I agree with some people here. Most players join the game and want THEIR tactic to be used. They do not stop crying for buildings/weapons and blaming the commander for beeing stupid. These players think they are a gift of god with mastery in commanding and only them (or at least their tactic) can rule the kharaa (in the end they just run around alone). I play alien most of the time and there is much more teamwork. Players are talking via voicecom or they just type what they want to say. Maybe frontiermen should talk too instead of blaming the commander, eh?
I really love COMMing. I mean, nothing gives me a happier feeling than turning an unorganized bunch of pub marines into an effective team that does what's told. Of course, there are always some problems...
Number one problem is the people who do nothing but whine for better equipment. I don't mind someone asking for a nice new toy every now and then, but people who just sit in the base and repeat "HMG" really get me mad. My vaccine against them is to use the voice com and tell them "If you're doing nothing, you're getting nothing. Results yield better weapons and believe me, I'm observant. Now shut up and get to it!". If they don't bother to listen, they're not worth any more attention. There are other, more useful marines in the team, so why not concentrate on them instead?
Number two problem is the people who actually get aggravated when their fave rush/other tactic isn't used. I don't listen to these complaints either. Why bother, if you know what you're doing.
My suggestions to all the marines: <b>(1)</b> Lay off bothering the comm with equipment requests, unless the equipment will actually do some good, like for instance a welder for welding annoying vents shut, or a GL to crack a WoL near a hive. Unless the COMM is a braindead zombie on crack, he will arm and equip his marines when he feels he can afford to do so. Your survival ensures the COMM's survival, so it's not like he's holding out on you.
<b>(2)</b> Do not question the COMM's strategic decisions, unless it really looks like he's either completely clueless, lost or just not responding to anything and doing nothing. A good time to question the COMM's competence is for example seeing a tf and more that 4 turrets pop up in base at the beginning, or repeatedly noticing that the COMM doesn't respond to anything the team says and does not in any way clarify his plans if asked to. If you have no idea what your team is supposed to do, it's time to find a COMM who does.
<b>(3)</b> Before deciding to press the "Eject Comm" switch or addressing rude messages to him, ask him one last time to tell you his plan. If he has none, go ahead and vote, but <b>if he has a plan, no matter how weird it is</b>, let him stay and see how far he can take you. After all, it's just a round of NS, not your entire life. If the latter is ruined, you can't blame the comm.
<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>P.S. Thanks to the alien player who informed me of my team's impending doom by saying "Attention mobile meat pies: The combined jogging and banquet event has begun". You really made my day.</span>
I'm sure commanding willingness will increase come 1.1 - flayra seems to be implementing several features that will make it less of a chore. I personally am reluctant to command as of 1.04 due to me having to figth the interface a lot. It's lot of hard work that isn't necessary due to the way it's created. It gives me much frustration, so I tend to try and avoid comming. You'll always meet bitching moaning marines, but knowing that you can handle the interface better would make me volunteer more often than I do at the moment.
1) Interface. Comming is difficult enough without having to fight against a poor interface. It's like going back to Warcraft II after having played Total Annihilation. I realize that it's harder to make a good RTS interface for a FPS engine, but some real work needs to be done.
2) Marines who won't follow orders. You can usually get them to with a lot of explaining, shouting, more explaining, etc. but it takes a lot of effort and makes my stress levels shoot waaaay up.
<!--QuoteBegin--Archilleos+Feb 27 2003, 07:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Archilleos @ Feb 27 2003, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tell you I y i dont go comm anymore.
Back in 1.03 I started being comm... after 2 or 3 knockbacks I got the point bout good commanding... with a decent marineteam following orders I won 3 of 4 games. Then 1.04 came out... and ****, i have no more clue what to do! Hivelockdowns hardly work anymore, siegeoutposts are out of hiverange... If I try to get to some HA I cant reach it and... well, I´m lacking a good overall strat. And I truly hate JP Rushes... I WOULD like to Comm, but although I read the Frontiersman stratforum and play daily... somehow... im not getting enlightet what to do.... its...weird... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was afraid of the same thing. First time i jumped com mode in 1.04, i tried the old tactic and we sadly lost. After that I didn't go com for weeks, I was just afraid of losing. Now when none wants to com, I decided to give it a try and guess what, we won <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now im over my fears and im doing good again. Just give it a shot, hive lockdowns DO work, as long as you try some different strats with moderate marines <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Before my girlfriend gave me NeverWinter Nights as a present, all I would do is command because so many players can't put up with the abuse. I was a MSN Internet Access Technical Representative at a call center, so I have had quite a bit of experience with taking verbal abuse and just letting it roll off like water off a duck's back.
