<!--QuoteBegin--Boy Wonder+Feb 11 2003, 09:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boy Wonder @ Feb 11 2003, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or better yet this totaly **** this game up and make every sentry as good as the TFC Sentry. Hello! No matter how hard things are or easy we learn to get past each challenge. Unless its too insane. Other then that if you practice and put your mind to it you can do more **** then you expected. Honestly folks the human race learns to adapt fast at a hard paced lvl, try it and stop bitching! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That seem to be what some people want.
They are fine as they are, any enhancements will make them overpowered and skulk-proof. Only the marines who want to farm and forget want them better.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Pre-release turrets did not require a factory to function. With one upgrade - either carapace or celerity - I could take out as many as 3 turrets by myself. It only takes time.
The problem with 1.0 was not the turrets themselves, but a skewed resource system that allowed marines to produce ridiculous numbers of them. I loathe the fact that a ~100-RP turret defense can be rendered useless by a single skulk taking out a single turret.
That said, marines are already overpowered; I dunno. We'll see.
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Feb 11 2003, 10:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Feb 11 2003, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That said, marines are already overpowered <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That goes into my sig <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Now I just need Flay saying that <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--Inexorable+Feb 11 2003, 12:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Inexorable @ Feb 11 2003, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That is an interesting idea with ammo though. I'm sure it would be incredibly difficult to code, but if all the sentries had a bit of ammo stored in them which the TF replaced constantly, that would allow the TF to go down for a short period of time without the entire field shutting down immediately. If you couldn't get another TF up quickly all your sentries would soon run out of ammo, but at least it would be more of a deterrent than the "Kill one sentry and yell 'Hive X is clear' over voicecomm" of today. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is an excellent idea. I think it strikes the the perfect balance between reliance on and independence from the turret factory. To compensate for this, increase the time that it takes to build a turret factory. Maybe increase its cost a little.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zenn+Feb 11 2003, 02:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zenn @ Feb 11 2003, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is funny, obviously most of the posters here are the types who stand in the marine tunnels saying "go aliens guys, geez!" while never actually going aliens themselfs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Tell that to any of the Old Fogies. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think a lot of the posters here (myself, coil and Silverfox especially) are Kharaa players who see a big bunch of turrets and think "Mmmm... snacktime"
Just to repeat, I don't want farming. Before this change, my favorite use of the TF was to plop it down somewhere, set up 2-4 turrets (2/node,3/double,4/hive) and then recycle the TF. It cuts down on the cover that Skulks get while biting the turrets, and gets me back 12-15 RP. Sure, if I want to build more turrets I need to re-build the TF, but unless it's a hive, or major battle point, I couldn't be bothered to re-build the turrets anyway.
I also think the ammo idea is a good compromise, something to be bandied about if going all the way back to 1.0 is too much, but would much rather see the sentries become independent again.
Ok to recap in one corner we have people wanting the turrets not shut down when the TF is destroyed and in the other corner we have some that want the turrets dependent on the TF
So let see if we can make a compromise What if hypothetically you set up turret s around you TF and some of the turrets got up graded (individually) then for whatever reason the TF got destroyed all the turrets shut down except the upgrade turrets. But sieges are still dependent on TF Which could open up more strategy
So would turret farmers can produce masses of cheap turrets but have a weakness (TF if you didn’t know <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) While on the other hand you can have good quality non-TF dependent turrets so strategy is paramount
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So let see if we can make a compromise What if hypothetically you set up turret s around you TF and some of the turrets got up graded (individually) then for whatever reason the TF got destroyed all the turrets shut down except the upgrade turrets. But sieges are still dependent on TF Which could open up more strategy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on whats required to upgrade them I guess, something more than a welder I'd hope.
