<!--QuoteBegin--Duff-Man+Mar 28 2003, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duff-Man @ Mar 28 2003, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heh, there are a lot less cheaters than you think, actually. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've heard of you, you use the Duffy h4x now don't you? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Man BlueElite, you have alot of rage bottled up inside you. You need to take a few deep breaths. First of all, F4ing in certain situations I think is tolerable, such as a two hive lockdown being dragged out to the last second, in which cases I give the marines a warning "You have 10 minutes to kill us then I F4. When I'm comm, I do spam medkits, its not an exploit nor is it a cheat. The developers obviosly put it in for a reason, and if they didn't want it, they could take it out very easily. Maybe in 1.1? I havn't met one comm that doesn't spam medpacks (besides you of course) Finally I try to offer advice and critisism to the comm not only to improve our chances in the game but to also improve his commanding. Guess I'm the lowest scum in the universe eh?
Its BlueTorpeedo... you meant my post right... well anyway...
the reasone I think that spamming medkits is an exploit is that Theoretically, and often in practice, a lone 'Rine or more can effectively be "invincible" so long as the comm can keep the medkits falling. That seems lame and doesn't feel like it was intented by the team (although, thats speculation on my part). Ive played enough games where 2 guys and a comm with medkit hotkeyed and spamming take out muiltiple hives while the whole alien team keeps attacking and getting nowhere. lame as that is, there are other reasons:
1) while the comm babys those few rines, the rest get neglected becasue the comm has to spend all their time dropp 10 trillion medkits, of which the rines will use mybe 3-5 of them.
2) all the excess medkits will be left on the ground to skyrocket the entity count on the map, increasing lag and lowering peoples FPS.
3) Its a waste of res to spawn so many. Spawn what you need. Spend the rest of your res on the whole team.
Usually it isnt "THAT" bad, but ive had servers(others servers BTW) crash on me because of medkit spawning. Its one of the few things consistent with the generally rare server crash in my humble NS experiance.
desceptincy of rule #5: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5) Players who TELL the comm what to do. As if he doesnt already know (usually). This includes punks who ask the comm for stuff the team cant afford or who try to eject the comm because they comm wont serve him exclusivly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can see i emphsized TELL. In doing so I hoped to convey the idea that the player in question is trying to force or haggle the comm to do stuff. Not asking or suggesting.
and about you being the lowest scum in the universe.....
I guess only you would know for sure, I wouldnt know unless we saw each other online. Ill be looking for you. I hope my skills dont disapoint. Hehe. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
A bit of a contradiction there. You don't like medkit spamming because it is an exploit that makes marines "invulnerable". Then you say it's a waste of res and hurts the marine team since the COM can't do anything else.
It's a valid thing to do, Aliens have loads of simmilar things, they can stand next to D-chambers or have a gorge spam them with healspray (or loads of gorges spamming EVERYONE with healspray, my fav).
The entities won't cause lag since they only last 30 seconds, if not used. Now web on the other hand lasts until someone sets it off or it is welded/grenaded, that causes lag. As does turrets. And chambers. I doubt you want any of them gone.
Either you have some other argument against Medkit spamming that you aren't telling us or it is purely emotional, because your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.
Or (seems likely) you just like getting upset about things in general. Totally ok, many people are like that.
In the Quake community, if you pull off an incredible feat of skill and come out ontop against the odds, people on a public server will congratulate you. In the HL community, you get kick/banned.... Playing in this environment is so incredibly annoying. Some of the suggestions in this thread relating to the signs of a 'cheater' (Managing to track someone while flying with a jetpack requires an aimbot?) are so completely pathetic. I'm almost glad the link to the "jph4x" demo is a 404, watching it would probably have caused me to die laughing.