Not everyone had this horrible experience, so I have noticed another disturbing trend, Commanders who constantly insult their grunts. And I mean constantly, the grunts don't even get a whiff of praise or encouragement when they do something right. What kind of team do you think comes out of quite liberally letting them know in explicit details how they are all n00bs?
I know I have done this on occassion, usually when I am in a bad mood and it is no fault of the other players, so I just hop out of the chair right then and let them all know that I'm sorry for my rude behaviour. Interestingly enough, most players will either react one of two ways to this: they will tell you quite liberally how much I suck or they will say its okay and they understand, so they want me to get back in the chair, and its this reaction that really surprises me. I've always wanted to put on fun games for people, maybe even design computer games one day, so I've found that the amount of respect you give other players will usually increase the enjoyment of the experience. Talking smack has its place, especially if you know how to say just kidding and have a nice day afterwards, but in larger unforgiving amounts it can really hurt either side of the marine team.
It just occured to me, what if commanders could reward particular marines with medals, a small holographic symbol above their head that only other marines can see, like the way points. Here are the initial ideas on this poping into my head for what kinds of symbols there could be:
<i><b>Various Smiley Faces</b></i> >Just for fun and to express friendly relations with your troops. <i><b>Different Colored Stars</b></i> >These could be to show distinguished service, and this would be also a nice way to just find those marines you know can get the job done when a bunch of marines are together. <i><b>Symbols that clearly show purpose and role</i></b> >This would be so that other players know what a particular player's role is at the moment (ATM), for example, defender/guard dury, builder/construction worker, welder medic, scout/spy, group assualter, and so on.
The hopeful result from this would be more friendly, respectable, and just plain fun relations between commander and grunts. Who wouldn't want their accomplishments to be acknowledged and praised by their leader?
<!--QuoteBegin--Scinet+Feb 27 2003, 11:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scinet @ Feb 27 2003, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>(3)</b> Before deciding to press the "Eject Comm" switch or addressing rude messages to him, ask him one last time to tell you his plan. If he has none, go ahead and vote, but <b>if he has a plan, no matter how weird it is</b>, let him stay and see how far he can take you. After all, it's just a round of NS, not your entire life. If the latter is ruined, you can't blame the comm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> amen to that! man i swear when it comes to marines its all about social and verbal issues. one time, i was pulling off one of my wierd strategies, and i was prepared for the 8 year olds. marine: (in a 8 year old voice in voicecomm) comm get me a phase gate NOW(dont u hate this word? now? how could it make sense for a commander to take ORDERS from a ****? imagine wat itll be like in the military...) me (comm): marine, please go back to that waypoint, i dont need a 2nd hive. (i was being VERY nice, usually works with people who has any maturity at all...) marine: **** THAT GET A PHASE HERE NOW me: *sigh*, u asked for it... ill give u a blue ring instead. now youre an angel." marine: what? SUYF AND GET ME A PHASE GATE!" /me ignores... marine: WHATS THIS WAYPOINT ON MY HEAD marine: ITS SO ANNOYING N00b COMM DONT PUT WAYPOINTS ON PEOPLE's HEADS marine COMM GET THIS THING OFF ME U N00B me: good job guys now i'll hand u guys HMGs... other marines: yeey HMG the dumb marine: COMM GET A PHASE GATE DAMN THIS STUPID WAYPOINT fjsghas9g8a
I know! I know! I know why nobody wants to go comm.
It's because nobody listens to the commander. There is always at least one **** marine in every game who has his own idea of how the game should be played. He's on the radio constantly, basically commanding the others in spite of the comm's orders.
Then there's the other type of marine - the silent rambo type. He goes off alone, doesn't respond to any orders, basically thinking that he can win the game all by himself.
We're obviously talking about pub games here and perhaps the marines who don't listen are just fairly new to the game. However, sooner or later everybody has to figure out that the ONLY way to win as marines is to follow the comm's strategy. Whether you like it or not.
