Just because they die in 1 lmg clip does not make them a "weak" class.
If you take adren and keep blinking behind and then slashing, and repeating, i guarantee you even the best shots will only hit you with 50% of the bullets.
On th rare occasions I play as Kharaa, I never go Fade, OR Onos. For LA marines, I find I can usually take them as a SuperSkulk, and when that's not working, (Or just when I have plenty of res,) time to go Gorge, take some hives and RTs, and drops some chambers to support the big guns.
Having said that, I've had games where I've taken on marine after marine, armed only with Spit. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the 2.0 Fade I think that, much like Ebenezer Goode, he's much maligned and misunderstood. I think I've yet to cap a 2.0 fade... although I did manage to knife an Onos once. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
One on one, a fade should ALWAYS win. I don't care what weapon, equipment or upgrade level they're using. A fade should always win.
Should. The fact that they don't says something about the skill of the particular fade, not the power of the class overall. Fading well takes skill, and if you can't accept that: stick with playing marine (or CS, for that matter).
Against more marines it's a little bit trickier. But seriously, anything in light armour is your [female dog]. Shotguns aren't impossible to dodge - they do it in TFC all the time.
Get out your knife, circlestrafe it, hop some, it's not really an effort to kill it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's what two guys tried to do to me...Just blinked outside their circle and ran at them slashing.
Yes a fade should win in a 1 on 1 vs a HA HMG marine, all the time, otherwise theyre rubbish fades.
...........
Considering it takes 26 LEVEL ZERO HMG (about 1 second of weapon fire) bullets to kill a LEVEL 3 CARA fade, and it takes 4-5 slashes to kill the HA marine (if you get close) i really think HA HMG marines have an advantage against fades, dont you?
If the Fade is good, he should be able to. The key here is BLINK. You can't hit a target that's flying around the room at 600MPH, can you? And when he does stop to take a hit, he's off by the time you realize it.
Fades are better because they are the only alien to have a DECENT long ranged attack and they can fly. Onos are dumb (NOT ONIIIII ONOS) because they are slow (celerity helps that though)can get stuck easily etc. Onos are better for when has come and you can devour em and theyre gone easy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--sej+Aug 14 2003, 04:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sej @ Aug 14 2003, 04:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes a fade should win in a 1 on 1 vs a HA HMG marine, all the time, otherwise theyre rubbish fades.
...........
Considering it takes 26 LEVEL ZERO HMG (about 1 second of weapon fire) bullets to kill a LEVEL 3 CARA fade, and it takes 4-5 slashes to kill the HA marine (if you get close) i really think HA HMG marines have an advantage against fades, dont you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 7 to 9 slashes against a HA, depending on armour, according to the calculator. And 28 level 0 HMG shots against a cara 3 fade.
This just shows that fading is very dependent on skills. Any marine weapon can kill a fade without too much trouble, if it hits. So it is up to the player to get in, kill, and get out without being hit too often.
But he wont beat a HA marine on his own, he will cause them damage and survive, but not kill them.
Not one fade has killed me one on one when i was a HA marine, even with a lmg or on low armour.
Likewise, i havnt killed many HA HMG marines as fade ONE on one, but ive killed loads doing several hit and runs and wearing them down with other aliens e.g. lerks/gorges
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk.
I have taken oni solo with shottys and HA/HMG, its funny seeing them trying to devour u when ur moving around alot jumping. Some ppl neva think of using stomp.
U gotta try fade with regen to find out that meta is useless. although its ok if u dont have dcs but most games u get dc 2nd and thats when u get meta anyway.
Meta does feel useless. Maybe it should heal a lot more, or like the original idea ( maybe? Maybe I just dreamt of it), it would protect you from bullets at the cost of adren.
Meta isn't useless at all. The Fade is the Ultimate hit and run killer. I have seen 1 Fade blink into base, take out 4 marines get SGed bad, Blink out and come back 30 seconds later (with full health) and finish off 2 more before he was killed.
The way the fade is now, makes him much harder to use than the old, 50 meters away Acid spamer that required no skill at all. PPL who won't take the time to learn to use the fades AMAZING melee abilities (blink, swipe, meta) are losing out. Worse yet are the ppl who just suck so bad, they think that a skulk is better than a fade.
