ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
edited June 2003
I have 2 suggestions to make it so onos are harder to get, AND the aliens are still hive-independant when it comes to evolutions.
Method 1: Make ONOS be tied to the number of resource towers, not hives. For example, you can only go onos if your team has at least X amount of BUILT res towers. Or maybe X percentage of the RTs on thi map. So for example if you needed 50% of RTs to go onos you'd need more to go onos on ns_nothing than on ns_eclipse. Maybe add an upgrade for each res tower that cost 20 res or something (this is of course subject to testing to get the exact number) to make it unseigable. This forces the aliens and marines into a a battle for territory, unless of course the aliens can just finish off the marines without onos. 3 hive fades+lerks+gorges still = badass aliens.
Method 2 (and the one I think is better if it can be coded in): Introduce somethin like the BLIGHT system of the Undead of Warcraft3. Gorges can only build on surfaces already INFESTED by the bacteria. RTs and hives can of course be built without infestation. Hives spread infestation to a fairly large area, and RTs spread infestation to a degree say...the RT in triad will infest all of triad, or maybe a bit larger. Other structures will also spread the infestation to a smaller degree much like the way blight in warcraft3 does. There will also be a new structure on the aliens side which I'd call an 'Infestation chamber' whose sole purpose is to generate blight within a radius (probably a bit smaller than the area infested by an RT). Infestation chambers or ICs can also be build on nomral ground, are naturally immune to seige cannons, and have around the health of an 1.04 alien RT. they would cost maybe cost a bit less than an RT, and have maybe 2/3 the build time of an RT. Marine structures are can still be built on infestation, but the buid time is raised (maybe by 10 or 20%) Keep on reading for the pertinent part...
Ok, now on the the point concerning the onos. Onos are only available if the aliens have a certain percentage of the map covered with infestation. This way, again the teams will have to battle it out for TERRITORY. Every inch is important, grounds gained is always a victory, unlike 1.04. Flayra himself wants the games to be like this, to be fought over territory. No longer will Horseshoe be just forgotten territory, something to get if you have the spare time and cash, because it can potentially let the aliens get ONOS! Under this sytem maybe make fades unavailable also until another percentage (which is of course less than what is needed for the onos) of ground has been infested. The resource model will probably have to be worked out againw ith this new system, but I like it because it forces NS to be about TERRITORY!
Oh yeah, also remove charge for onos. Onos are ok speed-wise except for charge, because charge just lets the onos run out of danger immedaitely. It's damned near impossible to kill an onos (1.04 experience) even when we had 3 HP/HMG firing at the onos at the same time.
I think it ceased being original after about the 10th time it was suggested <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Aegeri+Jun 18 2003, 01:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 18 2003, 01:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it ceased being original after about the 10th time it was suggested :p <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahh well, that's the risk you take not being a forum addict. ;)
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Martigen+Jun 17 2003, 04:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Martigen @ Jun 17 2003, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, I can <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. Total Annihilation > *. Some of the best ideas you see in RTSes today (everything from true LOS to building and movement queues) came from TA. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes TA owns.
The way I see it, WC3 is like a smaller, more tactical game, wheras SC is more a larger, more economic game.
WC3 is more about terrain, creeps, and how you react to them and your enemies. SC is more purely about big armies duking it out and getting more troops to attack ASAP. I personally love both, although I must say I only play ladder maps on SC anymore. If I had to pick one though..... I'd probably pick WC3, especially with the Expansion pack comming out soon.
Neither is fundementally worse than the other, merely different. If someone would be so kind as to explain the flaws with the current WC3 build, I would be more than happy to listen and debate <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
I like SC, WC3, and many other RTS games. I don't really prefer a single style of RTS, so I sample them all <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
TA doesn't suck but uhh, lets be serious, its not really comparable to starcraft. Having semi-innovative graphics doesn't make a game good. Starcraft could've been stick figures and it'd still be the best RTS ever. Why do you think its still being played all over the world professionally with millions of dollars in prizes being awarded each year?
As for war3, its a complete joke, I don't really see anything to dicuss. If you can't see why war3 sucks then I doubt I could really explain it to you, and I don't really feel like spending time on a big write up. But, just a quick overview of why it sucks would be: heros, creeps, upkeep, peons-on-gold cap, random items, random damage. War3 did a very good job of what blizzard set out to accomplish - making money by catering to the lowest possible denominator. There isn't a single gamer I even slightly respect that plays or likes war3. (Unless maybe they're hiding it because beating newbs is some kind of a guilty pleasure for them and they're embarrassed?)
hrm i played WC3 for maybe an hour and just got bored as fast as you can say " " .... There was nothing special about it imo.
Back on topic. I'm conserned someone on the second or third page wrote that if the marines dont rush the hives in the first 2 or 3 minutes they will lose. That sort of thing scares me. I mean way to hang out on a limb. It's like a relocation you can fudge up or you can be a winner n'd go home and fu** the prom queen. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> From the PT experience how do you guys start out? Is it always immediate rush or lose? I thought that the aliens got slow res intake now so surely the marines don't have to worry to much when starting out?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Unless maybe they're hiding it because beating newbs is some kind of a guilty pleasure for them and they're embarrassed?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting, if you are so brilliant, go to www.replayers.com and request a matchup with MadQFrog. I'd be fascinated to see that.
