Can We Stop With The Balance Posts?
Agkelos
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13243Members
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13243Members
<div class="IPBDescription">pretty plz</div> Hay guys. Well, I am going to make my oppinion quick and concise.
Can we stop with the balance posts? God, one does get frustated after the 999999th balance post people make. For example, random poster #2452 says that elect damage is too high, and says that skulk hp and armor should be upped. Another says they should get dropped weapons stay back in. And another says Flayra could fix something by doing something else. Are you guys playtesters? Have you been in games where you seen the result of this balances and changes in 1st hand? <b> HAVE ANY OF YOU? </b>
Lets think of logic, Why would you post your "2 cents" and your oppinion on how it should be changed, when you know 10 more guys will say the same thing. Do you think your oppinion will change the development? Thats what playtesters are for. Theres a right to free oppinion, well, I think in this forums, but I do not think it condones spam of the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Is it necesarry? That every new changelog, 10 threads every day appear with people posting <i> their 2 cents </i> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> . Then a new changelog comes, and they realize nothing they said happened. Well, except some rare exceptions. All the ideas you guys post, we already thought of them. Seriously, why dont we create <b> ONE </b> thread focused on your own oppinions and 2 cents, instead of having lots and lots of threads that take space from other threads that are actually enjoyable?
Maybe next time, ask yourself this question before you post,
"Will my oppinion be taken into consideration, are there high chances Flayra replies personally to me? Have the pters thought of this?"
With regards,
#cri.stian <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Can we stop with the balance posts? God, one does get frustated after the 999999th balance post people make. For example, random poster #2452 says that elect damage is too high, and says that skulk hp and armor should be upped. Another says they should get dropped weapons stay back in. And another says Flayra could fix something by doing something else. Are you guys playtesters? Have you been in games where you seen the result of this balances and changes in 1st hand? <b> HAVE ANY OF YOU? </b>
Lets think of logic, Why would you post your "2 cents" and your oppinion on how it should be changed, when you know 10 more guys will say the same thing. Do you think your oppinion will change the development? Thats what playtesters are for. Theres a right to free oppinion, well, I think in this forums, but I do not think it condones spam of the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Is it necesarry? That every new changelog, 10 threads every day appear with people posting <i> their 2 cents </i> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> . Then a new changelog comes, and they realize nothing they said happened. Well, except some rare exceptions. All the ideas you guys post, we already thought of them. Seriously, why dont we create <b> ONE </b> thread focused on your own oppinions and 2 cents, instead of having lots and lots of threads that take space from other threads that are actually enjoyable?
Maybe next time, ask yourself this question before you post,
"Will my oppinion be taken into consideration, are there high chances Flayra replies personally to me? Have the pters thought of this?"
With regards,
#cri.stian <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Now, if one was to make a graph of the different opinions, you'd find that your not alone, not only that, but you'll also find that there are multiple Veterans and Playtester's who feel the same in one way or another.
So, for now, just sit back, relax, chat it up, talk about how much you think NS 1.1 is going to blow every mod out of the water purely on all the new, innovative features coming.
;)
Now, if one was to make a graph of the different opinions, you'd find that your not alone, not only that, but you'll also find that there are multiple Veterans and Playtester's who feel the same in one way or another.
So, for now, just sit back, relax, chat it up, talk about how much you think NS 1.1 is going to blow every mod out of the water purely on all the new, innovative features coming.
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I second that my buddy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> .
Balance posts as a whole are not needed, sure, if you want to talk about ideas, or would like to talk about taking certain ideas further that's ok, do it in the appropriate forum where it belongs. However, balance suggestions can only be based on experience, something that all members lack in 1.1.
Now, Excuse me for making the comments I have, while I'm apathetic about people talking about it because I can understand why. However, I will defend the perspective and rationale of Developers, Playtesters and Veterans anytime, any place, and for any reason.
then agian, i am drunk.. what do i know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorry if I come off a little aggressive.
And as ub3rbr0k3 said... THANK YOU for finally making this thread. This should solve most of the problems. If I see just <i>one more</i> post about how Onos at 1 hive is unbalanced, I will go insane.
We could call it the "Trash Bin" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
What argument ?
To some people discussing NS balance as a member is annoying, ignorant and frustrating. I see no argument.
