Real Life Tsa Lmg
CplDavis
I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The guns of the future here now!</div> If any of you knows anything more about guns then what you learned (often incorrectly) from Counter-Strike.
You would know that a revolver is able to fire faster then an automatic
If u want to see a bit of real TSA weaponry that is in use today scroll to the link below.
If u want to learn how revover is faster then an automatic read here.
WHAT??!! You might say? Let me explain kids. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> In fact a man has the world record for firing 7 shots (out of a 7 round revover) in 1 second.
When you pull the trigger (or hammer on a double action revolver) back on a revolver the entire chamber rotates the next round into position. You then fire the round. And the process is repeated. This allows for a continus reload if you will. A round is chambered and set to fire the instant the trigger is squeezed. This is the same concept that allows a mini gun or other multi barreled gun to have such a high rate of fire.
Now when you fire an automatic hand gun such as a Desert Eagle, Berreta, GLOCK, whatever, the next round is not automaticaly chambered. When the trigger is depressed, the round is fired and the gas blowback from the discharged round moves the slide back and thus ejecting the spent case and allowing room for the next spring loaded bullet to move upward. This takes longer then the revolver. If you were to try to fire off an entire magazine as fast as you possible can, you will lock the slide and the gun will not fire.
So this makes me wonder how the standard TSA sidearm fails to work so well? Maybe its jsut the future of our technology. If I had to explain its accuracy I would refer you NS players to the new NATO 5.7 round.
unlike its unaccurate and and low powered representation in Counter-Strike, the 5.7 was designed to defeat personal body armour on the battlefield. It is capable of penetrating 48 layers of Kevlar. FORTY EIGHT! It has minimal recoil and is highly accurate. The FN P90 SMG is capable of firing an entire 50 round magazine at 900 Rounds per Min. From 50 meters you can fire all 50 rounds into a whole 9 1/2 inches in diameter. Also remember that they are now making 7-10 round revolvers. Plus revolvers never jam lol.
THE REAL PRESENT DAY LMG MADE BY HECKLR AND KOCH
Of other note is the invention and use of caseless ammuniton. Its a bullet that has no casing but rather its surrounded with a solid chemicle booster. This allows for a larger amount of ammunition to be carried.
If you guys want to see real TSA weapons of the current day i recommend you look at what the Germans are working on. Take a look at the new H&K G11 ACR (Advanced Combat Rifle) it holds 50 rounds. The reload ammunition clips are carried on the rifle.
<a href='http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/g11.htm' target='_blank'>http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/g11.htm</a>
You would know that a revolver is able to fire faster then an automatic
If u want to see a bit of real TSA weaponry that is in use today scroll to the link below.
If u want to learn how revover is faster then an automatic read here.
WHAT??!! You might say? Let me explain kids. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> In fact a man has the world record for firing 7 shots (out of a 7 round revover) in 1 second.
When you pull the trigger (or hammer on a double action revolver) back on a revolver the entire chamber rotates the next round into position. You then fire the round. And the process is repeated. This allows for a continus reload if you will. A round is chambered and set to fire the instant the trigger is squeezed. This is the same concept that allows a mini gun or other multi barreled gun to have such a high rate of fire.
Now when you fire an automatic hand gun such as a Desert Eagle, Berreta, GLOCK, whatever, the next round is not automaticaly chambered. When the trigger is depressed, the round is fired and the gas blowback from the discharged round moves the slide back and thus ejecting the spent case and allowing room for the next spring loaded bullet to move upward. This takes longer then the revolver. If you were to try to fire off an entire magazine as fast as you possible can, you will lock the slide and the gun will not fire.
So this makes me wonder how the standard TSA sidearm fails to work so well? Maybe its jsut the future of our technology. If I had to explain its accuracy I would refer you NS players to the new NATO 5.7 round.
unlike its unaccurate and and low powered representation in Counter-Strike, the 5.7 was designed to defeat personal body armour on the battlefield. It is capable of penetrating 48 layers of Kevlar. FORTY EIGHT! It has minimal recoil and is highly accurate. The FN P90 SMG is capable of firing an entire 50 round magazine at 900 Rounds per Min. From 50 meters you can fire all 50 rounds into a whole 9 1/2 inches in diameter. Also remember that they are now making 7-10 round revolvers. Plus revolvers never jam lol.
