Gorging For Res...
Kid-A
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
Comments
All things being equal, if one gorge can do it, 2 more skulks gorging to capture res in safe zones is better. Why? One gorge simply can't move that fast, and the earlier you have nozzles capped the more res accumulation.
What I dont understand is the ferocity with which people dismiss this tactic as a 'waste of resources'. 13 res to gorge. Can't that be reclaimed within 1 minute of the res tower going up?
Does anyone have some figures for, say, a 7v7 matches, where one match has only one gorge and another where a couple skulks cap res when they reach 33? Assume no RTs get destroyed by marines...
*faints*
You should also ask the gorg before you go because he might have bigger plans (... its cool comm, I just ejected you so I can make a RT!).
It's true use build makes the RT go up faster... but what about your gorge? Will he like having a good 30 seconds of low res coming in? What if there are multiple skulk cappers? Gorges need res to make life good for the rest of us (I for one, can't gorge for carp, but I give all kinds of love to a good gorge, always think of your gorgie first, and he will make you a happy lurk/fade/onos/whathaveyou) and even a 30 second gap in the influx of res can make life hell for your gorge. I will admit, sometimes building it up faster will make an impact, but generally it's the wrong impact. All IMO, by the way.
I don't think that you should bother building the RT, because if a marine happens to wander past, both <b>you and the tower</b> are usually dead. Instead hide in the shadows and use the RT as bait for unsuspecting marines.
You can quickly get 4 or 5 res nodes this way, and should the marines take out 1 of your RTs, then you'll still have gained rather than lost, if not wasted marine time and delayed their own RT.
Having said that, the skulk who becomes a gorge temporarily to cap a node, should be able to make an informed decision to whether that RT is worthwhile or not.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why?
Every time you do it wastes 15 resources almost no matter what.
If you stayed at 33, all your resources would just go to the gorge at no loss. This significantly delays the second hive.
Say 5 skulks did it. At 15 a skulk, that is 75 resources which have been thrown into the garbage can. (Think 3 additional resource towers which the original gorge could put up for not doing it...)
If the gorge has any skill whatsoever he can make more resouce towers in the same time and get the hive up faster. Walking to new resouce towers is not hard for ANYONE who knows the map, and if you do not know the map, you SHOULD NOT be gorging.
Another point: The gorge does not get the full share of the resources, prolonging anything he is trying to do.
it would mean your master gorge can sit tight in a secure location while the others get the nodes, while gorge may be killed on route.
but, hmmmmmm the waste of res to evlove does seem to be a bit of a ****, but if i am at 33 and i see a free node in a safe location that i would gorge, take it and as soon as my res gets to 4 i would go back to skulk.
the assumption that i am at 33 already means that we have lots of nodes anyway.
hahahahahahhahahahaa!!! Nice one! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Isn't there someone who really knows the workings of the res system that can answer this?
[11]alex
i've played a game where _everyone_ just hammered away at the marine base and all the things they built untill all the skulks had 33, then _everyone_ drops a node (there should be no marine nodes anyway) dropping 6 rts, then everyone goes back to skulk except one guy who has pretty plentiful resources.
Having the extra skulk at the beginning can help with attacks. Though it can be some time before carapace and other wizzy stuff becomes availiable.
Wether you go Lerk and "waste" your res or build res towers makes no difference for the Gorge. Every Skulk using upgrades needs res for some time to get back to 33. Meanwhile the "main" Gorge will only get his normal share of res. If you build a resource tower then do not only drop it but build it (use). Otherwise you "waste" (for all the people who think it's a waste of res) all your res AND it needs a long time until the resource tower begins to collect res. The "main" Gorge will survive these seconds you need to build it and afterwards he will get MUCH more res. While you build this resource tower he can just put up some defense around your hive.
Even Skulks can hide in resource towers and it works fine *chompchomp* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I do recall a game on ns_nothing where we did this. I think it was the marines relocated to cargo bay and we had them locked in with skulk attacks. We couldnt get in to attack the res points, but they werent getting out either. We had a few skulks knock up some res points so we could quickly take every other res point on the map. Along with that we also got the gorge to go back to skulk just as the 2nd hive went up, so as to return all his res to the pool. We faded up pretty fast, and manage to survive a number of jet pack rushes from the marines (they did take out a hive once I think), but with all the other res points on the map, we soon had it back up.
Valid strategy in rare situations, when you have a team that is working together. As has been mentioned before, on most servers, someone who does this will invariably stay gorge and be tempted to 'put up some defenses' or 'go build another RT'. This just slows things down for the original gorge and leaves the team short one attacking unit (or more in some cases).