The complaints about medpacks are simple - When a skulk goes up against a marine it becomes a personal duel, the skulk gains satisfaction from winning this duel and seeing his impact on the game. When a 3rd party (The commander) intervenes and saves the marine with a carpet of medpacks, in the mind of the skulk the marine has "won". Due to a feature the skulk does not feel was fair in his little isolated duelling scenario. The skulk completely ignores the overall effect of dropping 20 res of medpacks to save a single LA/LMG, because the skulk does not see the situation as a victory.
when i think of the word cheating i think of not playing the game 'fair', this means exploiting , hacking and other stuff like that alienmarines thingy in 1.3. with the word laming, i think of camping and and not being a good winner(an yeeh or something like that is tolerable but when you start saying that your opponent are noobs (the worst insult for me) you've crossed the line). cheaters single handed can't ruin a game often, but when there's a whole batch of 'em, i suppose you'll be leaving the server soon. scripting can be considered also some kind of cheat as it does all the work for you, and many players come up with the argument that it is not a cheat (altough a few messages are not bad if you don't have voicecomm). many use the argument that cheating are codes of te game itself that give you god mode,but the word cheating actually means not playing fair. and yes the NS communiy thinks that everyone is a cheater who does a miracle and we also throw newbies out in the rain or use 'em as meatshields.
Hmm. I´m pretty sure there are alot more cheaters than you guys think. More than half the CS players I have met openly say they cheat. But they don´t call themselfes cheaters. Why? The most common excuse they had was "I only cheat in pubs, and only for fun. Never in a clangame." Hence they don´t consider themselfes cheaters.
Another reason you don´t notice cheaters is that they rarely use aimbots these days. Wallhacks? Sure. Recoilstoppers? Why not(yes I know, no or little recoil in NS but I´m just trying to make a point). And so on. just because someone doesn´t own you it doesn´t mean he is not cheating in some way. Then again. As long as they don´t use aimbots I can live with an occasional cheater on a NS server.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lightning Blue+Apr 1 2003, 12:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Apr 1 2003, 12:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Duff-Man+Mar 28 2003, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duff-Man @ Mar 28 2003, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heh, there are a lot less cheaters than you think, actually. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've heard of you, you use the Duffy h4x now don't you? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG NOE I R NOT HAQS
ooh a challenge. /Me likes. You just got added to my buddies list in ASE, other wise known as the "people i'm about to pwn list" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I'll look out for you too.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Mar 29 2003, 11:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Mar 29 2003, 11:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This was in CS 6.6 or something. He didn't have a "tag" at the time, but last time I was him he was SK|Potti, and considering that CPL is played on LAN I am pretty sure he wasn't cheating <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL Potti is one of the highest ranking CS Players out there ;P I bet he gets accused a LOT... Yes there's lots of cheaters out there and most hack utilities work for any mod of HL at least partially, I started using a little hack thing on my cs a few days ago because it's funny to be locked on people and get cussed at by the E-Thugs who swear they'll hunt you down and beat you to death. =P I quit cs so I played with that a few games then retired from cs and dod and I didn't go anywhere but a couple of newbie servers anyway. People hack, but NS makes it hard to detect since there's no 1st person spec of your team.. anyone know if that's changing in 1.1?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5) The surest way to see if someone is cheating, is to turn on your cheats yourself. Wallhack will reveal many wonders. Which is why I know for a fact that 'Captain Kirk' (in response to someone's comment) cheats. I'm not so sure if he aimbots, but he definitely wallhacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Captain Kirk doesn't cheat. He does have really good headphones and a nice sound card. It's called investing. You should try it...oh silly me, you're only investment is a free program that needs to be updated 24/7 to keep up with anti-cheats. Talk with him a bit <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> And just to show you how technically incompetant you are, you don't have to cheat to watch someone, you go into the little room that says "Spectator" and enter roam free mode.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9) a few shoutouts: 'merC' -- open your eyes and accept the fact that cheaters (not exploiters) are abound. or start cheating yourself. 'Twisted Master' -- stop asking for anti-cheat this and that, go learn how to program and code some stuff yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh-huh...
So more people should start cheating to make the game better? How is a game fun if you're not actually playing it again? You were one of those kids who took all the $500 bills in Monopoly weren't you? I was wondering where all that cash went... Or did you bring your own from your seperate game you bought just for that purpose? Nah, you're too cheap for that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Stop asking for anti-cheats? Oh, you mean, so you're haxoring program can catch up with the anti-cheat programs already out there? So your friends that sponser OGC don't have to work so hard? Phbbbbt hehehe. Why would I want to make a cheating program when I'm totally against it? Are you on crack? You're contradicting yourself every other sentence. For the record, I AM a programmer, that's what I do for a living, something you might have to do someday when you get out of middle school...if you can pass anything but gym class... Or do you "cheat" in that too? Drugs anyone? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
tis reminds me of a game,i once was on one of those 'weird server'(the kind where strange stuff happens) and asked the qeustion: i wonder who uses hacks here and immedialy someone says : WHO USES HACKS?i answered with: i haven't accused noone, but you reacted fast, thats a little suspicious. and then he left.
