Shotty
Zin
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18732Members
Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18732Members
<div class="IPBDescription">too good or just fine?</div> looking at the current statues of the shotty, it basically outclass the hmg when its in the hands of a good user. with its insane RoF and heavy damage, owning 1 skulk in a hit is no prob but owning FADES in TWO HITs?! im just wondering if tat is too much.
at lvl 3 weapons, this gun is a cheap doomsday weapon, no fade would dare **** close to risk his 50 res. with it a small group of marines and hold a narrow passage or vents without much trouble. to top it all off it just costs 10 res.
i was wondering if the RoF could be reduced to somewhere in between 1.0x and 2.0 values or im just plain wrong tat shotty is good but not overpowering.
comments plz.
at lvl 3 weapons, this gun is a cheap doomsday weapon, no fade would dare **** close to risk his 50 res. with it a small group of marines and hold a narrow passage or vents without much trouble. to top it all off it just costs 10 res.
i was wondering if the RoF could be reduced to somewhere in between 1.0x and 2.0 values or im just plain wrong tat shotty is good but not overpowering.
comments plz.
Comments
The shotgun alone lacks compliment, you need an HMG to efficiently work in a group, or your shotgunners will be extremely vulnerable at times.
isnt the primary objective of a shotgun to own smaller lifeforms like the lerk skulk and gorge handsdown at close range. as it stands now this also extends to the fade. 2-4 good hits will down 50 res worth of a fade who will have to come up close and personal to try to kill you.
as for the vents, if u r desperate to down a critical vent position, example the redroom is ns_notthing, onos cannt get in, fade will just get smashed by shottys let alone smaller lifeforms who r even vulerable to turrets.
It's cheaper and just as effective to go with Shotties and GLs.
Hmmm... no.
The shotty should be a reasonably cheap weapon, so I think the weapon itself should be toned down rather than the price increased.
A simple ROF decrease should do. The problem in 1.04 was the shottie was both too expensive AND not particularly powerful. In 2.0, it is both. There needs to be a middleground of cost and power.
Furthemore, the more armor you have, the less a shotgun should do to you. Thus, shotgun would be good for fighting off gorges, skulks, and close lerks, but would have a counter in fades and onos: Currently, there really IS no counter.
HMG is far better for taking out carapaced enemies however due to it being less affected by armor.
then again, when's the last time i've seen either an HMG or an alien with carapace? hehe...
Shottie is a fun weapon to weild, but I agree that it is overpowered. Make the rate of fire a bit slower, let the pump animation fully complete, as Monkeybonk said. That, and either drop the amount of damage it deals, or raise the price.
And the only time you'll kill a fresh marine in two hits with a fade is if you absolutely ravaged them as a skulk and went fade before they eject their bad comm and get the armor upgrades flowing.
Make the shotgun require an ARMS LAB! That way, you can't just rush and end the game with a shotty rush 1 min after it starts (that's jus lame)
OR make it an advanced armory weapon: a 10 res shotgun should NOT be able to kill a regen onos in 1 clip! With carapace, it only takes 14 shots from a lvl 2 shotty to die!
On lvl 3, it takes like 8 shots for an onos to die, then 10 with carapace!
10 res weapon takin down a 100 res beast??? Give the onos it's 350 carapace armor back!!! WAHH!!
No. Shotgun rush is a valid tactic. If it fails, the marines are in a bad position.
Increasing the cost of the shotgun would defeat the purpose of a cheap, situational weapon. Increase the cost to 15 res and commanders will be less likely to drop it as they'll just save for the HMG. Lowering the RoF would probably be the best way to go. Lower the damage and it doesn't offer enough benefit over the LMG. Increase the spread and the range gets even shorter (I think the range is fine). Lower the RoF and you still have the per shot power and adequate range, but you'll have to choose your shots better. Right now, the rate of fire just makes it too forgiving if you miss a shot or two.
First up - the shotgun rush - a perfectly fine tactic that is counterable.
Ok, so like in most 2.0 games, many skulks go to a res node, evolve, cap the node and go back to skulk. This is a risky full-out expansion strategy that leaves the aliens defenseless in the precious first few seconds of the game. If this expansion works however, then the aliens have a bunch of early nodes and since they evolved back to skulks, they can protect them.
If you manage to successfully rush the alien hive during this time, it is not -lame- it is an effective counter to over-expanding aliens who neglected defense.
Furthermore, although skulks die in 1 direct hit from a shotgun, it takes skill to aim that shot. Aliens can kill in 2 bites (without ups). A well placed sensory chamber (or a well hidden skulk with silence) can wipe out or reduce the effectiveness of the rush (ie. only leave 1 or 2 marines left alive going into the hive).
Currently, since aliens tech so fast, you need the shotgun to slow or stop the fades and onos. Can marines really put up an offensive with lmgs? At least give them a weapon that can fight aliens on fair ground.
50 res fade dieing to a 10 res shotgun? Well usually that same fade was able to kill at least a few lmg marines before dieing and possibly an electrified rt. I know that when I am a fade, I try not to charge the shotgunners head on, I ambush.
As an onos, the shotgun pellets will mostly go through the onos unless you hit that magical hull area.
My conclusion. The shotgun is fair and is the only real weapon threat to early onos + fade before HAs come along.
How scared are you of light machine gun marines when you are an onos or fade? I know that when I see lmg marines, I always think "free res".
I really like this idea.
However I don't think they are too powerful in terms of damage if that damage is only CQB damage.
Regards,
Savant
I have found a flaw in this logic.
It takes just 6.25 shots from a SG to destroy an OC
It takes 100 rnds from a HMG to do the same
That means it takes only 62.5 percent of 1 clip for a SG to destroy a lone OC and it takes 80 percent of HMGs clip to do the same.
The SG costs 10 res less and the DMG from 1 SG pellet is 16
The HMG costs 20, requires research and 1 bullet does 10 DMG
The HMG weights you down more than a SG
You can't use a JP with a HMG and you can with a SG (not great but you can)
4 rines with HMGS will have to reload a total of 12 times to destroy a Hive or 3 times each.
4 rines will SGs be able to destroy a hive without reloading once.
It takes almost 3 clips to destroy and ONOS with level 3 Carapace with an HMG
It takes 4 Shots to do the same amount of Damage.
I could go on with more examples, but I think I made it very clear its not worth having a Team of HMGs when you can have a team of SGs for half the cost!
What would you pick?
comparing res for aliens to marines is abit dif as well seems though aliens is individual.
Furthemore, the more armor you have, the less a shotgun should do to you. Thus, shotgun would be good for fighting off gorges, skulks, and close lerks, but would have a counter in fades and onos: Currently, there really IS no counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree! 1 to 1.5 seconds is a very logical rate of fire for a pump-shotgun. Also like the idea about being less effective against lots of armor. So the shottie is still better than an LMG against a fade, but an LMG is better than a shottie against a Onos.
The shotgun is supposed to deal massive damage really fast, but this has to be done at close range. This is designed to prevent redemption.
The shotgun is needed to counter those redeeming oni and not the other way around.
I agree that the HMG is somewhat underpowered, a simple fix would be increasing the damage per bullet while maintaining the small bullet spread so that it doesn't overcome the shotgun in terms of CQB. As for the GL, i believe it might need some more work, perhaps an increase in damage in general so that it remains more useful or maybe even increasing the clip capacity by two or so.
what about fades, fair enough lerks cos there long range. fades are for close up yet they die in a few hits.