"fun Maps"

Baltzaar · June 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">...</div> It's quite a tragic to see, that every custom map server, only plays unserious maps! I think it's very sad for those who are serious mappers and make great NS maps. It reminds me of counter strike and all those damn aim_maps. Stop making bad fun maps! It only shows that you are a n00b mapper! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

Maus · June 2003

Well to be honest, by and large the best maps are the standard seven. There are some <i>cracking</i> custom maps out there, and you'll no doubt find them on good servers mixed in with the main seven. Maybe there'd be a market for customs-only servers in the states, but I don't see any more than two or three custom maps on any given server in the UK unless they're "fun" servers.

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · June 2003

Shut your trap! funmaps are great. I have spent many hours playing them. I also like serious maps, like atomic mass, but funmaps have a more fast paced gameplay style (for the most part) and nobosy says that you have to play them at all! If you don't like them lhen I won't try to convince you otherwise. If people did not like them, then server ops would not put them on and no1 would play them even if they did. And this post is better off in the server op forum any way. I hust laugh at the n00b mappers comment. Many serious mappers make fun maps just to waste time. So stop bitching and just leave the servers when they put on fun maps.

:edit: because forums censor stupid things

Shadowics · June 2003

Well Baltzaar, you may be right. To be completely honest I am fairly new at mapping, in 3D that is. I sometimes did any mapping for HL, NS is the first. Now the first map I started on, with the help of a friend none the less, was ns_wildfire. ns_wildfire is not a 'fun' map, when it's finished it could possibly qualify as an official map. That, however, is exactly the point - <i>when it's finished</i>. We've been working on wildfire for a few months already (in our spare time, but anyway) and it's no where near completion. So what happens? you work on the same map for a long time trying to get that one room to work just right, or the elevator to move just right, and you start getting bored. So then you hear an interesting idea for a simple map, so you take a break from the big map you're working on and do a 'fun' map. That's how it worked for me at least, and that where ns_dark came from. And doing it helped me with wildfire too.

The only reason it might seem like every custom server plays unserious maps is because alot of the custom maps out there are unserious. Not because the mappers are a bunch of loosers, because 'fun' maps don't require as much time and effort as serious map.

P.S. I've sometimes played CS so I've sometimes played an aim_map either, whatever that is.

:edit: LMAO!! The forums censored where I said "n_e_v_e_r" and replaced it with "sometimes"

esuna · June 2003

Fun maps are all well and good for fun. So what's the problem? If you don't like playing those maps, don't play them. Don't connect to servers cycling them. Just look for a server playing quality maps in the NS style as opposed to the "fun" ones.

As to "fun" maps. They're all, well, very poorly designed, poorly textured. But +DAMN+ are they fun. Was playing on a server yesterday with ns_nomblizkikko4 and ns_pillbox_final on. They're poor maps, admitedly, from a mappers perspective, but they're great fast paced games, which is what it's all about, isn't it?

To recap, if you don't like the map, don't play it, find somewhere that plays the maps you want.

Or start your own server.....

Maveric · June 2003

n_ever say n_ever = sometimes say sometimes ... WTH? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

anyways, fun maps are just that; FUN MAPS. (for the most part)

If they are not made to be serious, they should not be taken seriously! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Dubbilex · June 2003

sometimes. Hmmmmm.....

point?

To tell you the truth, I don't really play funmaps. I'm really too lazy to download them. But you gotta admit-Ollj's teamdeathmatch maps are inventive, to say the very least. And have you ever tried Boat_season in CS? It's got some truly hardcore boat action. Classic stuff.

DFA_Haplo · June 2003

Ill agree that the fun maps are flooding the market.