I like most ppl, didn't like the fade at first, then I used him a few times and now I love it! I think the swipe should be a bit stronger, but besides that, the fade is a super killer, once you learn how to Blink in, swipe and kill, blink out and Metabolize your self back to full life and repeat.
Use the fade until your good with it. It shouldn't take very long!
<!--QuoteBegin---Vash-+Aug 14 2003, 07:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Vash- @ Aug 14 2003, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fades used to be my favorite alien to play as..
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like you used to be an acid fade.
Remember the name of the game. Natural Selection. Evolve, or be left behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just up the footspeed, give him high jumping (Unique feature), and drastically increase the range of the swipe attack and slightly up the damage, and it'd be worth 50 resources.
Swipe has less range then bite (Which was increased from 1.04 to 2.0), does only a bit more damage (75 vs. 80), and walks slower then a skulk. Shouldn't he be better then a skulk?
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Aug 14 2003, 09:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Aug 14 2003, 09:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---Vash-+Aug 14 2003, 07:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Vash- @ Aug 14 2003, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fades used to be my favorite alien to play as..
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like you used to be an acid fade.
Remember the name of the game. Natural Selection. Evolve, or be left behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really..the Fade is still a powerful melee class, but it doesn't seem worth 50 res anymore. A skulks biggest disadvantage is its confinement to short range. A long hallway is death for a skulk, and now the fade has the same problem. Sure, you can blink, but without adrenaline it's not that great. Blink all the way in, get off a few swipes, and now with what little energy you have left you blink about 3 feet away before you get a shotgun blast to your back. For all bits and purposes a non 3 hive Fade is just a big skulk.
No one answered me. Why would it make sense for a skulk's <i>bite</i> (things have to be very close to put one's mouth on it) to have longer range than a fade's slash (with long, wicked claws)? The fact that I miss often doesn't seem to be the fact that my aim is poor, but that the marine moves just a little bit to the right or left at the last second of my swipe - causing a total miss. Maybe just widening the horizontal area (which makes perfect sense) would be a nice thing to add to the fade's attack. This would allow a fade to run up to an HMGer, take a few less then perfect swipes and still hit him, and then blink away in time before that 22nd shot hits him. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
If you don't have adrenaline, you have to play the fade game differently. With scent of fear you're looking for the marine that strays a bit from his team-mates. With defense you go in and clean house, but you don't waste all your energy on blink. You use it to get out.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zarparchior+Aug 14 2003, 10:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zarparchior @ Aug 14 2003, 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one answered me. Why would it make sense for a skulk's <i>bite</i> (things have to be very close to put one's mouth on it) then a fade's slash with big long wicked claws? The fact that I miss often doesn't seem to be the fact that my aim is poor, but that the marine moves just a little bit to the right or left at the last second of my swipe - causing a total miss. Maybe just widening the horizontal area (which makes perfect sense) would be a nice thing to add to the fade's attack. This would allow a fade to run up to an HMGer, take a few less then perfect swipes and still hit him, and then blink away in time before that 22nd shot hits him. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This was actaully an intended change from 1.04 to 2.0, I'm told. I think they moved back the skulks persepctive some so it' s easier to hide behind corners. But swipe needs much more range to catch those bunnyhopping snacks.
You make too much sense Bonk. Why do you post here again? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin---Vash-+Aug 14 2003, 10:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Vash- @ Aug 14 2003, 10:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Aug 14 2003, 09:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Aug 14 2003, 09:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---Vash-+Aug 14 2003, 07:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Vash- @ Aug 14 2003, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fades used to be my favorite alien to play as..
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like you used to be an acid fade.
Remember the name of the game. Natural Selection. Evolve, or be left behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really..the Fade is still a powerful melee class, but it doesn't seem worth 50 res anymore. A skulks biggest disadvantage is its confinement to short range. A long hallway is death for a skulk, and now the fade has the same problem. Sure, you can blink, but without adrenaline it's not that great. Blink all the way in, get off a few swipes, and now with what little energy you have left you blink about 3 feet away before you get a shotgun blast to your back. For all bits and purposes a non 3 hive Fade is just a big skulk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly: No other lifeform suffers even remotely as much as a fade does for lack of a movement chamber.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Correction :
No other species suffers remotely as badly from <b>bad foresight</b> as the Fade.
