Something about this game just appeals to everyone. Mayby its because you can actually be so in tune with race you are on because of the atmosphere. For instance when I turn into the kharra, im not a human anymore. To me the humans look stupid and ugly. But when im on the Frotiersman, the aliens make me want to utilize the technology at hand and destroy them. Mostly the reason people play is because they want a game that utilizes teamwork. Natural selection achieves that. Flayra you are a genious. Simply because you have done what no other mod has ever done before. You have achieved teamwork in pubs.
Well said SuB, for all the hard work that these guys do, this sort of thing can be few and far between.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Vets Vs. Devs: Duel to the Death Live on Pay-Per-View", <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And where can we pay to view this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Terrific posts - all the dev's, mappers, and contributors that made NS what it is really appreciate your kind words, and yes, even your concern over the future. I agree that they did a fantastic job and it's been an honor to work with them! I wish I could have made something actually cool and ingame, like a map or sprite or animation or skin or model or sound or gamecode. I am in awe of those who did...
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jun 2 2003, 07:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 2 2003, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wish I could have made something actually cool and ingame, like a map or sprite or animation or skin or model or sound or gamecode. I am in awe of those who did... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...but instead your the man who made the buggy installer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>Note from Flayra:</b> ...and was my right-hand man for many months, saving me tons of time and doing anything extra that needed getting done.
I respect, acknowledge, and second every word by SuB. This is not suckup, this is fact. The synthesis of this project culled by skill and imagination has offered a beautiful product. THANK YOU NS TEAM AND PLAYTESTERS!
<!--QuoteBegin--James H4xwell+Jun 2 2003, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (James H4xwell @ Jun 2 2003, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[...]For instance when I turn into the kharra, im not a human anymore. To me the humans look stupid and ugly. But when im on the Frotiersman, the aliens make me want to utilize the technology at hand and destroy them.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you considered being an actor? That sounds like talent to me. At least, try pen & paper roleplaying. You <i>might</i> be awed at.
Anyway, after reading three pages of posts I still haven't found anyone elaborating on <b>why</b> we whine. The problem is that we are like rich, spoiled kids. The more you get, the more you expect. And since we got ourselves a truly great mod here (hooray), we expect it to be so. Now over the months, we've seen NS going into a direction we don't want (omg, here goes the whining again), and for many of us, this has reduced the enjoyment we get from playing. It's like taking a toy away from a rich, spoiled child: We throw a <b>tantrum</b>. We <b>rage</b>. And that's why. Now, when you take the toy from the child, you can go two ways: either you give the toy back, thus stopping the tantrum, or you keep the toy, thus stopping the tantrum after a while when the child forgets about the whole matter (duration depends on level of spoiltness), or learns to do without the toy (i.e. learns to play with the balance issues (or even skulks learning to bite jp'ers out of the air?)). Keeping the toy would mean leaving the mod as it is, stopping further development. Giving the toy back would mean releasing 1.1. Thank God I have such forgiving, weak parents that can't stand my whining. Thank God they aren't trying to unspoil me. Thank God I will get my toy back!
<!--QuoteBegin---_Phoenix_-+Jun 2 2003, 06:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-_Phoenix_- @ Jun 2 2003, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...but instead your the man who made the buggy installer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I did create the desktop shortcut bug...
... which nearly 100 beta testers failed to catch for 2 months of use.
Hey, woah. Since it actually worked for us, and you borked the final release is OUR fault? And why didn't your hippy brain test it yourself? ^^
But yah, big props to everyone, except Monse, cause all he does is blame his errors on us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wanted to just say one thing here.... I love the dev/PT/Admin banter... this is why I've been hooked in NS.. the game is fun.. but the forums are better.... the community is great. Flayra, Devs, PTs, People of that all powerful group, "Members", you should all be proud. This Community is one of the best, most jovial, most welcoming, most "fun" i've ever been a part of.. KUDOS to all! I'd buy you all a drink... but I'm a perpetually broke college student...and I doubt anyone could buy everyone who deserves one a drink... hehe.. you all are awesome!!
