Sensory "second"

ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Read before flame plz</div> Well as most of you know sensory chambers have approximately 1/3 the hp of a hive. However as some of you may not know is that a chamber being built by a gorge is almost invulnerable. A combination of these can prove a very effective stall for seieges now that sensory chambers are only 10 and that SC require spotters. Though Im not saying it is an alternative to movement its use applies to the following situation:
The marines have locked down 1 hives and are partially dependent on sieging a second hive to progress in the game (ie they cant push forward due to defenders and high DC count). The sensory chambers can be used to stall the seige and seige proof your original hive also. This stall can provide that crucial time needed to get mass fades. This then leaves you with 2 options regarding their seige camp either A, take it out immediately then rally their RTs (which leaves you without MCs and require a slightly less efficient playing style explained later) or B, allow them to seige the hive then quickly wipe them out with mass fades then rebuild the hive with the MC upgrade(in either case you will retain your sensory upgrades).

This is only useful in the designated 1 hive lockdown, 1 hive seige situation obviously but I find quite useful and rarely see executed.

Fighting Without Adrenalin: Will usually require the combatant to get into close quaters with its enemy due to the high energy use/cooldown of ranged weaponry. I personally have no problem with such a playing style aslong as there are many DCs scattered around the map, this WILL make you weaker (obviously) againt heavily armed units though against LA this is no problem for a fade due to a sweet cara blink combo. Due to your lack of adrenalin youll have to choose your combat location well preferably somewhere where you have the oppertunity to flee and heal yet also get in close enough to slice n dice. Fortunately at a 2hive evolution all 3 primary alien assault types have fast speed moves to get in close and attack. The lerk can do a steady combo of glide + flap which will get them in at a fairly high speed(approx 1/3 energy bar cost), the fades of course have blink(approximately 1/2 energy cost) and the skulks have leap (approximately 2/3 energy cost) (note: distance approximately one side of viaduct hive corridor to the other). No adrenalin makes use of special abilities such as umbra and projectile weaponry difficult; for umbra the only option for use is to suicide blink a fade onto the approaching army quickly followed by a gliding lerk who then umbras the group whilst the rest of the force piles on. Only use projectiles to take down flyers (which shouldnt be too hard if you can aim rougly 4 acid rockets or 60 ish spines).

Using Sensory: Ok Im not gonna even pretend this is useful at a 2hive stage game however here are the general basics of sensory, The chambers are great siege-stallers, you get cloak(which is damn near useless explained further down), they automatically parasite anything that touches it.
Using Cloak: Cloak is useful IF the opposition doesnt have an observatory (as scanner sweep breaks the cloak and also the obs perimeter is anti cloak), the effects of MT on cloak are by-the-by as its either close quarters where the marine is dazed and doesnt see you cloak or you are already cloaked waiting. If the comm doesnt sweep most areas then cloak is a good distance breaker. I personally do not like cloak but can be fun against bad players now and then.
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Comments

  • PugsleyPugsley Join Date: 2002-07-03 Member: 876Members
    So what your saying is that sensory is damn near useless except its oddly tough.................

    Movement plz.
  • VashVash Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8333Members
    After reading all that all I have to say is....

    Sensory is still useless. Cloaking? As soon as they get MT, useless. Standing in a place where you think marines MIGHT be coming by doesnt help out much either. Advanced Hivesight = Super raising of gamma. Not very useful. Scent of Fear is FUN, but only useful when your looking for that one last retarded marine that ran off and hasn't realized his entire team is dead. Sensory just doesn't have a purpose.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    Technically its not using sensory at all
  • WheezerWheezer Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3926Members, Constellation
    I believe you can't have 3 upgrades with only 2 hives. If you already have 2 different upgrade chambers when the 2nd hive is built it assigns the "free" chamber to the hive (as of 1.04)

    not 100% sure, but almost
  • w00tehw00teh Join Date: 2003-01-13 Member: 12255Members
    edited March 2003
    The only thing that could make sensory any more useful as cannon fodder is that it costs 10 res, versus 14 for the other chambers. I really don't see how saving the 4 res can be a benefit, considering that your team is stuck with pretty well useless upgrades now (because the marines probably have MT, and as somebody above said, MT + cloak = MT, and the other sensory upgrades are more convenient than useful). The upgrades you get with movement could probably let the aliens take the siege down faster, and waste less chambers and effectively cost less res. if it was properly done.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    its not for the cloak its for the fact that a sensory chamber has 2200 hp and others have 1500 hp, its a stall to get fades to then mop up after the hive is taken down and then put back up again for movement.
  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
    soltuion: Put up more seiges!
  • Error404Error404 Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9353Members
    I'd rather have Movement for adrenaline, then evolve to Lerk, swoop in to the nest of seiges, umbra then begin biting. This has always been successful. Two or three lerks doing this can quickly take out their setup quickly.
  • aAA1aAA1 Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9292Members
    Sensories are the BEST chamber to start with ...
    if your team knows what it's doing.