On a side note, if you make the turrets non-dependant on the TF, this is what, I personally, would do as a commander (as long as the res was coming in, and the marines were following other orders too mind you). Build a TF, put a bunch of sentries up, recycle TF, build another TF just outside the range of the last, build more senties...recycle, build another TF, I think you see the point here. You could easily have dozens of senties everywhere on the map, and they'd be cheaper than now cause you get some res back from the TF. And why not? Those sentries will work just fine without a watchful eye, might as well just do what I'm naming a "turret crawl" (Copyright, ME) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Being dependant on the TF is the only balancing factor of the sentries IMO. Wait wait, I hear you...yes, you think the aliens can just litter the map with OCs? Well, you're right, they can, but no intelligent gorge will do that. Sentries are as dependant on the TF as OC's are to 2+ D chambers. Besides the fact aliens have the build limit. Without a build limit on the marines, turrets everywhere, weeeeeeeeeeeee.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
/me still laughs at everyone who complains about their turret farm being too expensive and too weak.
I never, ever see turrets, much less turret FARMS in competitive play anymore. No one even THINKS about them. As far as clan matches and scrims are concerned the turrets might as well be coded out of the game for all they care (except for ns_Hera but that's another story). It's always keep enough RTs up for a time then JP/HMG. Nothing else works anymore since 2 hive lockdowns are now officially -impossible- to pull off against any half-decent kharaa team. Too expensive, too many places where things can fall apart with a single mistake and lots of $$$ down the drain.
Face it people, the current NS environment is one in which good commanders rarely ever bother defending RT and other strategic areas with automated defenses anymore. It's all about the marines doing the jobs themselves. Only reason TF gets built is for the "occasional" seige.
If anyone wishes to see turrets as an option for the marines, the turrets will have to be massively upgraded to justify the extreme cost of setting up place with turrets for defense. For example maybe turrets can shoot thru friendly structures and can track a bit faster. As of now the only viable strategy IS rush, rush rush, in some form or another. Sigh...
Making the turrets fire more accurately would be one way.......
I mean i find it EXTREMELY ridiculous how 2 skulks can outstrafe 4 turrets firing at them(NOT blocked by LOS)enough to kill all 4 1000 HP turrets with level 3 weapons upgrade......
I also find the TF hitbox bug extremely annoying.I once watched a skulk on commander's screen sit at TF with 3 turrets firing at it(NOT blocked by LOS) and it took the turrets 6 salvos to kill him cause of the TF hitbox blocking the skulk hitbox.....
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
The hitbox issue may not be fixable; it's the discrepancy between the hitbox of the building and the hull. Buildings, by necessity, use the "crouched marine" hull, but some of them are frequently larger than that hull, visually. When the game detects collision, however, it uses the hulls and not the hitboxes. /:
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Is the three hull limit an absolute? It seems like something that should be easily gotten around. Halflife had dozens of different shapes and sizes for the enemies. I'd have a hard time believing that they did all of that collision detection with 3 hulls.
Don't mean to pry meatshield... but did you just laugh at the people complaining about the weakness of turret fields, and then complain about the weakness of turret fields?
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Feb 12 2003, 12:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Feb 12 2003, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me still laughs at everyone who complains about their turret farm being too expensive and too weak.
I never, ever see turrets, much less turret FARMS in competitive play anymore. No one even THINKS about them. As far as clan matches and scrims are concerned the turrets might as well be coded out of the game for all they care (except for ns_Hera but that's another story). It's always keep enough RTs up for a time then JP/HMG. Nothing else works anymore since 2 hive lockdowns are now officially -impossible- to pull off against any half-decent kharaa team. Too expensive, too many places where things can fall apart with a single mistake and lots of $$$ down the drain.
Face it people, the current NS environment is one in which good commanders rarely ever bother defending RT and other strategic areas with automated defenses anymore. It's all about the marines doing the jobs themselves. Only reason TF gets built is for the "occasional" seige.
If anyone wishes to see turrets as an option for the marines, the turrets will have to be massively upgraded to justify the extreme cost of setting up place with turrets for defense. For example maybe turrets can shoot thru friendly structures and can track a bit faster. As of now the only viable strategy IS rush, rush rush, in some form or another. Sigh... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, turrets pretty much don't exist in clan games. They need a major overhaul.
I'm wondering what people would think about the TF taking more of an Arms Lab/Obs role. You can't build turrets without it, but proximity to the TF has no bearing on the placement of turrets. Optionaly, there may be research options in the TF itself for more power/armor in the turrets you put down.