The Fade is truly a nightmare for marines, but now requires an awful lot of forethought. Dashing directly into a marine is a surefire way to die, but aliens are now supposed to work together an awful lot more (still less than marines, but much more than 1.0x)
Of course, the previous 'acid spammers' have suffered far worse from 2.0 than the melee Fades (*wink* at SoulSkorpion) but that's the way it goes. A 1 hive Fade, early on, as long as he's careful, and <b>only enters fights he will win</b> can quite easily box marines, with minimal support from 1-2 skulks, whose only purpose is to run in first, and run out again, to distract marine firepower long enough for the first one to die.
The Fade is a lot more artful than he was, and is no longer a beserker. Learn, but don't expect that to change because you won't.
As I was saying in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=42803&st=30' target='_blank'>this topic</a> before it was locked, due to flamers, fades are no longer that amazing assualt class alien they once where. I view them as a lot of work (just the time to become good with one, and then the 50 res) for little payoff.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Aug 14 2003, 01:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Aug 14 2003, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmmm... possibly a good balance suggestion. It would make sense for the Fade to outrange skulk/knife anyway.
Or possibly it does already? Anyone in the know care to comment? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And I still want better footspeed and the unique ability to be able to jump over marines.
I know Adrenaline is the favored build, but silence = pwnz
If the marines can't hear you blink, you can be in their face before anyone realizes what is happening. The one guy usually guarding from behind will go down quickly, and as you blink away the marines aren't really sure what's happened besides that a Fade popped out of nowhere and destroyed them.
Now, the marines have to be thinking that the Fade will pop out from behind every corner, making them slower, more prone to make mistakes, and less likely to follow orders. That, and you can keep popping out from the direction they least expect and taking them down one at a time. Fades are also able to react very quickly, so if the double nodes are being taken down by a small force of LMGs the Fade can be the first on scene and start harrassing before they can take them down.
Fades are the masters of stopping expansions before they start, but if a turret farm goes up/it gets filled with HAs/HMGs/Shotties, you're going to have some problems.
One of my favorite uses for a Fade is on those games that just won't end with marines camped behind turrets (think about hiding behind the CC on tanith), down to LMGs and pistols. The Fade can blink to the back without getting hit, reach an area guarded by one or two turrets, and kill as many marines as possible. I usually go Redempt in that case because I find I can get more damage in if I'm not worrying about blinking out (plus blinking through a turret farm is usually asking for trouble).
Two changes I'd make, one of which was mentioned here, one elsewhere:
1. Widen the fade's swipe. Considering that you're flailing a pair of two foot long razor-sharp bone spikes around, it's got a really narrow strike zone. Widening it will improve the chances of striking in hand-to-hand, which will make the fade more effective at what it's supposed to be for.
2. Get rid of the fast-switch protection. For heaven's sake! Not only can skulks not leap out of danger, but the blink/claw/blink attack strategy is often completely useless because you can't get out your claws fast enough nor can you blink away once you're starting to hurt. The fast-switch thing was only a minor exploit in the first place, and doesn't need to have a safe dropped on it like that.
Do these things, and there would probably be no need to change anything else...although the high-jumping thing would look really cool. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can see that everyone has WAY different opinions of how good the fade is, and that is awesome. Proves he is a great class, not to strong, but still very useful. I know a couple of my members that simply refuse to die when they have fade...its annoying as hec, but other times I can can kill 2-3 fades with nothing but a small shotgun squad, its really awesome.
Knife range still seems pretty damn huge to me, even though I'm pretty sure there was a nerf to it in a previous version. As a marine, I can knife a fade 3 or 4 times before he can usually get his claws on me. Depending on how much lead was filled into him beforehand, that might be just enough to kill the poor sucker (since they don't have any MCs up and he can't blink away at all).
I believe myself to be a fairly skillful player. I enjoy playing a variety of roles as compared to specializing (because with gameplay changes, you might get fux0rd later on if your "specialization" gets changed). As skulk, I'm pretty good (especially with so many newbs running around <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ). Of course, I've seen skulks who just can never seem to be touched by any kind of gunfire with their mad strafe running abilites or skulks that can leap and bite at the same time... As a lerk, I'm certainly one of the better players, constantly spore-whoring the marines wherever they go and giving umbra when needed, with the occasional deadly and underestimated spike attack. As a gorge, I rock. I just need to say I'm one of the better ones out there, supporting and killing cocky marines all the time. It's funny to watch them run at me with a knife while I shoot them down with spit. It's almost sad... And when I get web? I'm pretty much invincible, unless a stray green-aid bounces unluckily on me. It's sad to see so many gorges still think that bilebomb does damage versus players, though... Someone should tell them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> As onos, well, who doesn't wreak havoc as one? As long as your not butt-fugly stupid, you'll kill marines. A lot. In 2.0, I've mostly refrained from going onos unless to prove a point or if I just feel like exploiting their overpoweredness for awhile. In liu of going onos, I've usually gone fade...
