<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I certainly want to see bunny-hopping eliminated. That, without any doubt, is not part of the NS atmosphere. But I think there are other ways to remove b-hopping as opposed to the CS-style "jump-and-break-both-your-legs-upon-landing" method. I'm not a programmer, but others have mentioned decreasing movement speed in the air or introducing a DoD style stamina bar. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
rofl! ur kiddin, right? bunny hopping is like...the only defence when runnin from 3 skulks. and a stamina bar would MAKE SURE that i would NEVER play as a marine...unless they like brought back the nuke or something <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> in 1.04 marines already get the **** knocked out of them fast enough....and if aliens get all them new upgrades...while marines have to BUY more buildings/upgrades with higher prices in order to get the same stuff as in 1.04...then yeah...marines will be boned <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> oh well...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Deja vu! Everyone said the same thing on the CS 1.4 forums.
Now, if the parallel holds true, the next wave of posts will accuse Flayra of being a sellout because he removed bunnyhopping. (No bunnyhopping = sellout.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, i didnt leave cs 1.4 cuz of that....i just found hacks that let me do it INSTEAD! ROFL! <span style='color:white'>Strike two.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+May 18 2003, 01:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 18 2003, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Run a search on 'Lerk' and 'Spike', then come and tell me again that only the marines are being nerfed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lurker's "spikes" do less damage, but shoot much faster, so they end up doing more damage.
Actually, I was referring to the replacement of bite with spikes, which big parts of the community seem to judge as a nerf.
In the end, it's all a question of balancing. If the playtests show the aliens being superior, they're weakened. If the playtests show the marines being superior - guess what.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+May 18 2003, 07:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 18 2003, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the playtests show the marines being superior - guess what.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They are given personal nukes?
<!--QuoteBegin--RpTheHotrod+May 18 2003, 01:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RpTheHotrod @ May 18 2003, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They had better nerf jumping for aliens as well. I'm sick of marine nerfs and giving aliens more and more.
Jumping to the side is the only way to win a skulk fight as a marine. Don't give me tha "you can shoot far away" crap, because 90% of the maps are close quarters.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nerf jumping for skulks and you have dominating marines.
Also you say Aliens have only been improved but you forget some key points.
*Acid Rocket is a 3 hive ability instead of 2 *Webs is a 3 hive ability instead of 2 *Charge is now 3 hive ability instead of 2
2 hive aliens aren't the game enders they were in 1.0x
<!--QuoteBegin--SkitZoFrenic+May 18 2003, 11:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkitZoFrenic @ May 18 2003, 11:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and if aliens get all them new upgrades...while marines have to BUY more buildings/upgrades with higher prices in order to get the same stuff as in 1.04...then yeah...marines will be boned <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> oh well...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you would look the new prices for 1.1 from Beta Discussion forum, you would be aware that buildings and upgrades are cheaper than they were in 1.04. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> (not all of them, but still...)
Can someone who has played the new version tell me how it is possible to win a fight vs. skulks now? Or do the marines just die as soon as a skulk is in bite rage?
<!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+May 18 2003, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ May 18 2003, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can someone who has played the new version tell me how it is possible to win a fight vs. skulks now? Or do the marines just die as soon as a skulk is in bite rage?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The skulk is supposed to own within its bite range.
and 90% of the map are having the aliens in that range <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
and btw...aliens get bite, true...and acid rockets, umbra, fat cloud, bile bomb (vs structrues only) all ranged attacks as well. You act like all aliens get is bite
Right now if i see a marine as a skulk i <i>try</i> to sneak up on him. If he doesn't see me until im 3 feet away, i bite his butt off. Now, in 1.04 there are the following ways the fight can go:
1- Marine turns around, and is hurt badly, but i am killed. 2- Marine turns around, and hurts me alittle, but i kill him. 3- Marine doesn't notice and i win, no damage. 4- Marine checks his back early and i get waxed. 5- Marine gets hit once, then jumps like a rabit to the nearest wall/corner, and while in mid-air does a about-face and begins to fire. I close the distance as best i can and i either: get killed or marine jumps away again to repeat the process.
I think i like it when there are only <i><b>four</b></i> choices. IE: remove no. 5.
If you dont like something that will increase the play value of natural selection, and the atmostphere as well; go play something else. Nuff' said.
This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is fun. From my experience the people who say "down with bunnyhopping" don't know WTH is is in the first place. Jumping up and down is not affected by this new change nor is it considered bunnyhopping. In 1.04 bunnyhopping was a way to get around a SLIGHT bit faster than u could by just walking around. Removing bunnyhopping removes a lot of the fun of being a marine. I thought being hardly able to walk backwards was bad enough.