And Shadowics hit it right on the head:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shadowics)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
That, however, is exactly the point - when it's finished. We've been working on wildfire for a few months already (in our spare time, but anyway) and it's no where near completion. So what happens? you work on the same map for a long time trying to get that one room to work just right, or the elevator to move just right, and you start getting bored.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

NS maps are very time consuming and can get very tedious. I know that there are a lot of serious maps in the works and soon many of them will be released. My major complaint is there is no way to tell a "fun map" apart from a serious map very easily. I hate fun maps and have to spend time downloading all kinds of maps just to weed through them and find the serious ones. They need somekind of prefix or suffix To set them apart from the serious maps. The one thing I do like about fun maps is that I find its "mostly" the impatient people that play them. Usually people that make bad marines in a serious game. So more power to the fun maps to keep a better enviroment on my server.

Hypergrip · June 2003

"Fun Map" normaly describes a map with a different setting than the "original" gameplay has.. a different goal or different mechanisms.

<b>In most cases "fun map" just has become a synonyme for "very poor mapping"!</b>

There are hundrets of people out there saying "Yay, I'll make a map for NS", after some attempts realizing it take quite some time and work and so just think "Let's just call this crap a fun map and people won't judge hard".

There ARE real "Fun Maps" out there, but most "so-called fun maps" were just bad, poor looking and unbalanced/unplayable.

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · June 2003

Most fun maps start out with a gimmick. And mappers try to make the maps balanced, but it is not allways so easy. That is why there are different versions of fun maps out there. Missilecommand for example has gone from team to team in balance, it is way unbalanced, but people still like to play it. Why? because it is fun. There are many failed fun maps, and there are some good fun maps. Just as there are failed serious maps and good serious maps.

Carbon14 · June 2003

My main dislike of funmaps would have to be that I haven't seen any yet that display any sort of mapping talent..

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · June 2003

Who gives a :bleep:! while working on a map that requires skill you get bored. when people get bored you get fun maps. I made ns_tree because I was bord of ns_congo. I took a break and made ns_tree to just mess around. What maps have you made Carbon 14?

Carbon14 · June 2003

NS Tree was actually the first funmap I say that looked kinda cool <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
As for mapping I am still working on <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=28006&hl=machiga&st=15' target='_blank'>NS_Machiga</a>, There are a couple of old screens <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=28006&hl=machiga&st=15' target='_blank'>here</a> if you want to have a look. I know its hard to make a map, it takes a lot of time, I just refuse to degrade any sort of reputation that I might have (or not) by making such a map. Instead of making a funmap, I just tend to make a random room or two when I am bored, or make a section of map in Hammer with insanely high polycounts just for the fun of it.

To be honest I haven't even looked at most recent posts about funmaps though.

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · July 2003

That does look kinda cool. I do know of the painstakingly long process of making a serious map. That is why I made ns_tree. And I think now, with Ollj's new system of gameplay that "funmaps will be able to have their own rules and work corectyl, the way the mappere intended. I do love ns_teamdm

DEADscott · July 2003

Well its like this, our server stays full because of the fun maps. I know that some mappers get mad when they spend months and months working on a map that no one will play. It dosnt matter if you spent a year working on it, and its the best LOOKING map ever made. If the players dont have FUN playing it, they wont like it. Hence the resentment. You got to look at what the public wants. Fun, thats why we play games. Alot of mappers must think, "But the textures! The sound and kool affects! This is the best map ever!" But as far as gameplay goes its the same old thing, just another boring map.

Last weekend I ran just siege005 and siege006 for 24 hours. The server was full for most of the 24 hours. The public loves those maps. Why? Because they are fun to play.

Think your a great mapper? Got the textures and particle system aced? Use your talents to make a map thats FUN to play first, then put you mapping skills to use and make it look good. I guarantee if you can do that your map will be a hit and make it into alot of server rotations, including ours.

Youve got to decide who your making maps for, Flayra or the NS players, because they dont want the same kind of maps. Want your map in 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.3 or you want your map to be like the Sieges, played all the time, everywhere. Ive seen 24/7 siege servers, but I havent seen a 24/7 Bast server.