And fades need a lot of work. Their swipe range is stupidly small (compared with skulk's bite and the magic marine knife), they almost <i>need</i> to have level 3 adrenaline to be any sort of blinking fade, they die ludicrously fast to HMG fire even with level 3 carapace (only 28 bullets of the 125 clip with zero upgrades and full cara)... it's just sad. Fades are expensive, slightly stronger, overglorified skulks. As a HA marine, I'm simply just not scared melee fades. They can blink as much as they want, all I need is a handful of bullets to sink into them to kill the poor ****.
I think the best way to make these a soldier class once again would be reduce damage vs. HMGs (not a huge amount, but significant enough so that they can MAYBE take 50 or 60 unpgraded HMG bullets), increase walking speed slightly (should be noticibly faster than a marine), increase swipe range so that it is one of the longer ranged melee attacks (might need to readjust damage on swipe because of this), reduce mad energy drain on blink slightly (should still be draining, but not to the point where you need adrenaline to blink for more than 1 second), and... maybe increase metabolize healing to 50, while also increasing the energy cost. That one less so.
I'm certainly not saying that fades are weak globs of goo, but their cost is just very unproportionate to their usefulnes imo. Much like researching jetpacks...
<i>**edit: Seems like increasing swipe range is pretty popular. If any ideas for fades gets implemented, I hope it's that one. <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> </i>
Comments
If you take adren and keep blinking behind and then slashing, and repeating, i guarantee you even the best shots will only hit you with 50% of the bullets.
Fade is meant to be hit and run.
Having said that, I've had games where I've taken on marine after marine, armed only with Spit. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the 2.0 Fade I think that, much like Ebenezer Goode, he's much maligned and misunderstood. I think I've yet to cap a 2.0 fade... although I did manage to knife an Onos once. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Should. The fact that they don't says something about the skill of the particular fade, not the power of the class overall. Fading well takes skill, and if you can't accept that: stick with playing marine (or CS, for that matter).
Against more marines it's a little bit trickier. But seriously, anything in light armour is your [female dog]. Shotguns aren't impossible to dodge - they do it in TFC all the time.
Get out your knife, circlestrafe it, hop some, it's not really an effort to kill it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what two guys tried to do to me...Just blinked outside their circle and ran at them slashing.
...........
Considering it takes 26 LEVEL ZERO HMG (about 1 second of weapon fire) bullets to kill a LEVEL 3 CARA fade, and it takes 4-5 slashes to kill the HA marine (if you get close) i really think HA HMG marines have an advantage against fades, dont you?
Onos are dumb (NOT ONIIIII ONOS) because they are slow (celerity helps that though)can get stuck easily etc. Onos are better for when has come and you can devour em and theyre gone easy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
...........
Considering it takes 26 LEVEL ZERO HMG (about 1 second of weapon fire) bullets to kill a LEVEL 3 CARA fade, and it takes 4-5 slashes to kill the HA marine (if you get close) i really think HA HMG marines have an advantage against fades, dont you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
7 to 9 slashes against a HA, depending on armour, according to the calculator. And 28 level 0 HMG shots against a cara 3 fade.
This just shows that fading is very dependent on skills. Any marine weapon can kill a fade without too much trouble, if it hits. So it is up to the player to get in, kill, and get out without being hit too often.
Fade kills LA marines one on one yes
But he wont beat a HA marine on his own, he will cause them damage and survive, but not kill them.
Not one fade has killed me one on one when i was a HA marine, even with a lmg or on low armour.
Likewise, i havnt killed many HA HMG marines as fade ONE on one, but ive killed loads doing several hit and runs and wearing them down with other aliens e.g. lerks/gorges
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk.
U gotta try fade with regen to find out that meta is useless. although its ok if u dont have dcs but most games u get dc 2nd and thats when u get meta anyway.
