Bunny Hopping Is Not Necessary....
<div class="IPBDescription">to get the secrets in Quake</div> i have to make a new post because the other was closed before i could reply.
somebody said bunny hopping is part of the game because it was intentionally programmed because it was how you got all the secrets.
dizzy.souls said this in the thread called "about bunnyhop...":
"BH is a part of the Quake engine, how else would u get thse insane secrets and stuff, if u dont know BH u dont know Quake (ok im exjagurating a bit < if thats a word )"
this is wrong because i found all the secrets and all the secret levels and all the secrets in those secret levels and i didn't know about bunny hopping. if you used bunny hopping to get those secrets then you cheated and you did the secret wrong. there were some you could get by using rocket jumping but i didn't use rocket jumping. by the way, i don't really think rocket jumping is an exploit because i think grenade jumping was actually invented by id software because i think there was 1 secret that could only be done by grenade jumping. however they gave you an invincibility power-up nearby and there was a notch cut out in the floor for the grenade to get stuck in and when you stood over it you didn't need to jump to get propelled upward.
bunny hopping is an exploit. if players do something that the programmers didn't think of to get an advantage and it defies logic then it is an exploit.
somebody said bunny hopping is part of the game because it was intentionally programmed because it was how you got all the secrets.
dizzy.souls said this in the thread called "about bunnyhop...":
"BH is a part of the Quake engine, how else would u get thse insane secrets and stuff, if u dont know BH u dont know Quake (ok im exjagurating a bit < if thats a word )"
this is wrong because i found all the secrets and all the secret levels and all the secrets in those secret levels and i didn't know about bunny hopping. if you used bunny hopping to get those secrets then you cheated and you did the secret wrong. there were some you could get by using rocket jumping but i didn't use rocket jumping. by the way, i don't really think rocket jumping is an exploit because i think grenade jumping was actually invented by id software because i think there was 1 secret that could only be done by grenade jumping. however they gave you an invincibility power-up nearby and there was a notch cut out in the floor for the grenade to get stuck in and when you stood over it you didn't need to jump to get propelled upward.
bunny hopping is an exploit. if players do something that the programmers didn't think of to get an advantage and it defies logic then it is an exploit.
Comments
And think about it, if you have an alien life form clawing your feet, would you jump repeatedly?
No? Because I wouldn't be able to aim at the alien, and it would be better just to throw myself to the side, rather than stomping in a place. PLUS, I wouldn't need to, because I would have teammates by my side helping me shoot them to itty bits.
about getting knocked away from skulks when you are hit by them while jumping. this should be changed so you don't get knocked away or if you are knocked away then you should take damage from bumping hard into a wall while not facing it (not a feature of NS) and you should be stunned when you hit something or land by just having your view knocked sideways somehow like when you are hit by an enemy, making it harder to locate and fire on the attacker (notice no dumb increased randomization crap here like some stupid FPS games). that would be the best simulation of getting knocked to the ground without dying that could possibly be done with the engine, and that is something that these games need; sometimes players should be knocked off their feet but since that cannot be done with the engine then just making the players view get knocked away is the best substitute. maybe dropping their gun too? heheh.
Second of all, all Quake 1, and both Quake 1 mission pack secrets don't require RJ nor BH. They are all accessible by normal movements. All Quake 2 and all Quake 2 mission pack single player map secrets don't require RJ nor BH. There are a couple of point release Quake 2 multiplayer maps that require RJ to get to certain areas, but bunny hopping never plays a role. I suggest you get your facts straight.
Actually, Proning is supported by Half-Life, or is workable. Thing is, with no accuracy gains it has no real place in NS, so there's no implementation that could also be used for knockdown.
Personally, I'd like to see something like the FA prone system when you get bounced across the room by a mid-air bite. You either stay on the ground and can shuffle around slower, or you can choose to stand up, have your weapon go down for about three to five seconds while you're getting up, and are unable to move in that time. Possibly when you get knocked down, you have to grab your gun again... it'd be realistic for it to get flung out of your hands after you just crashed into the wall opposite, and above all:
<b>it'd cut down on ferret-on-speed-having-a-seizure crack-bouncing Marines.</b>
Really kills the atmosphere to have Marines bouncing up and down nearly nonstop, with no accuracy penalties. I can see a rolling dodge to the side (with accuracy loss) to get out of the way... but you AREN'T gonna be able to do it non-stop.
Which map is it that you're thinking of that "requires" the grenade jump? I might still remember how to get the secret.