    Dont even START to flame me on this, becuase my team has hardly EVER lost a match when we start with sensories first, however we've noticed that it works ALOT better on some levels, and others you shouldnt even attempt it. Eclipse for example, is one of best maps around for cloaking ( as a first chamber, not a second ). Reasons ?
    a) they're cheaper than every other one ...
    b) They give advanced warning to anyone aproaching the place they're built - so build them in your hive! Then you have an alarm system
    c) CLOAKING! Drop on unsuspecting marines heads, Have 5 / 6 skulks waiting in ambush for a herd of marines. If your team lies in ambush isntead of charging on in like a bunch of silly bulls, then you will be very successful with this...
    we've found that for a 2nd chamber, it really depends on the situation of the game...

    However, you should realy only get sensories if you can confirm 100% that you'll have a 2nd hive soon . . . with marine upgrades, you'll be in trouble with just sensories ...

    Its nice though, to have cloaking and silence ... They work really well hand in hand ( and even better those two with regen )...
    however I've gone off-topic ...

    The reason you have the sensories first, is the marines should never get a CHANCE to get sieges up ... you're always lying in wait, hovering next to them while they walk over to build that res tower, or sit on top of an unbuilt phase or armoury, and then when they come to build it bite their faces! I mean, what could be a better plan !?

    I honestly dont understand why it gets flamed so much, I guess because people arnt that paitient ... and they just want to charge in and spill some blood ...

    sigh ...
    people <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->.
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Well, I think we all would like some other way than DMS to be equally viable.

    A pity none is.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Error404:+Mar 16 2003, 07:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Error404: @ Mar 16 2003, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd rather have Movement for adrenaline, then evolve to Lerk, swoop in to the nest of seiges, umbra then begin biting. This has always been successful. Two or three lerks doing this can quickly take out their setup quickly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    you wont have umbra in the time it takes to evlove the upg one assumes, its a stall ffs. You also get movement afterwards but its a stall to ram 5+ fades down the marines throats assuming a tech/siege method so that they dont have HA.
  • TorgoTorgo Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11626Members
    a|A, you should choose your words carefully. Trust me, as a seasoned, "try other chamber first" veteran, this is a losing battle to convince other people to do. So, congrats, use your own way of doing things and have fun, but convincing others to do so is a waste of time, right monkey?
  • Extra_Surly_ChickenExtra_Surly_Chicken Join Date: 2003-03-12 Member: 14425Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Actually, some people find it difficult to play skulk without carapace, but ambushing marines as they try to expand is far better than charging their start area and costing them a few secs reload. Ambushing also saps their resources, and makes them plenty mad <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TeoHTeoH Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11640Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--a|A+Mar 16 2003, 08:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a|A @ Mar 16 2003, 08:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sensories are the BEST chamber to start with ...
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're young - don't worry, there is still time to learn better.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    a chamber being built by a gorge is almost invulnerable.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, but unfortunately the gorge isnt. Building a chamber infront of a siege is almost guarunteed to make your gorge go boom, even if the chamber survives. Yes the sensories are much sturdier than other upgrade chambers, but offence chambers have plenty of health, can be built faster, shoot nearby marines and don't take up an upgrade slot. Also correct me if i'm wrong, but recent patch changes have altered the behaviour of upgrades with regards to killed hives. I'm pretty sure you can't switch to movement when your sens hive dies.
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    I played a few games this weekend with sensory first and it was so much fun! Yea carapace would have been a “safer” choice but the rush from being cloaked in the middle of a hall, watching the marines walk RIGHT PAST YOU, only to have you bite them in the ****! Let me tell you, I have never seen such panicky and cautious marines before. Once we had cloaking, the marines never got very far from their base. At first their comm said “LOL Sens first, we win” but he wasn’t laughing long as his marines failed time after time to even get to reactor room on tanith due to all the cloaked ambushing skulks. To make matters worse we got movement next, now not only couldn’t they see us but when they did our celerity kept them from shooting us. All in all, a very fun experience.
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    I personally don't care about flaming, but sensory is uber cool, however "the enemy approaches!" is somewhat annoying, however sensory does have a cr@pload of life, and they are usefull as something to stop the marines from tramping around, and the other thing is the marines can't knife them unless they want a parasite, cloaking comes in handy, one time I was evolving to fade, so naturally I was cloaked, and then a marine popped his head into the vent I was in, looked around for a few seconds, and then announced the rest of the marines (lan party) that they were clear, and a few seconds later I took out there seige nest, it was good times