Comments
Method 1: Make ONOS be tied to the number of resource towers, not hives. For example, you can only go onos if your team has at least X amount of BUILT res towers. Or maybe X percentage of the RTs on thi map. So for example if you needed 50% of RTs to go onos you'd need more to go onos on ns_nothing than on ns_eclipse. Maybe add an upgrade for each res tower that cost 20 res or something (this is of course subject to testing to get the exact number) to make it unseigable. This forces the aliens and marines into a a battle for territory, unless of course the aliens can just finish off the marines without onos. 3 hive fades+lerks+gorges still = badass aliens.
Method 2 (and the one I think is better if it can be coded in): Introduce somethin like the BLIGHT system of the Undead of Warcraft3. Gorges can only build on surfaces already INFESTED by the bacteria. RTs and hives can of course be built without infestation. Hives spread infestation to a fairly large area, and RTs spread infestation to a degree say...the RT in triad will infest all of triad, or maybe a bit larger. Other structures will also spread the infestation to a smaller degree much like the way blight in warcraft3 does. There will also be a new structure on the aliens side which I'd call an 'Infestation chamber' whose sole purpose is to generate blight within a radius (probably a bit smaller than the area infested by an RT). Infestation chambers or ICs can also be build on nomral ground, are naturally immune to seige cannons, and have around the health of an 1.04 alien RT. they would cost maybe cost a bit less than an RT, and have maybe 2/3 the build time of an RT. Marine structures are can still be built on infestation, but the buid time is raised (maybe by 10 or 20%) Keep on reading for the pertinent part...
Ok, now on the the point concerning the onos. Onos are only available if the aliens have a certain percentage of the map covered with infestation. This way, again the teams will have to battle it out for TERRITORY. Every inch is important, grounds gained is always a victory, unlike 1.04. Flayra himself wants the games to be like this, to be fought over territory. No longer will Horseshoe be just forgotten territory, something to get if you have the spare time and cash, because it can potentially let the aliens get ONOS! Under this sytem maybe make fades unavailable also until another percentage (which is of course less than what is needed for the onos) of ground has been infested. The resource model will probably have to be worked out againw ith this new system, but I like it because it forces NS to be about TERRITORY!
Oh yeah, also remove charge for onos. Onos are ok speed-wise except for charge, because charge just lets the onos run out of danger immedaitely. It's damned near impossible to kill an onos (1.04 experience) even when we had 3 HP/HMG firing at the onos at the same time.
I may repost this in the S&I forum.
note: Edited for some spelling corrections.
Make the 500 hp the ending point with 3 hives. 300hp to start with making him slightly tougher than a fade, +100 per additional hive.
So that would be:
Starting: 300HP
2 Hives: 400HP
3 Hives: 500HP
So you could still get an onos, it would still be a bit tougher than a fade, but it won't be as powerful as it could be had you have taken a hive.
It's probably already been suggested but, hey, you never know.
Ahh well, that's the risk you take not being a forum addict. ;)
yes TA owns.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The way I see it, WC3 is like a smaller, more tactical game, wheras SC is more a larger, more economic game.
WC3 is more about terrain, creeps, and how you react to them and your enemies. SC is more purely about big armies duking it out and getting more troops to attack ASAP. I personally love both, although I must say I only play ladder maps on SC anymore. If I had to pick one though..... I'd probably pick WC3, especially with the Expansion pack comming out soon.
Neither is fundementally worse than the other, merely different. If someone would be so kind as to explain the flaws with the current WC3 build, I would be more than happy to listen and debate <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
-Masa- ([OSS-r]Masamune)
As for war3, its a complete joke, I don't really see anything to dicuss. If you can't see why war3 sucks then I doubt I could really explain it to you, and I don't really feel like spending time on a big write up. But, just a quick overview of why it sucks would be: heros, creeps, upkeep, peons-on-gold cap, random items, random damage. War3 did a very good job of what blizzard set out to accomplish - making money by catering to the lowest possible denominator. There isn't a single gamer I even slightly respect that plays or likes war3. (Unless maybe they're hiding it because beating newbs is some kind of a guilty pleasure for them and they're embarrassed?)
Back on topic. I'm conserned someone on the second or third page wrote that if the marines dont rush the hives in the first 2 or 3 minutes they will lose. That sort of thing scares me. I mean way to hang out on a limb. It's like a relocation you can fudge up or you can be a winner n'd go home and fu** the prom queen. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> From the PT experience how do you guys start out? Is it always immediate rush or lose? I thought that the aliens got slow res intake now so surely the marines don't have to worry to much when starting out?
Interesting, if you are so brilliant, go to www.replayers.com and request a matchup with MadQFrog. I'd be fascinated to see that.