<!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+May 18 2003, 06:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ May 18 2003, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can someone who has played the new version tell me how it is possible to win a fight vs. skulks now? Or do the marines just die as soon as a skulk is in bite rage?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, there are a varity of... solutions to use.
For instance, you can try usuing your 500 dmg per clip LMG, and if that isn't enough, you can use your 200 dmg backup, or use your 30 dmg knife which never stops firing and fires twice as fast as a skulk.
Also, you can try hitting them before they even get into range, as it only takes 9 shots to kill at the start from a LMG, BEFORE dmg upgrades, or 4 bullets from a pistol.
Other things which may seem odd to you:
Aim! Yes, a person who doesn't miss will literally completely own skulks! Teamwork! God forbid! Tatics! Yikes!
And, if you are gonna have trouble against a measly skulk, I bet you can't wait untill you get to tango with a fade or an onos! Or the almighty gorge!
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'> What shall we do...?</span>
have you even played 1.1 forlorn? Would be odd to answer that if you haven't.
You can still backwards bhop away kinda. Not like you used to be able to, but its still by far the best option. The people who are complaining about it now will probably still be complaining about it in 1.1. Skill is still needed to kill a rien with a skulk.
There is already something in the game for those who love to jump... JETPACK! Convince your commander to give you one and hop away, grasshopper! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Eats+May 18 2003, 07:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eats @ May 18 2003, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->have you even played 1.1 forlorn? Would be odd to answer that if you haven't.
You can still backwards bhop away kinda. Not like you used to be able to, but its still by far the best option. The people who are complaining about it now will probably still be complaining about it in 1.1. Skill is still needed to kill a rien with a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To your first point: I haven't played v1.1.
Sure, you can no longer bhop away to safety as effectivly; what's the big deal? This is a GOOD thing. You said it yourself in the beta forums already: The stock units(the marines) are too good, and that's why big games can result of it.
So if the stock units are too damn good, then lets start with the proper solution:
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+May 18 2003, 06:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ May 18 2003, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is fun. From my experience the people who say "down with bunnyhopping" don't know WTH is is in the first place. Jumping up and down is not affected by this new change nor is it considered bunnyhopping. In 1.04 bunnyhopping was a way to get around a SLIGHT bit faster than u could by just walking around. Removing bunnyhopping removes a lot of the fun of being a marine. I thought being hardly able to walk backwards was bad enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is not fun. From my experience the people who say "down with bunnyhopping" don't want NS battles to be deathmatch. In 1.04 bunnyhopping was a way to get around a NORMAL alien advantage in close quarters. Bunnyhopping removes a lot of the fun of being an alien. I thought being hardly able to get close to a marine with 10 armor was hard enough.
<!--QuoteBegin--mursu+May 18 2003, 03:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mursu @ May 18 2003, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I like that in the new DoD you cant shoot while jumping.
Hey now...?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Err acually you can. But only with automatics. you got to start shooting before you jump and you'll continue shooting. Works with bandaging too.
And bunnyhopping takes away from the fact marines are suppose to move slow backwards. Bhopping gets you around that and is absolutly lame. I've hated bhopping in every mod and in this one i hate it the most.
So basically you want to say that if a skulk ambushes you you can't get away from it. You WILL die. Nice... Nice to hear we've lost even basic defensive movement tactics. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+May 18 2003, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ May 18 2003, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So basically you want to say that if a skulk ambushes you you can't get away from it. You WILL die. Nice... Nice to hear we've lost even basic defensive movement tactics. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So basically you want to say that if a skulk ambushes you you can't get away from it. You WILL die. Nice... Nice to hear we've lost even basic defensive movement tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...this is EXACTLY what the skulk is ment to do. It's a little meaty thing comprised mainly of teeth and claws, if you let it get in close range you are SUPPOSED to be up that famous creek with no method of propulsion. It's not an iron clad guareentee that you'll die but it should be pretty close, and that's a great thing. If you didn't use teamwork to move as a group, or get the commander to scan in front of you, or stay away from dark hidey holes, then you're going to get ambushed most likely. Will this be an unstoppable uber tactic? Seeing as I play marines heaps and never use bhopping, yet manage to defeat ambushes plenty of times, I'd say no.
<!--QuoteBegin--Eats+May 18 2003, 09:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eats @ May 18 2003, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marines aren't the stock unit. Marines are every unit on that side.
And bunny hopping is fun. It's silly to act like it isn't. Aliens can bhop too you know?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marine's aren't the stock unit?