- People figure out how to take advantage of the engine/level/etc. that gives them an advantage in the game (unfair or not), <i>that the author did not intend</i>. At this point it is an <b>exploit</b>.
- If the authors accept it as a reasonable tactic, it then turns into a <b>skill</b>. If not, it <b>remains an exploit</b> until the problem is fixed.
The authors really have the only say on whether it's an exploit or not. It's thier creation, not yours. As it has been said, Flayra did not envision the tense atmospheres of Natural-Selection games being ruined by teams of leet bunny-hopping retards, so it remains an exploit, even if it does take some skill to master.
Rocket jumping is an instant jump, not a delayed thing. It was completely unintended.
Second of all, all Quake 1, and both Quake 1 mission pack secrets don't require RJ nor BH. They are all accessible by normal movements. All Quake 2 and all Quake 2 mission pack single player map secrets don't require RJ nor BH. There are a couple of point release Quake 2 multiplayer maps that require RJ to get to certain areas, but bunny hopping never plays a role. I suggest you get your facts straight. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although you don't need to strafe jump to get to areas in a map, most of them are accessed so much faster with a jump that it's considered normal.
yup, this one is headed this way, I can smell it...
and the ferret-on-crack-hopping marine will hop until he gets to 170% of max speed, and then go back down to 100%, and that doesn't mean skulks can BH in retribution, beucase they will go mutch faster, however when you get blink/JP BH goes out the window...
and BH as a gorge is essential to not get pwned
(example) <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <----------he is jumping
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Which map is it that you're thinking of that "requires" the grenade jump? I might still remember how to get the secret. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i cannot remember what map it was but it was one of the medieval ones instead of the sci fi ones and there was a teleportal doorway that was horizontal above your head. there was also an invincibility thing near it and there was a curious small shallow square-like hole under the teleportal. i got the invincibility thing then fired a grenade toward the hole. it falls in and stays there. then you stand over that hole and wait. the grenade goes off and blasts you into the teleportal above you. it's too high to just jump up to it.
i assume the small hole in the floor is to get the grenade to lock into the correct place and also so you can stand over it without needing to jump when the blast goes off to get thrown up, and the invincibility is so the grenade doesn't damage you. to me it looks like so much evidence that they wanted you to grenade jump.
There should be an upgrade that lets u BH... 4 marines and 4 aliens
AND AS 4 THE THREAD <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im too busy fragging.. I dont have time 4 secrets
i assume the small hole in the floor is to get the grenade to lock into the correct place and also so you can stand over it without needing to jump when the blast goes off to get thrown up, and the invincibility is so the grenade doesn't damage you. to me it looks like so much evidence that they wanted you to grenade jump. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm thinking the Cistern (or was the Cistern a dm map?), where there's a lot of wide open spaces, which were extremely rare for Quake 1.
Is the theme of the level pinkish red? One of the later episode 4 ones right?
I think I know what you're talking about. To get into that teleporter, you don't need a rocket jump. From what I recall, you get a nailgun in a very dark hallway in a very different area, but instead of going straight, there's an icon you shoot to open up the side walls, and in turn open up a balcony that leads into the teleporter. It probably doesn't help that the level you're thinking of has a hallway circumventing the large cubic center of the map. The trick to the secret is that to access the teleporter, you need to unlock the balcony area which is seemingly in a totally different location. It's definitely one of the harder secrets to get to and is one of those secret within a secret area (like the Doom secret level exits.)
Just to make sure, when you spawn, you have to go up a high ramp, and then around a corner, and then up the ramp even more? And on the ramp is a patrolling ogre right?
I played a lot of Quake and as most of the ppl I think ID makes the best engine ever and the way it is done I dont believe BH was an accident (nor Rocketjumping).
And some secrets have multiple ways to reach them, one the nonBH way and the BH way, also u need a good run for a long distance BH jump, wich were also there on some places : a long run with a ramp and water beneath, u could be right (and I never intended to flame like that, i mean my post started with if ppl could stop calling it an exlpoit) but u should explain me those BH kinda designed ramps for me (the short way to stuff), I havent got Q2 anymore so I cant really point out those places for u, maybe somebody else knows what I mean <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
besides the way I remember it ppl started calling BH an exlpoit in CS, in TFC nor Quake I never heard such stuff...
[edit] excuse my 'english' [/edit]
In fact, BH has always been complained about and labelled an exploit. The deal was that everyone was doing it so people didn't complain since nobody was ever guilt free.