Ollj is a great mapper in my opinion. Complex9 is one of the best LOOKING map Ive ever seen. But the map of his most requested on our server is teamdeathmatch. Why? Because its not like the other 100 maps that have 3 hives, 1 marine start and a bunch of rooms and halls between them. Its totally different, the gameplay is fun and exciting! The first time we ran his beta version it had alot of bugs and somethings just didnt work. But the public loved it because it was a blast to play!

Look, what Im trying to say is first make sure your map is fun, fast paced and has something unusual about it. Something that will grab hold and shake up a 16 year olds mind and attention span. Then make it look pretty. Youll be happy and the players that you all make maps for will be happy.

Just try to understand why most of the public rather play in a bland 2 room box instead of your great looking, "took me 6 months to finish the marine start" map. Its the FUN factor!

Flame on...........................but its the truth.

Mouse · July 2003

Personally I don't map for the satisfaction of knowing that people are playing my map. I just map because I saw it as a viable way in to the industry. And because of this I made a vow <b>NEVAR</b> to make a 'funmap'; even if I made it to the highest quality, I would still look upon it as a 'blemish' in my resume.

As for my thoughts of the current state of fun maps, I present to you my setinfo in #naturalselection
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>"Now how many sides does a box have... ah, 4" *releases ns_carboardbox*
"F*ck, it's squares that have 4 sides. Boxes have 6 sides" *releases ns_carboardbox_b2*
"oh crap, it needs to be hollow" *releases ns_carboardbox_b3* "WTH!?! leak?!" *releases ns_carboardbox_b4*
"DAMN! I forgot to add spawn points" *releases ns_carboardbox_b5*
"Hrmm, no textures.. Meh, they will sometimes notice" *releases ns_carboardbox_Final*</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Make of that what you wish.

CheesyPeteza · July 2003

Fun maps are usually small. It doesn't take long to download it from the server. That's why servers run them. Also they are fun.

SoBe_Lemonade · July 2003

Amazing post {DEAD}scott

I haven't read a more insightful and true post like that, besides my own of course *cough*. So true, so true. Some funmaps really are dumb tho...played with the right people any map CAN be fun, but the right mix of people and map WILL make the best and most popular servers (not to be confused...best and most popular that is) you will see. Just because a server runs de_dust all day doesn't make it the BEST map for CS. Gets old. Thats what de_dust2 is for right? =P

Anyways, I'm gonna start making funmaps just to learn how to get the basic functions of mapping down, so when HL2 comes out i'll have some experience. Fun man! It's what games are about, like ya said.

Shadowics · July 2003

I think I've figured out what the source of the problem is here - no one knows what a 'fun map' is. That is to say, everyone has their own defination of what a 'fun map' is. Lets see if I can make a list of them shall we...

1) A fun map is a map in which very little effort was put into the making of. [Mouse]

2) A fun map is a map that was made for the player's enjoyment, even if some people don't like it. [scott]

3) A fun map is a map with a special gimmick or fast-paced gameplay, rather than just being a layout, so that it is fun even though it may be unbalanced. [Gimpy]

4) A fun map is the type of map made by someone who has little mapping talent. [Carbon]

5) A fun map is a map that was done poorly because the mapper didn't put enough effort into it. [Hyper]

6) A fun map is a map that is fun to play, even if it's poorly made, and that's all that counts. [esuna]

7) A fun map is a map that the mapper makes for fun to take a break from the hard work of making a serious map. [Myself]

8) A fun map is a map that is dumb and was made by a n00b mapper. [Baltzaar]

Now, maybe if we could all make up our minds as to what etly a 'fun map' is and draw lines someplace, then we could actually argue over whether fun maps are good bad or dumb or whatever.

SoBe_Lemonade · July 2003

fun
n.
1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure.
2. Enjoyment; amusement: have fun at the beach.
3. Playful, often noisy, activity.

map
n.