SuBAusNS Forum AdminJoin Date: 2003-02-18Member: 13723Members
Yeh, these forums are great... a lot of interesting insight, chitter chatter, strategy discussion and just a general feel of activity and responsiveness from a passionate team.
Top stuff <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Comprox+Jun 2 2003, 10:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comprox @ Jun 2 2003, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey, woah. Since it actually worked for us, and you borked the final release is OUR fault? And why didn't your hippy brain test it yourself? ^^
But yah, big props to everyone, except Monse, cause all he does is blame his errors on us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And now you should all understand my forum title...
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
hehe, had been pondering that for some time.
but to continue on what Macguyvok said
some one pointed me over at NS before the release (I hd ;ooked at it multiple times but at that time wasn't a forum member).
This time I actualy poked my head in the forum, I read LAOT of posts, read the FAQs on both NS.org and RR and then read all of the stories from the frontline. And I was hooked, so I decided to post a topic trying to clear up a few Qs I had. One of the first people to reply to my post was Flay. From that point on I have become compleatly adicted <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
So again, Thanks to All the Dev team (even MonsE who has provided me with a steady place to post in the tech help forum "Yah the desktop icon is Borked, don't use it")
Again, thnak you all and good luck <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
To quote Flayra from the Dev forums, after he saw this thread:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great to see there are at least occasional people who "get" it! It's hard to take a step back and think about everything we've achieved, but it's good to do so occasionally!
It's good to know our efforts are appreciated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team of a hundred 'why I think such and such about NS sucks' posts. Thanks again guys.
Let's try frolicking by ourselves, see if it attracts him from the murky depths of the English workplace...
But seriously, although it does sound like a suckup, I will probably never stop playing NS - great job guys!
Imagine that, in forty years time all the Devs, PTs, Vets and anyone else still around getting together for a humongous NS tournament... maybe we could play retro matches of v1.0 and watch the self-spotting sieges and 6-round-clip gl's pwning some alien ***. <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lol. In 40 years we'll be playing NS 2043: The Kharaa Homeworld.... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Well, that or NS 2043:The Last Stand of Humanity. heh.
And yes, even us quiet forum lurkers appreciate you too Flay and company.
Great thread guys. Not just because it makes us feel all warm and fuzzy, but also because it offers a chance to think about the high-level process of making a game, and why we do that.
<b>Sling_Blade:</b> Squeal beat me to the punch. You have to remember, I'm criticized if I don't join servers and PT with everyone, but then I'm criticized for not taking reams of bug reports, griping and "that's so ***" literally every minute I'm on that server. It's hard for you to see this, and I fully appreciate that my fuse is short. I've been telling people for <b>over one year</b> not to report bugs to me in game and guess what occupies most of my time when I'm "playing"? Little do people realize that the bugs are painfully obvious to me as well, but instead of just being an annoyance, it's a bit of a jab also "oh you could've done that better, how could you be so sloppy". If you've noticed the amount of upheaval and problems this community has seen because of the Veteran program, I think it's fair to say that it's only been continued because I fully understand the value of you guys.
(I just read your second post). Please don't reprint text from the Veteran forum (ESPECIALLY out of context) or you'll be thrown out. You know the rules, now follow them. If you don't like how things are run around here, no one is forcing your to participate.
<b>Deacon:</b> Great post. This is something I had kind of forgotten about, in the recent shift in making mods that are as big or bigger then "legitimate" (which just means money-making as far as I can tell) games. Do keep in mind that we're not going to sacrifice NS to the popularity Gods any time soon, and all the changes in 1.1 and beyond are fully according to the vision, not to pandering. And hell yes, popularity is a consideration. A game with a small audience is probably a game that has a short lifetime, and is definitely a game with a small impact. Artists don't usually make art for art's sake, they want it to affect people, and be known and remembered.
Flayra, NS has got to be one of the most well known and played games on the web! It does better than most Retail games by players. The community is great and the Dev team Rules! I was woundering if you have any plans for a Half Life 2 Natural Selection? I say, why have this great game slowly die off due to new technoligy, port it over! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> But then I think about how awsome this game is, I have a feeling that this game will be to TETRIS of HL (no matter how low tech the game, its still played all the time).
