While I can understand his train of thought, I think it stems from having poor aim.
If I say so myself, I have very good aim and before the aliens come standard equipped with carapace, I tend to get twice as many kills as deaths. Non-cara skulks are truly easy to take down, as long as you're careful about it (watch the ceilings, turn up your volume and listen closely for footsteps, pick a comfortable sensitivity and use it until you can track a running skulk perfectly, etc.)
In 2.0, I'm concerned that with less D as the first chamber, it'll be a total slaughterfest on pub servers. Add in a couple weapons and armour upgrades and the aliens will have to resort to pack and surprise tactics to survive - both of which pub noobs rarely do as aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--MagiTek+Jul 15 2003, 11:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MagiTek @ Jul 15 2003, 11:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Four guys shoot at the skulk peeking around the corner, but since nobody's checking the rear two skulks just run up and start chomping. Or maybe three guys all run into a room in a tight little cluster, and nobody thinks to check the right corner. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet, if this was a pub game instead of a clan game, you'd be praising the fact that 3 marines were actually in the same room as each other :)
And yes i know you're directly referring to 1 particular incident in the US vs. EU game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If one side consistently wins because the other side isn't using their head tactically, that does not suggest a racial imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That wasn't my quote, try this one:
If <b>neither</b> team are using their head tactically, and one side is consistantly winning, what does that show?
<!--QuoteBegin--Kwil+Jul 15 2003, 12:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Jul 15 2003, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wasn't trying to suggest that either side is actually imbalanced, just that we should be prepared for a lot of the new players to very quickly get discouraged unless we're aware of what they might be thinking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->very quickly get discouraged unless we're aware of what they might be thinking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am double quoting because I feel this is very important to Stress! As with any game, when you new to it, its a wounder land and your Alice all hopped up on Blue pills. Things seem strange and hard. So its important that the community get ready for Newbies of a really low level, I'm talking people from the pits of CS trying our game and looking for any flaws they can find. The biggest Flaw they will find is <b>BAD ATTITUDE</b>. Everyone knows how annoying some Nubs can be, sometimes you wish FF was on so you could shoot your teammate dead and move on. We all have to try to think about what kind of game we have here and just how luck we all are to be able to enjoy it. When 2.0 comes out on the 31st to the community, make sure that you are all ready to drop your gun and start trying to lend that helping hand! If we long time players aren't going to be helpful, then all your doing is hurting our chances of getting to Stage 3 (as Kwil said)faster! I know that I am going to get in some hard core game time, but I will gladly stop killing and get owned if I can help a newbie get into the game and learn to play!
I am hoping that we all try to be more friendly to newbies come July 31st! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
This thread isn't about Clans, Clanplay, or Clanners in Pubs. Clans don't need to be forced to see the logic of teamwork, unfortunately pubbers do.
You Clanners have got to realize that the whole community doesn't revolve around clanplay, we <i>do</i> discuss <b>pub play</b> dynamics since it <i>does</i> make up the <b>bulk</b> of the community. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<u>This thread is about Pub Play.</u> Specifically, the disparity between the level teamwork required for success in v2.0 and the lack of teamwork that presently exists in v1.04 pubs.
Will it work going from a gameplay model (v1.04) that demands a low level of teamwork to a gameplay model (v2.0) that demands a high level teamwork? Will this positively or negatively impact teamplay on Pubs?
It is my opinion that an uncompromising teamplay model is <i>necessary</i> to build teamwork on public servers but some of the concerns people posted on this thread can also be the result of such an uncompromising model. Whining about unbalanced teams, exploiting/cheating, greater tendency toward team stacking; they could all be possible reactions to the greater demand for teamplay. There is little doubt a transition period will be necessary and some people will be unhappy.
But in general: <u>Will v2.0 ultimately make teamwork a regualr occurance on <b>public servers</b></u>.
Presently NS is a teamplay game that sees little to no teamplay on pub servers... I believe that is the central question of the thread as well as to the evolution of NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jojoshua+Jul 14 2003, 01:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Jul 14 2003, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the current version, you will need a lot of teamwork to win as marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> agreed
<!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Jul 15 2003, 07:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Jul 15 2003, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And yes i know you're directly referring to 1 particular incident in the US vs. EU game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although that incident is one of the most horrifying examples of the kind of poor tactics I'm talking about, I've seen smaller (yet still very significant) blunders on a pretty consistent basis.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If <b>neither</b> team are using their head tactically, and one side is consistantly winning, what does that show?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given the nature of the two sides in NS, I'd say that the game is working as designed. You may regard the different race skill/teamwork focuses as a myth (and I agree it's less pronounced in 1.04, due to a skilled rambo being able to kill far more skulks than one skilled skulk can kill marines) but the devs have specifically said that these focuses were intended. The beefing of the skulk is a step to make the focuses more pronounced. I see no problem in 2.0 generating the caveat that "Marines must group, and group <b>intelligently</b> in order to mount a successful attacks against skilled aliens." I came into NS assuming this, and I will continue to play using this mentality.