1. A representation, usually on a plane surface, of a region of the earth or heavens.
2. Something that suggests such a representation, as in clarity of representation.
3. Mathematics. The correspondence of elements in one set to elements in the same set or another set.
4. Slang. The human face.
5. Genetics. A genetic map.

Well, a "fun map" seems to me (from the dictionary) to be a representation on a plane surface (in this case in HL's engine) that is a source of enjoyment.

Maybe to you, you do NOT get enjoyment out of these "fun maps".

"No-Talent Map" to mean a map in where the maker has none.
"Anger Management Map" to be a map where the maker needs to relieve stress.
"Idiot Map" in where the maker is a complete retard, knowing nothing of balance, fun, making maps, or otherwise, at least, in your opinion.
"Fun Map", a map that is fun to make, play, and host.

Can't we all agree? A post where you have to redefine the english language generally isn't worth the time of day, eh?

Baltzaar · July 2003

I think i can draw a parrallell to starcraft...
All the skilled players play laddermaps, and all n00bies play use map settings maps, i think people that play funmaps were beaten to hard in normal games and went ovver to funmaps. Funmaps might be good training, but i dont understand how people can play such ****...

Fun maps all break the alien athmosphere in NS, and i dont like it...
They destroy all the game, there is no reality in that ****, the serious maps could almost exist. (not because NS is so real, but...)

SoBe_Lemonade · July 2003

Must disagree.

First of all, I dunno where you get off saying starcraft players who play Use Map Settings in essence "can't handle" the ladder stuff. I haven't ever played ladder, don't ever WANT to play ladder. All lame zerg rushes etc... The only thing I played was regular melee with my friends or Use Map Settings, because i was interested in MAP MAKING.

If you compare Use Map Settings in Starcraft to ns, that might be accurate. It's merely variety, and has nothing to do with lacking in any respect to real compitition. Have you ever considered the possibility that some people prefer to pub with a fun map and tourny with a real team? Going off insulting the ability of people based on what map they play is bordering on bigotry.

Use Map Settings Rulez

[edited the ne\/er] i cant believe i have to edit a post to show the word ne\/er. i understand the reasoning behind it, but its obviously flawed if i can't convey a natural idea across without it. Guess its "not ever" for now.

quazilin · July 2003

Well well, there are lots of "fun" maps out there. And I have only tested few and played them and I can´t really say that they were fun but they were something different. The only thing I dont´t accept that they are called "fun" maps. Yes there are lots of people who think they are fun but there are people who think they are not in anyway.

I think the real fun maps are the ones made for NS gameplay with atmospheric rooms/hallways made with creativity and style. If you don´t like them and think they are not fun at all, you are playing/mapping the wrong game.

These fast made "fun" maps are just something that does not last long. You play them few times you notice that there is alvvays the same style of play and it gets boring.

Actually I have made one "fun" map for reguest and it was only made for testing how high chamber tower is possible to make. The room was maximum highness in hl engine so there was some people who liked to play lerk fights in the top and some other people telling admin to change map back to tanith etc. Really it was only test map but some people just enjoyed having 1on1 fights there with onos lerk and skulk etc.

Lt_Gravity · July 2003

ok. I think "socalled fumaps" suck! ns has its strategic value, its scary ambience, great mapping. funmaps have nothing out of this.
best example my just released betamap ns_seconds. we played it yesterday and its really hard stuff, even 3 vs 3 took forever till one team could win some ground. I liked the "oohhh!"s "cool!"s and "great!"s but their was one problem: it was A CRAP! the map looks pretty cool but the playability tends to 0! and this is not a problem of missing vents, its a problem of overall layout. so I decided to take the good parts and create a COMPLETE map out of it. now I have 3 hives, severall hallways and some cool lightning... but this doesnt make a map <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> and even if it takes forever to finish it (I have NO time for mapping atm)... and that is the attitude of mappers that want to achieve their personal goal. A KICK **** COULD-BE-OFFICIAL MAP!!! and not this stupid "ns_lookwhatIcreatedin1hour". but at the end it isnt possible to stop this fload of newbie "afforts"...
btw: there is a cool custommapserver out there. you guys rarely read other threads than yours, right? -=NGG=-Templers?home LOW pings only PW:nostromo|62.93.201.6:27300
the title says its all.