Definately a big thumbs up from me and the guys n gal @ [Cult] here in the UK (damn, I've gotta start playing on our own server instead of wasting my time @ Roo's). Great game and great fun. Props to Flayra and the team.
And yes, I still play 1.04 and still enjoy it.
And I'm sure I'll enjoy 1.1 however it turns out. I for one trust the team to get the balance as right as it can be.
Flayra~ Sorry about posting the quote, it was actually from the Veteran irc channel, and I didn't realize that it was not already common knowlege. At any rate, I think you missed the point of my suggestion:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You have to remember, I'm criticized if I don't join servers and PT with everyone, but then I'm criticized for not taking reams of bug reports, griping and "that's so ***" literally every minute I'm on that server. It's hard for you to see this, and I fully appreciate that my fuse is short. I've been telling people for over one year not to report bugs to me in game and guess what occupies most of my time when I'm "playing"? Little do people realize that the bugs are painfully obvious to me as well, but instead of just being an annoyance, it's a bit of a jab also "oh you could've done that better, how could you be so sloppy". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure I don't need to point this out, as you obviously realize this, but people will complain no matter what you do. That is what I was talking about when I spoke of the negative aspects of the community. No matter how good a job you do, there will ALWAYS be more criticism (or at least seem that way, since it sticks in your mind) than compliments. This is why being highly visible and present in the community can be such a bad thing. For one thing, you just want people to leave you the hell alone when you are trying to play. So... don't play with your name! I totally understand how you feel, because I've had a small taste of it and I've known others in similiar positions as yourself. I was in a server with you one time, and I didn't say a word to you because I knew you just wanted to play. Others didn't understand that and probably never will. You just need to have a buffer between yourself and the community, so that you don't get disgusted and burn out. Have someone ELSE read the bug forums and maintain a list of bugs that are important. They aren't going to get offended reading the gazillion bug reports because it isn't their work that is being criticized. It will not only save you the time of reading through countless threads rehashing the same bugs, but it will also save your sanity a bit. Really... the same goes for all the forums. I know it is really hard to pull away, because you feel like you are "abandoning" the community. Or maybe you feel that we will think that you think you are too important to bother with us. Believe me... they'll get over it. Look around at any person in a position like yourself and you will see that they handle things just like this because otherwise they would be having the same problems you are. As NS gets more popular the situation is only going to become more difficult to handle. The good side of this is that there will be more people willing to help you, and more people you can delegate things too.
Anyway, I hope you'll try to lessen the load on yourself. You have an average of almost 11 posts a day... how many post do you read? Quite a lot I am sure. How much time do you spend reading these forums? There are a lot of things that you can do that others can't, but many people can read a forum like this and convey the important things to you. Or... just use that time to take a breather =P
(And yes, I realize the irony of me criticizing how Flayra is handling criticizing, but I haven't seen anyone else suggest this so at least it isn't repetitive)
SuBAusNS Forum AdminJoin Date: 2003-02-18Member: 13723Members
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jun 3 2003, 09:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 3 2003, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To quote Flayra from the Dev forums, after he saw this thread:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great to see there are at least occasional people who "get" it! It's hard to take a step back and think about everything we've achieved, but it's good to do so occasionally!
It's good to know our efforts are appreciated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team of a hundred 'why I think such and such about NS sucks' posts. Thanks again guys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> WOW... I forgot to check back with this thread.
Monse, thanks for passing that info on mate, it just heightened what I think about the NS community and the people behind it that much more. To know that there was attention paid to our thoughts about what you guys have done makes me feel "warm and fuzzy" too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team"... that really is the BEST thing I could have read, for it is EXACTLY this I was trying to achieve by starting the thread.
Once again, thankyou for being so in touch with the community, and thankyou for the positive affirmation that comes from knowing that speaking out about how much I love what you guys have done actually has a positive effect on you all... as positive affirmation is about all I can offer you guys for your hard work, it really does mean a lot.