THE REAL PRESENT DAY LMG MADE BY HECKLR AND KOCH
Of other note is the invention and use of caseless ammuniton. Its a bullet that has no casing but rather its surrounded with a solid chemicle booster. This allows for a larger amount of ammunition to be carried.
If you guys want to see real TSA weapons of the current day i recommend you look at what the Germans are working on. Take a look at the new H&K G11 ACR (Advanced Combat Rifle) it holds 50 rounds. The reload ammunition clips are carried on the rifle.
<a href='http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/g11.htm' target='_blank'>http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/g11.htm</a>
Comments
calling semiauto pistols automatic
As I remember the G11 is compleatly droped as a weapon (due to some silly governental stuff)
and the reason why TSA LMGs blow?
b/c the game would be unbalanced if they didn't
lol, when you get it done post up some pics
I'm not quite sure if thats a joke, I mean it doesn't really apply to anything other then the IRA uses guns, as well as every other armed force in the world.
(p.s. if your wondering why this sounds touchy its b/c I was born in Ireland and have family in N. Ireland)
To my understanding, overheating of any gun can be a problem.
And when a bullet is fired, it is done so by a process that involves a small-scale explosion creating a considerable amount of heat.
And some of this heat is released from the gun when the hot shell casing leaves it.
Isn't this why caseless ammo has (to date) proved unfeasible?
In response to the FN P90 quip...
That kind of accuracy is achieved when the weapon is braced heavily and fired at a range target. Wanna try it while running against a person who's shooting back? Additionally, the P90 has overpenetration problems. The effective range of a P90 ends at about 200 feet as well. It's a CQB weapon taken to the extreme, so to speak. It's a PDW, like the H&K MP5K.
Marik... ANY reaction generates heat and energy. This is simple physics, btw. Yes, ammunition cookoff -can- be a problem in firarms. That's why in automatics they have a stiff, set firing rate when auto. The reason the M134 Vulcan achieves a firing rate of 10,000 RPM is because it has six barrels. Likewise, the M249 SAW is limited to 800 cyclic because it only has one barrel (which also has a tendancy to warp when fired constantly at that rate, and must be replaced. During combat.)
Yeah, i want a gun that is reliable and takes little time to clean/prep/etc if i was a soldier.
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In response to the FN P90 quip...
That kind of accuracy is achieved when the weapon is braced heavily and fired at a range target. Wanna try it while running against a person who's shooting back? Additionally, the P90 has overpenetration problems. The effective range of a P90 ends at about 200 feet as well. It's a CQB weapon taken to the extreme, so to speak. It's a PDW, like the H&K MP5K.
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And isn't the P90 a smg too? smgs are known for their high RoF and poor range... not really a combat weapon; more tactical which is why SWAT (Special Weapons And Tactics, fyi) uses them(SMGs).
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Marik... ANY reaction generates heat and energy. This is simple physics, btw. Yes, ammunition cookoff -can- be a problem in firarms. That's why in automatics they have a stiff, set firing rate when auto. The reason the M134 Vulcan achieves a firing rate of 10,000 RPM is because it has six barrels.