<a href='http://www.ngg-central.de.vu' target='_blank'>*** www.ngg-central.de.vu ***</a>

Insane · July 2003

I personally can't stand fun maps. Why? Because it isn't NS, it's not how NS was intended. You might say, "Oh, it's for a <i>break</i> from NS, to wind down and have fun!!". Well, frankly, if I wanted a change, I'd go and play DoD, or HLDM. And I also happen to turn to NS when I want to have fun. People seem to have been forgetting that NS as it was intended is, in fact, fun.

If someone's bored or want a break from making a serious map, I really don't see why anyone would actually want to make ns_IvomitedonVHEandthisiswhathappened and then actually release it, going through several "betas" because they forgot to include marine spawn points. If someone's bored, why don't they make a random concept hallway, or try out a new style? I really don't see the point, or indeed the boredom alleviating potential in making a large box with hives and a CC, and then actually releasing it for people to play. It's like so many people don't seem to take any sort of pride in what they release. I've certainly never seen the "fun" in making such a map, or playing it.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Something that will grab hold and shake up a 16 year olds mind and attention span.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I'd just like to point out here that I'm sixteen. I'm going to refrain from being insulted or anything by the implication that my attention span is so short that I find killboxes or most of these other "gimmicks" highly amusing, simply because it's not true. A map that grabs my attention and "shakes it up" is likely to be a map with high production values, a huge atmosphere factor, and so on. In short, a good, fun, playable and good-looking map. If my intention is to grab the community at large's attention I am far more likely to create a map that looks good, rather than making a sophisticated box.

If you feel the need to play in a drab map consisting of two large boxes, about 3 textures and sourceless lights, in the place of a good, balanced NS map, and the reason being that it's more "fun", you are really honestly playing the wrong game. NS is all about strategy and atmosphere and I find it odd why people would so quickly forsake these things, or why they wouldn't turn to a game much more suited to these sorts of creations.

I think, however, that one of the main reasons that "fun" maps get up my nose (apart from the fact that idiots keep voting missilecommand onto Nano when I am trying to have a good game) is that the mapping forum has largely become saturated with them. In the days before release, especially when I had just arrived on the forums it was - for me at least - a much happier place. Almost all of the threads were people posting shots of their maps (a frequent occurrence) and there was always excellent feedback from the community's more experienced mappers and the maps were largely of a pretty high standard. I really loved to look into the mapping forum of an evening and browse through the wonderful new creations people were showcasing. Also, "fun" maps didn't really exist back then. Nowadays it's a different story. Most of the threads are about fun maps in a way, and every other thread seems to be someone releasing his latest box, or odd gimmick, and these maps seem to go through an insane amount of public betas for such simple creations. I guess I just miss the older days, and I'm still shocked at what little production value seems to go into most of these maps, and also how quickly people lap these up.

Lt_Gravity · July 2003

wow... insane look at my post. its the short version for people that have no time to read yours <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

DEADscott · July 2003

Insane your are in the minority of NS players, accept that fact or the game will move forward with out you. You are already sounding like a dinosaur. You miss the "old days"

Insane · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ({DEAD}scott @ Jul 1 2003, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Insane your are in the minority of NS players, accept that fact or the game will move forward with out you. You are already sounding like a dinosaur. You miss the "old days" </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That is ridiculously far from the truth. The game will move on without me because I support NS with serious custom maps the way they were meant to be? I seriously doubt that, unless NS suddenly goes the way of "fun" maps, which is <i>not</i> going to happen.

As far as accepting that I'm in a minority goes, I'm well aware of the fact that many people play "fun" maps. Even if I wasn't, my stance on the matter isn't really going to end up with me being left behind.