Keep rocking our world guys, you're da best <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Jun 3 2003, 01:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Jun 3 2003, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For one thing, you just want people to leave you the hell alone when you are trying to play. So... don't play with your name! I totally understand how you feel, because I've had a small taste of it and I've known others in similiar positions as yourself. I was in a server with you one time, and I didn't say a word to you because I knew you just wanted to play. Others didn't understand that and probably never will. You just need to have a buffer between yourself and the community, so that you don't get disgusted and burn out. Have someone ELSE read the bug forums and maintain a list of bugs that are important. They aren't going to get offended reading the gazillion bug reports because it isn't their work that is being criticized. It will not only save you the time of reading through countless threads rehashing the same bugs, but it will also save your sanity a bit. Really... the same goes for all the forums. I know it is really hard to pull away, because you feel like you are "abandoning" the community. Or maybe you feel that we will think that you think you are too important to bother with us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I made a similar post (thanks for the <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> MonsE) about how although we have direct contact with the Devs, PTs, and Flayra himself, does not grant us the ability to demand and complain. I'm particularly disgusted (however not suprised) the way people act around Flayra when he plays NS, I too would have the same idea to just leave the server and get some bots and hope they aren't scripted to complain in the same ways. Sling is right, people will complain no matter what (Mainly "Why is there no sniper rifle!? I want AWP!" <- these people should stick to CS, its had the AWP since beta) but Flayra, you have to remember those people usually can't see how NS should be 'fixed' could severely hurt the game. There are a few people whos opinions on additions and subtractions of gameplay elements were rather excellent - and thats why 1.1 was made, the ones that could really work, most of the ideas I've seen in the forums I've seen in the changelog, as well as other awesome ones - and they are truly going to kick ****.
Flayra - I'm sticking to my guns on this game because I know you know what you are doing, I know the kind of work you are doing and how you're going about it - and [Insert Expletive here] do we appreciate it.
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say "SUYF" to people who want 1.1 now. 1.1 will totally blow your mind away - but not in its current state. Again, Flayra knows what he is doing and his Vet PT's will (in the end) pay off to such an extent you will crying for mercy that you even considered telling what Flayra should or shouldn't do with 1.1. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Jun 3 2003, 12:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Jun 3 2003, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm criticized if I don't join servers and PT with everyone, but then I'm criticized for not taking reams of bug reports, griping and "that's so ***" literally every minute I'm on that server. It's hard for you to see this, and I fully appreciate that my fuse is short. I've been telling people for <b>over one year</b> not to report bugs to me in game and guess what occupies most of my time when I'm "playing"? Little do people realize that the bugs are painfully obvious to me as well, but instead of just being an annoyance, it's a bit of a jab also "oh you could've done that better, how could you be so sloppy". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't worry, Flayra, if I have the opportunity to play with you some day, I'll make sure all the pub players shut up and just enjoy the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You shouldn't have to hide behind a fake name, or not play on pubs at all! You should play and ignore all the annoying people! If they bug you on voicecomm, just mute them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jun 3 2003, 09:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 3 2003, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To quote Flayra from the Dev forums, after he saw this thread:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great to see there are at least occasional people who "get" it! It's hard to take a step back and think about everything we've achieved, but it's good to do so occasionally!
It's good to know our efforts are appreciated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team of a hundred 'why I think such and such about NS sucks' posts. Thanks again guys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well after my break and ramping about the same topics - im ashamed to admit i said a few things in those sorts of topics - but all is changed from reading these topics + getting back into v1.04 again
Live on NS + Well said to [SuB] who started this topic with his very detailed "Thank you article" <-- Wish i got there first bud <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
As a contribution to NS im making NS_Aquaduct built upon a space station's water treatment deck (the hives are looking superb! I'll make a new topic with the screenshots later) Also contributing my league (advertised in my siggy) + Spending more of my free time on this great mod, helping out with the UKNS community being setup with connection to my league UKNSL
Hope this helps saying sorry to the dev team!
