Eh I'm really starting to like movement first been trying it out...the only problem i have is when i gorge and drop a movement people just complain. Obviously people are so used to having defense first they are not used to using the other upgrades. As a matter of fact i was just in a game where i dropped movement first and instead of fighting 5 out of 8 aliens were sitting in the hive complaining about how it would be impossible to kill a marine without carapace(of course it is impossible if you dont even try)....marines grabbed 2 hives while the team was sitting there complaining. Well one skulk bless his soul decided to just play and took out one of the hives the marines held...all by himself. So i run in drop the hive start dropping oc's around the hive and no sooner then i drop the seconds oc, marines rush into main hive and kill all the people sitting there complaining...well hive died. Not because movement first is bad but because they are so caught on defense first they didnt bother trying. Well anyway second hive comes up(after defending the hive as a gorge) and i drop a bunch of defense under the hive to help against the oncoming assault. The team complains for some odd reason about me putting d chambers under the hive(unnamed hive in nancy) so after some more complaining and refusing to fight heavies come into the hive room and kill me as gorge(not before i get a heavy kill as gorge). I respawn as skulk get celerity and cara and then commence to just totally owning the 4 heavies in our hive room due to the speed and healing from hive(and the dc spam), but of course half the team decides its hopeless(after i kill one heavy and im still full health) and quits. End of round....
PS- Dont run down a corridor in a straight line...even with carapace you would be dead.
I said defense first or second, as sensory being useful is for another thread.
Movement just does not cut it in marine killing power. Celerity does not make the skulk visibly faster to marines, and silence is much more easily countered by good playing than any other upgrade. (Look backwards while moving as a group, and sensory is pretty much negated.)
If you cannot kill marines, you will not be able to kill turrets. I still doubt the "not getting hit at all" thing (At least with a correctly placed tf... I mean in a corner, with all turrets covering all sides, where there is no way you will not be getting hit provided the turrets are properly spaced out.), but that is not the point. Killing turrets iseasywith any upgrade, and if you have defense, you can just walk two feet back to a DC and heal up.
I was about to write out a reply showing you guys why you are wrong. Suddenly the motivation dissapeared, and all that is left is this utterly pointless post. My point? I'm not even sure I had one but if I did I'm sure I forgot by now. To be honest, I'm not sure why I'm even still typing.
Your mission: Find the parellel between my post and the other ones in this thread.
One more thing, Wildcard, I don't doubt your extreme skills and eliteness, but either you are lying or the marines were horrendous players. No offense, but thats like saying I - as in me by myself, bombed Iraq and owned Saddam overnight.
Oh cmon people.....Def. THEN Mov. THEN....if u get around to it......Sen. SIMPLE AS THAT! Ive used that since the start of NS....and its worked fine. Ive won over 75% of matches like that....and when some jackass decides to "change things up" at the start....its nearly impossible for us to come out with a victory (except for one time...when I turned into like SUPER GORGE GOD...and beat marines even though some n00b built a SENSORY CHAMBER for our 1st hive.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ) But seriously...thats like THE way to go....cuz gettin a 2nd hive AINT that hard.....
Oh yeah Crisqo......ur a fool. NEVER use that crap when IM on the server...or imma reach into my monitor and beat the crap outta u <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
From what ive seen a more convinsing argument for the d/m/s strat is the use of the chambers them selves. With the first hive you need defence just so u can build credable forward bases, otherwise the off chambers get killed to easy and anyone who gets in a fight and wins but comes out with say 1/2 health has to either find a gorge or go back to the hive on larger maps this can be a real hinderence.
Movement possable could cover this if built close enough to key locations to retreat to and then go back to hive to regen, but movement realy shines when u have 2 hives both alowing quick def, and faster deploment usually saving 1-2 mins of traveling time (distance between hives).
As for the sensory the ablity to see what it can see through hive sight isnt to great, and so has less usfullness. Hence why it shouldnt be used until last.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
SkitZoFrenic, *Sigh*
At least CanadianMonkey (for all I've disagreed with him in other threads) at least trys to rate each, and give valid reasons.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ive won over 75% of matches like that....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well quick. We'd better do that forever. I mean, who'd want variety in a game? That's just ridiculous. Flayra, quick, just have LA's & Fades in the game. There's no need for any other species, that's all we want.