I don't like to be comm. Not at all. In addition to interface and n00b mentality issues, there's also the problem of having a low fps. However, if no-one else wants to do it and I'm near the CC, I'll drop some IP's to prevent an immediate loss.
<!--QuoteBegin--CanadianWolverine+Feb 27 2003, 12:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CanadianWolverine @ Feb 27 2003, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was a MSN Internet Access Technical Representative at a call center, so I have had quite a bit of experience with taking verbal abuse <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--GaMeRLiFe+Feb 27 2003, 01:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GaMeRLiFe @ Feb 27 2003, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [QUOTE=Scinet,Feb 27 2003, 11:12 AM] <b>(3)</b> me: *sigh*, u asked for it... ill give u a blue ring instead. now youre an angel." marine: what? SUYF AND GET ME A PHASE GATE!" /me ignores... marine: WHATS THIS WAYPOINT ON MY HEAD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh. Oh my. This is the correct response, I believe.
Also, a comm being able to tag his players with different symbols for their various "roles" sounds like a good idea.
I don't comm because I don't have any comm experience because I don't comm because I don't have any comm experience...
Also, I cannot use voicecomm 95% of the time, because it will either wake somebody up or make them think I'm talking to them.
"Get to viaduct NOW!" "Whaaaat?" "The game, man, the game! Not you!" "Oh, okay." ..... "Okay, build the res. Cover him." "Whaaaat?" "NOT TALKING TO YOU!!!"
*sigh* Yeah, I need to try comming more, though, even though it is loads of stress for little reward. "MAIN MAIN MAIN MAIN GET BACK HERE SUPER PRONTO SKULK MUNCHIN ahhhhhh crap we just lost the game."
I hate being commander. Everyone just shouts at you. Its been said before...Because its true. I especially hate the players that blame the commander that is attempting to stop 5 Onos attacking the base, with low res, thanks to Previous Commanders that could'nt cut it. I do not see how the player that happens to jump into the chair as a last hope of holding the aliens back, can possibly be blamed for losing the game...Thats just lame. Im just suprised we could hold 4 Onos back for 20 minutes...thats all..but were they happy with that?...noooo...Stupid lame players..They may of put me off for a very long time.....At least until 1.1
IF there are no commanders (experienced) AND there are only noobs who cant command THEN nominate someone to learn, and follow his EVERY order ELSE die a horrible death and dont even try to win
Not really a law more of a IF then else sequence.... meh.
Now that is a good idea. Rewarding the Marines with some sort of visible symbol would be a great incentive.
But to the lack of comms now, it's stress. Fighting a losing battle is bad enough without having marines constantly trying to "backseat" command. If they wanna command, get in the chair, if not... do what your comm tells you. It's partly the interface, partly the hassle of having to organize a bunch of unorganized rambos, but mostly the flak you get because you sometimes do something that they don't like.
Mostly its due to the fact that the Commander gets yelled and screamed at for EVERYTHING. When I comm, I usually listen to my marines...I play the game backwards, I let the marines command and I put down buildings for them. Oddly enough, this does tend to work half the time. Usually if I give orders, waypoints, tell people to "GET TO CARGO!!" no one does anything and everyone dies. So I'm forced to just build stuff for them, why? because no one will do what I tell them, so if we want to have a chance...I gotta play it that way. I've had ONE comm game where I did all the orders, and everyone (except 1-2 rambos) did everything I wanted. Ya know, we won that game...we not only won, but we slaughtered, and everyone said "GJ comm!" Even the Aliens said "GJ comm"...which surprised me. People just refuse to listen, and would rather scream at the comm to listen to THEM all game, folks, if you wanna give the orders, YOU comm, if you see a gun on your screen, SUYF!
