The Anatomy Of Ns_bast
juho
Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12965Members
Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12965Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Havent figure it yet out. have you?</div> ns_bast is a great map but there is something I havent yet figured out.
It's the layout. There are airlocks, huge engines, Observation bridge which looks like a starship bridge to me, tram tunnel and a refinery. Makes no sense to me. To the details:
Then Engine Room is connected to the rest of the base at the Main Aft Junction where there are also two airlocks. The entrance to engine room is coverred with a big blast door. I'm not sure, but sometimes I think that engine room is itself a smaller ship which is just docked to the rest of the map throught the main aft junction (which are really just airlocks).
There are two airlocks in Main Aft junction. The other isn't in use, and the other is the Starboard Airlock which heads to docking bay and marine base. Why there are an airlock to the docking bay? One reason would be that when there are ships coming the docking bay must be depressurised so there is a need for airlock (The starboard airlock)
The fact that there are Refinery, Feedwater control, Atmospheric Processing and Water Treatment areas in the map, gives me an idea that the map is a permanent structure in surface of some planet. The Tram tunnel could head for some other places in the planets surface. The Drilling Shaft also fits into this picture.
But what about the Observation Bridge? It looks as a spaceship bridge to me. You can see starts from the window and the layout looks jus like that the bridge could be in front of some small ship (and the Engine Room could be the engines of that ship). But that doesn't fit with the rest of the layout.
I'm not critising the map. I'm just played it too much to start thinking the layout more depthly. I'd like to hear what else thinks about the layout and the purphose of all those areas. =)
- jtm
It's the layout. There are airlocks, huge engines, Observation bridge which looks like a starship bridge to me, tram tunnel and a refinery. Makes no sense to me. To the details:
Then Engine Room is connected to the rest of the base at the Main Aft Junction where there are also two airlocks. The entrance to engine room is coverred with a big blast door. I'm not sure, but sometimes I think that engine room is itself a smaller ship which is just docked to the rest of the map throught the main aft junction (which are really just airlocks).
There are two airlocks in Main Aft junction. The other isn't in use, and the other is the Starboard Airlock which heads to docking bay and marine base. Why there are an airlock to the docking bay? One reason would be that when there are ships coming the docking bay must be depressurised so there is a need for airlock (The starboard airlock)
The fact that there are Refinery, Feedwater control, Atmospheric Processing and Water Treatment areas in the map, gives me an idea that the map is a permanent structure in surface of some planet. The Tram tunnel could head for some other places in the planets surface. The Drilling Shaft also fits into this picture.
But what about the Observation Bridge? It looks as a spaceship bridge to me. You can see starts from the window and the layout looks jus like that the bridge could be in front of some small ship (and the Engine Room could be the engines of that ship). But that doesn't fit with the rest of the layout.
I'm not critising the map. I'm just played it too much to start thinking the layout more depthly. I'd like to hear what else thinks about the layout and the purphose of all those areas. =)
- jtm
Comments
juho is completely right with his opinion. the fact that I once asked a friend "hm, its a starship, isnt it?" - "******* ist that a starship you moron!"
the same problme is with some other maps out there. its called "wrong use of textures".
when creating a starship I only would use textures that look like metal or artifical substances (like rubber, plastic, glass). in bast there are some textures that look like crete so it looks more like a massive structure. some textures in the ns wad also look kinda "crety" for my eye, although they are called "*metal*"
thats why bust looks like patchwork. there are some cool spaceship ambience locations but the refinery, feedwater (water in a ship is possible but "feels" unrealistic) and some corridoors dont fit into this theme. but tanith is worse. although nearly all textures are metal it looks more like a stationary facility on a moon or something. at the end its simply a texturing problem to think about...
What you guys have to bear in mind is that the UCC Bast is a mining ship. That's why it has an onboard refinery and other such trappings of a mining installation.
I don't agree that having Water Treatment and Atmospheric Processing facilities on a map would make it more likely to be a ground-based installation though. I mean, the people on a spacecraft need something to breathe, don't they? The same goes for Feedwater, there are plenty of uses for water on a spacecraft - hydraulics, coolant, drinking water, and so on.
The Bast is obviously meant to be a large ship, hence the tram tunnel for easier access to different parts of the ship.