Honestly, I dunno why you think so many people cheat.
I've been an admin on Now We Donce for, eh, 3 months, maybe longer.
I've only caught one person I was absoutely sure was cheating, and that was last night. The only way I could tell he was using an aimbot was spectating him in locked chase mode after seeing his insanely robotic snap-aiming moves.
<!--QuoteBegin--psygnosis+Mar 27 2003, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (psygnosis @ Mar 27 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would love to see the scores for individual players gone and replaced with a tally of structures built, total resources gained, player percentage of aim etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is great! - % hits/attacks would really show up the cheats. Maybe deaths while reloading would be an interesting side stat. Aimbots dont help to much - mid reload. Building 'builds', hit point healed etc -for gorges. I have been gorge and done a lot of killing - when the marines find me. But mostly I get a 'we had a naff gorge but still won' message loads. Drives me mental. Only slightly worse is the gorge that attacks! Cheats - with some of the client side checks you can find all the 3rd party software - ok they change the names trying to defeat the system but adding another file to the list of programs to find is very very easy. Hopefully they will get detected and added to some central db where everyone can go poke fun at them - hopefully they registered there product and we know there names - Name and Shame em. Yes add a lamer list to the web site/forums.
Is it possible to have a hit%? that would be very interesting to show that, that definetly could cut down on the aimbots, except for the fact they can shoot a wall for 30 seconds to bring it down some. And as for wallhacks...
Comments
I've heard of you, you use the Duffy h4x now don't you? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the reasone I think that spamming medkits is an exploit is that Theoretically, and often in practice, a lone 'Rine or more can effectively be "invincible" so long as the comm can keep the medkits falling. That seems lame and doesn't feel like it was intented by the team (although, thats speculation on my part). Ive played enough games where 2 guys and a comm with medkit hotkeyed and spamming take out muiltiple hives while the whole alien team keeps attacking and getting nowhere. lame as that is, there are other reasons:
1) while the comm babys those few rines, the rest get neglected becasue the comm has to spend all their time dropp 10 trillion medkits, of which the rines will use mybe 3-5 of them.
2) all the excess medkits will be left on the ground to skyrocket the entity count on the map, increasing lag and lowering peoples FPS.
3) Its a waste of res to spawn so many. Spawn what you need. Spend the rest of your res on the whole team.
Usually it isnt "THAT" bad, but ive had servers(others servers BTW) crash on me because of medkit spawning. Its one of the few things consistent with the generally rare server crash in my humble NS experiance.
desceptincy of rule #5:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5) Players who TELL the comm what to do. As if he doesnt already know (usually). This includes punks who ask the comm for stuff the team cant afford or who try to eject the comm because they comm wont serve him exclusivly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can see i emphsized TELL. In doing so I hoped to convey the idea that the player in question is trying to force or haggle the comm to do stuff. Not asking or suggesting.
and about you being the lowest scum in the universe.....
I guess only you would know for sure, I wouldnt know unless we saw each other online. Ill be looking for you. I hope my skills dont disapoint. Hehe. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's a valid thing to do, Aliens have loads of simmilar things, they can stand next to D-chambers or have a gorge spam them with healspray (or loads of gorges spamming EVERYONE with healspray, my fav).
The entities won't cause lag since they only last 30 seconds, if not used. Now web on the other hand lasts until someone sets it off or it is welded/grenaded, that causes lag. As does turrets. And chambers. I doubt you want any of them gone.
Either you have some other argument against Medkit spamming that you aren't telling us or it is purely emotional, because your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.
Or (seems likely) you just like getting upset about things in general. Totally ok, many people are like that.
The complaints about medpacks are simple - When a skulk goes up against a marine it becomes a personal duel, the skulk gains satisfaction from winning this duel and seeing his impact on the game. When a 3rd party (The commander) intervenes and saves the marine with a carpet of medpacks, in the mind of the skulk the marine has "won". Due to a feature the skulk does not feel was fair in his little isolated duelling scenario. The skulk completely ignores the overall effect of dropping 20 res of medpacks to save a single LA/LMG, because the skulk does not see the situation as a victory.