I've had games where the commander never gave any guns, never capped ANY res points, never secured ANY hives, built ZERO turrets, our orders, run around and make sure the aliens get no res towers, and hunt the gorges...we won that game. While we were running around, killing every alien res tower, and murdering the gorges, by the time they STARTED to build the 2nd hive, he already had upgrades, HA and HMGs for ALL of us, we did a HA death march, and won. People were yelling at him..."comm is a noob, build the res by me!" "you suck comm, build turrets at base!"...but ya know, he just didn't take any crap, and did what HIS plan was, and it worked, and I'd be his marine anyday <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I feel the commanders pain, and im just a Marine. People constantly demanding equipment/buildings, or humping the armoury when the comm's yelling for them to get through the phase gate since a hive is under attack! Its enough to stress me out and then im skulk food... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> .
anyone got a password protected server (preferably British) that i could join? cos im sick of the s*** that goes on in the pubs. I do my best to follow orders. Place under attack with a phase gate when im near a pase gate? The only way to get me there faster is to perform the Rite of Ash-Kente... (sorry, very obscure Terry Pratchett reference. To get it you have to have read "Reaper Man". And just to make it worse, i think i misspelt the name of the rite <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->). I lost sound and still played better than one marine in terms of following orders! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I could cry...
Getting back on topic a bit more, I dont congratulate/ commiserate with the comm enough. A good job or nice try would help alot i think, but still at least i dont place blame on the comm. A commander is a presous resource, and the good ones are worth 10X their weight in platinum.
The problem is that people expect a perfect commander, I recently played a game where the comm was great we took 2 hives early and he always kept us full of health and ammo. I think most comms have to remember that they also have to keep their teams moral and expectations up, if they expect to find health and ammo around all the time then they will be much more willing to attack.
Ok thats a solution for the commanders, but I really think its the marines fault, thats why I try to defend the comm in chat as much as possible, stop stupid marines telling the comm to use their tactics.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jabba The Hunt+Feb 27 2003, 04:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jabba The Hunt @ Feb 27 2003, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok thats a solution for the commanders, but I really think its the marines fault, thats why I try to defend the comm in chat as much as possible, stop stupid marines telling the comm to use their tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats something i must do more... would be a good idea to get voice comm working again. That would aid the team alot. typing just cant keep up <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is because as everyone who has played with me Flyra knows <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->, i shout <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> , coz 8 marines can't kill 2 skulks and most of the time it's because whilst re-spawners are humping the armoury like dogs and legs, skulks and taking down my phase.
hmmmm
Noob team = comm's nightmare 1/2 noob team = comm can live with "elite" team = comm's paradise
also i always say this over and over again
01...1 builds others cover him 02...A comm is only as good as his troops (hence why i like to turret farm rather than give out guns <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
I always go in the command chair because, frankly I dont care if we lose :/ Ive known people not to follow orders at all so I just capped res on their random ramboings, the aliens were too busy covering the strategic points of the map. Teched to the max, got out the chair and went for a fly around with my shotgun lol. "oh no the commander left, waaaaah"
Without voice comm it's extremely difficult trying to get your orders across with the current interface. So I rarely attempt to comm at all.
Usually when I do its because there are only 4 marines at main base, standing in a circle, all pointing to the right as to whom should comm.
Almost always what'll happen is that during the game some more marines will join. Invariably these people will just rush off somewhere and expect me to be a "puppet comm" for their every need/desire/tactic.
Needless to say when I don't support them a wonderful storm of abuse is sure to follow.
I suppose one positive thing out all of this is that it proves that NS obviously has tight teamwork requirements. It is the very fact that it is so team dependant (a good thing) that most of the ranting arises.
why do your teammates decide to blame the comm because he doesnt give them HA and HMG's within 3 minutes of the game? is it because : 1.they cant read the bar that says Team Resources/ 2.they dont know that the armory is required to rearm, not for the comm to drop you ammo when you dont build or get ammo from the armory?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> 3. decide to rambo off and complain when you dont give them ammo/health? 4. they think that "tapping" the use key will build it faster. 5.they are on a very potent hallucegen(Hlp! i cnt spel!). 6.you decide to give in to their crys for "better weapons" and "health!" by dropping a shotty on the ground. then one guy grabs it and the rest complain that they didnt get a shotty so they are going to keep typing "comm need weapon too: over and over again until you want to drop 50 skulks on top of him. 7. he can read but he thinks its "funny" to blab to you over voice comm. 8. you commit suicide but have the nerve to leave yourself logged as the comm as the ahole you are. do they just LIKE staring at their fingers all day until they get skulk rushed?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> or it it the hallucegen(refer to line 5's reference) my 3.00885 cents on the subject.
