0 Hive Blight Death For Aliens...
AutumnTwilight
Join Date: 2002-08-27 Member: 1244Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-08-27 Member: 1244Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Is this remaining in 1.1?</div> I am referring to the current implementation where when the aliens have no hives up or currently building, they start taking damage.
I know it was implemented to prevent aliens hiding in vents to needlessly prolong the game, but it seems to prevent them from recovering from an early hive rush.
If the marines are rushed successfully at the beginning, they can usually relocate by dropping a CC somewhere for a lone scout to build, or, if they can see things are going badly, the Commander can send off most of the team to a location and relocate there. It may work, it may not, but the option is there.
For the aliens, if an early hive rush from the marines works, there is no chance for the aliens to abandon the hive and attempt to relocate and take advantage of the weakened marines (Since almost any early game rush weakens the marines' economy and defenses). Even if they had a gorge with 100 resources, unless he can get to the hive before he bleeds to death, it's all over.
I don't know what other solution could be used instead, but even just a 3 minute delay from when the last hive goes down to when the freeze damage starts would help give the aliens a chance to relocate.
Remember we're talking about early game relocations where there is a reasonable chance of success, not late game skulk vs HA assaults. Yes, llama players could use the 3 minutes to set up D chambers in a vent and hide, but they can actually do this now, since most players can tell when a hive is going down and quickly move to a vent and set up D chamber shop, if that is their goal.
Personally, I would like to see a new solution entirely, but I realize this may not be possible. Of course, having admins on the server would easily take care of the problem, but this isn't always possible either, sadly.
I posted a more in-depth analysis of this idea in Ziggy's post here:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=28010' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=28010</a>
Thanks,
Twilight
I know it was implemented to prevent aliens hiding in vents to needlessly prolong the game, but it seems to prevent them from recovering from an early hive rush.
If the marines are rushed successfully at the beginning, they can usually relocate by dropping a CC somewhere for a lone scout to build, or, if they can see things are going badly, the Commander can send off most of the team to a location and relocate there. It may work, it may not, but the option is there.
For the aliens, if an early hive rush from the marines works, there is no chance for the aliens to abandon the hive and attempt to relocate and take advantage of the weakened marines (Since almost any early game rush weakens the marines' economy and defenses). Even if they had a gorge with 100 resources, unless he can get to the hive before he bleeds to death, it's all over.
I don't know what other solution could be used instead, but even just a 3 minute delay from when the last hive goes down to when the freeze damage starts would help give the aliens a chance to relocate.
Remember we're talking about early game relocations where there is a reasonable chance of success, not late game skulk vs HA assaults. Yes, llama players could use the 3 minutes to set up D chambers in a vent and hide, but they can actually do this now, since most players can tell when a hive is going down and quickly move to a vent and set up D chamber shop, if that is their goal.
Personally, I would like to see a new solution entirely, but I realize this may not be possible. Of course, having admins on the server would easily take care of the problem, but this isn't always possible either, sadly.
I posted a more in-depth analysis of this idea in Ziggy's post here:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=28010' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=28010</a>
Thanks,
Twilight
Comments
You could make the marines start taking damage when the CC is gone to even it out, but I would prefer that neither side had it than both.
Twilight
hehe
Try ping or bing instead
And if something should be added for marines it should be when they have no IP and CC left
thats probably why he's asking...
must...control..urge...to...flame...
Actually, we do. Read more. Not that what we know has anything to do with this question, though (although that is a valid point in favor of the asking of this question).
Sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder, so to speak...
So, do we have any idea if Flayra is willing to discuss this or not? It's not a game breaker, of course, but it just keeps the game from being as fun as it could be.
Then again, with all of the sweeping changes that 1.1 will bring, perhaps Hive Blight (Ping/Bing/Belch/whatever...) will no longer fit in with things.
I just ask that it be reconsidered, as I imagine most things should and will be, for the release of 1.1
Thanks,
Twilight
As an off note, this sorta belongs in the suggestions forum doesn't it? But then again, the devs/Flayra don't look in there now do they? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Actually, if a hive is building at all, the 'blight' damage stops. If that hive is killed though, it will resume. As long as a hive is either active or building, the damage won't happen. :D
<b>Marines lose CC</b>
They can no longer fight the power of the bacteria (CC somehow fights the bacteria as part of uplinking to the nano-grid) and all Marines are put on hivesight as if they were parasited.
<b>Aliens lose Hive</b>
Without a Hive to block it, the bacteria cannot block the Nano-Grid's power and the Aliens show up on Marine Visor's (your HUD) through motion tracking elements, although the aliens don't have to be moving for them to show up in this scenario.
The result: No more hiding Aliens or Marines and both sides can possibly turn things around without a stupid (imo) countdown... seriously, I hate the countdown <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. That's my suggestion
and if you say that a building hive doesn't count as a hive, think about this, you only get POD when there isn't a hive, and when there is a hive building, no POD, therefore using the laws of reason, a building hive is considered a hive by the game itself due to lack of POD.
<b>Marines lose CC</b>
They can no longer fight the power of the bacteria (CC somehow fights the bacteria as part of uplinking to the nano-grid) and all Marines are put on hivesight as if they were parasited.
<b>Aliens lose Hive</b>
Without a Hive to block it, the bacteria cannot block the Nano-Grid's power and the Aliens show up on Marine Visor's (your HUD) through motion tracking elements, although the aliens don't have to be moving for them to show up in this scenario.
