Question About The Shotgun

Maredtext · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">about the model</div> I know that weapon models probably arent a big priority for flayra at this moment, however, I am wondering if there are any plans at all to change the shotgun model.

Right now it is just sort of rediculous that pump shotguns are being used in the uber far future when we have mastered "nano" technology and are able to instantly "phase" living bodies from one spot to another yet you still have to jam your shells into your shotgun and pump it to make it shoot. Basicaly the shotgun doesn't seem to fit the theme of the game. Another problem with the shotgun is that with the changes in fireing speed the animation doesn't work correctly, the pump animation is only about half way done before you can fire off another shot. Since the animation will have to be changed anyway (I assume that the animation will be fixed) you might as well change the model of it as well.

Since I am asking about this I thought I would contribute what I was thinking of in terms of the shotgun. The fireing speed seems sort of fast for a pump, one that I would more expect to see in a semi auto shotgun. The reload animation could also be changed to more of a clip afair, if you had to open the shotgun up a bit to insert a new clip into it (sort of like the hmg) you could make the reload animation just a little bit shorter than loading all the shells into it takes now. This would actually balance the shotguns power out a little (alot of people complain about it currently, though I don't really have a problem with it) because while the total reload time of the shotgun would be shorter you wouldn't be able to start shooting in the middle of the animation.

Sirus · August 2003

The theme of NS is gritty with Einsteinian technology. So lots of technology like insta-transportation and motion tracking and nanites, but old school gritty weapons.

Insane · August 2003

Yeah, what Sirus said. The whole theme of NS is a "gritty" feel, which is why these "old-school" ballistic weapons are being used. I think they managed to get a nice futuristic theme going with the shotgun whilst keeping the cool gitty feel, personally. The shotty would have to be my favourite weapon in terms of style as well as damage and so on. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

coil · August 2003

There are no current plans to change the shotgun. The animations may be tweaked, but that is mostly just a matter of altering the FPS in the compile settings.

Sirus · August 2003

Yah, having a shotgun dropped in your hands during an alien invasion gives you a feeling that only Fam's sig can express.

"Awww Yeah"

Zek · August 2003

A lot of things in NS are very hard to explain in the story. Why don't aliens build anything except a single hive and res node on the ship until they're actually in danger? Why don't marines bring their own supplies? Why can they create a heavy machine gun with nonexistant recoil but can't make it any more accurate, and why can't they get grenades to shoot any farther? How do Lerks stay in the air the way they flap their wings? Why can't the marines use siege technology to kill the aliens from, say, outside the ship?

And the answer is always that it's just a game and nobody really cares about any of that.

typical_skeleton · August 2003

well let's start this off with the obvious: it's a game. and there certain things that should be done solely for "coolness" factor.

but anyway... even today, when we have giant mini-guns that can fire off an insane amount of rounds instantly, you still see people using old-school weapons simply because they like them best.

and yes, even the military uses "out-dated" technology for cost reasons, etc. it's kind of dumb to assume that just because something can be done (though with a lot of money), it will be done.

Maus · August 2003

Two things:

There's a shotgun in <i>Aliens</i>. Therefore I want one in every sci-fi shooter I play <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

The only change to the shotty needed is to make the p_model beefier. It's a puny wee thing at the moment, much smaller than the shotgun in the console background.

lazygamer · August 2003

Ballistic weapons might also still be around because energy weapons might turn out to not be all there cracked up to be, so it's not just gritiness.

Yah I agree about the pump. It's EXTREMELY cool, but semi-autos are cool in their own way too. What about having a magazine reload, but it can be topped off with individual shells? So if the magazine is emptied a full magazine reload is done, but the player is vunerable. When he tops off his shottie, he is not vunerable at all.

Zerogreat · August 2003

As far as i saw the shotgun pumping animation bug (feature? (unwanted?(yes))) is in every mod and in non modded Hl too.

RavenFire · August 2003

I wouldn't be suprised at all if, say a few hundred years in the future, people who need powerful firearms at close range are still using shotguns we'd recognize today.

Your average 12 ga. pump-action is a beautifully simple and functional piece of engineering that's been basically perfect for the last century. Aside from materials improvements and other minor stuff as we come up with better alloys and synthetics, a pump gun from 1890 is the same as a pump gun from 2003.

Firearms, with maybe a few exceptions, are generally quite simpler than you'd expect. When you build one right, you don't really have to change it much, if any, as the years go by to keep it useful. Heck, the Browning .50 cal M2 is a perfect example. It's closing in on 100 years of continuous use by the US Military, and the only changes have been to some of the materials used to build it, in order to cut down on weight. They're not planning on changing it or replacing it anytime soon, 'cause it works perfectly.

It's a case of 'if it's fine, leave it be'.

