Nooo, Keep Old Jumping

Church · May 2003

I would vote to take bunnyhopping away from aliens as well, but do it in a way so they can jump continuously with no problems, just limit the max speed they can obtain to like 120% or something.

eggmac · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ May 19 2003, 11:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I would vote to take bunnyhopping away from aliens as well, but do it in a way so they can jump continuously with no problems, just limit the max speed they can obtain to like 120% or something.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
That's what could have been done to the marines as well, although I guess it's hard to implement.

Why should the marines not be able to jump normally? It's not only that bunnyhopping is prevented, but also that the marine has far less chances to survive a melee than before, although skulks win melee nearly all the time in 1.04 already. So what's the point in hindering marine jump even more? Moreover, a bunnyhopping skulk is approximately as fast as a leaping skulk, so how are marines supposed to kill them?

And to clear things up:
Bunnyhopping is gaining speed by a certain jumping technique. And many people seem to mix it up with jumping while fighting skulks...

Anyway, I think if it is somehow unbalanced or very unfamiliar, the vets will take care of it. So I just trust them.

Church · May 2003

so instead of both ides bhopping, I want none of the sides to bhop. Same results, except in one the atmosphere is better. And yes I've been on the receiving end of me biting a marine int he back and still dying due to him flying 15 feet away from the bite and then proceeding to bhop backwards faster than I can hop towards him and then getting shot at. It's just not how flayra wanted things. Supposedly in close range melee combat a skulk should win 99% of the time. Bhopping changes all that.

EDIT: Oh that and the map creators created map balance without bhop in mind.

Pulse · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>skulks win melee nearly all the time in 1.04 already</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> That is simply wrong. Thanks to your much beloved jumpy tactics no less. From what I understand this new jumping fixes both bunnyhopping and the jump-dodging which are both problems (IE. Not good). This change will make skulks a lot better at melee, which is a <i>good</i> thing, the whole point is to do everything in your power to make sure you don't get into bite range, bunnyhopping makes this so easy it isn't funny, and jump-dodging makes it so that you might as well not even bother bunnyhopping to get away from them, as they can't get you anyway. And as for you "Why can the aliens still bhop/dodge!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??1111oneoneone" people: How many times have you seen an alien bhop? Not very many huh? Do you ever stop to wonder <i>why</i> this is? Obviously not, or you would have figured out that it doesn't help aliens nearly as much, skulks are already hella fast and dodging doesn't work as it puts you out of bite range, gorge isn't a combat class and they run faster than (non bhop) marines anyway, lerks have flight, fades have blink, and oni don't really care as they are gonna win anyway (this is changed in 1.1 as well if the new TFTFL thread is anything to go by, and I hope it is). Combine that with the fact that the aliens don't have to fight skulks (dodging is useless for just about everything else) and you start to see why they can still jump fast.
[edit] Actually the more I think about it, the more I think that it wouldn't hurt to <i>try</i> doing the same to aliens, although it isn't necessary [/edit]

Lazer · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melkor @ May 18 2003, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ May 18 2003, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is fun. From my experience the people who say "down with bunnyhopping" don't know WTH is is in the first place. Jumping up and down is not affected by this new change nor is it considered bunnyhopping. In 1.04 bunnyhopping was a way to get around a SLIGHT bit faster than u could by just walking around. Removing bunnyhopping removes a lot of the fun of being a marine. I thought being hardly able to walk backwards was bad enough.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This is just dumb, people play games because they are fun. Bunny hopping is not fun. From my experience the people who say "down with bunnyhopping" don't want NS battles to be deathmatch. In 1.04 bunnyhopping was a way to get around a NORMAL alien advantage in close quarters. Bunnyhopping removes a lot of the fun of being an alien. I thought being hardly able to get close to a marine with 10 armor was hard enough.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Wow... you don't know what bunny hopping is. When a skulk is right up to you its just about impossible to get away from it with bunny hopping (or at least the kind that will be changed in 1.1) Bunny hopping is only used as a way to travel around faster from my experience because once you touch something it takes a little bit of jumping to start back up again. Jumping like hell up and down when you see a skulk but not moving around as much is what I'm guessing this new antibunnyhop nerf is going to do. Not really a change though. So why ruin something you can do when your NOT around other aliens. From my experience playing on servers, only like 5% most of the people even know how bunnyhopping works and the other 95% think they do and just jump up and down "oh im bunny hopping!" I'd also like to see why you don't think bunny hopping is fun? You like to be constrained? Or maybe you just play as alien all the time? Plus mocking my perfectly logical post makes you look like even more of an idiot than you've already proven.

Pulse · May 2003

Your post is only logical to you and the hundreds of other idiots that think that marines are <i>supposed</i> to be faster than the aliens, I hate to shatter your false reality, but they aren't.

Church · May 2003

Lazer, all experienced half-life player know exactly what bhopping is, and most of us want it taken out. I don't WANT for you to be able to travel the map faster. That is BAD. Flayra WANTS you to get to places slower than skulks can. If you don't like it, leave.