Incidentally, for those who haven't seen it before, I advocate Def->Sens->Mov or Sens->Def->Mov, I still agree with Monkey that Def should really be in the first two. But I believe that's because overall, the Def abilities are amazing compared to the other two.
God I miss the first week of NS, the first week it was released, the first week I ever played NS.
My first game - was gorge, started with SENSORY, won. My second game - entire team started with SENSORY, so I sat in the middle of the room, cloaked (lvl3) and chomped any marines getting near my precious hive. as the game continued, I kept evolving through all alien classes and ended up as a big, cloaked, regenerating, adrenaline-pumped Onos, killing marines in a line, we won My third game - SENSORY first, we won My fourth game - Def first, we lost.
I just love beeing cloaked, since it gives yout he upper hand in the early game IMHO(dont flame, my opinion) and I couldn't care less for def, since I only use regeneration from it, and adrenaline as second upgrade so I can lerk.
Its a shame that people are so thick-headed they dont want to try out "new" things, but I prefer a cloaked skulk able to avoid turrets by just standing still and occasionally taking a bite, then recloaking, rather than a regenerating skulk making awfull noises, or a skulk with carapace, jsut taking three shots extra, and still having to run back to hvie to replenish health.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nah, not adren.
Crippled without Cara, but not adren. Silence Lerk is actually really NASTY too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah....but using silence does hurt the lerk as a support class. It increases it's marine killing skills, but reduces the likelihood of you being able to, for example, fly in and umbra that tfac, with support from a couple of fades.
Without cara, I wouldn't even think about going lerk. It's a waste of res.
I don't usually weigh in on these sorts of topics, but I have to agree that using Sensory or Movement first is a perfectly viable tactic, even if you're a 'win-at-all-cost-who-cares-if-we-have-fun' type. I'm as competitive as the next guy, but can't some of you wait to grow up and work in the stockmarket before bringing that sort of attitude to NS? Oh well, on topic, every truly skilled skulk-lover will tell you that having cloak or silence is far more effective in most situations then carapace. The reason is that with carapace if the Marines use good teamwork and concentrate their fire you'll have a hard time in ambushes or areas with long fields of fire. Silence and Cloack are the great equalizers, as they allow you to get the all-important first kill in on a group practically as a freebie. At that point, the Marines are shooting all around in confusion and disarray, often just expending ammo into their buddies or the ground as you dance around getting in some good nibbles. As skulk I will usually get far more action and kills in with silence than any other ability to be honest, as you can kill the rearguard men in a Marine boarding party with ease and get away before his buddies can react. Then repeat. It's even more deadly with fades. And a cloaked gorge is a gorge you don't have to worry about being killed.
Unfortunately, some people have gotten into a rut with their tactics. Switch things up sometimes folks, that's why you have all these options as aliens.
the only problem i see now is that some of the upgrades just don't do it for the lerk. i hope some of the upgrades are changed so that at least one of the three upgrades benefit all aliens even if the lerk is stuck with only 1 upgrade to choose from at hive-1.
Now the lerk is mostly down to just: carapace, adrenaline, any sensory. If anything else, the lerk is just fodder. Now, if silence silenced the lerk spikes or cloak made the spike tracers disappear that would allow for some extra sneakiness. If regeneration was better then the lerks can actually lurk on overhangs and catwalks over marine bases.
Uhh, without Defense chamber at all, you can't heal away from the hive. And your gorge can't heal himself. You can't even redeem your fades, a mad rush by lmg will kill the poor **** unless there are gorges or hive nearby.
I think one thing that gets overlooked alot is the scent of fear upgrade w/ an adrenalized fade in the mid-match. If you're in a good round, by the time the 2nd hive is going up, you should be facing a jp/hmg rush. I generally play with some of the top clans out there, and it's something I've come to expect as a gorge or a skulk. Now, if the second hive makes it up and sensory is dropped, I'm insanely pleased. Scent of fear + adrenaline is great for jp hunting as a fade. Especially on ns_nancy and other maps with lots of places near the ceiling to hide, I go out on solo missions hunting down solo jetpackers. If I hear a noise, I launch an acidrocket in the general vicinity, and guess what, I get the little orange halo. So I sit still, and he thinks he's gotten away w/ something. Meanwhile, I have full energy back and four to five acid rockets in rapid succession follow...dead marine. I'm not saying movement first, sensory second is ALWAYS the way to go, but it's always shaken an enemy up when it works. Cloaking may be nice, but I'm too active for it.
