (in theory) prevent detrimental ideas under testing in Experimental from gaining root on Stable. The addition of a new game mode (which, by the looks of the OP of that thread, is just an easier way to use console commands) just to accomodate everyone contrary to some ideas is, with all due respect, naive on it's inception. Once something hits Stable, no matter how broken it is, bye bye to any kind of hope of removing it. No matter how detrimental it proves to be on the long run.
But they added oxygen-providing resources (Seabases and the Seamoth) drawing continuous power in exchange for providing O2, to the point you'd lose all power by doing nothing in game (either sitting still in the Seamoth, or standing around in a solar-powered base at night) to the Stable version, but that was removed. Also they reduced the SeaGlide's functionality by quadrupling its energy consumption in the Stable version, but that also was removed (and they halved the SG's light consumption to boot!). Both were questionable design choices, but they were added to and subsequently removed from the Stable version of Subnautica... so I wouldn't be so bold to say unfavorable changes added to Stable are never removed from it.
I think someone mentioned in another thread the idea of temporary power to a base using power cells, but then I was like, why not make an air pump that attaches to the Cyclops? Something like that on the Seamoth would be way OP, IMO, but wouldn't be that much of a stretch for the Cyclops, I think.
A technical bit to consider there is that the pipes and bases are meant to be static, while vehicles are not. What's supposed to happen if you drive off with pipes still attached or if you're under attack by a leviathan? The Cyclops could be auto-locked when pipes are attached as the easiest solution for the former, but I'm not sure how the latter should be handled.
WheeljackChilling in the Grand ReefJoin Date: 2016-03-17Member: 214338Members
edited June 2017
Coming back to throw in a modified opinion after playing on experimental and the new update. I didn't want this change when it first intrduced, and I certainly didnt want it back but after playing for a while, I have to say the change didn't actually effect my gameplay much.
Maybe it was the sizeable break I took from playing before coming back, but one HC tank has been more than enough to get me through the beginning and through several wrecks with no drowning. I think part of the back lash is we're all too used to passive tanks and completing wrecks in one go. You can stilll fully explore a wreck with one tank but it takes planning and multiple trips now. Not impossible, but certainly time consuming for bigger ones. It definitely made the tension and fear of drowning more potent. I think this may be the way the devs intended wrecks to be handled. I seem to remember them saying they want that tension for wrecks. It adds value to the dive reel and air bladder too.
I still think the Ultra HC tank needs a buff to make it more attracrive over its lightweight counterpart, but I am at ease with this change now.
And voicing opinions like that, without the need of a custom game mode, are what (in theory) prevent detrimental ideas under testing in Experimental from gaining root on Stable. The addition of a new game mode (which, by the looks of the OP of that thread, is just an easier way to use console commands) just to accomodate everyone contrary to some ideas is, with all due respect, naive on it's inception. Once something hits Stable, no matter how broken it is, bye bye to any kind of hope of removing it. No matter how detrimental it proves to be on the long run.
But they added oxygen-providing resources (Seabases and the Seamoth) drawing continuous power in exchange for providing O2, to the point you'd lose all power by doing nothing in game (either sitting still in the Seamoth, or standing around in a solar-powered base at night) to the Stable version, but that was removed. Also they reduced the SeaGlide's functionality by quadrupling its energy consumption in the Stable version, but that also was removed (and they halved the SG's light consumption to boot!). Both were questionable design choices, but they were added to and subsequently removed from the Stable version of Subnautica... so I wouldn't be so bold to say unfavorable changes added to Stable are never removed from it.
Fair enough. However, changes like the oxygen tanks on the paperdoll were tried before, and rebutted by the community. It continued normal for some updates, but, even with the previous backlash, it didn't stop this change to be included again. So, yes, I wasn't being bold saying unfavorable changes are never removed, because while some of this changes are later modified on next updates, some others return to the game at a later date, even unfavorable ones.
... People were insisting on completing wrecks in one go? I always just swam in and ducked back out to my Seamoth to refill my air.