I don't think it's a texture problem at all, that some people don't think it's a spacecraft. The texturing in the map has always conveyed to me the impression of a spacecraft, especially in Refinery and Main Aft Junction.
Why would there be a deep drilling hole inside a spaceship? Ok. we all have seen starwars and there are some wery deep areas in the ships but still. bast isn't a deathstar!
There are some wery spaceship like areas near marinestart and then there are some base structure style areas like refinery and feedwater.
Athmo, feedwater, water treatment and refinery actually fits together pretty good (the water tunnel etc). It's not about that. it's just that there are two kind of world in the map.
- jtm
And If i remember right tanith is an research center on a planet surface. It is just high above ground so its kind of secured.
- the vent system connects engine to athmo. There are no airlocks in that way. (but the marine start which is some sort of loading bay has airlocks in every vent and entrance out from it) If there are no airlocks, then it must be a static part of the rest of the map (or at least with athmo).
- There are just the engine room. no crew quaters, bridge etc. are those just left out from the map?
- and wth. is that "control bridge" just next to refinery?
- jtm
Point out to me the textures that you are reffering to, then. Otherwise I'm inclined to disagree with you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and think about the water thing: shurely there is a massive need on water on a spaceship. but not like bast will tell us! the water in spaceships is allways stored in specific reservoirs. for 2 causes: 1. when the gravitation control is out of order the water would "fly" through the whole ship. 2. now what temperature is in the space? the water has to be boiled in order to use it (as drinking water) and coolant liquids are always in locked circuit. so the feedwater seems to be a kind "swimmingpool" made for aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Take another look at the architecture of Feedwater next time you're in it. Theres broken pipes, and the water is pouring out of them into the room. There's no swimming pool, and that water-filled "vent" at the bottom is just an access tunnel that's been filled with water from leaks on both sides of it. This can be seen by the fact that there's a ladder on one of the walls leading down to it. The room's just a "pipe room" sort of thing, but infestation has caused the pipes to break, filling parts of it with water.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->refinery: I know noone cares but spaceship sizes will be limited because of severall reasons. but why the hell is the area of the refinery so huge when its inside a spaceship? there is nothing but some storage containers, some pipes, the melter and the hive...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why can't it be huge? Remember that the Bast is meant to be a <i>big</i> ship. Remember that the map is based on the Nostromo. If you've seen the movie, think of the refinery that it had in tow. That thing was <i>huge</i>. I don't see why it can't be a big place, considering the size of the machinery that has to be in it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I actually don't think that bast is a spaceship. It refinery, feedwater and the drilling hole doesn't fit in there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Feedwater's jsut a pipe room, as I explained before, it can easily be on a spacecraft. And there can surely be a refinery onboard a ship, processing the results of the most recent mining operation, ready for delivery at the other end.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why would there be a deep drilling hole inside a spaceship? Ok. we all have seen starwars and there are some wery deep areas in the ships but still. bast isn't a deathstar!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, consider that it's a mining ship. I see no reason that it couldn't have an electromagnetic drill onboard, perhaps so that it can carry out certain mining operations independently of any planetside installation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well what I understand in the bast there is starship landed to a some sort of planet where the kharaa have infected the facility areas and then later infested the starship engine room, after some time the frontiersmen arrive to check out the starship and what happened to it. The starship and the facility are different areas.(refinery,tram,atmo processing must be on the planet surface(underground) no way in a starship).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe it did pick up the bacteria planetside, but it had hit space before the infestation started to spread. The backstory (I don't remember where that is, though) says that the ship had gone off course and transmissions had stopped. Pretty hard for a spacecraft to go off course planeside, hehe. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
what drilling shaft? did i miss something all the time i played bast?!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Observation bridge which looks like a starship bridge to me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
take it as a controll room for the refinery... thats what it is!
what drilling shaft? did i miss something all the time i played bast?!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Observation bridge which looks like a starship bridge to me<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
take it as a controll room for the refinery... thats what it is!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The drilling shaft's the big shaft with a bridge going over it, and the the bridge is the bit just beyond it. Here, let me show you some pictures:
<u>EM Drill Shaft:</u>
<img src='http://www.readyroom.org/ns_maps/relic25/ns_bast0012_FULL.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<u>The Bridge:</u>
<img src='http://www.readyroom.org/ns_maps/relic25/ns_bast0011_FULL.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
But, yes, it is a ship.
what window?