EDIT: As to an auto-loader in place of the pump gun.... That is something that occured to me too. I wouldn't mind making the shotties upgradable from a 4 or 5 round clip and pump-action, to a 9 or 10 round clip and semi-auto (like a Saiga). While we're on the subject, I wouldn't mind a high-capacity (75, mebbe 100 round) mag upgrade for the LMGs either...

sej · August 2003

Personally id like to see a beefed up model of the shotgun which represents how powerful it is.

Current model looks a bit flimsy.

Invalid_Crash · August 2003

Obviously you have no concept of the future. The future itself will be won and lost with the shotgun, which is obviously the best weapon of all time. You can't improve on it, you can't beat it, it beats you. Laser guns? Give me a break, have a face full of lead punk. The only possibly weapon better than a shotgun that will be devised by man is a shotgun that shoots a denser pellet.

Psycho-Kinetic_Hyper-Geek · August 2003

What about a Metal Storm shotgun which has <i>49 barrels</i>? Huh huh?

Monkeybonk · August 2003

Okay, the point is this (I think)

The current shotgun ROF is so unrealitically high, no one could concievably fire and carry that thing around and pump and fire that fast.

Franchi Spas-12? Why is it pump?

Furthermore, the ROF is faster then the pump animation. So it always looks like you're shooting at the ceiling. They REALLY need to slow the shotgun's ROF down. Furthermore, the shotgun reloads about 40% faster then the animation. I think you only put about 6 shells in it and it says there's 10. Watch the meter and watch the animation. Shells magically appear.

The shotguns weakness should be this: Short-range only, slow reloading, and slow ROF.

It has fast reloading, and a fast ROF... :/

DeadRoach · August 2003

Actually, I usually get Duke Nukem's voice in my head when I get handed a shottie, (WHO WANTS SOME?!)

Some of the posts above pretty much sum up what I was gonna say. If a weapon is simple, and still works, it's gonna be used. The Russian made AK 47 has been around for generations and it's still used around the world because it's cheap to produce, easy to maintain, and accurate if you can find a way to manage the recoil. Same can be said for a shotgun. Simple, yet downright devestating at close range.

But as for the stats on the weapon we use... I've only found the faster ROF on the gun only an issue on the larger aliens such as Fades or Ohnos. Skulks move so fast that a miss is usually lights out for the Marine. I will agree that it is a bit on the fast side, and would support seeing it slowed down if they boosted the damage per shot to keep the damage per sec about the same.

ZERG · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psycho-Kinetic Hyper-Geek @ Aug 24 2003, 09:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What about a Metal Storm shotgun which has <i>49 barrels</i>? Huh huh?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Metal Storm is said to be a gun, but from what I've seen of it it's more of a turret. Awww yeah let's see some metal storm turrets? 1,000,000 rounds per second ahahahaahah H4x.

RavenFire · August 2003

Monkeybonk: Spas-12 has a pump-action mode for lower power rounds (rubber slugs, riot control plugs, etc) that don't have the kick to completely cycle the action. Otherwise it's semi-auto, as is the Benelli M3 (despite what Counter-Strike's altered reality presents).

SrCumference · August 2003

Also, a pump shotgun is much more reliable, I would say. Imagine your shotgun's reloading mechanism goes out as a skulk is about to rip out your throat? I would much rather have control over my shotgun. As was said, it's very simple, and simple things are less prone to problems. Also, despite what some people may say, a shotgun(pump) can be fired <i>very</i> quickly. I mean, I've seen people take out two clays in one go with both shells on the table when they say "pull." They are much quicker than people give them credit for. The pump itself only takes more than a second or two if you're slow. I don't have a problem with the shotgun except that I can never get one.

Although, from a skulk's point of view, I would support slowing it down a little.

Krytos · August 2003

Didn't they increase the ROF as a balance issue? It would completly contradict why they did this if you slowed it down. I like the Shotgun, but the pump animation does need to be changed to fit the new ROF.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

EighteenTwelve · August 2003

"Docking would take far more time and phasing in personel through IPs would be difficult with additional equipment."

What the HELL kind of reason is that?!?! It TAKES longer?!?!? How is an almost guaranteed successful mission not worth it because it would be DIFFICULT TO MOVE STUFF?!?!?

Seriously... ARGH!

MrKNifey · August 2003

Off-Topic, but I'd like to know....

Where in god's name do all the marines come from? I mean, from all the marines that die during a mission, you don't think one measly dropship can hold 400 marines and equipment for them all......do you?

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invalid Crash @ Aug 24 2003, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Obviously you have no concept of the future. The future itself will be won and lost with the shotgun, which is obviously the best weapon of all time. You can't improve on it, you can't beat it, it beats you. Laser guns? Give me a break, have a face full of lead punk. The only possibly weapon better than a shotgun that will be devised by man is a shotgun that shoots a denser pellet.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Er.. most combat currently is engaged in with rifles seeing as how you aren't usually close enough to the enemy for a shotgun. If your close enough for a shotgun to be effective on enemys you are in a bad situation no mater how you look at it (these comments are based on real life, not the game, seeing as how you seemed to be refering to "the future" in real life). So in the future I can very feasibly see some sort of laser gun simply because light isnt as affected by gravity as bullets are. Talk about uber long range killing ability... who cares about a shotgun if you kill them all before they get within 3 miles of you.