Same. The thrill whether or not you'll make it, disorientation kicking in, and that last ditch attempt to reach your vehicle timely as the screen fades to black already is delightful and easily the game's most potent reminder you're underwater.
Comments
But air tanks running out and needing to be equipped to be recharged makes more sense, as the 'magically refilling 13 air tanks just by surfacing' is an unrealistic break from reality, despite being an omission for the sake of a video game. If you were to dive in real life, you'd have to change tanks as too be expected in the game. Now if we're striving for reality, then a tank should last 10 minutes... as well as the day would NOT pass in 10 minutes.
But I think an acceptable change should let us equip a helmet or accessory that helps restoresO2 as you swim - similar to how the Swim Charge Fins slowly restore power to a held device. This would enable longer times underwater without breaking the current rules. This way people won't have to worry about depth times or swapping tanks, but at the exchange of a Signal/Thermometer readout or Rebreather benefit.
Previously I always carried two tanks, but my latest playthough I decided to challenge myself by only using the paperdoll tank and it's been surprisingly fun - a few tense situations having to manage my air, for sure.
The early game +90 tank sounds a bit much, honestly; that's basically taking the mod station tank and moving it into the first twenty minutes of gameplay. And I definitely feel like the actual high capacity tank isn't much of a benefit considering how long it can take to get the mod station.
I might suggest 30/60/80/110 (giving the lightweight tank still a bit more oxygen than the early game tank).
I would also strongly suggest that the speed penalty be included in the tank's mouseover info - it took me a couple dozen hours of gameplay to realize that it was even a thing, or what the point of the lightweight tank was.
It that's not an option, my next suggestion would be to buff the +110 tanks to something a little higher. The 20s of air over the ultra light tanks is not enough incentive for me. I value speed most times. An extra 30s or 40s, however, help it stand out a bit better and make it more attractive despite the speed hit.
I haven't tested the experimental, so I have no opinion on it.
The current balance sounded somewhat ok for me, I only occasionally wonder if you need another "gated" improvement as a late game anti-frustration measure (or to dive for a while in the deepest part)
It requires changing up your gameplay a bit and planning more, but not in an obnoxious way. In the end I am actually having more fun exploring because I can carry more; I don't feel the need to fill up half my inventory with oxygen tanks.
The new system sounds like it will provide a comparable amount of air without taking up nearly as much inventory space, so I don't see too much of a problem with it. I wouldn't mind even higher capacity tanks though, we can never have too much O2 while diving (at least until oxygen toxicity starts kicking in...).
Edit: addition to my suggestion
I still think like @EkUl a tank swap system is needed, sort of like the Battery one. I think larger wrecks demand that you take a spare tank or two and now you need to keep 6 inventory slots free to swap. You STILL can't see how much oxygen is in a tank via mouse-hover, like you can with batteries. And tanks not in your paperdoll are STILL not automatically filled. So you STILL have to swap in all your tanks to make sure they're filled before a swimout.
SAFETY NOTE: When adding and removing similar items in the inventory (like tanks) the one you put in is on the rightmost and lower.
Edit: added CPI and used Jacke's formatted list which i changed a bit.
Thanks, this is helpfully as long we have no oxygen indicator.
With the new oxygen tank system inclusive the smaller Seaglide i have 7 inventory slots more than before, minus 10 seconds oxygen. That's really welcome! :-)
The Seaglide is now 2x3 inventory space?! Awesome!
Still 3x3 in current Experimental (49707).
I started a new Experimental game to test out how things are from start. I got the High Capacity Tank as soon as found Silver. Most of the early game I went with just the one HC Tank in the paperdoll.
I had a marathon test of the Floating Pump and Pipes exploring the wreck near Lifepod 17. Brought just the paperdoll High Capacity Tank but also 20 Pipes as they are only each 10m long and the wreck is down about 100m. Built a Pipe line down to high entrance and explored it out. Found a 2nd entrance I've never located before and thoroughly explored the wreck. Had used up the rest of the pipes to extend the line forward to the 2nd entrance. Almost died when I got lost coming back and just made it to the Pipe outlet.