I would quickly remind you all about how turrets were used in 1.0... No need for marine strategy, just crawl your turret clouds...
Just a little tiny tiny bit of TLC from a marine and turrets farms get many times more useful... Just someone around with a welder and a gun, making sure they're all healthy and chasing off an alien who found a good spot to attack from.
I'd like to remind you that 1.0 had a bug that gave the marines way more resources than they should have been getting. Such a crawl would not be a feasable strategy today.
Frankly, I don't care what they do, so as long as a HMG/JP rush doesn't work.
<!--QuoteBegin--civman2+Feb 12 2003, 03:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (civman2 @ Feb 12 2003, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to remind you that 1.0 had a bug that gave the marines way more resources than they should have been getting. Such a crawl would not be a feasable strategy today.
Frankly, I don't care what they do, so as long as a HMG/JP rush doesn't work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean to say the marine resource model was even MORE broken i 1.0? ye gods, I must not have played rines enough back then.
<!--QuoteBegin--Inexorable+Feb 12 2003, 09:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Inexorable @ Feb 12 2003, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm wondering what people would think about the TF taking more of an Arms Lab/Obs role. You can't build turrets without it, but proximity to the TF has no bearing on the placement of turrets. Optionaly, there may be research options in the TF itself for more power/armor in the turrets you put down. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like it. Would require balancing of the cost, durability and damage, but in principle, it is a good idea.
I think it would require turrets to have a similar limit as alien chambers and possibly something for aliens to counter massed turrets.
seing how as automated bases are somthing that Flayra didn't like the idea of, you are not suposed to set up an TF and turrets in a hive and then forget about it, you have to freaken watch em or else you will loose (that was the point) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> excellent point, if all you needed to do as a marine was to plant a Tf and a few turrets and then move on this game would get old very fast.
I thought for a bit about Inexorable's suggestion of TF being more of a tech structure and turrets being independent from it and I like it more and more.
Price of the the turret factory could be built in the price of turrets. Siege should still require a nearby turret factory to operate, otherwise building it would be simply too fast. Other means of slowing the sieging process down could be thought up, since it is a bit counterintuitive that you need a tech building near the siege.
Alien counter to turrets could be Gorge's spit with a modification. It could have the added effect of shutting down turrets for ~3 seconds.
Turrets are fine. If I have locked down both hives, I would often build 2 more TFs at both locations. I'm a jerk like that y'know. Don't give aliens at least a glimmer of hope. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, did anyone mention mines? So yeah: marine, mines, turrets = virtually unstoppable. Shoot... mines alone can do the job if you just have one good marine there.
One of these days I'd love to play the last RC build with some of the PTs or other good, team players. I bet it would be the best game of NS ever.
That said, I think turrets should not be dependent upon the TF to stay up. However, I think simply removing this dependency would be a little too much; perhaps also knock their hitpoints down by a few hundred. Yes. That would be interesting.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Inexorable, yes I'm laughing (not in a mean way, mind you, but yes having a good laugh) and I am slo noting the weakness of turrets. I'm not really complaining here because while I think it would better and make the game more interesting if turrets were viable, I'm perfectly willing to work around it and just not use turrets at all as of right now. Guess what I'm REALLY complaining about is that in clan games the only thing that ever works in JP/HMG rushes. Sigh...there still IS no mid game. Maybe if they took away acid rocket or made it do no splash damage. Then there would be a lot more mid game. Make JP more expensive too maybe. I dunno, I hope Flayra can fix this in 1.1.
I don't get it how you people can say that the marines' turret is powerfull or too powerfull as it is now. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Obviously you haven't learned the tricks to take a TF+4 turrets down without dying..... And don't tell me well if you build 999999 turrets it will be invulnarable, sure it will but who the hell will do something like that? That's waste of res and gives the kharaa time. Also ever thought about how it's harder for 1 single marine to take a an OC then it is for a skulk to take out a TF+4turrets? The harder part is usually because of the skulks eating marines but anyway... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
That seem to be what some people want.