*sings* Thingggsssss can only get better!!!! Can only get BEttter!!! (if they werent already good now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
I'm sure I've posted something of this ilk before, but I think it's time I made my feelings known once more.
Natural Selection is a fantastic game.
I say "game" and not "mod", because NS has such high production values, and takes such a large step away from the direction that Half-Life takes, and indeed, all other HL mods that it warrants being called a "game". It's incredibly refreshing to see that people are thinking outside the box a bit when it comes to mods and aren't afraid to try something totally new (for Half-Life at least); NS's resource system and commander mode, for example, and the whole action FPS tied in with the RTS elements. It's a fantastic concept. And do you know what is better?
It works.
You had a great idea, and you went to great lengths to make sure that idea was fulfilled, and you got some great talent involved along the way. The mapping work for this mod - official and community - is some of the best mapping I have ever seen for the Half-Life engine, and indeed for many others.
The people who are busy complaining about the imbalance in 1.04 are forgetting one thing; it's still incredibly fun. There might be a few explotiable tactics evident, but I personally haven't seen them used in a bit, and I still manage to have fun, even when they are used, as do many. Whatever some people may say about the game being "unbalanced" or (this is fairly rare in my experience - an obvious good sign) "bad", it's still a great game; there are just fickle pople out there. And besides, there's nothing better or more atmospheric than seeing a lerk swoop down onto a jetpacking marine in refinery, and then all of a sudden watching his jetpack shut down as he plummets to the floor and collapses into a heap, as the lerk flies off (chuckling, if it's a really cinematic moment).
And that's something I've always loved about NS, the story telling aspect. Almost every game has parts that are fantastic story material, and the old "Tales From the Frontlines" thread is an absolute testament to that.
No matter how many people make claims that NS is "unbalanced" or that it "sucks", there will always be those of us that will love the game and remain truly dedicated to it, because what you have made is, at least in my opinion, the greatest videogame ever, and hopefully the number of people that feel that way will grow and grow.
Great job. I am looking forward to 1.1 with relish.
great game flay, hats off, all four of them <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
now to find a server <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Vets Vs. Devs: Duel to the Death Live on Pay-Per-View", <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And where can we pay to view this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
...but instead your the man who made the buggy installer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>Note from Flayra:</b> ...and was my right-hand man for many months, saving me tons of time and doing anything extra that needed getting done.
This is not suckup, this is fact. The synthesis of this project culled by skill and imagination has offered a beautiful product. THANK YOU NS TEAM AND PLAYTESTERS!
[edit]Sp.[/edit]
Have you considered being an actor? That sounds like talent to me. At least, try pen & paper roleplaying. You <i>might</i> be awed at.
Anyway, after reading three pages of posts I still haven't found anyone elaborating on <b>why</b> we whine. The problem is that we are like rich, spoiled kids. The more you get, the more you expect. And since we got ourselves a truly great mod here (hooray), we expect it to be so. Now over the months, we've seen NS going into a direction we don't want (omg, here goes the whining again), and for many of us, this has reduced the enjoyment we get from playing. It's like taking a toy away from a rich, spoiled child: We throw a <b>tantrum</b>. We <b>rage</b>. And that's why. Now, when you take the toy from the child, you can go two ways: either you give the toy back, thus stopping the tantrum, or you keep the toy, thus stopping the tantrum after a while when the child forgets about the whole matter (duration depends on level of spoiltness), or learns to do without the toy (i.e. learns to play with the balance issues (or even skulks learning to bite jp'ers out of the air?)).
Keeping the toy would mean leaving the mod as it is, stopping further development. Giving the toy back would mean releasing 1.1. Thank God I have such forgiving, weak parents that can't stand my whining. Thank God they aren't trying to unspoil me. Thank God I will get my toy back!
Yes, I did create the desktop shortcut bug...
... which nearly 100 beta testers failed to catch for 2 months of use.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But yah, big props to everyone, except Monse, cause all he does is blame his errors on us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Top stuff <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But yah, big props to everyone, except Monse, cause all he does is blame his errors on us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And now you should all understand my forum title...