I should have brought a 2nd HC Tank. I did that when I explored the Abandonned Base in the Jelly Shroom Caves (Seamoth could only come down to ceiling level around 190m). One trip almost got me everything and I only made a second trip down from the Seamoth to be thorough.
I found the Pipes were very awkward and I've never used them again. And what happens when I get wrecks below 200m? Too bad can't attach Pipes to the Seamoth or the Cyclops, which could come closer to the wrecks. Having the Seamoth as close as possible and 1 spare tank (possibly 2) should be good for the rest of the wrecks.
HOWEVER, as there isn't a swap system as with batteries, you either need to keep 6 spaces free to swap tanks or do a complex drop and pick up dance. As you have to:
1. Drop the full spare tank.
2. Remove the empty tank from paperdoll to inventory.
3. Drop the empty tank.
4. Pick up the full spare tank.
5. Move full spare tank to paperdoll (ah, more oxygen!)
6. Pick up empty tank.
there's a lot more room to make mistakes.
I highly suggest keeping 6 empty inventory slots for swapping tanks.
PS : I never played with more than one .. Except losing our way inside a wreck, everything should be okay with only one
For You.
Certainly glad your particular playstyle is being accommodated with these changes...
It will probably drive me and perhaps many others away from the game.
But They already have my money, so I guess it really doesn't matter.
You're welcome. It's your list, i added only the new informations we talked about. ^^
@DaveNY
I understand you and all others who don't like the changes. But you should also understand the other players who like it. So, please have a look at the topic Custom game mode i bumped to the first page yesterday. The more players give that topic a relevance, the better the chance that the devs will think about it.
And voicing opinions like that, without the need of a custom game mode, are what (in theory) prevent detrimental ideas under testing in Experimental from gaining root on Stable. The addition of a new game mode (which, by the looks of the OP of that thread, is just an easier way to use console commands) just to accomodate everyone contrary to some ideas is, with all due respect, naive on it's inception. Once something hits Stable, no matter how broken it is, bye bye to any kind of hope of removing it. No matter how detrimental it proves to be on the long run.
1. Like batteries, add charge level to mouse-hover over the tanks.
2. Like batteries, provide a swap system to swap tanks between the paperdoll and inventory without needing empty spaces in inventory or dropping tanks.
I really really want that swap system. Just did a wreck run with a spare tank. After that, before returning to base, I did a resource run in the GR primarily for Aluminium Oxide. Got to the point I didn't have the spaces to swap tanks and as I was in the Seamoth pre-Vehicle Modification Station, so I couldn't remove the tank nor use it.
With these additions, the new system is as convenient as the old one while only needing a bit more materials and using much less inventory space. This is assuming using High Capacity Tanks or Lightweight High Capacity Tanks.
1. Free swimming for fish or resources: 6 spaces for Seaglide as no spare tanks (surface or return to vessel/base within 135s).
2. Wreck exploration: 12 or 18 spaces for Seaglide and 1 or 2 spare tanks
As well, in my opinion, the Ultra High Capacity Tank at 110s and taking up 9 spaces is going to be an unused item and should be changed. Whether using any Fins, the Lightweight HC Tank is a superior choice except in the rare case of using no spares (so the 3 extra inventory space size doesn't come into play) and always using the Seaglide (so the extra drag isn't a factor). 20 more seconds of oxygen isn't enough difference.
For exploring wrecks, I have used 2 HC Tanks/LW HC Tanks, 1 in the paperdoll model and 1 spare, and swapped between them. This still gets close to being too little in some case and perhaps I should have used 2 spare tanks.
For single tank use, as I always have the 2x3 Seaglide, especially with the Swim Charge Fins, I have used a single Ultra HC Tank in the paperdoll just to get the extra 20s; but never for multitank use as its 9x9 size makes it far too awkward for that.
