That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
8 gorges all webbing and healing spraying with adrenaline, not to mention plopping down oc's and dc's like crazy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--TankBuster+May 1 2003, 04:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TankBuster @ May 1 2003, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I did a search but I turned up no results and error messages <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> So maybe someone could kindly point me to a link where this was discussed before or just quickly brief me on your ideas for countering heavies. Killing off their RTs doesn't seem to be enough because of the res bug. With three res towers, 5 minutes can buy a squad of heavies with hmgs and welders. And then it?s game over for the Kharaa once they start making their rounds.
<b>If only</b> spore cloud was available to lvl 2 lerks and damage wasn?t hindered by armor. I mean heavies still have to breathe don?t they? That would have been a great counter! ?if only (sigh). <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Webs.... I've seen 2 gorgs and a fade take down 5hmg/ha's... webs r the craziest thing ever. You can even web welding marines.... its like web their feet and they go AHHH
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A good melee fade can go toe-to-toe with a HA\HMG, by himself, and win most of the time. The problem is, you have to be a *good* melee fade. Celerity helps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. I could take down a HA/HMG alone with a skulk, without even getting hurt! He just has to be really really <b>really</b> bad. You can do anything as long as your opponent just sucks enough. How about we instead assume that your opponent is at your own skill level.. what then? If I went up against myself as Fade/HA in close combat, one on one, my HA alter ego would win <b>every time</b>. So my conclusion i sthat this isn't a Good Tactic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->more players doesnt speed up the marines, it just slows down the aliens, cus there are more aliens to take from the hive res pool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is just wrong all the way.
1:st It doesn't "slow down" aliens. Alien resources come in at the same speed no matter what the player number, it is just the distribution that differs.
2:nd More players does <b>indeed</b> speed up Marines... a lot. I thought everyone knew this. Check how many resources per tick you get at the start (1 rt) on a 24 player server, then on a 12 player server. Learn the resource model.
Not gonna bother reading the entire thing, but, it is incredibly easy to kill ha with 3 dcs, gorge, and two fades, rarely does it matter the amount, provided they aren't in your face. Basically, acid rocket, acid rocket, acid rocket, do that, and then when they retreat, blink up and slash till one or two go down or you need to retreat, and try blinking back to get some health. Of course, the gorge is there to heal and web up whenever able, this will especially help against Grens, who, unlike HMG's, can really put you down even at long range as with HMG's, 1 out of every say 6 bullets hit, whereas Grens, they explode, big <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+May 4 2003, 06:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ May 4 2003, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+May 3 2003, 07:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ May 3 2003, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> HOW on earth could you fight fades with a welder of all things??? Damn - you must either have superflytrickachick elite skills or else you happed upon seriously dementedly poor fades... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well this was back in 1.03, welders did slightly more damage than now, and I'll admit the fades were dumb in that they didn't retreat. My partner and I welded our armor back faster than they can damage us, and eventually our welders just did enough damage to the fades to kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In 1.03, welders healed 10 pts of damage 10 times per second. With the 95% absorb on HA, you are looking at 190 pts of damage healed per second. If two HA's did nothing but heal each other, even three fades slamming acid rockets into the same HA won't make a dent in the armor (only does 180 damage/sec). Even going into melee won't help - only does about 120-140 pts/sec per fade, assuming you manage a 100% hitrate.
Basically, HAs was pretty much invicible. Still are in 1.04,even though the welder damage was lowered to 7 from 10.
A group of HA's all welding each other are only suspicable to the great HA killer - the gorge and his web. Correctly done, a couple of gorges can lock down any number of HA's lacking GL's.
A balanced mix of HMG/GL armed HA's (2 HMG, 1 GL is the minimum group. 3 HA and 3 GLs for a group of 6) makes for a pretty much invincible force though - the grenades clears out any web and makes things uncomfortable for the fragile lerks, forcing them to retreat or die.