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
but to continue on what Macguyvok said
some one pointed me over at NS before the release (I hd ;ooked at it multiple times but at that time wasn't a forum member).
This time I actualy poked my head in the forum, I read LAOT of posts, read the FAQs on both NS.org and RR and then read all of the stories from the frontline. And I was hooked, so I decided to post a topic trying to clear up a few Qs I had. One of the first people to reply to my post was Flay. From that point on I have become compleatly adicted <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
So again, Thanks to All the Dev team (even MonsE who has provided me with a steady place to post in the tech help forum "Yah the desktop icon is Borked, don't use it")
Again, thnak you all and good luck <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great to see there are at least occasional people who "get" it! It's hard to take a step back and think about everything we've achieved, but it's good to do so occasionally!
It's good to know our efforts are appreciated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team of a hundred 'why I think such and such about NS sucks' posts. Thanks again guys.
Please never think that these forums represent 100% of how people feel about the mod.
Where's Roobubba when you need him? This sounds like a damn good excuse to frolic.
Let's try frolicking by ourselves, see if it attracts him from the murky depths of the English workplace...
But seriously, although it does sound like a suckup, I will probably never stop playing NS - great job guys!
Imagine that, in forty years time all the Devs, PTs, Vets and anyone else still around getting together for a humongous NS tournament... maybe we could play retro matches of v1.0 and watch the self-spotting sieges and 6-round-clip gl's pwning some alien ***. <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes, even us quiet forum lurkers appreciate you too Flay and company.
<b>Sling_Blade:</b> Squeal beat me to the punch. You have to remember, I'm criticized if I don't join servers and PT with everyone, but then I'm criticized for not taking reams of bug reports, griping and "that's so ***" literally every minute I'm on that server. It's hard for you to see this, and I fully appreciate that my fuse is short. I've been telling people for <b>over one year</b> not to report bugs to me in game and guess what occupies most of my time when I'm "playing"? Little do people realize that the bugs are painfully obvious to me as well, but instead of just being an annoyance, it's a bit of a jab also "oh you could've done that better, how could you be so sloppy". If you've noticed the amount of upheaval and problems this community has seen because of the Veteran program, I think it's fair to say that it's only been continued because I fully understand the value of you guys.
(I just read your second post). Please don't reprint text from the Veteran forum (ESPECIALLY out of context) or you'll be thrown out. You know the rules, now follow them. If you don't like how things are run around here, no one is forcing your to participate.
<b>Deacon:</b> Great post. This is something I had kind of forgotten about, in the recent shift in making mods that are as big or bigger then "legitimate" (which just means money-making as far as I can tell) games. Do keep in mind that we're not going to sacrifice NS to the popularity Gods any time soon, and all the changes in 1.1 and beyond are fully according to the vision, not to pandering. And hell yes, popularity is a consideration. A game with a small audience is probably a game that has a short lifetime, and is definitely a game with a small impact. Artists don't usually make art for art's sake, they want it to affect people, and be known and remembered.
It does better than most Retail games by players.
The community is great and the Dev team Rules!
I was woundering if you have any plans for a Half Life 2 Natural Selection?
I say, why have this great game slowly die off due to new technoligy, port it over! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But then I think about how awsome this game is, I have a feeling that this game will be to TETRIS of HL (no matter how low tech the game, its still played all the time).
I LOVE NS
And yes, I still play 1.04 and still enjoy it.
And I'm sure I'll enjoy 1.1 however it turns out. I for one trust the team to get the balance as right as it can be.