That was me. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Actually, I know that organised pubs do exist, I have certainly played on a few and frequent 1 or 2 of them. My comment was meant as a joke, as most pubs are usually highly unorganised. To be honest, finding an organised pub where people actually work as a team, is quite rare, in my opinion.
As for the gorging for a res issue, I think it is ok as long as you have 33 res and ungorge as soon as your are done. Need defense? Thats what the early game skulks are supposed to do. Defend alien structures and slow marine movement.
If the 2:nd hive isn't up yet, DON'T. You will slow down the gorges income, therby delaying the hive if it isn't started yet, or leech the res pool meaning it will take longer for you to fade.
Basically it is only a good idea if the 2:nd hive is on its way, the gorg is no-where near and/or overflowing. And even then it is only good if the Res is in a "safe" place, good example would be the hidden res node at Freight elevator on ns_caged.
All these factors are of course over-ruled by the gorge, so if your gorge tells you to do it, do it, if he tells you not to, don't. He should have a better view of the situation then you, and if it turns out it was a mistake, you can always blame him.
At least 90% of the time it is a bad idea though.
Anyway... in a game today, we had 3 skulks cap almost at the same time and it didn't make much of a difference and probably accelerated us getting a hive. We started in cargo and the gorge did not cap the nearby nodes and went off to cap the nodes near viaduct. So it was easy for the skulks to cap the nodes.
The Gorg has run off to a far off hive and capped some Rt's around there and is saving for the hive/upgrades. All is right with the world, BUT, there is a free res node still uncapped RIGHT OUTSIDE your main hive. In the early going your Skulks are, more often than not, going to be respawning, (or at the very least healing), at the hive anyway, and the resource nodes close to that hive are therefore resonably well defended by the constant patrol of Skulks that exists anyway.
On the map Eclipse however, I don't suggest this at all without consulting the Gorg on your team, unless the 2nd hive is almost up and you've kept the marines bottled up the whole game.
BTW, to all the detractors out there, Really your right, it IS bad about maybe 70% of the time, but that otehr 30% can not really make OR break a game, but it can deffinatly make it much, much easier o win.
I'm skeptical about this tactic. It makes more sense to me for you to leave your res at 33 so that the gorge gets the excess. I prefer the idea of one or two gorges having the job of building - as in if you want something built you call in the builder rather than becoming one. I guess that's just personal preference, but I haven't really heard enough in favour of this tactic to embrace it...
I think if you decide to temp gorge and put up an RT, you should be responsible for it, and therefore if it is attacked you go and defend it.
As for not being able to find organized pub servers, you're not looking hard enough. I have a dozen in my favorites list that I constantly play on that offer an excellent organized environment. I would have more if I had bothered to look, but these suit me fine from a ping standpoint. Talk to veteran players in IRC, post in server ops, and find the best servers. It will only take a couple minutes of legwork on your part. Be part of the solution!
Can anyone tell me for sure? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the only wasted res is the nes not spent when you team goes back to the ready room because there was not enough res flow to get a hive or build hive defenses. After the first node, 2 gorges is ok, and if others cap off and want to build nodes, let them.
As for not being able to find organized pub servers, you're not looking hard enough. I have a dozen in my favorites list that I constantly play on that offer an excellent organized environment. I would have more if I had bothered to look, but these suit me fine from a ping standpoint. Talk to veteran players in IRC, post in server ops, and find the best servers. It will only take a couple minutes of legwork on your part. Be part of the solution! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
problem with 3-4 people going skulks is that your base will be widely unprotected, unless i read wrong and you meant they go gorge one at a time.
One must not forget when someone goes gorge that is one less efficent fighting unit they lose, if everyone wants to cap res nodes thats fine, but make sure they do it one or 2 at a time, not everyone at once.
No such thing as a panacea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> 95% of the time when I'm gorge, I prefer to be the only gorge. After initial building of RTs and such, I'll be getting roughly five res every second or two, in part due to the fact all my skulks will be capped res-wise. However, if some skulks do go gorge for an RT, it would be best for them to immeadiately go skulk after they recieve to res to do so. In other words, after evolution, they'll have 21 res from the accumulation during gestation, get another res (or two, or three, depending on how many RT there are and the res flow to other players), drop the tower and build it for a bit, then go skulk when they hit four res again. Works fairly well, and it lets the primary dominate the resources again.