Thus they come on the forums and whine....
with the word laming, i think of camping and and not being a good winner(an yeeh or something like that is tolerable but when you start saying that your opponent are noobs (the worst insult for me) you've crossed the line).
cheaters single handed can't ruin a game often, but when there's a whole batch of 'em, i suppose you'll be leaving the server soon. scripting can be considered also some kind of cheat as it does all the work for you, and many players come up with the argument that it is not a cheat (altough a few messages are not bad if you don't have voicecomm). many use the argument that cheating are codes of te game itself that give you god mode,but the word cheating actually means not playing fair. and yes the NS communiy thinks that everyone is a cheater who does a miracle and we also throw newbies out in the rain or use 'em as meatshields.
I´m pretty sure there are alot more cheaters than you guys think. More than half the CS players I have met openly say they cheat. But they don´t call themselfes cheaters. Why? The most common excuse they had was "I only cheat in pubs, and only for fun. Never in a clangame." Hence they don´t consider themselfes cheaters.
Another reason you don´t notice cheaters is that they rarely use aimbots these days. Wallhacks? Sure. Recoilstoppers? Why not(yes I know, no or little recoil in NS but I´m just trying to make a point). And so on.
just because someone doesn´t own you it doesn´t mean he is not cheating in some way.
Then again. As long as they don´t use aimbots I can live with an occasional cheater on a NS server.
Thanatos
I've heard of you, you use the Duffy h4x now don't you? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG NOE I R NOT HAQS
LOL Potti is one of the highest ranking CS Players out there ;P I bet he gets accused a LOT...
Yes there's lots of cheaters out there and most hack utilities work for any mod of HL at least partially, I started using a little hack thing on my cs a few days ago because it's funny to be locked on people and get cussed at by the E-Thugs who swear they'll hunt you down and beat you to death. =P I quit cs so I played with that a few games then retired from cs and dod and I didn't go anywhere but a couple of newbie servers anyway. People hack, but NS makes it hard to detect since there's no 1st person spec of your team.. anyone know if that's changing in 1.1?
Captain Kirk doesn't cheat. He does have really good headphones and a nice sound card. It's called investing. You should try it...oh silly me, you're only investment is a free program that needs to be updated 24/7 to keep up with anti-cheats. Talk with him a bit <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> And just to show you how technically incompetant you are, you don't have to cheat to watch someone, you go into the little room that says "Spectator" and enter roam free mode.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9) a few shoutouts: 'merC' -- open your eyes and accept the fact that cheaters (not exploiters) are abound. or start cheating yourself. 'Twisted Master' -- stop asking for anti-cheat this and that, go learn how to program and code some stuff yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh-huh...
So more people should start cheating to make the game better? How is a game fun if you're not actually playing it again? You were one of those kids who took all the $500 bills in Monopoly weren't you? I was wondering where all that cash went... Or did you bring your own from your seperate game you bought just for that purpose? Nah, you're too cheap for that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Stop asking for anti-cheats? Oh, you mean, so you're haxoring program can catch up with the anti-cheat programs already out there? So your friends that sponser OGC don't have to work so hard? Phbbbbt hehehe. Why would I want to make a cheating program when I'm totally against it? Are you on crack? You're contradicting yourself every other sentence. For the record, I AM a programmer, that's what I do for a living, something you might have to do someday when you get out of middle school...if you can pass anything but gym class... Or do you "cheat" in that too? Drugs anyone? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
and then he left.
I've been an admin on Now We Donce for, eh, 3 months, maybe longer.
I've only caught one person I was absoutely sure was cheating, and that was last night. The only way I could tell he was using an aimbot was spectating him in locked chase mode after seeing his insanely robotic snap-aiming moves.
This is great! - % hits/attacks would really show up the cheats. Maybe deaths while reloading would be an interesting side stat. Aimbots dont help to much - mid reload.
Building 'builds', hit point healed etc -for gorges. I have been gorge and done a lot of killing - when the marines find me. But mostly I get a 'we had a naff gorge but still won' message loads. Drives me mental. Only slightly worse is the gorge that attacks!
Cheats - with some of the client side checks you can find all the 3rd party software - ok they change the names trying to defeat the system but adding another file to the list of programs to find is very very easy.
Hopefully they will get detected and added to some central db where everyone can go poke fun at them - hopefully they registered there product and we know there names - Name and Shame em.
Yes add a lamer list to the web site/forums.
blah blah
If you can win easy, people will do it, it's human nature.