[Cult]Creep.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You have to remember, I'm criticized if I don't join servers and PT with everyone, but then I'm criticized for not taking reams of bug reports, griping and "that's so ***" literally every minute I'm on that server. It's hard for you to see this, and I fully appreciate that my fuse is short. I've been telling people for over one year not to report bugs to me in game and guess what occupies most of my time when I'm "playing"? Little do people realize that the bugs are painfully obvious to me as well, but instead of just being an annoyance, it's a bit of a jab also "oh you could've done that better, how could you be so sloppy". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure I don't need to point this out, as you obviously realize this, but people will complain no matter what you do. That is what I was talking about when I spoke of the negative aspects of the community. No matter how good a job you do, there will ALWAYS be more criticism (or at least seem that way, since it sticks in your mind) than compliments. This is why being highly visible and present in the community can be such a bad thing. For one thing, you just want people to leave you the hell alone when you are trying to play. So... don't play with your name! I totally understand how you feel, because I've had a small taste of it and I've known others in similiar positions as yourself. I was in a server with you one time, and I didn't say a word to you because I knew you just wanted to play. Others didn't understand that and probably never will. You just need to have a buffer between yourself and the community, so that you don't get disgusted and burn out. Have someone ELSE read the bug forums and maintain a list of bugs that are important. They aren't going to get offended reading the gazillion bug reports because it isn't their work that is being criticized. It will not only save you the time of reading through countless threads rehashing the same bugs, but it will also save your sanity a bit. Really... the same goes for all the forums. I know it is really hard to pull away, because you feel like you are "abandoning" the community. Or maybe you feel that we will think that you think you are too important to bother with us. Believe me... they'll get over it. Look around at any person in a position like yourself and you will see that they handle things just like this because otherwise they would be having the same problems you are. As NS gets more popular the situation is only going to become more difficult to handle. The good side of this is that there will be more people willing to help you, and more people you can delegate things too.
Anyway, I hope you'll try to lessen the load on yourself. You have an average of almost 11 posts a day... how many post do you read? Quite a lot I am sure. How much time do you spend reading these forums? There are a lot of things that you can do that others can't, but many people can read a forum like this and convey the important things to you. Or... just use that time to take a breather =P
(And yes, I realize the irony of me criticizing how Flayra is handling criticizing, but I haven't seen anyone else suggest this so at least it isn't repetitive)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great to see there are at least occasional people who "get" it! It's hard to take a step back and think about everything we've achieved, but it's good to do so occasionally!
It's good to know our efforts are appreciated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team of a hundred 'why I think such and such about NS sucks' posts. Thanks again guys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WOW... I forgot to check back with this thread.
Monse, thanks for passing that info on mate, it just heightened what I think about the NS community and the people behind it that much more. To know that there was attention paid to our thoughts about what you guys have done makes me feel "warm and fuzzy" too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team"... that really is the BEST thing I could have read, for it is EXACTLY this I was trying to achieve by starting the thread.
Once again, thankyou for being so in touch with the community, and thankyou for the positive affirmation that comes from knowing that speaking out about how much I love what you guys have done actually has a positive effect on you all... as positive affirmation is about all I can offer you guys for your hard work, it really does mean a lot.
Keep rocking our world guys, you're da best <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
For one thing, you just want people to leave you the hell alone when you are trying to play. So... don't play with your name! I totally understand how you feel, because I've had a small taste of it and I've known others in similiar positions as yourself. I was in a server with you one time, and I didn't say a word to you because I knew you just wanted to play. Others didn't understand that and probably never will. You just need to have a buffer between yourself and the community, so that you don't get disgusted and burn out. Have someone ELSE read the bug forums and maintain a list of bugs that are important. They aren't going to get offended reading the gazillion bug reports because it isn't their work that is being criticized. It will not only save you the time of reading through countless threads rehashing the same bugs, but it will also save your sanity a bit. Really... the same goes for all the forums. I know it is really hard to pull away, because you feel like you are "abandoning" the community. Or maybe you feel that we will think that you think you are too important to bother with us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I made a similar post (thanks for the <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> MonsE) about how although we have direct contact with the Devs, PTs, and Flayra himself, does not grant us the ability to demand and complain. I'm particularly disgusted (however not suprised) the way people act around Flayra when he plays NS, I too would have the same idea to just leave the server and get some bots and hope they aren't scripted to complain in the same ways. Sling is right, people will complain no matter what (Mainly "Why is there no sniper rifle!? I want AWP!" <- these people should stick to CS, its had the AWP since beta) but Flayra, you have to remember those people usually can't see how NS should be 'fixed' could severely hurt the game. There are a few people whos opinions on additions and subtractions of gameplay elements were rather excellent - and thats why 1.1 was made, the ones that could really work, most of the ideas I've seen in the forums I've seen in the changelog, as well as other awesome ones - and they are truly going to kick ****.