The problem with Balance posts is that
A.) There's no foundation for any claims otherwise then comments from Beta Discussion.
B.) Any suggestion or conclusion is purely speculative
C.)It digresses into the same subjective comments everytime
Let me show you an example in which were trying to determine the validity of any conclusion for "balance" made by any non-staff or non-veteran members.
Information is being sought over whether "object A" makes a serious impact on gameplay, and the positives and negatives of it, and the overall gameplay "balance". Conclusions and feel are to be determined by two groups, Non-Players and Players.
Non-Players are playing an obselete version, where which there is practically no grounds for familarity between the two rather than the overall theme. They have 0 hours spent playing. They're opinions are based information from the "Players" group.
Players are playing the newest, most up to date build, any conclusions or determinations would be most relevant from this group. Many players have over 100 hours spent playing. They're opinions are based on facts from experience.
See what I mean? I really hate to even say anything about this, much less critisize any group of people or demean them in anyway. But if you wanna talk about it, I'll talk.
Ever stop to think that some of us might want to see 1.1 balanced? And hence when we hear accounts of marine bases falling like papier mache and oni running rampant we try to make a few suggestions to <b>help you guys out</b>. No, we're not playing the 1.1 builds. We ARE reading the 1.1 forums and changelogs, and when we see comments about imbalance some of us try to find a solution to the problem.
I'll agree that a post saying "OMG ONOS AT TEH ONE HIVE NERF TEH ALIENS GG NO RE!1!!!!!1111" is pointless, but a post saying "How about making the onos attack order: bite, devour, stomp, charge in order to promote teamwork and stop 1 hive oni from destroying entire marine teams by themselves" is constructive. Or would you think that players on the lowly forum rank of "members" are benieth your contempt?
i said sort of the same thing.. but in a nicer way...
balance posts = venting
people are frsutrated and impatient to get their hands on 1.1
they hear about this and that and they supply their opinion.
( I myself did this when gorge sucking was scrapped...I vented )
sure their opinion is not completely grounded in fact or experience but...
it is an opinion and they are allowed that.
those who are offended by said opinions...ignore them.
the likelyhood of thm stopping because you said "SUYF" is highly unlikely.
it is about the same as saying "SUYF" to someone on the street talking too loudly.
be good
be patient
wait for 1.1
The first reason being that half of the threads get so off topic that a new thread has to be created just to get coherent responses and not get lost in some random chat between two people talking about something that has NOTHING to do with the original topic. The problem solver to this would be for those people using the GD as a personal chat room to move it to PMs.
The second reason is that almost 50% of those posts are from newbies to the forums. I've seen about a gazillion new posts by people who have a postcount total of 1. There seems to be a large influx of newbies to the forums and it seems most of the newbie posts are either incoherent or repetitive because they know nothing about the game yet still feel the impulse to post their opinion. This is kinda tricky, because we want new players, yet don't want to alienate them by telling them they're retarded because they posted something that was discussed last week or something that was brought up 10 times already and dropped. I think this one is just a learning tool where they'll have to learn one way or another the unwritten rules of the forums.
Another reason is because people are interested in the game they play. They are interested and they want to provide feedback. Some of them are people who don't understand the gameplay or don't know how to read the beta forum that was opened up for us. Others want to suggest things and ask questions. For me, and about 16,000 other people, we can't access the beta forums. We can't post our questions, ask about changes or suggest new strategies and tactics in the special forum. Trust me, I'd be posting right up in there suggestions, strats, and questions if I could but we're restricted because a couple people messed it up for everybody by posting crap. We might not be playing the game but through reading of posts, talking in IRC and reading up and playing through 1.04, we can have an UNDERSTANDING of game mechanics and what's going on. That said, not many can grasp an understanding of the current game balance while they aren't playing it (heck some people can't get an understanding WHILE they're playing it, i.e. "Marines always lose!" threads for 1.04).
Yes, I would say about 90% of the new threads created on 1.1 game balance suck and have nothing useful, but don't discount all of them when there's still that 10% meat.