As a side point, what excactly is wrong with me missing older times?

Xzilen · July 2003

Dude, perhaps you should actually READ SOME OF THE TOPICS here.

Two servers, myself included, have professed ourselves to be SERIOUS custom map servers. I have 3 in rotation, Grien, Atomicmass21 (soon to update to 27) and Rampage. You can also vote for plenty more.

Unfortunely, I don't get nearly enough traffic to make this worth while. If you can get yourself and some friends to show up, that would be amazing. I need more regs willing to play custom maps :-p

Xzilen · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ({DEAD}scott @ Jul 1 2003, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well its like this, our server stays full because of the fun maps. I know that some mappers get mad when they spend months and months working on a map that no one will play. It dosnt matter if you spent a year working on it, and its the best LOOKING map ever made. If the players dont have FUN playing it, they wont like it. Hence the resentment. You got to look at what the public wants. Fun, thats why we play games. Alot of mappers must think, "But the textures! The sound and kool affects! This is the best map ever!" But as far as gameplay goes its the same old thing, just another boring map.

Last weekend I ran just siege005 and siege006 for 24 hours. The server was full for most of the 24 hours. The public loves those maps. Why? Because they are fun to play.

Think your a great mapper? Got the textures and particle system aced? Use your talents to make a map thats FUN to play first, then put you mapping skills to use and make it look good. I guarantee if you can do that your map will be a hit and make it into alot of server rotations, including ours.

Youve got to decide who your making maps for, Flayra or the NS players, because they dont want the same kind of maps. Want your map in 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.3 or you want your map to be like the Sieges, played all the time, everywhere. Ive seen 24/7 siege servers, but I havent seen a 24/7 Bast server.

Ollj is a great mapper in my opinion. Complex9 is one of the best LOOKING map Ive ever seen. But the map of his most requested on our server is teamdeathmatch. Why? Because its not like the other 100 maps that have 3 hives, 1 marine start and a bunch of rooms and halls between them. Its totally different, the gameplay is fun and exciting! The first time we ran his beta version it had alot of bugs and somethings just didnt work. But the public loved it because it was a blast to play!

Look, what Im trying to say is first make sure your map is fun, fast paced and has something unusual about it. Something that will grab hold and shake up a 16 year olds mind and attention span. Then make it look pretty. Youll be happy and the players that you all make maps for will be happy.

Just try to understand why most of the public rather play in a bland 2 room box instead of your great looking, "took me 6 months to finish the marine start" map. Its the FUN factor!

Flame on...........................but its the truth.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
The point is, too many people are too LAZY to learn the GOOD maps. This will hurt the game in the long run and soon we'll see some maps just become the next de_dust and de_aztec and NEVER be stopped playing while some of the best maps are left to rot :-\

Xzilen · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (quazilin @ Jul 1 2003, 04:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well well, there are lots of "fun" maps out there. And I have only tested few and played them and I can´t really say that they were fun but they were something different. The only thing I dont´t accept that they are called "fun" maps. Yes there are lots of people who think they are fun but there are people who think they are not in anyway.

I think the real fun maps are the ones made for NS gameplay with atmospheric rooms/hallways made with creativity and style. If you don´t like them and think they are not fun at all, you are playing/mapping the wrong game.

These fast made "fun" maps are just something that does not last long. You play them few times you notice that there is alvvays the same style of play and it gets boring.

Actually I have made one "fun" map for reguest and it was only made for testing how high chamber tower is possible to make. The room was maximum highness in hl engine so there was some people who liked to play lerk fights in the top and some other people telling admin to change map back to tanith etc. Really it was only test map but some people just enjoyed having 1on1 fights there with onos lerk and skulk etc.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
AMEN!

Nocomblizkiko was fun. The first four times I played it. It was nice for a quick change, but I dread playing the map now, it just bores me to death. It lacks the depth and scary feeling of NS *sighs*

Amen to your post once again, Amen.

"fun Maps"

Comments