    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    OMG that "The enemy approaches" is soo annoying. I was in a lan game alone, placed a sens and heard it over and over and over, what good is it?
  • CrisqoCrisqo Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11625Members
    To tell you the truth, it's not. That part of sensory chambers is a handicap, but everything else is good about it. Hopefully they will make the marines appear on the hud when they get in range of sensory in 1.1.
  • PixieHacKlericPixieHacKleric Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11961Members
    I played an interesting game a few days ago... I joined partway through to find that as an alien we had two hives with defense and sensory chambers... Well, as I showed up the marines were just getting ready to jetpack rush one of the hives... so as a skulk I sat ontop of the hive cloaked... jetpacker showed up, started pumping bullets into the hive... and I munched him to little bits before he even could see i uncloaked. After repeating this with the second marine I rushed their base... well, all they had were a bunch of mines in base... so I quick jumped around and munched their observatory while the marines were out trying to siege a hive. Well, after getting the observatory I hid for a second as a few marines came back to base to get outfitted... well, sure enough the comm dropped jetpacks, and HMG's... and I became uncloaked and munched two more. Another marine came in with his LMG and tried shooting all over.. but I was cloaked again. I ended up killing 6 marines in their base as well as taking out a large portion of their structures before I got a grenade launcher in the face... if I would have had more time, you can bet that I would have been back in there goin gorg and building a lot of OC. =)

    Point of story: Sensory may not be standard, but they can be a hell of a lot of fun!

    -PixieHacKleric a.k.a PrincessLeia
  • V_MANV_MAN V-MAN Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6217Members, Constellation
    edited March 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--a|A+Mar 16 2003, 01:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a|A @ Mar 16 2003, 01:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sensories are the BEST chamber to start with ...
    if your team knows what it's doing.

    Dont even START to flame me on this, becuase my team has hardly EVER lost a match when we start with sensories first, however we've noticed that it works ALOT better on some levels, and others you shouldnt even attempt it.  Eclipse for example, is one of best maps around for cloaking ( as a first chamber, not a second ).  Reasons ?
    a) they're cheaper than every other one ...
    b) They give advanced warning to anyone aproaching the place they're built - so build them in your hive! Then you have an alarm system
    c) CLOAKING! Drop on unsuspecting marines heads, Have 5 / 6 skulks waiting in ambush for a herd of marines.  If your team lies in ambush isntead of charging on in like a bunch of silly bulls, then you will be very successful with this...
    we've found that for a 2nd chamber, it really depends on the situation of the game...

    However, you should realy only get sensories if you can confirm 100% that you'll have a 2nd hive soon . . . with marine upgrades, you'll be in trouble with just sensories ...

    Its nice though, to have cloaking and silence ... They work really well hand in hand ( and even better those two with regen )...
    however I've gone off-topic ...

    The reason you have the sensories first, is the marines should never get a CHANCE to get sieges up ... you're always lying in wait, hovering next to them while they walk over to build that res tower, or sit on top of an unbuilt phase or armoury, and then when they come to build it bite their faces! I mean, what could be a better plan !?

    I honestly dont understand why it gets flamed so much, I guess because people arnt that paitient ... and they just want to charge in and spill some blood ...

    sigh ...
    people <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Listen to this person <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Black_Ops_Lerk_MasterBlack_Ops_Lerk_Master Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14363Banned
    Personally, i'd love to do this but the pub server standard DC,MC,SC is really stuck on peoples minds, i tried the ol' sensory first what they cant see they cant shoot strategy but people just called me a noob and forced me to get off gorge (i went AFK for 5 minutes, when i came back the other gorge had covered me in offence chambers and i couldnt get out) <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->

    The fact is, most skulk/lerk people on pubs really suck at dodging so get owned if they dont have level 3 cara.