MrKNifey · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maredtext @ Aug 25 2003, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invalid Crash @ Aug 24 2003, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Obviously you have no concept of the future. The future itself will be won and lost with the shotgun, which is obviously the best weapon of all time. You can't improve on it, you can't beat it, it beats you. Laser guns? Give me a break, have a face full of lead punk. The only possibly weapon better than a shotgun that will be devised by man is a shotgun that shoots a denser pellet. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Er.. most combat currently is engaged in with rifles seeing as how you aren't usually close enough to the enemy for a shotgun. If your close enough for a shotgun to be effective on enemys you are in a bad situation no mater how you look at it (these comments are based on real life, not the game, seeing as how you seemed to be refering to "the future" in real life). So in the future I can very feasibly see some sort of laser gun simply because light isnt as affected by gravity as bullets are. Talk about uber long range killing ability... who cares about a shotgun if you kill them all before they get within 3 miles of you.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
True....IRL most situations involving shotguns are when you are going to storm a building or something with tight hallways where a shotgun's power would be a large advantage.

Maredtext · August 2003

The point of my post was about the model of the shotgun, I think all other shotgun factors are fine. Many others don't, however, which is why flayra has already changed it a little for 2.1.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Furthermore, the ROF is faster then the pump animation. So it always looks like you're shooting at the ceiling. They REALLY need to slow the shotgun's ROF down. Furthermore, the shotgun reloads about 40% faster then the animation. I think you only put about 6 shells in it and it says there's 10. Watch the meter and watch the animation. Shells magically appear.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

ROF of the shotgun currently is fine. They had to increase it from 1.04 cause no one used it then because it simply was not effective enough for the res cost. If you decrease the rof "alot" as you said it will put it back into the 1.04 not even worth getting situation. Please no one post anything about "well I was good with shotgun in 1.04" because the simple matter of the fact is that shotgun was not cost effective in 1.04.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The shotguns weakness should be this: Short-range only, slow reloading, and slow ROF.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The shotgun already is pretty short range, as for slow reloading and slow rof, why? It had slow rof and reload in 1.04 and it sucked, if you missed even 1 shot on a skulk with it you where penalized with instant death. This entire discussion is pointless anyway, shotgun as already been altered for 2.1.

Paranoia2MB · August 2003

Best way to change this is...
Download a shotty model <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

The Quake 2 shotgun model should fit your needs for a while I presume <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

MrKNifey · August 2003

I really wish someone would model a spas-12, but everyone is either too lazy or doing a bunch of other highly important model work, and I'm totally inept in every aspect of modelling.....oh well.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.KNifey @ Aug 25 2003, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Off-Topic, but I'd like to know....

Where in god's name do all the marines come from? I mean, from all the marines that die during a mission, you don't think one measly dropship can hold 400 marines and equipment for them all......do you? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Clone banks, lots of them.

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paranoia-2MB @ Aug 25 2003, 03:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Best way to change this is...
Download a shotty model <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

The Quake 2 shotgun model should fit your needs for a while I presume <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And then someone gets "cute".

Jabba_The_Hunt · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 24 2003, 11:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> A lot of things in NS are very hard to explain in the story. Why don't aliens build anything except a single hive and res node on the ship until they're actually in danger? Why don't marines bring their own supplies? Why can they create a heavy machine gun with nonexistant recoil but can't make it any more accurate, and why can't they get grenades to shoot any farther? How do Lerks stay in the air the way they flap their wings? Why can't the marines use siege technology to kill the aliens from, say, outside the ship?

And the answer is always that it's just a game and nobody really cares about any of that. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
like what he said.

edit: 3rd page!

anonamous · August 2003

the shot gun is perfectly siuted to spaceship combat, short range isnt a problem when your enemy isnt going to be much further than 30m's away and will be 5m away in a second. plus its spread will allow bad aiming. if the spring on the pump isnt to bad then it can be pumped that fast, just it would still be held in the aiming position. and if you had a couple of rounds in your hand you would only need to reach your palm to get a round to reload, pushing the next round into your fingers with your palm muscles, perhaps after a few rounds you would need to grab a new hand full of rounds. but, say that to speed up reloading of the shotgun the TSA introduced a mechanism simaler to several shotgun barels along the arm, each holding X rounds, the one currently being used then pushes a round into the left palm for loading, when the 10 in that barrel is emptied then it is discarder/rotated and the next one comes into place to further reload. this dosent need to be modled as it wouldnt be noticeable but it would make the current statistics feasable.

and whats wrong with the shotgun moddel? if you ever see a shotgun you will notice there actualy quite small. and i think the shotgun is probably the weapon that is most "grity" in NS. one of the reasons its my favourite.

Question About The Shotgun

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