Comments
If I say so myself, I have very good aim and before the aliens come standard equipped with carapace, I tend to get twice as many kills as deaths. Non-cara skulks are truly easy to take down, as long as you're careful about it (watch the ceilings, turn up your volume and listen closely for footsteps, pick a comfortable sensitivity and use it until you can track a running skulk perfectly, etc.)
In 2.0, I'm concerned that with less D as the first chamber, it'll be a total slaughterfest on pub servers. Add in a couple weapons and armour upgrades and the aliens will have to resort to pack and surprise tactics to survive - both of which pub noobs rarely do as aliens.
Yet, if this was a pub game instead of a clan game, you'd be praising the fact that 3 marines were actually in the same room as each other :)
And yes i know you're directly referring to 1 particular incident in the US vs. EU game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If one side consistently wins because the other side isn't using their head tactically, that does not suggest a racial imbalance.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That wasn't my quote, try this one:
If <b>neither</b> team are using their head tactically, and one side is consistantly winning, what does that show?
EDIT:
<3 Roob
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->very quickly get discouraged unless we're aware of what they might be thinking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am double quoting because I feel this is very important to Stress!
As with any game, when you new to it, its a wounder land and your Alice all hopped up on Blue pills. Things seem strange and hard. So its important that the community get ready for Newbies of a really low level, I'm talking people from the pits of CS trying our game and looking for any flaws they can find. The biggest Flaw they will find is <b>BAD ATTITUDE</b>. Everyone knows how annoying some Nubs can be, sometimes you wish FF was on so you could shoot your teammate dead and move on. We all have to try to think about what kind of game we have here and just how luck we all are to be able to enjoy it.
When 2.0 comes out on the 31st to the community, make sure that you are all ready to drop your gun and start trying to lend that helping hand! If we long time players aren't going to be helpful, then all your doing is hurting our chances of getting to Stage 3 (as Kwil said)faster!
I know that I am going to get in some hard core game time, but I will gladly stop killing and get owned if I can help a newbie get into the game and learn to play!
I am hoping that we all try to be more friendly to newbies come July 31st! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You Clanners have got to realize that the whole community doesn't revolve around clanplay, we <i>do</i> discuss <b>pub play</b> dynamics since it <i>does</i> make up the <b>bulk</b> of the community. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<u>This thread is about Pub Play.</u> Specifically, the disparity between the level teamwork required for success in v2.0 and the lack of teamwork that presently exists in v1.04 pubs.
Will it work going from a gameplay model (v1.04) that demands a low level of teamwork to a gameplay model (v2.0) that demands a high level teamwork? Will this positively or negatively impact teamplay on Pubs?
It is my opinion that an uncompromising teamplay model is <i>necessary</i> to build teamwork on public servers but some of the concerns people posted on this thread can also be the result of such an uncompromising model. Whining about unbalanced teams, exploiting/cheating, greater tendency toward team stacking; they could all be possible reactions to the greater demand for teamplay. There is little doubt a transition period will be necessary and some people will be unhappy.
But in general: <u>Will v2.0 ultimately make teamwork a regualr occurance on <b>public servers</b></u>.
Presently NS is a teamplay game that sees little to no teamplay on pub servers... I believe that is the central question of the thread as well as to the evolution of NS.
agreed
Although that incident is one of the most horrifying examples of the kind of poor tactics I'm talking about, I've seen smaller (yet still very significant) blunders on a pretty consistent basis.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If <b>neither</b> team are using their head tactically, and one side is consistantly winning, what does that show?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given the nature of the two sides in NS, I'd say that the game is working as designed. You may regard the different race skill/teamwork focuses as a myth (and I agree it's less pronounced in 1.04, due to a skilled rambo being able to kill far more skulks than one skilled skulk can kill marines) but the devs have specifically said that these focuses were intended. The beefing of the skulk is a step to make the focuses more pronounced. I see no problem in 2.0 generating the caveat that "Marines must group, and group <b>intelligently</b> in order to mount a successful attacks against skilled aliens." I came into NS assuming this, and I will continue to play using this mentality.