Stalemates Are Making Pub Play A Farce
Nether
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12530Members
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12530Members
Just came from another 1 hour + game on origin. The usual 2 hive aliens Vs 1 Hive/base Marines went on for about 45 mins then with some good teamwork aliens managed to get the 3rd hive. Then we move on the marine spawn with Turret farms galore and HA GL marines spammng all the entrances, due to the immense turrets and constant gl spamm it took half an hour to actually end the game. Was a very boring game for almost its entirety.
Whats needed is a team that works togther and uses all ths abilites as they should be used to counter which on a pub doesnt happen except in rare instances as thats the nature of pub. So were left with ridiculous situations where nothing changs for ages and the winning team usualy wins by f4 or everyone leaving the server.
I dont know what to suggest but I dont want the usual screams for nerf or balance changes that effect proper clan and league play. But something needs to be done becuase its out of hand as it is.
Whats needed is a team that works togther and uses all ths abilites as they should be used to counter which on a pub doesnt happen except in rare instances as thats the nature of pub. So were left with ridiculous situations where nothing changs for ages and the winning team usualy wins by f4 or everyone leaving the server.
I dont know what to suggest but I dont want the usual screams for nerf or balance changes that effect proper clan and league play. But something needs to be done becuase its out of hand as it is.
Comments
Aliens getting out of their 1.0x mindset.
They need cooperation now, much more than before. Players still seem to think they can just Onos & run in, and presume that'll work. It doesn't.
lerks are also a big help along with defence chambers so u dont have to keep running back to the hive
Simple enough to do more damage than they can replace before you can do it again as you have the map res advantage. Thats what its there for ;p
While onos is an effetive tool its not the walking tank you think, a redemption onos against lvl 3 marines and turret farm would last about 2 seconds b4 getting redeemed. Carapace would last longer but theres the risk of dying and the process of walking all the way back to a hive to heal if ur team hasnt put up dcs nearby.
Marines can defend like a soab with no effort or teamwork, to break that defence aliens need micromanagment teamplay which is rare on pubs...
the end game needs a LOT of work on pubs...i've been in many situations where it has been 2 hives/marines relocated to 3rd hive with turret farm and nade spam.
getting out of the 1.0x mindset is the key as shockwave stated...i'm sick of all the res **** with their attitude reminicent of:
"W00t i can onos now w00tw00t, i'm gonna charge them, OMG i died in 0.5 of a second, 2.0 am teh ***z0r OMG balance issues OMG...!>!.!!11..."
of the games i've played like this it is sometimes possible to rally the team together and get everyone to be a <i>different</i> class as they all have their roles.
But after all it is the nature of the pub server <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's the point. People are having stalemates BECAUSE of this sort of thing. How hard do you think it is to replace the turrets? It takes like 5 seconds.
The way to do it is with co-ordinated base assaults.
I'm sorry to appear to trample an opinion, but it's simply WHY this is happening
3 Hive Onos with either Regeneration or Carapace + Adrenaline. This should be done immediately after the 3rd hive goes up, as the longer you wait the more awkward it gets to end it.
Get outside the marine base, ideally have a kamikaze lerk to umbra you as you go in (Lerk will probably die in the process). Activate charge, and hop into the base, ignore the marines and crouch jump over the turrets till you hit the TF. Crouch down infront of the TF and press against it, while still charging switch to gore and begin goring at the same time.
The blast damage of gore stacks ontop of the insane charge damage you get by pressing into the structure in this way. The TF will literally die in 2 seconds, which is generally faster than they can kill you. This is very handy to know when you're playing on a public server.
If you took regen, and abused the insane 45hp/tick regen rate of the onos, you can probably just clean the whole base up in that run after the TF goes down.
Well, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. When it isn't then compensate by getting alot of res nodes. By the time you die, you should have enough res to go Lerk again. That's what I did. Just do your best to avoid grenades.
Yep that beats a turret farm. Now tell me how to get 4 turret factories that are actually placed well.
The chance of this occuring is essentially 0 and highly map dependant.
Marines will always have it easier when cracking a base, unless the aliens get a shoots-through-walls structure-destroyer too. But I don't see that happening anytime soon <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Until then, use teamwork. Communication is Key.
Finally, the voice of wisdom. The only reason this insane lockdown doesn't happen on good servers is the marines simply don't do it. They don't want a 2 hour game. You can not get a lerk through a corridor that has CONSTANTLY EXPODING GRENADES. It makes it especially hard when lag is high and you don't even see the grenades, an all to common effect when there are 20 turrets in base.
This here is Mr. GLer & his other buddy Mr. GLer! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here is their best friend to the end, the armory!
All Mr. GLer & his buddy have to do is reload directly from the armory, bypassing any reload time on their grenade launchers & they can shoot an endless stream of grenades at the enterances into the marine base. As if that wasn't hard enough Mr. GLer & his buddy also brought some more of their friends over! No, not the TSA marines dummy! These guys! <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Drop a couple of Comm Chairs in front of the doors, make more than 1 TF in base, around 3-4; you can do it easily with the RFKs you'll be getting from GL spam & you can force the aliens to eventually F4. Why did the Playtesters & Veterans miss such a gaping hole in balance like this? I suppose they just weren't lame enough to do such a lame strat so don't blame them. I personally would want to see admins on servers start banning people on marines who do the above just to drag out the game for another 2 hours more than it's needed.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Oh wait you were serious
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You think we havn't tried that? Every single bloody thing in this thread has been tried over and over and over again and they DO NOT WORK. If you are up against a marine team that has prepared their spawn specifically for this purpose, you WILL NOT GET IN.