Movement first is a nice, effective strat against a group that consistently hive rushes before the second hive is up. You're across the map dropping a res node? Drop a move chamber next to it for speedy return to the hive to heal it. Same goes for when the second hive is int he building process. They're rushing the main hive? drop a move or three at the second hive and get back fast to help your skulks. Also, as a gorge, I've found celerity insanely useful. A lone marine ends up finding me out of position and I actually stand a chance of getting away. Usually in a def -> move -> sens game, I'll get redemption and celerity as the gorge and be able to redeem 6-8 times before dying if I die at all.
The one thing that's proven to work in <b>every</b> successful round I've played is that thinking outside the box and showing your enemy what he wants to see will win the game. You want to capture a particular hive? attack the base he has at the other hive. Keep pushing as skulks until he thinks you're committed. Meantime, the gorge is off crappin' out a sack and the second hive is up before you know it. I played a small (2 v 2) game on bast. We started in engine, and I thought "Great, we're done for" Well, my teammate went gorge and I proceeded to hit the marine start from both vents, the elevator and the revolving door, never going the same way twice in a row. Well, they kept building and my gorge went off to feedwater to get the hive up. Meanwhile, the marines got jps/hmgs and one stayed in the comm chair to spam health. The other marine went to refinery and then feedwater, while I attacked his base. I killed both IPs, then his teammate as he left the comm chair, and his teammate got discouraged and left. Well, the jp/hmg marine killed feedwater then got bagged by an ochamber. He was like "rofl I won!!" and I told him our original hive had been engine and he'd lost cuz i ate his IP. He didn't believe me. So then I showed him the demo.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Feb 13 2003, 03:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Feb 13 2003, 03:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...Or they change their playstyle to fit so that you run away at around 100 health 20 armor to go heal THEN go back into the fray. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's get real.
Everyone shouldn't rely exclusively on all the heals from hives and gorges that CAN'T heal oneselves.
Are you sure you want all your aliens to run back to the hives. Fade and Gorge will NOT have access to regen, redemption, DEF towers. Lerk WILL have to fly back to his little hive or nearest gorge every time he's hit by a bullet.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Feb 13 2003, 07:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Feb 13 2003, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thats what blink is for, or strategically placed movement chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And in the time that it takes to go there and come back, the Marines may have gained a foot hold back.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Feb 13 2003, 07:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Feb 13 2003, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thats what blink is for, or strategically placed movement chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But then you get to go all the way back from the hive to the fight.
<!--QuoteBegin--Rat+Feb 13 2003, 03:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rat @ Feb 13 2003, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think one thing that gets overlooked alot is the scent of fear upgrade w/ an adrenalized fade in the mid-match. If you're in a good round, by the time the 2nd hive is going up, you should be facing a jp/hmg rush. I generally play with some of the top clans out there, and it's something I've come to expect as a gorge or a skulk. Now, if the second hive makes it up and sensory is dropped, I'm insanely pleased. Scent of fear + adrenaline is great for jp hunting as a fade. Especially on ns_nancy and other maps with lots of places near the ceiling to hide, I go out on solo missions hunting down solo jetpackers. If I hear a noise, I launch an acidrocket in the general vicinity, and guess what, I get the little orange halo. So I sit still, and he thinks he's gotten away w/ something. Meanwhile, I have full energy back and four to five acid rockets in rapid succession follow...dead marine. I'm not saying movement first, sensory second is ALWAYS the way to go, but it's always shaken an enemy up when it works. Cloaking may be nice, but I'm too active for it.
Movement first is a nice, effective strat against a group that consistently hive rushes before the second hive is up. You're across the map dropping a res node? Drop a move chamber next to it for speedy return to the hive to heal it. Same goes for when the second hive is int he building process. They're rushing the main hive? drop a move or three at the second hive and get back fast to help your skulks. Also, as a gorge, I've found celerity insanely useful. A lone marine ends up finding me out of position and I actually stand a chance of getting away. Usually in a def -> move -> sens game, I'll get redemption and celerity as the gorge and be able to redeem 6-8 times before dying if I die at all.