As a last note, you stated people should stop posting on 1.1 and post about how good the game is, and how much you can't wait till it comes out. Personally, my interest in the game would drop like a rock if all the front page posts were continued posts of how great Flayra is and what a cool game this is. There's only so much you can say before you start repeating yourself or sounding like you're sucking up. The "this game is great" threads are just...boring. There's no discussion in them, it's a suckage fest. So even after all those 1.1 threads, I'd rather still have a million "1.1 Onos is the sux" than even one more "Flayra iz soooOOoo great! Let me wash my face in his feces because he is purer than lik3 g0d!" threads.
Take it as you will <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
balance posts = venting
people are frsutrated and impatient to get their hands on 1.1
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Excuse me? Have I ever said I wanted to get 1.1 right this second? I love 1.04 just fine, sure 1.1 would be nice but I honestly don't care. I'm not venting: any thread I comment in about 1.1 balance is my genuine concern for 1.1 balance.
My point is, your ideas 99% of the time wont be heard. We have currently 100+ people playtesting 1.1.
Veterans, representing the clan community plan, looking a way for it to be more skilled and balanced.
Playtesters, mostly pub players, looking a way for it to be fun and balanced.
The merger between this 2 groups bring a lot of ideas into play. Come on people, 100+ persons posting their ideas and thoughts. They surely have thought of what you thought and posted it already. Ryo, if we didnt ask for your help, and now we that we say that you should stop it, why continue?
Anxiety and impatience brings to venting. Just find another way to do it, instead of spamming the forums. Thanks.
By all means, don't post unless you have a well thought out idea that isn't obvious. That would just make for more spam.
Of course, there are also limits to what I know, there are also limits to what cri.tical knows, there are also limits to any other vets or PTs knowledge, and due to this, we often see heated discussions in Beta Information.
The problem is however that <i>your</i> knowledge is based on <i>our</i> incomplete knowledge, which means that you can, by definition, only know less about 1.1s balance than we can. Now see how often vet or PT suggestions are being realized, although both groups have the vastly superior information source of the actual game, and ask yourself - is posting suggestions for a game you have only heard of really going to be productive?
By this, I do not want to tell you to shut up, on the contrary - it is your good and important right to voice your opinion about the course NS is heading to. Do however not assume that Flayra will inevtiably draw the conclusions you want him to draw out of this feedback, and for the love of god, members, playtesters, and veterans, understand that <i>we are not the designers of Natural Selection</i>. That job is already filled.
Of course, there are also limits to what I know, there are also limits to what cri.tical knows, there are also limits to any other vets or PTs knowledge, and due to this, we often see heated discussions in Beta Information.
The problem is however that <i>your</i> knowledge is based on <i>our</i> incomplete knowledge, which means that you can, by definition, only know less about 1.1s balance than we can. Now see how often vet or PT suggestions are being realized, although both groups have the vastly superior information source of the actual game, and ask yourself - is posting suggestions for a game you have only heard of really going to be productive?
By this, I do not want to tell you to shut up, on the contrary - it is your good and important right to voice your opinion about the course NS is heading to. Do however not assume that Flayra will inevtiably draw the conclusions you want him to draw out of this feedback, and for the love of god, members, playtesters, and veterans, understand that <i>we are not the designers of Natural Selection</i>. That job is already filled. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said.
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Oh sorry My Lord. Now I require the permission of a jumped-up clanner from America to post in a forum. Excuse me while I go and write an elegant hand-written letter to Flayra begging him to let me write some posts in these forums.
Oh wait a sec. I DON'T NEED YOUR PERMISSION. I DON'T NEED YOU TO ASK ME TO POST.
I stand by what I said earlier. You seem to assume we're all morons or something because we don't have "veteran" next to our name. Well I've been playing NS since day 1 and I tend to think that I know a little bit about the way the game works. And GUESS WHAT!? A lot of other members have been playing since day 1 as well! GASP! Maybe we KNOW something about the GAME WE LOVE. Hence, when we see you mighty gods amongst men complaining about balance issues we sometimes see fit to chip in with a comment that might HELP THE DEVS BALANCE THE PATCH! We arn't forcing you to read it. You have your own special forum which we prolitariat scum are not fit to even gaze upon so why not stay in there. Leave the elitist bull faeces at the door and understand we're trying to help out. if you don't like it, fine. I'm amazed you Kings amongst men even bother to stoop to the level of clicking on "general discussion".