Flayra - I'm sticking to my guns on this game because I know you know what you are doing, I know the kind of work you are doing and how you're going about it - and [Insert Expletive here] do we appreciate it.
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say "SUYF" to people who want 1.1 now. 1.1 will totally blow your mind away - but not in its current state. Again, Flayra knows what he is doing and his Vet PT's will (in the end) pay off to such an extent you will crying for mercy that you even considered telling what Flayra should or shouldn't do with 1.1. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Don't worry, Flayra, if I have the opportunity to play with you some day, I'll make sure all the pub players shut up and just enjoy the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You shouldn't have to hide behind a fake name, or not play on pubs at all! You should play and ignore all the annoying people! If they bug you on voicecomm, just mute them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great to see there are at least occasional people who "get" it! It's hard to take a step back and think about everything we've achieved, but it's good to do so occasionally!
It's good to know our efforts are appreciated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even a single topic like this undoes the low morale in the dev team of a hundred 'why I think such and such about NS sucks' posts. Thanks again guys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well after my break and ramping about the same topics - im ashamed to admit i said a few things in those sorts of topics - but all is changed from reading these topics + getting back into v1.04 again
Live on NS + Well said to [SuB] who started this topic with his very detailed "Thank you article" <-- Wish i got there first bud <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
As a contribution to NS im making NS_Aquaduct built upon a space station's water treatment deck (the hives are looking superb! I'll make a new topic with the screenshots later)
Also contributing my league (advertised in my siggy) + Spending more of my free time on this great mod, helping out with the UKNS community being setup with connection to my league UKNSL
Hope this helps saying sorry to the dev team!
*sings* Thingggsssss can only get better!!!! Can only get BEttter!!! (if they werent already good now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Natural Selection is a fantastic game.
I say "game" and not "mod", because NS has such high production values, and takes such a large step away from the direction that Half-Life takes, and indeed, all other HL mods that it warrants being called a "game". It's incredibly refreshing to see that people are thinking outside the box a bit when it comes to mods and aren't afraid to try something totally new (for Half-Life at least); NS's resource system and commander mode, for example, and the whole action FPS tied in with the RTS elements. It's a fantastic concept. And do you know what is better?
It works.
You had a great idea, and you went to great lengths to make sure that idea was fulfilled, and you got some great talent involved along the way. The mapping work for this mod - official and community - is some of the best mapping I have ever seen for the Half-Life engine, and indeed for many others.
The people who are busy complaining about the imbalance in 1.04 are forgetting one thing; it's still incredibly fun. There might be a few explotiable tactics evident, but I personally haven't seen them used in a bit, and I still manage to have fun, even when they are used, as do many. Whatever some people may say about the game being "unbalanced" or (this is fairly rare in my experience - an obvious good sign) "bad", it's still a great game; there are just fickle pople out there. And besides, there's nothing better or more atmospheric than seeing a lerk swoop down onto a jetpacking marine in refinery, and then all of a sudden watching his jetpack shut down as he plummets to the floor and collapses into a heap, as the lerk flies off (chuckling, if it's a really cinematic moment).
And that's something I've always loved about NS, the story telling aspect. Almost every game has parts that are fantastic story material, and the old "Tales From the Frontlines" thread is an absolute testament to that.
No matter how many people make claims that NS is "unbalanced" or that it "sucks", there will always be those of us that will love the game and remain truly dedicated to it, because what you have made is, at least in my opinion, the greatest videogame ever, and hopefully the number of people that feel that way will grow and grow.
Great job. I am looking forward to 1.1 with relish.
Regards,
Insane.
I second that.
now to find a server <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If so, me too. How much do I love this game/concept? Uhhh. A lot. That's how much.....