Meta does feel useless. Maybe it should heal a lot more, or like the original idea ( maybe? Maybe I just dreamt of it), it would protect you from bullets at the cost of adren.
The Fade is the Ultimate hit and run killer.
I have seen 1 Fade blink into base, take out 4 marines get SGed bad, Blink out and come back 30 seconds later (with full health) and finish off 2 more before he was killed.
The way the fade is now, makes him much harder to use than the old, 50 meters away Acid spamer that required no skill at all. PPL who won't take the time to learn to use the fades AMAZING melee abilities (blink, swipe, meta) are losing out. Worse yet are the ppl who just suck so bad, they think that a skulk is better than a fade.
I like most ppl, didn't like the fade at first, then I used him a few times and now I love it! I think the swipe should be a bit stronger, but besides that, the fade is a super killer, once you learn how to Blink in, swipe and kill, blink out and Metabolize your self back to full life and repeat.
Use the fade until your good with it. It shouldn't take very long!
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like you used to be an acid fade.
Remember the name of the game. Natural Selection. Evolve, or be left behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Swipe has less range then bite (Which was increased from 1.04 to 2.0), does only a bit more damage (75 vs. 80), and walks slower then a skulk. Shouldn't he be better then a skulk?
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like you used to be an acid fade.
Remember the name of the game. Natural Selection. Evolve, or be left behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really..the Fade is still a powerful melee class, but it doesn't seem worth 50 res anymore. A skulks biggest disadvantage is its confinement to short range. A long hallway is death for a skulk, and now the fade has the same problem. Sure, you can blink, but without adrenaline it's not that great. Blink all the way in, get off a few swipes, and now with what little energy you have left you blink about 3 feet away before you get a shotgun blast to your back. For all bits and purposes a non 3 hive Fade is just a big skulk.
This was actaully an intended change from 1.04 to 2.0, I'm told. I think they moved back the skulks persepctive some so it' s easier to hide behind corners. But swipe needs much more range to catch those bunnyhopping snacks.
USED TO BE.
Now all they are is big slow (occasionally fast) skulks. They lost all their advantage by losing bile bomb and making acid rocket 3rd hive. Unless you're in one of those end game standstills where youre trying to break into the marines last ditch effort turrent farm, It's not really worth going Fade anymore. It's a lot more efficient to spend 4 res on upgrades for a Skulk, run in, kill 1 or 2 and die, respawn and do the same again, than it is to spend 56 res on a fully upgraded Fade and do about the same thing, but slower and with more risk. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like you used to be an acid fade.
Remember the name of the game. Natural Selection. Evolve, or be left behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really..the Fade is still a powerful melee class, but it doesn't seem worth 50 res anymore. A skulks biggest disadvantage is its confinement to short range. A long hallway is death for a skulk, and now the fade has the same problem. Sure, you can blink, but without adrenaline it's not that great. Blink all the way in, get off a few swipes, and now with what little energy you have left you blink about 3 feet away before you get a shotgun blast to your back. For all bits and purposes a non 3 hive Fade is just a big skulk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly: No other lifeform suffers even remotely as much as a fade does for lack of a movement chamber.
No other species suffers remotely as badly from <b>bad foresight</b> as the Fade.
The Fade is truly a nightmare for marines, but now requires an awful lot of forethought. Dashing directly into a marine is a surefire way to die, but aliens are now supposed to work together an awful lot more (still less than marines, but much more than 1.0x)
Of course, the previous 'acid spammers' have suffered far worse from 2.0 than the melee Fades (*wink* at SoulSkorpion) but that's the way it goes. A 1 hive Fade, early on, as long as he's careful, and <b>only enters fights he will win</b> can quite easily box marines, with minimal support from 1-2 skulks, whose only purpose is to run in first, and run out again, to distract marine firepower long enough for the first one to die.
The Fade is a lot more artful than he was, and is no longer a beserker. Learn, but don't expect that to change because you won't.
I'd like the swipe range to be increased a bit. I feel that some of my swipes miss when they should be hits.
Or possibly it does already? Anyone in the know care to comment?
Or possibly it does already? Anyone in the know care to comment? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I still want better footspeed and the unique ability to be able to jump over marines.
If the marines can't hear you blink, you can be in their face before anyone realizes what is happening. The one guy usually guarding from behind will go down quickly, and as you blink away the marines aren't really sure what's happened besides that a Fade popped out of nowhere and destroyed them.