RJ on the other hand was rarely called an exploit since it was a hefty sacrifice to have a rocket explode right at your foot. Afterall, it did follow "real life" theoretical physics (although the force would knock you unconscious). BH on the other hand did not follow theoretical physics.
This is one I can remember and wich im definitly sure it exists (I used this one to learn BH to my friends)
It was something like this (not exactly)
i assume the small hole in the floor is to get the grenade to lock into the correct place and also so you can stand over it without needing to jump when the blast goes off to get thrown up, and the invincibility is so the grenade doesn't damage you. to me it looks like so much evidence that they wanted you to grenade jump. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm thinking the Cistern (or was the Cistern a dm map?), where there's a lot of wide open spaces, which were extremely rare for Quake 1.
Is the theme of the level pinkish red? One of the later episode 4 ones right?
I think I know what you're talking about. To get into that teleporter, you don't need a rocket jump. From what I recall, you get a nailgun in a very dark hallway in a very different area, but instead of going straight, there's an icon you shoot to open up the side walls, and in turn open up a balcony that leads into the teleporter. It probably doesn't help that the level you're thinking of has a hallway circumventing the large cubic center of the map. The trick to the secret is that to access the teleporter, you need to unlock the balcony area which is seemingly in a totally different location. It's definitely one of the harder secrets to get to and is one of those secret within a secret area (like the Doom secret level exits.)
Just to make sure, when you spawn, you have to go up a high ramp, and then around a corner, and then up the ramp even more? And on the ramp is a patrolling ogre right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i don' think it's that. i wish i had quake1 installed right now so i could check it and find out for sure. i'm really interested in finding out about this because it may prove that Id software invented grenade jumping.
The speed boost is however sufficient enough to allow a marine to move backwards faster than a skulk moves forward. This makes it virtually impossible for a skulk to close the gap on a marine who is trying to evade him.
The developers intentionally made it so that marines walk slower backwards than forwards. Bunnyhopping negates this element of the game's design. It is for this reason that bunnyhopping needs to go.
Sorry, but Ziggurat Vertigo was E1M8, and was the only Quake1 map to feature low gravity. The map wth the grenade-jumping hole was E4M4 ("Palace of Hate"). Here's a pic of the area in question:
<img src='http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pr.searle/forums/ns/quake.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Sorry, but Ziggurat Vertigo was E1M8, and was the only Quake1 map to feature low gravity. The map wth the grenade-jumping hole was E4M4 ("Palace of Hate"). Here's a pic of the area in question:
<img src='http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pr.searle/forums/ns/quake.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes prsearle that pic is of the exact place i was talking about. thankyou. btw did you use cheats to get weapons coz i think you're not supposed to have rocket launcher by this map. Anavrin what do you have to say about this secret? how did you get into that teleporter?
I'm looking at the body of the fiend - and i'm thinking "Rodeo".
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And there was a whole fiasco following the release of Quake 2 where they were trying to decide whether or not to remove aerial acceleration completely. From what I can remember, the unpatched Q2 did not have aerial acceleration, meaning you couldn't bunny hop or perform Super Mario jumps.
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You're a bit confused on the Q2 issue. The debate was related to air control, and wasn't directly aimed at bunnyhopping. Q1 (and half-life) have quite dynamic air control that allows players to stop on a dime, and change their direction of motion in the air, Q2 was originally created with very limited air control. Air control that gave you practically no control over your motion in the air. Q1 players didn't like this much, so a heated debate grew around the issue.
For one particular patch, id added Q1 style air control to Q2. I'm not sure what public opinion of this was, or what id thought of the result but the air control was removed in the next patch. It was a rather strange situation where the physics of a game changed dramatically for only short time period :)
If you want some quick backlog, here's an old article: <a href='http://www.planetquake.com/ra2io/ed_air.shtm' target='_blank'>http://www.planetquake.com/ra2io/ed_air.shtm</a> - First thing i could grab off google. The author is clearly pushing his own side of the debate but you can pull some facts out of there.
As for bunnyhopping, here's the thing: Bunnyhopping was both possible and very effective with both forms of Q2 air control. The debate was over the ability to turn in the air, and was not focused on bunnyhopping. The final version of Q2 as it stands now has near-zero air control, but bunnyhopping is considered an essential part of the gameplay, and players can easily triple their speed given the appropriate run up.
Hopping and rocket jumping were not intended by id software. But wether they were intended or not is hardly an issue, they were embraced by the community and became part of the gameplay.