HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Regardless of what you think, Flayra has seen how good the fade can be and if there are any changes to it I would bet money that they will be to nerf the fade, not to improve him. Because honestly, the fade is so good that its borderline imbalanced.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Aug 14 2003, 02:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Aug 14 2003, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Regardless of what you think, Flayra has seen how good the fade can be and if there are any changes to it I would bet money that they will be to nerf the fade, not to improve him. Because honestly, the fade is so good that its borderline imbalanced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah - the fade is most certainly a <i>ninja</i>.
A good fade will not stick around to get shot by the ubar shotguns - they will blink in, hit someone, and blink back. In this fashion, it's quite easy to get a kill or two every few moments. The Fade is most certainly not a base-breaker - in fact, the only real use I've ever seen for the is the control of light-armored marines. Against heavies, the fade falters. I believe the fade to be somewhat of a specialty class now - in 1.0X, the fade was the be-all-te-end-all for any player. Since 2.0, the fade has (in some folks' opinion) gotten better, but only in the right hands Personally, I believe the fade has reached a perfect balance. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Now that damn stomp is a different story....
<i>This just in: the desire to get a kill every time one enters the marine spawn is the largest proven cause of death for nubcaek aliens</i>
who needs fade... be a skulk... and get scent of fear... and actually skulk...
If you have nuff to go onos within the first 5 min of the game.... you can virtually STOP marine expansion... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fades are a very good tool. They transverse the map very quickly making it a very good pressure unit to keep the marines in a defensive position. I would suggest trying celerity and carapace/redemption for your fade *regen at hive 1 :/*, celerity makes you blink twice as fast which used efficently makes you go faster over the long run by tapping blink and jumping its used like a leap. Redemption is for a pressure fade who keeps on attacking and when put back at the hive comes back in less then 10 seconds.
I also have to agree with hambone, for the cost of 50 fades can change the course of a game immensly.
The fade movement style where you bounce around the level tapping blink instead of blinking continuously does give you a more efficient use of adrenaline, but there's a problem with it: you can't use it in vents. The fade can easily blink into most vents, but moving around in them is either very slow (crouched speed), or uses lots of energy as you need to use blink permanently.
"The fade movement style where you bounce around the level tapping blink instead of blinking continuously does give you a more efficient use of adrenaline, but there's a problem with it: you can't use it in vents. The fade can easily blink into most vents, but moving around in them is either very slow (crouched speed), or uses lots of energy as you need to use blink permanently. "
I believe you can jump and blink in vents, although I'm not positive. I've seen some AWESOME Fades, but I think people are **** they aren't better than Onos', as they were back in the first version. Weird times, then.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Get rid of the fast-switch protection. For heaven's sake! Not only can skulks not leap out of danger, but the blink/claw/blink attack strategy is often completely useless because you can't get out your claws fast enough nor can you blink away once you're starting to hurt. The fast-switch thing was only a minor exploit in the first place, and doesn't need to have a safe dropped on it like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the fade. If they made this change above it would be awesome. It is a bit hard to blink in, claw, blink out, and actually be productive in your efforts. I always go scent of fear if I can, so I can be very choosy about what I attack. You can lock marines into an outpost quite easily with a fade. No rambos will ever survive.
*high-fives with Shockwave* The switch time from blink to swipe is almost nil. Since I've never got the hang of using the mousewheel to switch weapons (I always end up spending a second or two finding the right weapon), I've become very used to reaching the 1,2,3 and 4 buttons while moving in any direction with wasd. I don't need scripting for that. Only fastswitch.
Occasionally I'll be able to Leapbite instantaniously. It's my favorite means of attack, even if it's a bit energy intensive. You can leap into a bite no problem. It's biting into leap that I always have trouble with. Even when I do get it to switch back, it does that obnoxious and extremely lame half-leap, where you don't go anywhere, but your claws fly, and you lose half your energy. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Teh suck. Fix it plz, kthx. I use lastweapon religiously on all other HL mods, why can't it be useful in this one?
As for the mousewheel, they also need to fix it so that you can scroll through the weapons in both directions. I hate rolling the wheel three times because I missed the right attack or weapon. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
although all aliens should be worth there res for all skill lvled players and fade doesnt fit that, as many many ppl have pointed out. U gotta get good with the fade and have alot of skill and all this other crap. whats happens if there are some ppl who cant its not very fair on them.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Aug 14 2003, 07:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Aug 14 2003, 07:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> although all aliens should be worth there res for all skill lvled players and fade doesnt fit that, as many many ppl have pointed out. U gotta get good with the fade and have alot of skill and all this other crap. whats happens if there are some ppl who cant its not very fair on them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually every single alien is this way. I can't count the number of terrible Onoses I've seen get themselves killed the first time they see a group of marines, and Skulks, Lerks and Gorges are all considerably harder to play well.