Now, the marines have to be thinking that the Fade will pop out from behind every corner, making them slower, more prone to make mistakes, and less likely to follow orders. That, and you can keep popping out from the direction they least expect and taking them down one at a time. Fades are also able to react very quickly, so if the double nodes are being taken down by a small force of LMGs the Fade can be the first on scene and start harrassing before they can take them down.
Fades are the masters of stopping expansions before they start, but if a turret farm goes up/it gets filled with HAs/HMGs/Shotties, you're going to have some problems.
One of my favorite uses for a Fade is on those games that just won't end with marines camped behind turrets (think about hiding behind the CC on tanith), down to LMGs and pistols. The Fade can blink to the back without getting hit, reach an area guarded by one or two turrets, and kill as many marines as possible. I usually go Redempt in that case because I find I can get more damage in if I'm not worrying about blinking out (plus blinking through a turret farm is usually asking for trouble).
1. Widen the fade's swipe. Considering that you're flailing a pair of two foot long razor-sharp bone spikes around, it's got a really narrow strike zone. Widening it will improve the chances of striking in hand-to-hand, which will make the fade more effective at what it's supposed to be for.
2. Get rid of the fast-switch protection. For heaven's sake! Not only can skulks not leap out of danger, but the blink/claw/blink attack strategy is often completely useless because you can't get out your claws fast enough nor can you blink away once you're starting to hurt. The fast-switch thing was only a minor exploit in the first place, and doesn't need to have a safe dropped on it like that.
Do these things, and there would probably be no need to change anything else...although the high-jumping thing would look really cool. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I know a couple of my members that simply refuse to die when they have fade...its annoying as hec, but other times I can can kill 2-3 fades with nothing but a small shotgun squad, its really awesome.
I believe myself to be a fairly skillful player. I enjoy playing a variety of roles as compared to specializing (because with gameplay changes, you might get fux0rd later on if your "specialization" gets changed). As skulk, I'm pretty good (especially with so many newbs running around <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ). Of course, I've seen skulks who just can never seem to be touched by any kind of gunfire with their mad strafe running abilites or skulks that can leap and bite at the same time... As a lerk, I'm certainly one of the better players, constantly spore-whoring the marines wherever they go and giving umbra when needed, with the occasional deadly and underestimated spike attack. As a gorge, I rock. I just need to say I'm one of the better ones out there, supporting and killing cocky marines all the time. It's funny to watch them run at me with a knife while I shoot them down with spit. It's almost sad... And when I get web? I'm pretty much invincible, unless a stray green-aid bounces unluckily on me. It's sad to see so many gorges still think that bilebomb does damage versus players, though... Someone should tell them. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> As onos, well, who doesn't wreak havoc as one? As long as your not butt-fugly stupid, you'll kill marines. A lot. In 2.0, I've mostly refrained from going onos unless to prove a point or if I just feel like exploiting their overpoweredness for awhile. In liu of going onos, I've usually gone fade...
And fades need a lot of work. Their swipe range is stupidly small (compared with skulk's bite and the magic marine knife), they almost <i>need</i> to have level 3 adrenaline to be any sort of blinking fade, they die ludicrously fast to HMG fire even with level 3 carapace (only 28 bullets of the 125 clip with zero upgrades and full cara)... it's just sad. Fades are expensive, slightly stronger, overglorified skulks. As a HA marine, I'm simply just not scared melee fades. They can blink as much as they want, all I need is a handful of bullets to sink into them to kill the poor ****.
I think the best way to make these a soldier class once again would be reduce damage vs. HMGs (not a huge amount, but significant enough so that they can MAYBE take 50 or 60 unpgraded HMG bullets), increase walking speed slightly (should be noticibly faster than a marine), increase swipe range so that it is one of the longer ranged melee attacks (might need to readjust damage on swipe because of this), reduce mad energy drain on blink slightly (should still be draining, but not to the point where you need adrenaline to blink for more than 1 second), and... maybe increase metabolize healing to 50, while also increasing the energy cost. That one less so.
I'm certainly not saying that fades are weak globs of goo, but their cost is just very unproportionate to their usefulnes imo. Much like researching jetpacks...
<i>**edit: Seems like increasing swipe range is pretty popular. If any ideas for fades gets implemented, I hope it's that one. <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> </i>