I can rarely use the mic, and when I do people can't hear me all that well, so I don't com, it's just to much work sometimes to completely type out your plan just so someone doesn't understand it and you have to type it again, that and I'm not a very good com, I've played and won a few, but lost even more. I'm not going to com cause I know I suck at it.
<!--QuoteBegin--CanadianWolverine+Feb 27 2003, 12:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CanadianWolverine @ Feb 27 2003, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It just occured to me, what if commanders could reward particular marines with medals, a small holographic symbol above their head that only other marines can see, like the way points. Here are the initial ideas on this poping into my head for what kinds of symbols there could be:
<i><b>Various Smiley Faces</b></i> >Just for fun and to express friendly relations with your troops. <i><b>Different Colored Stars</b></i> >These could be to show distinguished service, and this would be also a nice way to just find those marines you know can get the job done when a bunch of marines are together. <i><b>Symbols that clearly show purpose and role</i></b> >This would be so that other players know what a particular player's role is at the moment (ATM), for example, defender/guard dury, builder/construction worker, welder medic, scout/spy, group assualter, and so on.
The hopeful result from this would be more friendly, respectable, and just plain fun relations between commander and grunts. Who wouldn't want their accomplishments to be acknowledged and praised by their leader? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Incredibly good suggestion! Maybe it would do to just let the commander group the marines and let the marines see the group belongings. The commander should be able to put own names to the groups. Apparently pub games as marines need help to get that teamwork going. As a grunt you need some hints about what your current assignment is. Symbols/groupnames over everyones heads would really do the trick I belive
When I Join the Marines I never have this problem... because I communicate and find out what the command situation will be. Regardless, I race to the chair anyway because im one of those uber commander types.
And for the record, I don't let Marines that constaltly demand crap intimidate me. I make sure that everyone knows "If you aren't wearing armor or holding a weapon I gave you, dont ask me for a medpack!" of course, having a Mic helps too. Also "I don't plan on giving individuals packages of hard-earned res to go off and die with. Go get nodes and you get upgrades BEFORE I hand out weapons."
I've noticed that no matter how far you are into the game, as soon as the first HA falls, the "team" of Marines becomes killhungary pack of rambos.
Publicly speaking of course... clanplay is a little (note: way the hell) better than this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I purpose a new law in the NS world
IF there are no commanders (experienced) AND there are only noobs who cant command THEN nominate someone to learn, and follow his EVERY order ELSE die a horrible death and dont even try to win<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
END IF, or your post won't compile properly <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
there are some servers out there that has nearly an entire team that knows what there doing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> the marines win nearly as much as the aliens do
Comments
I play alien most of the time and there is much more teamwork. Players are talking via voicecom or they just type what they want to say. Maybe frontiermen should talk too instead of blaming the commander, eh?
Number one problem is the people who do nothing but whine for better equipment. I don't mind someone asking for a nice new toy every now and then, but people who just sit in the base and repeat "HMG" really get me mad. My vaccine against them is to use the voice com and tell them "If you're doing nothing, you're getting nothing. Results yield better weapons and believe me, I'm observant. Now shut up and get to it!". If they don't bother to listen, they're not worth any more attention. There are other, more useful marines in the team, so why not concentrate on them instead?
Number two problem is the people who actually get aggravated when their fave rush/other tactic isn't used. I don't listen to these complaints either. Why bother, if you know what you're doing.
My suggestions to all the marines:
<b>(1)</b> Lay off bothering the comm with equipment requests, unless the equipment will actually do some good, like for instance a welder for welding annoying vents shut, or a GL to crack a WoL near a hive. Unless the COMM is a braindead zombie on crack, he will arm and equip his marines when he feels he can afford to do so. Your survival ensures the COMM's survival, so it's not like he's holding out on you.
<b>(2)</b> Do not question the COMM's strategic decisions, unless it really looks like he's either completely clueless, lost or just not responding to anything and doing nothing. A good time to question the COMM's competence is for example seeing a tf and more that 4 turrets pop up in base at the beginning, or repeatedly noticing that the COMM doesn't respond to anything the team says and does not in any way clarify his plans if asked to. If you have no idea what your team is supposed to do, it's time to find a COMM who does.