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You learn something new every day. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Likewise, the M249 SAW is limited to 800 cyclic because it only has one barrel <b>(which also has a tendancy to warp when fired constantly at that rate, and must be replaced. During combat.)</b>
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Which is why you dont see many SAWs firing at full capacity... in battle... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> (Wouldn't want THAT to happen when you're fighting!) Again, you learn something new every day. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
/runs
It is wicked technology though - once the US develops something similar of their own, I'm sure it'll see service. We want to design, produce, and use as many products as possible on American soil, that's probably the only reason the US has not switched from the M16A2 (or A3 in some cases) to the HK G36, which is superior in all aspects and fires the same rounds as the M16.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lol, I do find some of this info amuzing
calling semiauto pistols automatic<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they *are* automatic. You know that firearm, the Colt .45 model 1911? Well that's an <i>automatic</i> pistol. That's why the rounds used by it are called .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). I know what you're getting at, but semi-automatic and full-automatic are <b>still automatic</b> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Revolving pistols are called single-action or dual-action (double-action, same difference) depending on their design
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is the same concept that allows a mini gun or other multi barreled gun to have such a high rate of fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The main problem with firing out of a single barrel is not the speed at which we can chamber, fire, and discharge casing, it's overheating of the barrel. The "gatling gun" spreads the heat between 6-10 barrels, and therefore greatly diminishing wear on the barrels, allowing sustained fire for a longer period of time. Even the mini-guns we have today, for instance the .50 cal rigged on the nose of an A-10 Warthog (Anti-Armor [tank/APC/MA/etc] aircraft is designed to fire the amount of rounds it has in its storage and NO MORE consecutively. If it fires all of its rounds in one continuous burst, it will be on the brink of warping the barrel, but that's what happens when you fire well over 100 rounds per second <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, multiple barrels/chambers will give a lower frequency of jams and firing errors, there is no doubt there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> but like I said, the heat is the main factor right now.
[edit]
BTW: does anyone have any good information on "rail-guns" ? They're a very real weapon; not quite at the speed-of-light that video games project them, but they can fire a projectile (with current technology) up to 6x faster than a chemical propellant. More speed = more energy = less mass required to do the same job. It's the theory of relativity <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
To answer Marik, caseless ammo hasn't become standard because it uses a special compound that H&K developed themselves. It's most likely patented by H&K (although that patent would be running out probably around now) and is much more expensive to produce than say cordite. A box of 100 9mm bullets costs me $15 with membership to a gun-range, and that is not the cheapest they can be had at too. So it was too expensive. Another thing. Note the bullets we use for the m16-a1 etc. 5.56 NATO rounds. They're standardized so all our allies can use our bullets and vice versa. Even the clips are compatible on many assault rifles. So there's that issue as well. Lastly, there were no takers for this gun; it was too advanced and too expensive, and without active war going on at the time we didn't want to spend even more money on it. It was the g11 in germany who had special forces use it, and we had special forces use it under some lame name like "Advanced Combat Rifle".
To greyfox, since the LMG is based off the sten gun, you're on the right track. Should be a relatively simple procedure, post up a picture of it when you're done!
To Davis, yes a revolver fires faster than an automatic. Always thought that was interesting. It takes less time to drop the hammer of a revolver than for the entire slide of an automatic to chamber the next round. Revolvers can jam, but it's very infrequent and the main point is that you can just fire the next round in your chamber; automatics get all jammed up. Davis you actually missed the main point about caseless ammo, and why H&K developed it; they wanted an INCREDIBLY accurate gun. A gun so accurate, that the effects of recoil and muzzle flash would not be noticed until after the third bullet left the barrel. To do that they had to develop a gun with an incredibly high cyclic rate something like 2200 rounds per minute, almost 40 rounds per second. Firing it in 3 shot bursts increased accuracy by 50% and allowed for multiple hits with one burst. Other advantages to caseless ammo include making the gun lighter and reducing the size of the bullet a la no brass casing. The russians have a really sweet, very new assault rifle that fires a bullet that splits into a 3 sabots that increases accuracy by 100%, very cool but they don't have enough money to really manufacture it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah but if you set the M16 to burst-fire (3 round on the M16A2; AK47's have 2, 3, and some other numbered bursts...though that's a different ball game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) it fires those three rounds in very quick succession. If you time your trigger right, you can fire as fast as the old automatic M16A1 with burst fire, and not jam your weapon................big <b>IF</b>...heh)
And with a standard infantryman's weapon, a burst-fire is their most likely chance to score a hit. Putting several rounds down range in quick succession limits recoil and allows for a small mass of fire to hit a small area. Single shots are still good, but it requires a greater degree of accuracy to be as effective, that's why people trained in sniping have the bolt-action or semi-auto-only weapons <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hrm...there must be a different "Metal Storm" that you're talking about.
I spoke of something with my cousin, who is a Captain in the US Army. He devised an idea for something called "Metal Storm" which was basically a land-based mobile gun platform consisting of several different types of weapons. Without getting into specifics, it would be a huge advantage on any battlefield, and I'm sure it would have major psychological effects on enemy soldiers as well as physical.