They are fine as they are, any enhancements will make them overpowered and skulk-proof. Only the marines who want to farm and forget want them better.
The problem with 1.0 was not the turrets themselves, but a skewed resource system that allowed marines to produce ridiculous numbers of them. I loathe the fact that a ~100-RP turret defense can be rendered useless by a single skulk taking out a single turret.
That said, marines are already overpowered; I dunno. We'll see.
That goes into my sig <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Now I just need Flay saying that <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is an excellent idea. I think it strikes the the perfect balance between reliance on and independence from the turret factory. To compensate for this, increase the time that it takes to build a turret factory. Maybe increase its cost a little.
Tell that to any of the Old Fogies. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think a lot of the posters here (myself, coil and Silverfox especially) are Kharaa players who see a big bunch of turrets and think "Mmmm... snacktime"
Just to repeat, I don't want farming. Before this change, my favorite use of the TF was to plop it down somewhere, set up 2-4 turrets (2/node,3/double,4/hive) and then recycle the TF. It cuts down on the cover that Skulks get while biting the turrets, and gets me back 12-15 RP. Sure, if I want to build more turrets I need to re-build the TF, but unless it's a hive, or major battle point, I couldn't be bothered to re-build the turrets anyway.
I also think the ammo idea is a good compromise, something to be bandied about if going all the way back to 1.0 is too much, but would much rather see the sentries become independent again.
So let see if we can make a compromise
What if hypothetically you set up turret s around you TF and some of the turrets got up graded (individually) then for whatever reason the TF got destroyed all the turrets shut down except the upgrade turrets.
But sieges are still dependent on TF
Which could open up more strategy
So would turret farmers can produce masses of cheap turrets but have a weakness (TF if you didn’t know <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
While on the other hand you can have good quality non-TF dependent turrets so strategy is paramount
Now would this improve the game play?
What if hypothetically you set up turret s around you TF and some of the turrets got up graded (individually) then for whatever reason the TF got destroyed all the turrets shut down except the upgrade turrets.
But sieges are still dependent on TF
Which could open up more strategy<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on whats required to upgrade them I guess, something more than a welder I'd hope.
On a side note, if you make the turrets non-dependant on the TF, this is what, I personally, would do as a commander (as long as the res was coming in, and the marines were following other orders too mind you). Build a TF, put a bunch of sentries up, recycle TF, build another TF just outside the range of the last, build more senties...recycle, build another TF, I think you see the point here. You could easily have dozens of senties everywhere on the map, and they'd be cheaper than now cause you get some res back from the TF. And why not? Those sentries will work just fine without a watchful eye, might as well just do what I'm naming a "turret crawl" (Copyright, ME) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Being dependant on the TF is the only balancing factor of the sentries IMO. Wait wait, I hear you...yes, you think the aliens can just litter the map with OCs? Well, you're right, they can, but no intelligent gorge will do that. Sentries are as dependant on the TF as OC's are to 2+ D chambers. Besides the fact aliens have the build limit. Without a build limit on the marines, turrets everywhere, weeeeeeeeeeeee.
I never, ever see turrets, much less turret FARMS in competitive play anymore. No one even THINKS about them. As far as clan matches and scrims are concerned the turrets might as well be coded out of the game for all they care (except for ns_Hera but that's another story). It's always keep enough RTs up for a time then JP/HMG. Nothing else works anymore since 2 hive lockdowns are now officially -impossible- to pull off against any half-decent kharaa team. Too expensive, too many places where things can fall apart with a single mistake and lots of $$$ down the drain.
Face it people, the current NS environment is one in which good commanders rarely ever bother defending RT and other strategic areas with automated defenses anymore. It's all about the marines doing the jobs themselves. Only reason TF gets built is for the "occasional" seige.
If anyone wishes to see turrets as an option for the marines, the turrets will have to be massively upgraded to justify the extreme cost of setting up place with turrets for defense. For example maybe turrets can shoot thru friendly structures and can track a bit faster. As of now the only viable strategy IS rush, rush rush, in some form or another. Sigh...