<b>(3)</b> Before deciding to press the "Eject Comm" switch or addressing rude messages to him, ask him one last time to tell you his plan. If he has none, go ahead and vote, but <b>if he has a plan, no matter how weird it is</b>, let him stay and see how far he can take you. After all, it's just a round of NS, not your entire life. If the latter is ruined, you can't blame the comm.
<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>P.S. Thanks to the alien player who informed me of my team's impending doom by saying "Attention mobile meat pies: The combined jogging and banquet event has begun". You really made my day.</span>
1) Interface. Comming is difficult enough without having to fight against a poor interface. It's like going back to Warcraft II after having played Total Annihilation. I realize that it's harder to make a good RTS interface for a FPS engine, but some real work needs to be done.
2) Marines who won't follow orders. You can usually get them to with a lot of explaining, shouting, more explaining, etc. but it takes a lot of effort and makes my stress levels shoot waaaay up.
Back in 1.03 I started being comm... after 2 or 3 knockbacks I got the point bout good commanding... with a decent marineteam following orders I won 3 of 4 games.
Then 1.04 came out... and ****, i have no more clue what to do! Hivelockdowns hardly work anymore, siegeoutposts are out of hiverange... If I try to get to some HA I cant reach it and... well, I´m lacking a good overall strat. And I truly hate JP Rushes... I WOULD like to Comm, but although I read the Frontiersman stratforum and play daily... somehow... im not getting enlightet what to do.... its...weird... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was afraid of the same thing. First time i jumped com mode in 1.04, i tried the old tactic and we sadly lost. After that I didn't go com for weeks, I was just afraid of losing. Now when none wants to com, I decided to give it a try and guess what, we won <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now im over my fears and im doing good again. Just give it a shot, hive lockdowns DO work, as long as you try some different strats with moderate marines <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not everyone had this horrible experience, so I have noticed another disturbing trend, Commanders who constantly insult their grunts. And I mean constantly, the grunts don't even get a whiff of praise or encouragement when they do something right. What kind of team do you think comes out of quite liberally letting them know in explicit details how they are all n00bs?
I know I have done this on occassion, usually when I am in a bad mood and it is no fault of the other players, so I just hop out of the chair right then and let them all know that I'm sorry for my rude behaviour. Interestingly enough, most players will either react one of two ways to this: they will tell you quite liberally how much I suck or they will say its okay and they understand, so they want me to get back in the chair, and its this reaction that really surprises me. I've always wanted to put on fun games for people, maybe even design computer games one day, so I've found that the amount of respect you give other players will usually increase the enjoyment of the experience. Talking smack has its place, especially if you know how to say just kidding and have a nice day afterwards, but in larger unforgiving amounts it can really hurt either side of the marine team.
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It just occured to me, what if commanders could reward particular marines with medals, a small holographic symbol above their head that only other marines can see, like the way points. Here are the initial ideas on this poping into my head for what kinds of symbols there could be:
<i><b>Various Smiley Faces</b></i>
>Just for fun and to express friendly relations with your troops.
<i><b>Different Colored Stars</b></i>
>These could be to show distinguished service, and this would be also a nice way to just find those marines you know can get the job done when a bunch of marines are together.
<i><b>Symbols that clearly show purpose and role</i></b>
>This would be so that other players know what a particular player's role is at the moment (ATM), for example, defender/guard dury, builder/construction worker, welder medic, scout/spy, group assualter, and so on.
The hopeful result from this would be more friendly, respectable, and just plain fun relations between commander and grunts. Who wouldn't want their accomplishments to be acknowledged and praised by their leader?
amen to that!
man i swear when it comes to marines its all about social and verbal issues.
one time, i was pulling off one of my wierd strategies, and i was prepared for the 8 year olds.
marine: (in a 8 year old voice in voicecomm) comm get me a phase gate NOW(dont u hate this word? now? how could it make sense for a commander to take ORDERS from a ****? imagine wat itll be like in the military...)
me (comm): marine, please go back to that waypoint, i dont need a 2nd hive. (i was being VERY nice, usually works with people who has any maturity at all...)
marine: **** THAT GET A PHASE HERE NOW
me: *sigh*, u asked for it... ill give u a blue ring instead. now youre an angel."
marine: what? SUYF AND GET ME A PHASE GATE!"