The one thing that's proven to work in <b>every</b> successful round I've played is that thinking outside the box and showing your enemy what he wants to see will win the game. You want to capture a particular hive? attack the base he has at the other hive. Keep pushing as skulks until he thinks you're committed. Meantime, the gorge is off crappin' out a sack and the second hive is up before you know it. I played a small (2 v 2) game on bast. We started in engine, and I thought "Great, we're done for" Well, my teammate went gorge and I proceeded to hit the marine start from both vents, the elevator and the revolving door, never going the same way twice in a row. Well, they kept building and my gorge went off to feedwater to get the hive up. Meanwhile, the marines got jps/hmgs and one stayed in the comm chair to spam health. The other marine went to refinery and then feedwater, while I attacked his base. I killed both IPs, then his teammate as he left the comm chair, and his teammate got discouraged and left. Well, the jp/hmg marine killed feedwater then got bagged by an ochamber. He was like "rofl I won!!" and I told him our original hive had been engine and he'd lost cuz i ate his IP. He didn't believe me. So then I showed him the demo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Scent of Fear is my fav sens upgrade, and I really like the idea your throwing out there. Might be (though juyst slightly) quicker because of the 6 sources saved when building sensory.... And hell, you only need three sensory, usually defenses are placed all around...
<span style='font-family:Times'>Personally, I believe the orginal topic of this thread to be quite of some use. I mean, if you can hear an Onos that is slowly walking into your base cloaked; you know they're not experienced enough. I mean they could be, and with any luck apathy would reside with the marines there, but Movement and Sensory are working combinations.
A lot of people said it depends upon the conditions your hive is in. Hive situation i.e. could vary; if the marines are working to push your efforts back, remember you do have resources and your team is responsible too defend them. This is one thing I hate about some players; they refuse to respond to "OUR hive is under attack" or "Resource tower is under attack" voice warnings.
In order for there to be an effective offense, they're must be an effective defense. Defenses in my opinion should be mobile, but also static to keep the enemy wondering. Outsmart your enemy and you can use freebies like these. I personally find getting a lerk into the enemy base, using cloak and silence to be of better effect. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> </span>
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--a|A+Feb 14 2003, 03:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a|A @ Feb 14 2003, 03:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just finished a game - we got sensories first, movement second, and whipped the marines backsides. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Odds are, you would have won no matter what chamber order you choose. Winning with sensory first is certainly doable, just harder and riskier than defense first.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Feb 14 2003, 03:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Feb 14 2003, 03:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me braces for the usual 'Your marines must be teh SUCK!' standard response. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Standard, but true all the same.
CanadianMonkey, just invite Crisqo/Shockwave to the server you play on where the elite marines are. Let them sensory/movement first and see how things go. It seems like that's the only way to put this dispute to rest.
Or visit the server he plays on and check out the competition there. You can't really dismiss one side or the other without seeing the competition first (This goes for both sides <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). Seeing is believing... especially when arguing about it over, what 5 threads? hasn't gotten either side anywhere.
Just to cast my lot... I'm pro-defense first <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines I play against have pretty sick aim. Everytime we've tried to do something else, we usually get smacked around for it unless the pre-upgrade wars are heavily in skulks favor.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Feb 14 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Feb 14 2003, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sensory and movement first can win with non inept marines, too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When I say decent marines players, I mean that they take one of the two extremely easy counters to both chambers, or just quick-tech JPs+HMGs, and win. Obs+scan+hive occupation>sensory. MT>movement.
<!--QuoteBegin--Canadianmonk3y+Feb 14 2003, 06:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canadianmonk3y @ Feb 14 2003, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Feb 14 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Feb 14 2003, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sensory and movement first can win with non inept marines, too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When I say decent marines players, I mean that they take one of the two extremely easy counters to both chambers, or just quick-tech JPs+HMGs, and win. Obs+scan+hive occupation>sensory. MT>movement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You wouldn't know that before it's too late.
Comments
PS- Dont run down a corridor in a straight line...even with carapace you would be dead.
I said defense first or second, as sensory being useful is for another thread.
Movement just does not cut it in marine killing power. Celerity does not make the skulk visibly faster to marines, and silence is much more easily countered by good playing than any other upgrade. (Look backwards while moving as a group, and sensory is pretty much negated.)
If you cannot kill marines, you will not be able to kill turrets. I still doubt the "not getting hit at all" thing (At least with a correctly placed tf... I mean in a corner, with all turrets covering all sides, where there is no way you will not be getting hit provided the turrets are properly spaced out.), but that is not the point. Killing turrets iseasywith any upgrade, and if you have defense, you can just walk two
feet back to a DC and heal up.