The 500 dmg toting 1 res unit of doom with perfect accuracy, plus a 200 dmg backup?
If marine's aren't the stock unit... then I don't know what is.
And Bhopping is fun for the marine. Not for the skulk. Skulks should be able to bhop, to gain a movement and CQB advantage over the marine.
<!--QuoteBegin--RpTheHotrod+May 18 2003, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RpTheHotrod @ May 18 2003, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, marines are not allowed to bunnyhop....but aliens are.
In other words
marines arn't allowed to exploit the engine, but aliens are.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow - I didn't know that! If true, it brings to my mind an old 4-Skins song which went: "ONE LAW FOR THEM AND ANOTHER ONE FOR US" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+May 18 2003, 06:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ May 18 2003, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you speaking as a marine who has a ranged weapon and can move faster backwards bunny hopping than a skulk can do forwards without doing it, or are you speaking as the skulk in the same situation? Bunny hopping isn't fun, try to put yourself in the other persons place for once instead of just thinking about yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin--RpTheHotrod+May 18 2003, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RpTheHotrod @ May 18 2003, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, marines are not allowed to bunnyhop....but aliens are.
In other words
marines arn't allowed to exploit the engine, but aliens are.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not going to entertain the notion that aliens should bunny-jump, but for the ones that don't know, there are no "perfect" way of fixing bunny-jumping short of ripping out the physics engine and starting from scratch. Any fixes so far impairs the player in one way or the other.
First of all, while I don't like bunny-jumping at all, not because I'm unable to, but because it's an exploit, there are two different situations at hand. Using bunny-jumping to get around the map quicker and using bunny-jumping to avoid/catch an enemy.
Let's start by not kidding ourselves, no game designer will take bunny jumping into consideration when it comes to map balance, and marines aren't supposed to get around very quickly. To compensate for marines having to be on offense and on the move, they have faster spawning and the possibility of multiple spawns at any time. Now, having marines move half-way around the map and secure stuff before a legitimate player has had a chance to get there is a nuisance and it hurts the game balance, but from a personal side, it won't matter much to the alien as he probably don't even know the marine bunny-jumped, so while being a problem, it's a minor game balancing issue as long as speeds aren't uncapped.
In combat on the other hand, it's a completely different beast. For the basic units, Marines are the slower units with the ability to do a lot of ranged damage, but they don't move nearly as well as the skulk which has to get to the marine to kill him. This is called balance. You have one advantage, the other side has another. However, with bunny-jumping in combat, the marine is able to get around the limitation and thus the alien have no advantages and the balance is destroyed, the battle is one-sided and the alien is doomed to loose.
On the other hand, the alien is charging towards the marine, and is supposed to have the advantage of speed, so additional speed does not take away the marines range advantage. At best it reduces it. This is not to say that aliens should bunny-jump. Either way it hurts game balance, but it is much worse when a marine does it than an alien.
Now, some say fades, gorges, lerks, onos.
First off, if you look at the total time of alien as skulk per map compared to other "classes", I'm sure you'll find at the very least 50% of the game-time is spent as skulk, more likely closer to 75%, so most of the encounters with marines will be as a skulk.
Next, let's consider each of the other races individually. Gorge... bunny-jumping may help them get around, but most of the people who takes the time to learn bunny-jumping are the "twitch-happy DM kill'em all and let god sort them out" type of people, who will probably be a skulk or a marine and more interested in fragging instead of moving from res to res to drop structures of various kinds. As for a marine bunnyjumping vs a gorge, it just means you catch up with the gorge and kill it faster.
Next you have Lerks... They fly fast. Very fast. Why would they bother bunnyjumping instead of flying? As for marine doing it, it'll be a bit of an annoyance since flying and shooting is far from easy, but it doesn't hurt them nearly as much as it hurts skulks due to their insane flying speed.
Fades, I gather, have the option of bunny-jumping there, but they have blink most of the time, which moves them around a lot faster in most situations. Vice-versa they have the acid cannon and bile bomb to throw at you to prevent you from running away too far.
Onos... Right now, Onos is really an end-game class and I have yet to encounter a bunny-jumping marine as an Onos, so I can't really comment on that, but I doubt it's much of a problem.
Comments
But I think there are other ways to remove b-hopping as opposed to the CS-style "jump-and-break-both-your-legs-upon-landing" method. I'm not a programmer, but others have mentioned decreasing movement speed in the air or introducing a DoD style stamina bar. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
rofl! ur kiddin, right? bunny hopping is like...the only defence when runnin from 3 skulks. and a stamina bar would MAKE SURE that i would NEVER play as a marine...unless they like brought back the nuke or something <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> in 1.04 marines already get the **** knocked out of them fast enough....and if aliens get all them new upgrades...while marines have to BUY more buildings/upgrades with higher prices in order to get the same stuff as in 1.04...then yeah...marines will be boned <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> oh well...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Deja vu! Everyone said the same thing on the CS 1.4 forums.