Speaking of air pumps, I was thinking that it wouldn't be that big of a deal to carry enough materials to build a small base and then a base-attached pump so you wouldn't have to stretch pipes down from the surface. Then when you're done, just disassemble it if you like. Carrying enough mats to build power for it would probably be a pain, though, and the whole idea of probably more trouble than it's worth.
I think someone mentioned in another thread the idea of temporary power to a base using power cells, but then I was like, why not make an air pump that attaches to the Cyclops? Something like that on the Seamoth would be way OP, IMO, but wouldn't be that much of a stretch for the Cyclops, I think.
I agree with you that this would likely be too much effort for an exploration that should take about 10-15 minutes. Whipping up an MPR with a Bio or Nuclear Reactor and an Air Pump would take about a minute, but laying down Pipes to the entrances and partway in, then taking up the Pipes would be a major pain. Not that much resources, and you could abandon much of it. But the risky wrecks are the ones before you get Upgrade Modules or vessels beyond the Seamoth, so you're packing it out in Inventory. It'll take more room than 2 spare 2x3 tanks and the 2x3 empty spot to swap. And I'm very sure 2 spare 90s are enough to safely explore all wrecks with a vessel nearby.
I thought of that one too. I don't think we'll see such a major change before release. And it doesn't solve the tediousness of putting down and picking up the Pipes.
It could give a little prompt to you in corner of screen that some inventory fiddling happened. Like when you get reclaimed water or swap a battery. And maybe add a PDA voice prompt warning you if you're on your last O2 tank. That way it could satisfy the "ermagerd, not real enough" crowd without sacrificing convenience.
And since people are so hellbent on inconvenient realism.. I dunno. Make it so only the "active" tank in the paper doll is refilled when you surface/enter vehicle. That way you still have incentive to switch them out manually at some point but it doesn't force you to constantly stop everything you're doing all the time while exploring.
But they added oxygen-providing resources (Seabases and the Seamoth) drawing continuous power in exchange for providing O2, to the point you'd lose all power by doing nothing in game (either sitting still in the Seamoth, or standing around in a solar-powered base at night) to the Stable version, but that was removed. Also they reduced the SeaGlide's functionality by quadrupling its energy consumption in the Stable version, but that also was removed (and they halved the SG's light consumption to boot!). Both were questionable design choices, but they were added to and subsequently removed from the Stable version of Subnautica... so I wouldn't be so bold to say unfavorable changes added to Stable are never removed from it.
A technical bit to consider there is that the pipes and bases are meant to be static, while vehicles are not. What's supposed to happen if you drive off with pipes still attached or if you're under attack by a leviathan? The Cyclops could be auto-locked when pipes are attached as the easiest solution for the former, but I'm not sure how the latter should be handled.
Maybe it was the sizeable break I took from playing before coming back, but one HC tank has been more than enough to get me through the beginning and through several wrecks with no drowning. I think part of the back lash is we're all too used to passive tanks and completing wrecks in one go. You can stilll fully explore a wreck with one tank but it takes planning and multiple trips now. Not impossible, but certainly time consuming for bigger ones. It definitely made the tension and fear of drowning more potent. I think this may be the way the devs intended wrecks to be handled. I seem to remember them saying they want that tension for wrecks. It adds value to the dive reel and air bladder too.
I still think the Ultra HC tank needs a buff to make it more attracrive over its lightweight counterpart, but I am at ease with this change now.
Fair enough. However, changes like the oxygen tanks on the paperdoll were tried before, and rebutted by the community. It continued normal for some updates, but, even with the previous backlash, it didn't stop this change to be included again. So, yes, I wasn't being bold saying unfavorable changes are never removed, because while some of this changes are later modified on next updates, some others return to the game at a later date, even unfavorable ones.
Same. The thrill whether or not you'll make it, disorientation kicking in, and that last ditch attempt to reach your vehicle timely as the screen fades to black already is delightful and easily the game's most potent reminder you're underwater.