a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited July 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Freemantle+Jul 22 2003, 10:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freemantle @ Jul 22 2003, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Knockback would be nice, but it loses usefulness where it is needed (against Fade and Oni, where the shotgun has trouble hanging). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't see how that would cause it to lose it's effectiveness against Fades.
I wasn't saying knockback would make it less effective on Fade, but it does very little to help the shotgun be viable over HMG when Fade-killing needs to be done, as the Fade will be practically on top of you by the time you find him.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--Freemantle+Jul 23 2003, 01:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freemantle @ Jul 23 2003, 01:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I wasn't saying knockback would make it less effective on Fade, but it does very little to help the shotgun be viable over HMG when Fade-killing needs to be done, as the Fade will be practically on top of you by the time you find him.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it would help. After all, if a Fade is practically on top of you and you blast it away, does that not help?
<!--QuoteBegin--halcoberry hound+Jul 22 2003, 09:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (halcoberry hound @ Jul 22 2003, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> dunno, but it seems that ppl have used shotguns, if anything to much in 1.04 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Whatever it is that you're on, I want some.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
The only advantage the 1.04 shotgun has over the LMG is a larger clip size. They both output nearly the same amount of damage per second (150 for LMG, 160 for shotgun).
<!--QuoteBegin--Freemantle+Jul 23 2003, 03:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freemantle @ Jul 23 2003, 03:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or something to the effect of throwing off the attacks of any survivor from a shotgun blast.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Knockback would be an anti-melee effect, whereas that would be more of an anti-ranged effect. Considering that the shotgun is a close ranged weapon, I'd tend to prefer an anti-melee effect.
The game is almost entirely different, you are comming close to comparing oranges and apples in terms of changes. I can tell you for a fact that everything you're saying about skulk balance is the exact opposite of the truth. I find it funny that most of Savant's supporters have yet to play 2.0. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Despite your playtester status, I will ignore your comments since you didn't elaborate like your good peers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <ul> <li>Skulk moves signifigantly faster <li>Skulk has a larger bite radius <li>Skulk can bunny hop more easily <li>Skulk chamber upgrades are more effective and viable <li>Skulk viewpoint is less restricting, making it easier to keep track of your enemy. <li>Skulk health increased by 5 health <li>Skulk armor increased by 15 points. <li>Skulks no longer emit sounds when walking. <li>Skulks spawn faster than marines <li>Skulk position re-orienting is slightly disorienting. <li>Cheaper hives mean more chamber upgrades faster. <li>Gorges are more common so it's easier to find healing <li>Lerks provide better support <li>Marine hitboxes have been much improved. <li>Marines can no longer bunny hop or jump rapidly <li>Marines pistol RoF has been signifigantly lowered </ul>
The list of changes which also more indrectly effect the skulk-marine relationship are too numerous to mention, but it can safely be said that NS is new enough of a game that 1.04 experience won't help you theorize about how the balance in 2.0 will be.
The majority of vets agree that skulks and marines are in a very closely balanced relationship right now. Just look around on the beta forum. On top of this, usually I see a quite balanced score when I get on a 2.0 server. Even if it wasn't balanced, flayra himself quoted that skulks needed to be a bit less than marines since marines have a dedicated comm and move slower.
Again, the skulk balance is fine. Even the pts who are complaining about the skulk lowering in HP really aren't complaining that the game is now imbalanced, they just think it could have been done in a better way. Please, trust the pts and vets when we say that the relationship between skulk and marine is balanced. I find it ironic that the majority of people complaining about skulk-imbalance aren't even playing 2.0. Expansion on my debate or not, this does have something to say about "the skulks aren't balanced ;_;" argumetns.
I'll take your word for it, but expect this topic rezzed if it is all lies <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I don't see how that would cause it to lose it's effectiveness against Fades.
I think it would help. After all, if a Fade is practically on top of you and you blast it away, does that not help?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Whatever it is that you're on, I want some.
<!--QuoteBegin--Freemantle+Jul 23 2003, 03:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freemantle @ Jul 23 2003, 03:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or something to the effect of throwing off the attacks of any survivor from a shotgun blast.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Knockback would be an anti-melee effect, whereas that would be more of an anti-ranged effect. Considering that the shotgun is a close ranged weapon, I'd tend to prefer an anti-melee effect.
The game is almost entirely different, you are comming close to comparing oranges and apples in terms of changes. I can tell you for a fact that everything you're saying about skulk balance is the exact opposite of the truth. I find it funny that most of Savant's supporters have yet to play 2.0. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Despite your playtester status, I will ignore your comments since you didn't elaborate like your good peers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<ul>
<li>Skulk moves signifigantly faster
<li>Skulk has a larger bite radius
<li>Skulk can bunny hop more easily
<li>Skulk chamber upgrades are more effective and viable
<li>Skulk viewpoint is less restricting, making it easier to keep track of your enemy.
<li>Skulk health increased by 5 health
<li>Skulk armor increased by 15 points.
<li>Skulks no longer emit sounds when walking.
<li>Skulks spawn faster than marines
<li>Skulk position re-orienting is slightly disorienting.
<li>Cheaper hives mean more chamber upgrades faster.
<li>Gorges are more common so it's easier to find healing
<li>Lerks provide better support
<li>Marine hitboxes have been much improved.
<li>Marines can no longer bunny hop or jump rapidly
<li>Marines pistol RoF has been signifigantly lowered
</ul>
The list of changes which also more indrectly effect the skulk-marine relationship are too numerous to mention, but it can safely be said that NS is new enough of a game that 1.04 experience won't help you theorize about how the balance in 2.0 will be.
The majority of vets agree that skulks and marines are in a very closely balanced relationship right now. Just look around on the beta forum. On top of this, usually I see a quite balanced score when I get on a 2.0 server. Even if it wasn't balanced, flayra himself quoted that skulks needed to be a bit less than marines since marines have a dedicated comm and move slower.
Again, the skulk balance is fine. Even the pts who are complaining about the skulk lowering in HP really aren't complaining that the game is now imbalanced, they just think it could have been done in a better way. Please, trust the pts and vets when we say that the relationship between skulk and marine is balanced. I find it ironic that the majority of people complaining about skulk-imbalance aren't even playing 2.0. Expansion on my debate or not, this does have something to say about "the skulks aren't balanced ;_;" argumetns.