Well, teamwork is the only way to do it... you really have to have a whole team to beat 6 HA squad. Around two lerks, two gorges, and four fades, and a little luck will do, provided everyone knows what they're doing.
i killed like 3 ha in a row ( one at a time but in one life) once with a cara celeity skulk, only one actulay shot at me, but his aime was a bit of cus i was climbin all over him, the other 2 we guarding halways, i saw were they wer, they shot, i ran away and come from behind, they were very inatentive. (read luck, stealth+overly focuses marin x2)
actulay i from what ive seen umbra at point blank and bite em to death, 2 skulks, a lerk, and a fade killed a team of 3 mid skilled ha (they werent uber leet, only one was weilding in the heat of batle the other were trying to hose with hmg, but being unefective in the umbra) the fade ran before we killed em all though, one was by my skulk the other 2 were killed by lerk bites.
in a diferent game we were geting our **** kicked, redemtion wasnt kicking in the way it normaly does for some reason (got killed a redem fade by a hmg at first encounter, and later by a lmg after i had killed a dif guy and had like 100 hp left) i got **** cus the res trickle was realy slow that day, so idecided even though i suck lerk i would, and just spray umbra all the time, that waht i did, they were pushin our hive at via, and i umbrad till enoph random bullits actualy hit me, ran to hive heal and was back umbraing our 2 fades and the gorge.
Teamwork.. Only way to kill a HA.. This is what a hive 2 gorge and fade did..
Ok.. So classic uh.. what's the name.. Hmm.. Err.. The one with Powersilo/cargo/viaduct.
Marines rushed cargo, we have viaduct. We keep rines pinned in with their 3 res node, it's a 5v4 game. We keep the marines pinned in to their base while we secure powersilo. We eventually control the whole map, including, we create a HUGE WoL in the tunnel from generator and docking station. One of our guys is a lerk and is awesome, flying in and out of cargo, constantly taking down their guys from inside their base and knocking out weak structures. One is a gorge, and myself and one other is a fade. Other fade is pestering the marines in cargo, and not long ago they got HA/HMG. Course they always have to run back, heal and stuff. 4 of them have HA/HMG..
It's natural to expect one of them to absent-mindedly wander off looking for the unknowing alien to kill. Too bad they never learned that web+fade claws=dead HA/HMG marine. This gorge and I killed about 6 or 7 HA/HMG marines, they never learned that they really shouldn't head outside of the range of their turret farm. Eventually their res dwindled down, and they couldn't afford anything else.. At that point.. All of the aliens simply rushed their base, webbed it up, and killed em off.
In the end.. It's pretty simple, just get a gorge to make a lotta noise(carapace on gorge is a must), attract a marine, have an alien (anything will work, lerk would be difficult), web the hell outta em and have the other alien jump em and tear em to peices. Even with HA, they aren't invincible.
HAs that weld and get ammo/health when htey as for it, moving in a groups...thatsthe best marines can field in NS...against one hive? SHOULD you be able to resist that? It would be like comparing vanilla marines defending against umbraed Onos with adren, carpace and DC forests just outside combat...
Comments
Killing off their RTs doesn't seem to be enough because of the res bug. With three res towers, 5 minutes can buy a squad of heavies with hmgs and welders. And then it?s game over for the Kharaa once they start making their rounds.
<b>If only</b> spore cloud was available to lvl 2 lerks and damage wasn?t hindered by armor. I mean heavies still have to breathe don?t they? That would have been a great counter! ?if only (sigh).
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Webs.... I've seen 2 gorgs and a fade take down 5hmg/ha's... webs r the craziest thing ever. You can even web welding marines.... its like web their feet and they go AHHH
Yeah. I could take down a HA/HMG alone with a skulk, without even getting hurt! He just has to be really really <b>really</b> bad. You can do anything as long as your opponent just sucks enough. How about we instead assume that your opponent is at your own skill level.. what then? If I went up against myself as Fade/HA in close combat, one on one, my HA alter ego would win <b>every time</b>. So my conclusion i sthat this isn't a Good Tactic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->more players doesnt speed up the marines, it just slows down the aliens, cus there are more aliens to take from the hive res pool. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is just wrong all the way.