/me ignores...
marine: WHATS THIS WAYPOINT ON MY HEAD
marine: ITS SO ANNOYING N00b COMM DONT PUT WAYPOINTS ON PEOPLE's HEADS
marine COMM GET THIS THING OFF ME U N00B
me: good job guys now i'll hand u guys HMGs...
other marines: yeey HMG
the dumb marine: COMM GET A PHASE GATE DAMN THIS STUPID WAYPOINT fjsghas9g8a
It's because nobody listens to the commander. There is always at least one **** marine in every game who has his own idea of how the game should be played. He's on the radio constantly, basically commanding the others in spite of the comm's orders.
Then there's the other type of marine - the silent rambo type. He goes off alone, doesn't respond to any orders, basically thinking that he can win the game all by himself.
We're obviously talking about pub games here and perhaps the marines who don't listen are just fairly new to the game. However, sooner or later everybody has to figure out that the ONLY way to win as marines is to follow the comm's strategy. Whether you like it or not.
LOL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
me: *sigh*, u asked for it... ill give u a blue ring instead. now youre an angel."
marine: what? SUYF AND GET ME A PHASE GATE!"
/me ignores...
marine: WHATS THIS WAYPOINT ON MY HEAD
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh. Oh my. This is the correct response, I believe.
Also, a comm being able to tag his players with different symbols for their various "roles" sounds like a good idea.
Also, I cannot use voicecomm 95% of the time, because it will either wake somebody up or make them think I'm talking to them.
"Get to viaduct NOW!"
"Whaaaat?"
"The game, man, the game! Not you!"
"Oh, okay."
.....
"Okay, build the res. Cover him."
"Whaaaat?"
"NOT TALKING TO YOU!!!"
*sigh*
Yeah, I need to try comming more, though, even though it is loads of stress for little reward.
"MAIN MAIN MAIN MAIN GET BACK HERE SUPER PRONTO SKULK MUNCHIN ahhhhhh crap we just lost the game."
I especially hate the players that blame the commander that is attempting to stop 5 Onos attacking the base, with low res, thanks to Previous Commanders that could'nt cut it. I do not see how the player that happens to jump into the chair as a last hope of holding the aliens back, can possibly be blamed for losing the game...Thats just lame. Im just suprised we could hold 4 Onos back for 20 minutes...thats all..but were they happy with that?...noooo...Stupid lame players..They may of put me off for a very long time.....At least until 1.1
IF there are no commanders (experienced)
AND there are only noobs who cant command
THEN nominate someone to learn, and follow his EVERY order
ELSE die a horrible death and dont even try to win
Not really a law more of a IF then else sequence.... meh.
But to the lack of comms now, it's stress.
Fighting a losing battle is bad enough without having marines constantly trying to "backseat" command. If they wanna command, get in the chair, if not... do what your comm tells you. It's partly the interface, partly the hassle of having to organize a bunch of unorganized rambos, but mostly the flak you get because you sometimes do something that they don't like.
I've had games where the commander never gave any guns, never capped ANY res points, never secured ANY hives, built ZERO turrets, our orders, run around and make sure the aliens get no res towers, and hunt the gorges...we won that game. While we were running around, killing every alien res tower, and murdering the gorges, by the time they STARTED to build the 2nd hive, he already had upgrades, HA and HMGs for ALL of us, we did a HA death march, and won. People were yelling at him..."comm is a noob, build the res by me!" "you suck comm, build turrets at base!"...but ya know, he just didn't take any crap, and did what HIS plan was, and it worked, and I'd be his marine anyday <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
People constantly demanding equipment/buildings, or humping the armoury when the comm's yelling for them to get through the phase gate since a hive is under attack!
Its enough to stress me out and then im skulk food... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> .
anyone got a password protected server (preferably British) that i could join? cos im sick of the s*** that goes on in the pubs. I do my best to follow orders. Place under attack with a phase gate when im near a pase gate? The only way to get me there faster is to perform the Rite of Ash-Kente... (sorry, very obscure Terry Pratchett reference. To get it you have to have read "Reaper Man". And just to make it worse, i think i misspelt the name of the rite <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->).
I lost sound and still played better than one marine in terms of following orders! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I could cry...
Getting back on topic a bit more, I dont congratulate/ commiserate with the comm enough. A good job or nice try would help alot i think, but still at least i dont place blame on the comm. A commander is a presous resource, and the good ones are worth 10X their weight in platinum.