Now, if the parallel holds true, the next wave of posts will accuse Flayra of being a sellout because he removed bunnyhopping. (No bunnyhopping = sellout.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, i didnt leave cs 1.4 cuz of that....i just found hacks that let me do it INSTEAD! ROFL! <span style='color:white'>Strike two.</span>
Lurker's "spikes" do less damage, but shoot much faster, so they end up doing more damage.
I wouldn't call that a nerf. Nice try though.
In the end, it's all a question of balancing. If the playtests show the aliens being superior, they're weakened. If the playtests show the marines being superior - guess what.
They are given personal nukes?
Jumping to the side is the only way to win a skulk fight as a marine. Don't give me tha "you can shoot far away" crap, because 90% of the maps are close quarters.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nerf jumping for skulks and you have dominating marines.
Also you say Aliens have only been improved but you forget some key points.
*Acid Rocket is a 3 hive ability instead of 2
*Webs is a 3 hive ability instead of 2
*Charge is now 3 hive ability instead of 2
2 hive aliens aren't the game enders they were in 1.0x
Hey now...?
If you would look the new prices for 1.1 from Beta Discussion forum, you would be aware that buildings and upgrades are cheaper than they were in 1.04. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
(not all of them, but still...)
The skulk is supposed to own within its bite range.
and btw...aliens get bite, true...and acid rockets, umbra, fat cloud, bile bomb (vs structrues only) all ranged attacks as well. You act like all aliens get is bite
1- Marine turns around, and is hurt badly, but i am killed.
2- Marine turns around, and hurts me alittle, but i kill him.
3- Marine doesn't notice and i win, no damage.
4- Marine checks his back early and i get waxed.
5- Marine gets hit once, then jumps like a rabit to the nearest wall/corner, and while in mid-air does a about-face and begins to fire. I close the distance as best i can and i either: get killed or marine jumps away again to repeat the process.
I think i like it when there are only <i><b>four</b></i> choices. IE: remove no. 5.
If you dont like something that will increase the play value of natural selection, and the atmostphere as well; go play something else. Nuff' said.
Well, there are a varity of... solutions to use.
For instance, you can try usuing your 500 dmg per clip LMG, and if that isn't enough, you can use your 200 dmg backup, or use your 30 dmg knife which never stops firing and fires twice as fast as a skulk.
Also, you can try hitting them before they even get into range, as it only takes 9 shots to kill at the start from a LMG, BEFORE dmg upgrades, or 4 bullets from a pistol.
Other things which may seem odd to you:
Aim! Yes, a person who doesn't miss will literally completely own skulks!
Teamwork! God forbid!
Tatics! Yikes!
And, if you are gonna have trouble against a measly skulk, I bet you can't wait untill you get to tango with a fade or an onos! Or the almighty gorge!
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'> What shall we do...?</span>
[/MOCK]
You can still backwards bhop away kinda. Not like you used to be able to, but its still by far the best option. The people who are complaining about it now will probably still be complaining about it in 1.1. Skill is still needed to kill a rien with a skulk.
You can still backwards bhop away kinda. Not like you used to be able to, but its still by far the best option. The people who are complaining about it now will probably still be complaining about it in 1.1. Skill is still needed to kill a rien with a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To your first point: I haven't played v1.1.
Sure, you can no longer bhop away to safety as effectivly; what's the big deal? This is a GOOD thing. You said it yourself in the beta forums already: The stock units(the marines) are too good, and that's why big games can result of it.
So if the stock units are too damn good, then lets start with the proper solution:
NERF THE STOCK UNITS, FFS!
This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is not fun. From my experience the people who say "down with bunnyhopping" don't want NS battles to be deathmatch. In 1.04 bunnyhopping was a way to get around a NORMAL alien advantage in close quarters. Bunnyhopping removes a lot of the fun of being an alien. I thought being hardly able to get close to a marine with 10 armor was hard enough.
And bunny hopping is fun. It's silly to act like it isn't. Aliens can bhop too you know?
Hey now...?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err acually you can. But only with automatics. you got to start shooting before you jump and you'll continue shooting. Works with bandaging too.
Dude....
Tatics? OMG!
Aim? HOLY CRAP!
Teamwork? H4x!