1:st It doesn't "slow down" aliens. Alien resources come in at the same speed no matter what the player number, it is just the distribution that differs.
2:nd More players does <b>indeed</b> speed up Marines... a lot. I thought everyone knew this. Check how many resources per tick you get at the start (1 rt) on a 24 player server, then on a 12 player server. Learn the resource model.
Well this was back in 1.03, welders did slightly more damage than now, and I'll admit the fades were dumb in that they didn't retreat. My partner and I welded our armor back faster than they can damage us, and eventually our welders just did enough damage to the fades to kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In 1.03, welders healed 10 pts of damage 10 times per second. With the 95% absorb on HA, you are looking at 190 pts of damage healed per second. If two HA's did nothing but heal each other, even three fades slamming acid rockets into the same HA won't make a dent in the armor (only does 180 damage/sec). Even going into melee won't help - only does about 120-140 pts/sec per fade, assuming you manage a 100% hitrate.
Basically, HAs was pretty much invicible. Still are in 1.04,even though the welder damage was lowered to 7 from 10.
A group of HA's all welding each other are only suspicable to the great HA killer - the gorge and his web. Correctly done, a couple of gorges can lock down any number of HA's lacking GL's.
A balanced mix of HMG/GL armed HA's (2 HMG, 1 GL is the minimum group. 3 HA and 3 GLs for a group of 6) makes for a pretty much invincible force though - the grenades clears out any web and makes things uncomfortable for the fragile lerks, forcing them to retreat or die.
actulay i from what ive seen umbra at point blank and bite em to death, 2 skulks, a lerk, and a fade killed a team of 3 mid skilled ha (they werent uber leet, only one was weilding in the heat of batle the other were trying to hose with hmg, but being unefective in the umbra) the fade ran before we killed em all though, one was by my skulk the other 2 were killed by lerk bites.
in a diferent game we were geting our **** kicked, redemtion wasnt kicking in the way it normaly does for some reason (got killed a redem fade by a hmg at first encounter, and later by a lmg after i had killed a dif guy and had like 100 hp left) i got **** cus the res trickle was realy slow that day, so idecided even though i suck lerk i would, and just spray umbra all the time, that waht i did, they were pushin our hive at via, and i umbrad till enoph random bullits actualy hit me, ran to hive heal and was back umbraing our 2 fades and the gorge.
in the end its all about umbra or luck.
Ok.. So classic uh.. what's the name.. Hmm.. Err.. The one with Powersilo/cargo/viaduct.
Marines rushed cargo, we have viaduct. We keep rines pinned in with their 3 res node, it's a 5v4 game. We keep the marines pinned in to their base while we secure powersilo. We eventually control the whole map, including, we create a HUGE WoL in the tunnel from generator and docking station. One of our guys is a lerk and is awesome, flying in and out of cargo, constantly taking down their guys from inside their base and knocking out weak structures. One is a gorge, and myself and one other is a fade. Other fade is pestering the marines in cargo, and not long ago they got HA/HMG. Course they always have to run back, heal and stuff. 4 of them have HA/HMG..
It's natural to expect one of them to absent-mindedly wander off looking for the unknowing alien to kill. Too bad they never learned that web+fade claws=dead HA/HMG marine. This gorge and I killed about 6 or 7 HA/HMG marines, they never learned that they really shouldn't head outside of the range of their turret farm. Eventually their res dwindled down, and they couldn't afford anything else.. At that point.. All of the aliens simply rushed their base, webbed it up, and killed em off.
In the end.. It's pretty simple, just get a gorge to make a lotta noise(carapace on gorge is a must), attract a marine, have an alien (anything will work, lerk would be difficult), web the hell outta em and have the other alien jump em and tear em to peices. Even with HA, they aren't invincible.
HAs that weld and get ammo/health when htey as for it, moving in a groups...thatsthe best marines can field in NS...against one hive? SHOULD you be able to resist that? It would be like comparing vanilla marines defending against umbraed Onos with adren, carpace and DC forests just outside combat...