If your talking about the bridge, well, you cant see anything out there.
I know its a ship, but I still always imagine it as some type of ore minining facility...more of a factory.
Its certianly the most atmospheric of all NS maps, and imo captures the overall feeling of what I imagined NS would be before it came out.
If I were to over analyze the map, Bast seems like a series of "epic" locations patched together to make for the best layout...at least thats how my map is turning out to be <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But also thanks to the aforementioned twists, turns and passages, it's also the hardest map to learn. Don't believe me? Jump on a public server and tell your team to meet you in N-Corridor. Get a lot of "where?" 's, "WTH?" 's, and "j00 r st00p1d d00d" 's? Me too. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Much of the texturing and the custom navigational signs help with this problem to a degree, but it's really not a very straight-forward map design. Now I suspect that some of this has to do with the sheer variety of environments in the map (I don't think any of the other official maps come close), but taking the lesson of "Make your maps really boring" from this would not be good.
Me, I find myself constantly caught between making my map "realistic" and keeping things interesting. NS inside the space shuttle wouldn't be very exciting, but the shuttle's layout would be quite easy to understand, compared to Bast.
My personal preference for layout is closer to Nothing. The main routes are easy to understand, for the most part, but there's a lot of other stuff in there, passages, "secret" areas, etc. Enough to allow a beginner (or intermediate)to have a prayer of navigating it, but not so basic it loses its appeal to veterans. Like Othello, I guess.
Wow, I kinda got off-topic... Oops...
well i guess its the vent at atmospheric processing, isnt it?!
How exactly is that an important or indeed valid reason for not liking a map?
O_o
do you see the little smily? do you know what it means? maybe for you its not important but <i>I dont think</i> that you are the only person on this planet...
because bast is allways the startmap you will play it more often no matter what (dont say mapchange or I will hand out some parts of you... some BODYPARTS <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> ) like the maps tanith and nancy that are sowhat far at the end of the mapcycle (praise god for this!) I get bored of bast because I see it every day. its not a bad map but there are also some things that are crafted bad. personally I like the detailed structures (ramp at marinestart, machines and pipes in the north of feedwater) but some things are pretty evil.
btw: why does nobody plays custommaps? I heared that some people dont like them but I cant understand why. I guess its connected with the wish to win. "how am I supposed to win when I have no idea where the hives are?"
... and maybe because some maps are <b>jetpack-rush secure</b>...
Though if I see a server with a custom map I've never heard of I will chose this one preferrably, even if it has only 3 players. The point is, I almost never see any servers with ping<150 (I'm on DSL <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and custom maps.
As most of us I can't stand missile command and siege005 any longer. I've played these more than the official maps by now, because they are on every server's mapcycle <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
my friend and i satt down whatching alien (kinda love thath movi <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
and he jumpt upp coupel a times yelling "bast!"
then he stole my computer , started a server whiht ns_bast , ran around and showd me whath he ment and he was right
alot of it lock like alien
Not to mention nuclear power plants usually have feedwater systems (Perhaps even always, I'm not exactly a nuclear engineer, or power plant designer), and i wouldn't doubt it that perhaps spacecraft of the future are powered by nuclear fission or prehaps even fusion.
Not to mention nuclear power plants usually have feedwater systems (Perhaps even always, I'm not exactly a nuclear engineer, or power plant designer), and i wouldn't doubt it that perhaps spacecraft of the future are powered by nuclear fission or prehaps even fusion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude, don't say stuff like fission and fusion in these forums, you're hurting my brain <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
lighten up dude...join in the conversation, have fun.
It takes approximatly 0 seconds to <i>not reply</i> and about 10 seconds to type a reply and still say nothing usefull.
'nuff said
Even so, slight anomalies in the layout do stand out, namely the strange position of the bridge/observtion deck (can't remember exactly what its called). If you have seen Alien you will notice how this room looks exactly like the bridge of the Nostromo. Whether the black area outside the window on Bast (seen in above screenshot) is space, is anyones guess, but a looking at the minimap it appears look right over the refinery.
My guess is that the blackness is supposed to be space, and any other layout anomalies can be put down to 'artistic licence' on the part of Relic25.
why are you still reading this? go check it out!
and bast is my favorite map