    This dont work on bast near the marine spawn, when i got on that hive my cloacking made me EASIER to find cus it just went on but went off (a bug from the rotating lift me thinks)

    But i got to admit, cara3 (sounds better than cara level 3) does make it easier at the start, its like the marine equivalent of level 3 armor! except a fraction of the price! It gives great protection for those turtlers and their turret farms.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    you will always get owned without cara if the marine can even partially aim
  • ElricElric Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8448Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Mar 17 2003, 11:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Mar 17 2003, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To tell you the truth, it's not. That part of sensory chambers is a handicap, but everything else is good about it. Hopefully they will make the marines appear on the hud when they get in range of sensory in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They do appear, please try it before making assumptions. Buildings don't, perhaps you put it near an rt or such.
  • sejsej Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12488Members
    What hes saying is -

    If the second hive has just grown, but the marines are about to siege....

    And you dont have res for fades..

    And the marines have weapon upgrades....

    The only thing which will save the 2nd hive might be sensory cannons for cannon fodder - whilst the skulks sit and wait for resources to fade.

    Id rather have 2 hives with a sensory than no hives at all.
  • TorgoTorgo Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11626Members
    edited March 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Elric+Mar 19 2003, 02:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Elric @ Mar 19 2003, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Mar 17 2003, 11:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Mar 17 2003, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To tell you the truth, it's not. That part of sensory chambers is a handicap, but everything else is good about it.  Hopefully they will make the marines appear on the hud when they get in range of sensory in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They do appear, please try it before making assumptions. Buildings don't, perhaps you put it near an rt or such. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, I don't think they appear when near a sensory chamber unless they try to rape it and get parasited, thus rendering them a yellow blob. I think Crisqo means that he wants to see a more "ranged" area around the sensory chamber that detects marines when they walk by as opposed to just a parasite if you stand directly on top of it. Forgive me if I'm wrong...
  • CrisqoCrisqo Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11625Members
    edited March 2003
    Exactly....what was Elric thinking?

    --Edit--

    Maybe he is a 1.1 beta tester guy and thats what sensory chambers do? (hopefully)
  • ElricElric Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8448Members
    edited March 2003
    Or maybe I've tested and played with them in 1.03 and 1.04 and actually seen what they do? While any unparasited marine is within the radius of a sensory chamber, they appear on hive sight. The sound warning detection is also the same radius. The effect goes through walls just as easily as defense chambers' healing capability. When they leave the radius (assuming they aren't parasited), they fall off of hive sight. This used to not work on Linux servers until they fixed motion tracking which also fixed the sensories. The only way to get the sound warning and not having any blips appear is to have a sensory chamber activated by buildings. Buildings will trip the sound warning but not show up on hive sight. That should probably be looked at either by removing the sound warning for buildings or displaying them on hivesight.

    The parasite ability of the sensory chamber when someone runs into it is an entirely different (and almost never activated) effect of sensory chambers.

    Honestly, before you go about insulting, you might actually want to TEST THEM! Just a wild thought. Whether you think that ability is not helpful is arguable, arguing that the ability doesn't work is just false. When you catch yourself saying "I think this is what it does", that's probably a clue that you should verify it first <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->.
  • CrisqoCrisqo Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11625Members
    edited March 2003
    Well maybe you play on a modded server or something? On the server I play on all sensory does is scream "The enemy approaches!" and thats it, no blob or anything.

    To get back on topic...Sensory is a great chamber and I encourage people to try it out sometime...It's fun.
  • teh_Lurvteh_Lurv Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13105Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Wheezer+Mar 15 2003, 09:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheezer @ Mar 15 2003, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I believe you can't have 3 upgrades with only 2 hives. If you already have 2 different upgrade chambers when the 2nd hive is built it assigns the "free" chamber to the hive (as of 1.04)

    not 100% sure, but almost <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I played a game recently on caged in which we got all three chambers with only "two" hives. What happens is that each chamber is assigned to a hive in a particular location. So if you have two hives and one dies, as long as you still have chamber put down that are tied to that particular hive, you can get the third chamber if you build a new second hive at the other location.
  • ElricElric Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8448Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Mar 19 2003, 06:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Mar 19 2003, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well maybe you play on a modded server or something? On the server I play on all sensory does is scream "The enemy approaches!" and thats it, no blob or anything.

    To get back on topic...Sensory is a great chamber and I encourage people to try it out sometime...It's fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Nope, unmodded and I've tried it in lan as well. It *is* possible modded servers could screw it up, I have no idea.
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