Ok thats a solution for the commanders, but I really think its the marines fault, thats why I try to defend the comm in chat as much as possible, stop stupid marines telling the comm to use their tactics.
1) I do not like having to deal with jerks constantly berating me or demanding I give them such & such weapon/item.
2) I have a pos pc & it handles the comm interface rather poorly.
3) I never play Marines, due to the jerks mentioned in reason 1) and because of the lack of teamwork one finds on so many servers.
Thats something i must do more... would be a good idea to get voice comm working again. That would aid the team alot. typing just cant keep up <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is because as everyone who has played with me Flyra knows <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->, i shout <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> , coz 8 marines can't kill 2 skulks and most of the time it's because whilst re-spawners are humping the armoury like dogs and legs, skulks and taking down my phase.
hmmmm
Noob team = comm's nightmare
1/2 noob team = comm can live with
"elite" team = comm's paradise
also i always say this over and over again
01...1 builds others cover him
02...A comm is only as good as his troops (hence why i like to turret farm rather than give out guns <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
zippy
Usually when I do its because there are only 4 marines at main base, standing in a circle, all pointing to the right as to whom should comm.
Almost always what'll happen is that during the game some more marines will join. Invariably these people will just rush off somewhere and expect me to be a "puppet comm" for their every need/desire/tactic.
Needless to say when I don't support them a wonderful storm of abuse is sure to follow.
I suppose one positive thing out all of this is that it proves that NS obviously has tight teamwork requirements. It is the very fact that it is so team dependant (a good thing) that most of the ranting arises.
is it because :
1.they cant read the bar that says Team Resources/
2.they dont know that the armory is required to rearm, not for the comm to drop you ammo when you dont build or get ammo from the armory?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
3. decide to rambo off and complain when you dont give them ammo/health?
4. they think that "tapping" the use key will build it faster.
5.they are on a very potent hallucegen(Hlp! i cnt spel!).
6.you decide to give in to their crys for "better weapons" and "health!"
by dropping a shotty on the ground. then one guy grabs it and the rest complain that they didnt get a shotty so they are going to keep typing "comm need weapon too: over and over again until you want to drop 50 skulks on top of him.
7. he can read but he thinks its "funny" to blab to you over voice comm.
8. you commit suicide but have the nerve to leave yourself logged as the comm as the ahole you are.
do they just LIKE staring at their fingers all day until they get skulk rushed?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> or it it the hallucegen(refer to line 5's reference)
my 3.00885 cents on the subject.
<i><b>Various Smiley Faces</b></i>
>Just for fun and to express friendly relations with your troops.
<i><b>Different Colored Stars</b></i>
>These could be to show distinguished service, and this would be also a nice way to just find those marines you know can get the job done when a bunch of marines are together.
<i><b>Symbols that clearly show purpose and role</i></b>
>This would be so that other players know what a particular player's role is at the moment (ATM), for example, defender/guard dury, builder/construction worker, welder medic, scout/spy, group assualter, and so on.
The hopeful result from this would be more friendly, respectable, and just plain fun relations between commander and grunts. Who wouldn't want their accomplishments to be acknowledged and praised by their leader? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Incredibly good suggestion!
Maybe it would do to just let the commander group the marines and let the marines see the group belongings.
The commander should be able to put own names to the groups.
Apparently pub games as marines need help to get that teamwork going. As a grunt you need some hints about what your current assignment is.
Symbols/groupnames over everyones heads would really do the trick I belive
And for the record, I don't let Marines that constaltly demand crap intimidate me. I make sure that everyone knows "If you aren't wearing armor or holding a weapon I gave you, dont ask me for a medpack!" of course, having a Mic helps too. Also "I don't plan on giving individuals packages of hard-earned res to go off and die with. Go get nodes and you get upgrades BEFORE I hand out weapons."
I've noticed that no matter how far you are into the game, as soon as the first HA falls, the "team" of Marines becomes killhungary pack of rambos.
Publicly speaking of course... clanplay is a little (note: way the hell) better than this.
IF there are no commanders (experienced)
AND there are only noobs who cant command
THEN nominate someone to learn, and follow his EVERY order
ELSE die a horrible death and dont even try to win<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
END IF, or your post won't compile properly <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
the marines win nearly as much as the aliens do