That's the only "Metal Storm" I've gotten wind of...care to specify on what you're speaking of?
bigger, better, faster, deadlier.
And for those of you who wonder how, they've replaced the firing pin with an electronic equivilent. Instead of a pin jamming into a blasting cap, it's an electric charge that sets off the propellant. I don't know the specifics, and they probably haven't been released to keep duplication from happening. XD
The information I've read on railguns and coilguns (same principal except it uses coils of electromagnets instead of rails of them, allowing for a shorter barrel) suggested that they'd probably be used for transporting objects (eg launching things into orbit) rather than as weapons. I think you'd need something like a BattleMech or a tank to mount a gauss gun on properly, anyway. Not really sidearm level technology <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways, the basic principle of a gauss gun, railgun, coilgun (and we're not talking railguns from the movie Eraser <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) is that you can propel a metal projectile extremely fast using a series of electormagnets timed to activate and deactivate very fast and in precise order (in fact, for a coilgun you need electronic switches of the same grade you'd use to make nukes). The idea is that the magnets just in front of the projectile activate, and it's timed so that as the projectile moves forward down the barrel\rails they shut off and the next set activate, pulling it further along. The whole process happens very fast, and the projectile comes out the end very fast too. As far as I know, we can't quite get stuff into orbit with this technology just yet.
By the way, I think "the Battle of Tungsten Hill" in the NS backstory involved a railgun used to transport stuff.
I've also heard speeds in excess of 100 kmp/s. Which makes it just about as fast as the speed of light for anyone on the recieving end. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And for those of you who wonder how, they've replaced the firing pin with an electronic equivilent. Instead of a pin jamming into a blasting cap, it's an electric charge that sets off the propellant. I don't know the specifics, and they probably haven't been released to keep duplication from happening. XD <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was quite big news a few years ago in britain. Watched a programe on TV about it. The thing is about the size of Couch tho. Although the they are developing rifle versions of it for the future.
BTW it uses electronic "Pulses" so does that qualify as a pulse rifle when they build them?
Popular mech
Sometime in 95-96
Rail tank. Mach 87. Used a turbine engine to recharge it's battery. Frankly the scariest design I've ever seen, and the US had the plans. Just no NEED for one.
Am I the only one here that thinks the G11 is ugly as sin? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Am I the only one here that thinks the G11 is ugly as sin? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even worse with bayonet attached! Wouldn't like to be within 800 metres of one tho!
BTW there is a URL for that austrailian company developing metal storm: <a href='http://www.metalstorm.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.metalstorm.com/</a>
Just a little FYI - The A10 Warthog's nose gun generates as much thrust (when firing at full speed) as the actual engines that fly the thing. Yep, that means that when you fire enough rounds the aircraft will come to a complete stop.
I've also heard speeds in excess of 100 kmp/s. Which makes it just about as fast as the speed of light for anyone on the recieving end. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not even close.
Multiply that speed by about 3 thousand.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact a man has the world record for firing 7 shots (out of a 7 round revover) in 1 second.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The FN P90 SMG is capable of firing an entire 50 round magazine at 900 Rounds per Min.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
900rounds/60 seconds = 15 rounds / second
15 > 7
Perhaps you meant automatic pistols
these ideas are amazing
The explenation for1million rounds per min it b/c it uses multiple barels
basic consept was taken from the way an inkjet printer works (so if you understand that you are in good shape)
so you have multiple barels, be they 4 mounted on a pistol grip, or it looks like nearly 100 in a box like thing it still works the same
the barels contain both the bullets and the propelent stacked up
b= bullet P = propelent
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it uses some VERY interesting ideas and can get hideous RoF.
The cobination of doing this ALL lectronicly alsom meens that you can do some very precise things with it
The example they give is mounting a few of these facing down on a jet. You program in where the targets are and how you wana hit em. Then you simply fly over them. If your course is off it will hold its fire and inform you that you need to make another pass. Its very very interesting (they have uge fn vid if you are interested)
The other idea is that the barels can hold many diff payloads.
Alowing for Leathal, Nonleathal, cameras, grenades, mortars, or fire fighting chemicals.