Your mission: Find the parellel between my post and the other ones in this thread.
eve.doobie
#teameve
eve.doobie
#teameve
Oh yeah Crisqo......ur a fool. NEVER use that crap when IM on the server...or imma reach into my monitor and beat the crap outta u <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Movement possable could cover this if built close enough to key locations to retreat to and then go back to hive to regen, but movement realy shines when u have 2 hives both alowing quick def, and faster deploment usually saving 1-2 mins of traveling time (distance between hives).
As for the sensory the ablity to see what it can see through hive sight isnt to great, and so has less usfullness. Hence why it shouldnt be used until last.
At least CanadianMonkey (for all I've disagreed with him in other threads) at least trys to rate each, and give valid reasons.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ive won over 75% of matches like that....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well quick. We'd better do that forever. I mean, who'd want variety in a game? That's just ridiculous. Flayra, quick, just have LA's & Fades in the game. There's no need for any other species, that's all we want.
Incidentally, for those who haven't seen it before, I advocate Def->Sens->Mov or Sens->Def->Mov, I still agree with Monkey that Def should really be in the first two. But I believe that's because overall, the Def abilities are amazing compared to the other two.
My first game - was gorge, started with SENSORY, won.
My second game - entire team started with SENSORY, so I sat in the middle of the room, cloaked (lvl3) and chomped any marines getting near my precious hive. as the game continued, I kept evolving through all alien classes and ended up as a big, cloaked, regenerating, adrenaline-pumped Onos, killing marines in a line, we won
My third game - SENSORY first, we won
My fourth game - Def first, we lost.
I just love beeing cloaked, since it gives yout he upper hand in the early game IMHO(dont flame, my opinion) and I couldn't care less for def, since I only use regeneration from it, and adrenaline as second upgrade so I can lerk.
Its a shame that people are so thick-headed they dont want to try out "new" things, but I prefer a cloaked skulk able to avoid turrets by just standing still and occasionally taking a bite, then recloaking, rather than a regenerating skulk making awfull noises, or a skulk with carapace, jsut taking three shots extra, and still having to run back to hvie to replenish health.
My 2 cents...
Crippled without Cara, but not adren. Silence Lerk is actually really NASTY too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah....but using silence does hurt the lerk as a support class. It increases it's marine killing skills, but reduces the likelihood of you being able to, for example, fly in and umbra that tfac, with support from a couple of fades.
Without cara, I wouldn't even think about going lerk. It's a waste of res.
Unfortunately, some people have gotten into a rut with their tactics. Switch things up sometimes folks, that's why you have all these options as aliens.
Now the lerk is mostly down to just: carapace, adrenaline, any sensory. If anything else, the lerk is just fodder. Now, if silence silenced the lerk spikes or cloak made the spike tracers disappear that would allow for some extra sneakiness. If regeneration was better then the lerks can actually lurk on overhangs and catwalks over marine bases.
You can't even redeem your fades, a mad rush by lmg will kill the poor **** unless there are gorges or hive nearby.
Movement first is a nice, effective strat against a group that consistently hive rushes before the second hive is up. You're across the map dropping a res node? Drop a move chamber next to it for speedy return to the hive to heal it. Same goes for when the second hive is int he building process. They're rushing the main hive? drop a move or three at the second hive and get back fast to help your skulks. Also, as a gorge, I've found celerity insanely useful. A lone marine ends up finding me out of position and I actually stand a chance of getting away. Usually in a def -> move -> sens game, I'll get redemption and celerity as the gorge and be able to redeem 6-8 times before dying if I die at all.
The one thing that's proven to work in <b>every</b> successful round I've played is that thinking outside the box and showing your enemy what he wants to see will win the game. You want to capture a particular hive? attack the base he has at the other hive. Keep pushing as skulks until he thinks you're committed. Meantime, the gorge is off crappin' out a sack and the second hive is up before you know it. I played a small (2 v 2) game on bast. We started in engine, and I thought "Great, we're done for" Well, my teammate went gorge and I proceeded to hit the marine start from both vents, the elevator and the revolving door, never going the same way twice in a row. Well, they kept building and my gorge went off to feedwater to get the hive up. Meanwhile, the marines got jps/hmgs and one stayed in the comm chair to spam health. The other marine went to refinery and then feedwater, while I attacked his base. I killed both IPs, then his teammate as he left the comm chair, and his teammate got discouraged and left. Well, the jp/hmg marine killed feedwater then got bagged by an ochamber. He was like "rofl I won!!" and I told him our original hive had been engine and he'd lost cuz i ate his IP. He didn't believe me. So then I showed him the demo.