...this is EXACTLY what the skulk is ment to do. It's a little meaty thing comprised mainly of teeth and claws, if you let it get in close range you are SUPPOSED to be up that famous creek with no method of propulsion. It's not an iron clad guareentee that you'll die but it should be pretty close, and that's a great thing. If you didn't use teamwork to move as a group, or get the commander to scan in front of you, or stay away from dark hidey holes, then you're going to get ambushed most likely. Will this be an unstoppable uber tactic? Seeing as I play marines heaps and never use bhopping, yet manage to defeat ambushes plenty of times, I'd say no.
And bunny hopping is fun. It's silly to act like it isn't. Aliens can bhop too you know?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine's aren't the stock unit?
The 500 dmg toting 1 res unit of doom with perfect accuracy, plus a 200 dmg backup?
If marine's aren't the stock unit... then I don't know what is.
And Bhopping is fun for the marine. Not for the skulk. Skulks should be able to bhop, to gain a movement and CQB advantage over the marine.
In other words
marines arn't allowed to exploit the engine, but aliens are.
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In other words
marines arn't allowed to exploit the engine, but aliens are.
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Wow - I didn't know that! If true, it brings to my mind an old 4-Skins song which went: "ONE LAW FOR THEM
AND ANOTHER ONE FOR US" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Are you speaking as a marine who has a ranged weapon and can move faster backwards bunny hopping than a skulk can do forwards without doing it, or are you speaking as the skulk in the same situation? Bunny hopping isn't fun, try to put yourself in the other persons place for once instead of just thinking about yourself.
In other words
marines arn't allowed to exploit the engine, but aliens are.
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I'm not going to entertain the notion that aliens should bunny-jump, but for the ones that don't know, there are no "perfect" way of fixing bunny-jumping short of ripping out the physics engine and starting from scratch. Any fixes so far impairs the player in one way or the other.
First of all, while I don't like bunny-jumping at all, not because I'm unable to, but because it's an exploit, there are two different situations at hand. Using bunny-jumping to get around the map quicker and using bunny-jumping to avoid/catch an enemy.
Let's start by not kidding ourselves, no game designer will take bunny jumping into consideration when it comes to map balance, and marines aren't supposed to get around very quickly. To compensate for marines having to be on offense and on the move, they have faster spawning and the possibility of multiple spawns at any time. Now, having marines move half-way around the map and secure stuff before a legitimate player has had a chance to get there is a nuisance and it hurts the game balance, but from a personal side, it won't matter much to the alien as he probably don't even know the marine bunny-jumped, so while being a problem, it's a minor game balancing issue as long as speeds aren't uncapped.
In combat on the other hand, it's a completely different beast. For the basic units, Marines are the slower units with the ability to do a lot of ranged damage, but they don't move nearly as well as the skulk which has to get to the marine to kill him. This is called balance. You have one advantage, the other side has another. However, with bunny-jumping in combat, the marine is able to get around the limitation and thus the alien have no advantages and the balance is destroyed, the battle is one-sided and the alien is doomed to loose.
On the other hand, the alien is charging towards the marine, and is supposed to have the advantage of speed, so additional speed does not take away the marines range advantage. At best it reduces it. This is not to say that aliens should bunny-jump. Either way it hurts game balance, but it is much worse when a marine does it than an alien.
Now, some say fades, gorges, lerks, onos.
First off, if you look at the total time of alien as skulk per map compared to other "classes", I'm sure you'll find at the very least 50% of the game-time is spent as skulk, more likely closer to 75%, so most of the encounters with marines will be as a skulk.
Next, let's consider each of the other races individually. Gorge... bunny-jumping may help them get around, but most of the people who takes the time to learn bunny-jumping are the "twitch-happy DM kill'em all and let god sort them out" type of people, who will probably be a skulk or a marine and more interested in fragging instead of moving from res to res to drop structures of various kinds. As for a marine bunnyjumping vs a gorge, it just means you catch up with the gorge and kill it faster.
Next you have Lerks... They fly fast. Very fast. Why would they bother bunnyjumping instead of flying? As for marine doing it, it'll be a bit of an annoyance since flying and shooting is far from easy, but it doesn't hurt them nearly as much as it hurts skulks due to their insane flying speed.
Fades, I gather, have the option of bunny-jumping there, but they have blink most of the time, which moves them around a lot faster in most situations. Vice-versa they have the acid cannon and bile bomb to throw at you to prevent you from running away too far.
Onos... Right now, Onos is really an end-game class and I have yet to encounter a bunny-jumping marine as an Onos, so I can't really comment on that, but I doubt it's much of a problem.