Tell me, does your Fade miraculously avoid the 3 grenade blasts he has to run through? Blink won't save you there: these are constant explosions. If you take carapace, which is the only thing that will get you through without redeeming/dying, you will end up facing quite a few turrets that happily lock onto your now very weakened body. You'll die before you get close to those gl spammers, and that's taking blink into account.
If you have managed to do that, you weren't up against a REAL gl-spammed marine spawn. One of these days I'll have to take a demo of how we do it down under because quite frankly I don't think anyone who says they can easily crack such a base has played against a true gren-spammed marine spawn.
You would die when before you got into the room. If you made it through, the turrets (we're talking true turret farm, 10+ turrets) would mince you like the lasers did that black guy in the hallway in the Resident Evil movie. If you survive the turrets, you will only get a few swipes off before vanilla rines kill you. Rines + focus fire = dead fade.
I have actually done what you suggested before and had it work. But that is with just a few turrets and 1 maybe 2 naders who did not use the armory trick. What people are talking about is a like 15 turrets and a neverending stream of nades at all entrances, even vents. People just sitting there with their finger on their mouse, not even moving. Alines have no direct counter to nades. I have'nt played NS 2.0 for two whole days because I dread this kind of gridlock.
1) Remove Res For Kills. Unlikly, but I never really liked the idea anyway =\ Just seemed counter intuitive to the games ideals.
2) Remove the abliity of the Armory to fill active clips. This would remove the constant-nade-spam-with-armory issue.
Unless you shotgun rush early, I don't see Marines winning very often at all.
Don't tell me you honestly didn't see nade spam in pre 2.0 games. The only difference is that you now reload directly into your gun, so you never have to wait on the 10 second animation. Fix the instant clip, fix most of the problem.
1. Xenocide RIGHT on top of their armory. Thus taking out any nade spammers, and sending Armory humpers flying confused.
2. During the confusion, two onos in charge and whatnot w/ umbra and primal scream support.
4. Fades creat more chaos via acid rockets
5. Gorge bile bomb the crap out of the tfac and ip.
6. Fades blink in and clean up.
7. Rinse, lather, and repeat.
GAME.
But that needs a certain extent of team work, which ALMOST NEVER happens in an endgame on a pub. ITs a bit dissapointing that people don't use xenocide for its side affects, which tear the Naders from their precious armory. Then you can just kill them as they slowly manuver around that huge turret farm.
2) Remove the abliity of the Armory to fill active clips. This would remove the constant-nade-spam-with-armory issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) will give the marines more of a chance against lower tier aliens... I guess I could see how this helps. Smart aliens don't run into GL-spammed locked up marine bases. They usually have a resnode in there, anyway.
2) no. Don't bother. Not again. The *worst* part about 1.04 was this great idea to "make ammo go into reserve and not the gun"
I would save a newbie's shotgun by running out, grabbing it, and taking it back to the base. That shotgun was USELESS for about 30 seconds, due to the buggy reload animations, and the fact that I would get 1/2 a clip, reload it, get the other half a clip. It is even more fun when you have a LMG or HMG. You run out of ammo, go to the armory... and presto, you're a sitting duck for 3x the time it takes a normal human to reload if they had spare ammo. Even though you're at an armory. That cost a lot of resources.
The ammo going to spare clips before into the gun was the only idea I hated as much as the ping of doom. It's a really stupid item that punishes any players who do NOT get 250/30 before leaving the base.
Anyhow, grenade spam did exist in 1.04. All you had to do was to get max ammo, and then the armory would reload your active clip. It's deadlier now because grenades do more damage, turrets are a lot cheaper and better, and marines get res for kill (for more turrets.) In 1.0x without res for kill, aliens could afford to all suicide to kill turrets, the armory, IPs, etc and marines with their 1 res tower couldn't afford to replace them all and they'd eventually lose. Not so in 2.0 because you'll feed them res everytime you try something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People just sitting there with their finger on their mouse, not even moving.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not even that. I just align myself properly, type +use and +attack in the console, and pull out a book. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah, well skulks <b>can</b> get past the nadespam (even if theres multiple GLs) if they do carapace/celerity/leap, but that usually means your very weak and get shot in the air (no, I'm not exeggerating) by sentries. Best way to eliminate marine turtling would be to prevent GLs clip loading automatically from armory or, like I've previously suggested (and probably many others too), that gorge bilebomb would have granade properties (bounces off walls so gorges can destroy sentries behind corners). I don't see how either of these changes would somehow seriously unbalance the game even for clan play. Maybe the gorge BB thing might, but GL not loading straight from armory really wouldn't...
P.S. I know granadespam is pretty much a public problem (although I've seen a scrim where it was done...), but I don't see any point in destroying the fun of 10 alien players just because they can't do flawless teamwork: lerks give umbra when onos charge in and give cover for gorges who BB behind cover while fades blink and kill GLers yadda yadda... I don't see how GL spam can be "justified" so it should be easily countered even if teamwork isn't 100%...