The result: No more hiding Aliens or Marines and both sides can possibly turn things around without a stupid (imo) countdown... seriously, I hate the countdown <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. That's my suggestion <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sheer genius.
sheer genius
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (neonfaktory @ Apr 2 2003, 09:27 PM)
I would like to see it removed. Here's my suggestion:
Marines lose CC
They can no longer fight the power of the bacteria (CC somehow fights the bacteria as part of uplinking to the nano-grid) and all Marines are put on hivesight as if they were parasited.
Aliens lose Hive
Without a Hive to block it, the bacteria cannot block the Nano-Grid's power and the Aliens show up on Marine Visor's (your HUD) through motion tracking elements, although the aliens don't have to be moving for them to show up in this scenario.
The result: No more hiding Aliens or Marines and both sides can possibly turn things around without a stupid (imo) countdown... seriously, I hate the countdown . That's my suggestion
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It truly is
I wonder what the devs and Charlie have to say 'bout this
Actually, if a hive is building at all, the 'blight' damage stops. If that hive is killed though, it will resume. As long as a hive is either active or building, the damage won't happen. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Twilight[ChBr]+Apr 2 2003, 01:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twilight[ChBr] @ Apr 2 2003, 01:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no hives up or currently building<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
makes sense to me. I mentioned the situation(edit: in the other thread) where this could be annoying but my english smells and Im tired.
Why?
Let's see... first, it's a dead giveaway at the moment. If the Marines kill a Hive and the ping starts, they KNOW they got it. If it stops, they KNOW that another hive is going up, somewhere, and will frantically sweep for it.
One of the greatest rushes up to v1.03 was scooting off and hiding as a Gorge, building RP up and sneaking a Hive into existence.. normally the Marines would take one Hive at the beginning, defend it very poorly, and the defenses would be taken down at some point during the course of the game, without the Marines catching on. Gorge could creep in and pop that one up, while the Marines were involved with hunting down 'the last of them'. To a point where they wouldn't notice that there were a lot more alive than should be, until their assault force got jacked by a massed skulk rush.
Similar with the 'reveal-all'... how's that Gorge supposed to hide and get one of the Hives up, if the Marines can see him clear as day?
Remember. ANY Alien with the resources can go Gorge, and put up a Hive. They ALWAYS have a chance at a comeback. If the Marines' CC is destroyed, they CANNOT build, tech up, or drop any upgrades. If anything, the Marines should have the ping-of-death.
Oh.. and as to the all-view motion tracking? There already is one. It's called <span style='color:yellow'>SENSOR SWEEP</span>. The PoD is really only in there to cover for idiot Comms who don't know how to run the friggin' CC. Anyplace an Alien can go and hide, a Marine with a JP can get to.
Much better solution to the current dilema, and it goes both ways.
Maybe a timer on it though. So its not instant.
I am referring to the current implementation where when the aliens have no hives up or currently building, they start taking damage.
Actually, if a hive is building at all, the 'blight' damage stops. If that hive is killed though, it will resume. As long as a hive is either active or building, the damage won't happen. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Cyanide, that's what I meant. Sorry if I phrased it poorly, but I was saying if there are no hives up, or hives currently building, then the damage happens. I should've used parentheses I guess...
Twilight
sheer genius
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (neonfaktory @ Apr 2 2003, 09:27 PM)
I would like to see it removed. Here's my suggestion:
Marines lose CC
They can no longer fight the power of the bacteria (CC somehow fights the bacteria as part of uplinking to the nano-grid) and all Marines are put on hivesight as if they were parasited.
Aliens lose Hive
Without a Hive to block it, the bacteria cannot block the Nano-Grid's power and the Aliens show up on Marine Visor's (your HUD) through motion tracking elements, although the aliens don't have to be moving for them to show up in this scenario.
The result: No more hiding Aliens or Marines and both sides can possibly turn things around without a stupid (imo) countdown... seriously, I hate the countdown . That's my suggestion
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It truly is
I wonder what the devs and Charlie have to say 'bout this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just want to add another "hey that's a
good idea" voice, even if it is a lurker's voice.
'Cause hey, I think it's a good idea. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The ping sucks
I know that 1.1 is still in the works, and that things might change. I'm not asking for a guarantee on it being removed, but rather that removing it/altering it is at least being considered. Flayra? Anyone?
Thanks,
Twilight
Come here boy !
Flaaayraaa !
I think one of the extremely cool things about NS is that each side is not identical, that the gameplay, strategy, tactics, etc varies greatly between the two sides. I understand that you guys are pretty passionate about the game and that you perceive this as an improvement but I think you would find that by improving the game in this way it ceases being the very thing you are so passionate about.
Just my two cents <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This isen't balancing
hehe
It's removing annoyment
annoyance.
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im not sure if it is this way for balance, but marines can easily win the game in the first 10 if not 5 minutes due to their excessive resource pool at the beginning of a game.
gotta go, next class starts in a few
As said above, I don't percieve this as a balancing issue, so much as an annoyance. I feel it doesn't prevent what it is meant to prevent very well, makes the game less fun. Overall, it does more harm than good. In my opinion, of course, but then again, most others seem to share this view point.
I suppose if we can't get any word on it, then we'll just have to wait and see. As I said before, it's not a game breaker, just a pain oftentimes...
Twilight