Let's get real.
Everyone shouldn't rely exclusively on all the heals from hives and gorges that CAN'T heal oneselves.
Are you sure you want all your aliens to run back to the hives.
Fade and Gorge will NOT have access to regen, redemption, DEF towers.
Lerk WILL have to fly back to his little hive or nearest gorge every time he's hit by a bullet.
And in the time that it takes to go there and come back, the Marines may have gained a foot hold back.
But then you get to go all the way back from the hive to the fight.
Movement first is a nice, effective strat against a group that consistently hive rushes before the second hive is up. You're across the map dropping a res node? Drop a move chamber next to it for speedy return to the hive to heal it. Same goes for when the second hive is int he building process. They're rushing the main hive? drop a move or three at the second hive and get back fast to help your skulks. Also, as a gorge, I've found celerity insanely useful. A lone marine ends up finding me out of position and I actually stand a chance of getting away. Usually in a def -> move -> sens game, I'll get redemption and celerity as the gorge and be able to redeem 6-8 times before dying if I die at all.
The one thing that's proven to work in <b>every</b> successful round I've played is that thinking outside the box and showing your enemy what he wants to see will win the game. You want to capture a particular hive? attack the base he has at the other hive. Keep pushing as skulks until he thinks you're committed. Meantime, the gorge is off crappin' out a sack and the second hive is up before you know it. I played a small (2 v 2) game on bast. We started in engine, and I thought "Great, we're done for" Well, my teammate went gorge and I proceeded to hit the marine start from both vents, the elevator and the revolving door, never going the same way twice in a row. Well, they kept building and my gorge went off to feedwater to get the hive up. Meanwhile, the marines got jps/hmgs and one stayed in the comm chair to spam health. The other marine went to refinery and then feedwater, while I attacked his base. I killed both IPs, then his teammate as he left the comm chair, and his teammate got discouraged and left. Well, the jp/hmg marine killed feedwater then got bagged by an ochamber. He was like "rofl I won!!" and I told him our original hive had been engine and he'd lost cuz i ate his IP. He didn't believe me. So then I showed him the demo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scent of Fear is my fav sens upgrade, and I really like the idea your throwing out there. Might be (though juyst slightly) quicker because of the 6 sources saved when building sensory.... And hell, you only need three sensory, usually defenses are placed all around...
I really like that...
A lot of people said it depends upon the conditions your hive is in. Hive situation i.e. could vary; if the marines are working to push your efforts back, remember you do have resources and your team is responsible too defend them. This is one thing I hate about some players; they refuse to respond to "OUR hive is under attack" or "Resource tower is under attack" voice warnings.
In order for there to be an effective offense, they're must be an effective defense. Defenses in my opinion should be mobile, but also static to keep the enemy wondering. Outsmart your enemy and you can use freebies like these. I personally find getting a lerk into the enemy base, using cloak and silence to be of better effect. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> </span>
Odds are, you would have won no matter what chamber order you choose. Winning with sensory first is certainly doable, just harder and riskier than defense first.
Standard, but true all the same.
Or visit the server he plays on and check out the competition there. You can't really dismiss one side or the other without seeing the competition first (This goes for both sides <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). Seeing is believing... especially when arguing about it over, what 5 threads? hasn't gotten either side anywhere.
Just to cast my lot... I'm pro-defense first <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines I play against have pretty sick aim. Everytime we've tried to do something else, we usually get smacked around for it unless the pre-upgrade wars are heavily in skulks favor.
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When I say decent marines players, I mean that they take one of the two extremely easy counters to both chambers, or just quick-tech JPs+HMGs, and win.
Obs+scan+hive occupation>sensory.
MT>movement.
When I say decent marines players, I mean that they take one of the two extremely easy counters to both chambers, or just quick-tech JPs+HMGs, and win.
Obs+scan+hive occupation>sensory.
MT>movement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You wouldn't know that before it's too late.