I mean i find it EXTREMELY ridiculous how 2 skulks can outstrafe 4 turrets firing at them(NOT blocked by LOS)enough to kill all 4 1000 HP turrets with level 3 weapons upgrade......
I also find the TF hitbox bug extremely annoying.I once watched a skulk on commander's screen sit at TF with 3 turrets firing at it(NOT blocked by LOS) and it took the turrets 6 salvos to kill him cause of the TF hitbox blocking the skulk hitbox.....
I never, ever see turrets, much less turret FARMS in competitive play anymore. No one even THINKS about them. As far as clan matches and scrims are concerned the turrets might as well be coded out of the game for all they care (except for ns_Hera but that's another story). It's always keep enough RTs up for a time then JP/HMG. Nothing else works anymore since 2 hive lockdowns are now officially -impossible- to pull off against any half-decent kharaa team. Too expensive, too many places where things can fall apart with a single mistake and lots of $$$ down the drain.
Face it people, the current NS environment is one in which good commanders rarely ever bother defending RT and other strategic areas with automated defenses anymore. It's all about the marines doing the jobs themselves. Only reason TF gets built is for the "occasional" seige.
If anyone wishes to see turrets as an option for the marines, the turrets will have to be massively upgraded to justify the extreme cost of setting up place with turrets for defense. For example maybe turrets can shoot thru friendly structures and can track a bit faster. As of now the only viable strategy IS rush, rush rush, in some form or another. Sigh... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, turrets pretty much don't exist in clan games. They need a major overhaul.
Just a little tiny tiny bit of TLC from a marine and turrets farms get many times more useful... Just someone around with a welder and a gun, making sure they're all healthy and chasing off an alien who found a good spot to attack from.
Frankly, I don't care what they do, so as long as a HMG/JP rush doesn't work.
Frankly, I don't care what they do, so as long as a HMG/JP rush doesn't work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean to say the marine resource model was even MORE broken i 1.0? ye gods, I must not have played rines enough back then.
I like it. Would require balancing of the cost, durability and damage, but in principle, it is a good idea.
I think it would require turrets to have a similar limit as alien chambers and possibly something for aliens to counter massed turrets.
seing how as automated bases are somthing that Flayra didn't like the idea of, you are not suposed to set up an TF and turrets in a hive and then forget about it, you have to freaken watch em or else you will loose (that was the point) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
excellent point, if all you needed to do as a marine was to plant a Tf and a few turrets and then move on this game would get old very fast.
Price of the the turret factory could be built in the price of turrets. Siege should still require a nearby turret factory to operate, otherwise building it would be simply too fast. Other means of slowing the sieging process down could be thought up, since it is a bit counterintuitive that you need a tech building near the siege.
Alien counter to turrets could be Gorge's spit with a modification. It could have the added effect of shutting down turrets for ~3 seconds.
Anyway, did anyone mention mines? So yeah: marine, mines, turrets = virtually unstoppable. Shoot... mines alone can do the job if you just have one good marine there.
It would be insanely boring as well if you could EASILY(key word here) take out a 58 RP fade with a 0 RP marine.
Second isnt possible,1st is.
Turrets simply do not exist in clan matches.......why?because the alien team knows all the tricks for slaughtering a turret farm.Its too simple.
Turret crawl in 1.04?IMPOSSIBLE.For one,it would take WAYYYYYYYY too long and WAYYYYYY too much res.
I kinda like the upgrade turrets idea in the TF.Although i think no radius limit + the turret upgrades could be potentially unbalancing.
That said, I think turrets should not be dependent upon the TF to stay up. However, I think simply removing this dependency would be a little too much; perhaps also knock their hitpoints down by a few hundred. Yes. That would be interesting.
Obviously you haven't learned the tricks to take a TF+4 turrets down without dying..... And don't tell me well if you build 999999 turrets it will be invulnarable, sure it will but who the hell will do something like that? That's waste of res and gives the kharaa time. Also ever thought about how it's harder for 1 single marine to take a an OC then it is for a skulk to take out a TF+4turrets? The harder part is usually because of the skulks eating marines but anyway... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->