Lazer · May 2003

A skulk running is still faster than a bunnyhopping marine. I'm sure most people will agree that the jumping in CS SUCKS. Whenever you try and make a jump while running it slows you down to an almost near stop. Now why? I can run around and jump and keep running in real life. I can't bunnyhop in real life, but thats different from slowing you down whenever you make a jump. I think the "slow you down after jumping" method is a poor excuse for a way to stop bunnyhopping. I'm sure there are other ways to prevent it.

For those who just don't get it:
I really don't care if it is made so bunnyhopping doesn't increase your speed, I just don't want to see it decrease your speed.

Jabba_The_Hunt · May 2003

Think about this in terms of reality guys, if you saw a dog running towards you determind to bite ur legs off, would you -

a) Run?
b) Shoot him with your lmg?
c) Jump around like a lunatic hoping he can't jump higher than you?

I mean C just wouldn't happen in reality.

Pulse · May 2003

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother... Lazer: That is impossible, If it weren't it would already be fixed by valve long ago, and even if it was, the problem is more than bhopping, and you don't seem to realize that.

eggmac · May 2003

Silencer, what you are saying is that the <i>boucning away</i> after a bite should be prevented. And I absolutely agree with you. But this has nothing to do with bunnyhopping. Moreover, if you have ever seen a skulk bunnyhop you would not say that:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>How many times have you seen an alien bhop? Not very many huh? Do you ever stop to wonder why this is? Obviously not, or you would have figured out that it doesn't help aliens nearly as much, skulks are already hella fast </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You have never Bhopped as a skulk, right?

Anyway, my concern was the same as Lazer's. But after reading the different responses from the vets I am confident that jumping will remain a valid option.
Thank god, no CS physics!

PAPADUDUPOP · May 2003

stop complaining u cant kill bhopping marines blah blah blah. juz play more and u become better if you look at some of the clans out there they can use skulks to kill jetters with ease and use marines to kill bhoping aliens easily. so i think they shouldnt really change anything.

Grendel · May 2003

This pretty much sums up the situation for a playtester perspective (please note, Veterans are included under the heading of "Playtester" as far as I'm concerned):

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=32386&s=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...f=30&t=32386&s=</a>

Pulse · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Silencer, what you are saying is that the boucning away after a bite should be prevented.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> Not, thats <i>not</i> what I'm saying, I'm saying that you shouldn't be able jump away <i>or</i> bhop.

Stoneburg · May 2003

MMZ_Torak · May 2003

The largest bhopping problem is not getting from A to B faster than intended, it's more so bhopping off the acceleration gained from being bitten by a skulk. Getting close to a skilled marine can be hard enough but once you bite them, they are flung away from you by the force of the bite and then the bhop away even further away using that speed. That starts the vicious cycle of trying to get close again, but this time the skulk is out in the open and an easy mark for the marine.

MMZ_Torak · May 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

BeRzErKeR · May 2003

Hmm.

Leave the jumping as it is, and increase the skulk's base speed to that of lvl1 celerity. The skulk is a tad too slow right now anyways.

MMZ_Torak · May 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Stoneburg · May 2003

Stoneburg · May 2003

Ph0enix · May 2003

Any chance we can avoid stressing out Nem any more and keep this civil ?

juho · May 2003

Actually, Why not let the kharaa to bunnyhop as much as they want. They are, after all, aliens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I found a skulk jumping around to be wery natural. don't ask me why <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

- jtm

Nemesis_Zero · May 2003

The anti-bhop system is not affecting the Kharaa.

Church · May 2003

lazer, i'm sure bhopping marines are faster than regular skulks.

Forlorn · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 19 2003, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The anti-bhop system is not affecting the Kharaa.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Thank god.

coil · May 2003

Wow, page 6 is a beauty, isn't it? Nice work there, Nem. ^^

As for why bunnyhopping *shouldn't* affect aliens... why not go back to our beloved inspirational movies? I give you <i>Aliens</i>. When Ripley starts torching the eggs in the Queen's chamber, several drones attack her. One of them does so by... jumping from wall to wall like some kind of twisted, insane, rabid frog. Mmm, bunnyhopping. ^^

Mart · May 2003

Another reason for Aliens hopping:

The Kharaa are supposed to be agile deadly killing machines, fast and quick footed.
Although whether or not the higher class aliens should get to hop is debatable, I don't really see a gorge bouncing around the map for its survival. Fades I could live with but Onos have a hard enough time fitting down corridors as it is without jumping.

Back to my point, skulks should get to bunnyhop, i'm looking forward to the day I see a skulk bounce from wall to wall before killing me almost instantly.
Also, whereas marine bhopping detracts from the atmosphere, skulk bhopping doesnt.

But now i'm curious to know, gorges and onos, they still get to bunnyhop too?

Cowswin · May 2003

Call me crazy but I, as an avid alien player, do not use bunnyhopping as an alien to get around from place to place as anyone using wide open areas as a mode of transportation when a skulk is out of his/her gourd. When chasing down a fleeing marine the only reason to use bunnyhopping to is to catch the already bunnyhopping marine, which 9 out 10 times doens't work because of their range advantage and higher rate of speed by the time you start.

GhostfaceKillah · May 2003

Dman, I guess my CS bunny hopping wont help me in 1.1

/me goes and thinks of new ways to exploit... anything

Nooo, Keep Old Jumping

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