<!--QuoteBegin--HAMBONE+Aug 14 2003, 02:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Aug 14 2003, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Regardless of what you think, Flayra has seen how good the fade can be and if there are any changes to it I would bet money that they will be to nerf the fade, not to improve him. Because honestly, the fade is so good that its borderline imbalanced. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The question is: is balancing for the top players only? I compare fade vs hmg/ha with scout vs hw guy in TFC (because a scout dies as fast as a fade if he doesnt move). I know some top titanium/platinum scouts with so good strafe moving and bunny hopping that they never get hit by a average pub hw guy and kill them with the crowbar... but would you say that the scout is an awesome fighter class? A fade against a hmg/ha guy with the same skilllevel just dies and he dies fast.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Well, that's where you're going wrong.
The HA/HMG is a heavy assault unit, designed to stomp merrily in somewhere, and make things die.
A Fade is a stealth based unit, relying on abilities & speed to strike at a single enemy & then escape.
They're not similar in that respect <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+Aug 14 2003, 12:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Aug 14 2003, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> bingo. Brought down two myself today, with ym precious boomstick. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you see this?
This is my BOOMSTICK!
I hate the boomstick <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
The fade rocks. I also feel vindicated as a 1.0x melee fade <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. With metabolise and blink, it simply rules at hit and run. It's also good at destroying buildings not covered by the turret farm, or at breaking a hole in a small turret farm. Since binding lastinv to my right mouse button, I've never looked back.
Comments
Yeah - the fade is most certainly a <i>ninja</i>.
A good fade will not stick around to get shot by the ubar shotguns - they will blink in, hit someone, and blink back. In this fashion, it's quite easy to get a kill or two every few moments. The Fade is most certainly not a base-breaker - in fact, the only real use I've ever seen for the is the control of light-armored marines. Against heavies, the fade falters. I believe the fade to be somewhat of a specialty class now - in 1.0X, the fade was the be-all-te-end-all for any player. Since 2.0, the fade has (in some folks' opinion) gotten better, but only in the right hands Personally, I believe the fade has reached a perfect balance. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Now that damn stomp is a different story....
<i>This just in: the desire to get a kill every time one enters the marine spawn is the largest proven cause of death for nubcaek aliens</i>
If you have nuff to go onos within the first 5 min of the game.... you can virtually STOP marine expansion... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also have to agree with hambone, for the cost of 50 fades can change the course of a game immensly.
I believe you can jump and blink in vents, although I'm not positive. I've seen some AWESOME Fades, but I think people are **** they aren't better than Onos', as they were back in the first version. Weird times, then.
I love the fade. If they made this change above it would be awesome. It is a bit hard to blink in, claw, blink out, and actually be productive in your efforts. I always go scent of fear if I can, so I can be very choosy about what I attack. You can lock marines into an outpost quite easily with a fade. No rambos will ever survive.
* Looks blank *
I haven't found it a problem, and I can almost claw mid blink. I dun gettit.
The switch time from blink to swipe is almost nil. Since I've never got the hang of using the mousewheel to switch weapons (I always end up spending a second or two finding the right weapon), I've become very used to reaching the 1,2,3 and 4 buttons while moving in any direction with wasd. I don't need scripting for that. Only fastswitch.
As for the mousewheel, they also need to fix it so that you can scroll through the weapons in both directions. I hate rolling the wheel three times because I missed the right attack or weapon. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually every single alien is this way. I can't count the number of terrible Onoses I've seen get themselves killed the first time they see a group of marines, and Skulks, Lerks and Gorges are all considerably harder to play well.
w other aliens at the same time
you wreak havoc in their ranks
if you're good you can also pull it off without other aliens, you will know when to run
of course you will die, don't expect not to
The question is: is balancing for the top players only? I compare fade vs hmg/ha with scout vs hw guy in TFC (because a scout dies as fast as a fade if he doesnt move). I know some top titanium/platinum scouts with so good strafe moving and bunny hopping that they never get hit by a average pub hw guy and kill them with the crowbar... but would you say that the scout is an awesome fighter class?
A fade against a hmg/ha guy with the same skilllevel just dies and he dies fast.
The HA/HMG is a heavy assault unit, designed to stomp merrily in somewhere, and make things die.
A Fade is a stealth based unit, relying on abilities & speed to strike at a single enemy & then escape.
They're not similar in that respect <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
you see this?
This is my BOOMSTICK!
I hate the boomstick <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->