Early Game Balance
Predmid
Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14997Members
Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14997Members
as the tournament this weekend proved, 2.0 for clan play isnt totally balanced. there has to be a way to slow down the huge alien expansion in the beginning. The hive evolution restriction sorta works, but it hinders the mid and late game play. For what its worth, heres my 2 cents.
1. equalize starting res: as it stands now, the aliens have a 50 res advantage right off the bat. then as they drop 2-4 nodes inside of 30 seconds, they have a well built economy in the first minute. to try and curb this huge rapid expansion, lower the starting alien res. to make it so that the gorges cant build an rt from the start would instantly hinder the growth. In conjunction with, or maybe alone, increase the beginning marine res. so that they can begin to tech or expand right off the bat like their alien counterparts.
My scenario would be to drop alien beginning res to 20 each and increase marine res to 120 as to allow both sides equal opportunity to build their economies and begin teching up.
2. Increasing alien rt cost. (using this alone or somewhat in conjunction with point 1) By increasing rt costs, again, aliens cant go and drop a bunch of nodes right off the start; this gives the rines the time to secure a few nodes and have an equal opportunity to win.
3. final point, as soon as the second hive is up, and u have tier 2 upgrades, the aliens for the most part, cant be beat. There has been one occasion in my experience in which there was somewhat equal skill on both sides and the rines came back after the all important 2nd hive was finished and mc/dcs were employed. a bunch of oni, fades, lerks and got killed in a rine ambush by shotguns and gren launchers, after that, it was back and forth for awhile until the rines got ha, then they ha/shotty rushed the hives, gg for the rines. If the hive cost is increased to the 2.01c level, (tournament was using b), the rines have suffcient time to tech up and have a chance at winning.
go ahead, begin the flaming <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. equalize starting res: as it stands now, the aliens have a 50 res advantage right off the bat. then as they drop 2-4 nodes inside of 30 seconds, they have a well built economy in the first minute. to try and curb this huge rapid expansion, lower the starting alien res. to make it so that the gorges cant build an rt from the start would instantly hinder the growth. In conjunction with, or maybe alone, increase the beginning marine res. so that they can begin to tech or expand right off the bat like their alien counterparts.
My scenario would be to drop alien beginning res to 20 each and increase marine res to 120 as to allow both sides equal opportunity to build their economies and begin teching up.
2. Increasing alien rt cost. (using this alone or somewhat in conjunction with point 1) By increasing rt costs, again, aliens cant go and drop a bunch of nodes right off the start; this gives the rines the time to secure a few nodes and have an equal opportunity to win.
3. final point, as soon as the second hive is up, and u have tier 2 upgrades, the aliens for the most part, cant be beat. There has been one occasion in my experience in which there was somewhat equal skill on both sides and the rines came back after the all important 2nd hive was finished and mc/dcs were employed. a bunch of oni, fades, lerks and got killed in a rine ambush by shotguns and gren launchers, after that, it was back and forth for awhile until the rines got ha, then they ha/shotty rushed the hives, gg for the rines. If the hive cost is increased to the 2.01c level, (tournament was using b), the rines have suffcient time to tech up and have a chance at winning.
go ahead, begin the flaming <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Really, you've said everything I'd have said. Personally, I would like to see res activation back in the game, to expand the (oh too short) early game.
This is, however, a possible solution I'd like to see explored (along with the wonderful electricity changes in 2.01x) in some nice beta.
But then again, with the electricity changes in the recent patches, so can Marines. Think about it like this. By chosing to expand early, the Aliens are neglecting upgrades and defense for their hives. Marines can do just that as well. If you don't want to waste res on TF/Mines/Arms Lab, then just plop down IP/Armory and set a base guard. Then send out two squads to cap nodes like madmen and electrify every single one of them. They will stand until two hives, and by that time, you should have accumulated enough tech to down one of said hives quite easily.
It's all choice in strategy really. Early expansion wins over early defense. Early offense wins over early expansion. Early defense wins over early offense. Simplified of course, but you can see it happen like that in RTS games, and that is basically what NS boils down to.
In any event, good point.
1. equalize starting res: as it stands now, the aliens have a 50 res advantage right off the bat. then as they drop 2-4 nodes inside of 30 seconds, they have a well built economy in the first minute. to try and curb this huge rapid expansion, lower the starting alien res. to make it so that the gorges cant build an rt from the start would instantly hinder the growth. In conjunction with, or maybe alone, increase the beginning marine res. so that they can begin to tech or expand right off the bat like their alien counterparts.
My scenario would be to drop alien beginning res to 20 each and increase marine res to 120 as to allow both sides equal opportunity to build their economies and begin teching up.
2. Increasing alien rt cost. (using this alone or somewhat in conjunction with point 1) By increasing rt costs, again, aliens cant go and drop a bunch of nodes right off the start; this gives the rines the time to secure a few nodes and have an equal opportunity to win.
3. final point, as soon as the second hive is up, and u have tier 2 upgrades, the aliens for the most part, cant be beat. There has been one occasion in my experience in which there was somewhat equal skill on both sides and the rines came back after the all important 2nd hive was finished and mc/dcs were employed. a bunch of oni, fades, lerks and got killed in a rine ambush by shotguns and gren launchers, after that, it was back and forth for awhile until the rines got ha, then they ha/shotty rushed the hives, gg for the rines. If the hive cost is increased to the 2.01c level, (tournament was using b), the rines have suffcient time to tech up and have a chance at winning.
go ahead, begin the flaming <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe he missed one part:
Hive 3 aliens vs. High Tech marines will ALWAYS result in a marine win, assuming the battleground is fair (Marines aren't stuck in their base, and control 50% of the map). Alien upgrades aren't anywhere near as useful as marine upgrades. Marines get NATURAL carapace upgrade, as well as 50 other toys. Aliens get 3 lousy toys, and some hive 3 abilities that may or may not be useless.
As for the RFK, i personally believe that they are strongly needed on both sides. Res towers alone can barely get the teams teching up, and with most rine attacks needing a constant med spam from spores and such, the rines would have NO res if not for the RFK. On the opposite side, the aliens would be far too dependent on the two or three perm gorges to do the building of various structures, cause if the skulks get no res for kills, they have no benefit to do anything but camp their secured area and recieve no bonus for scouting out lone rambos etc. Usually, if the early scouting skulks are doing their job right, their res should be in the 50-60 range as one of them drops the hive and the others evolve into higher forms.