Grenades Need To Be Looked At.
Teflon
Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20289Members
Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20289Members
Grenades are currently very bug and obscenely powerful.
1) The blast range of the grenades is TREMENDOUS. In the exit hallways from the marine spawn in Tanith, choose the longest one. Have an alien hide in one corner, and in the far corner, fire some grenades. They'll hurt the alien. That's HUGE.
2) They have this awesome ability to clip through walls with their blast. I was playing on Veil with 'Cheez!' and the marines took the double node point. I was in one vent bilebombing, and cheez was in the other. I hear 'Pshoot' 'Pshoot' 'Pshoot' and see some grenades fly past me, and clatter down the vent behind me. "Big deal" I think. "Those grenades are like 20 feet away, and the blast can't hit me where I'm standing." They all explode and I die. Seconds later, Cheez dies and goes "WTH those grenades fell down the vent behind me!"
Coupled with number 1, this makes vents 100% impossible to use. If the marines fire just ONE grenade, and you're anything short of a fade, you need to RUN like it's a nuclear bomb, because it'll just wipe you out.
<span style='color:white'>[edit]</span>Another case: We're on Hera, hiding in the vent by the marine spawn. I see a grenade fly in and land. We all go way back...
And we all die.
No explosion. Nothing. No sound. The grenade just dissapears and we're all instantly dead. This happened like 8 times (After the first time, we watched from WAY down the vent.), and there was NO indication that the grenades were exploding. Furthermore, the blast seemed to come from a spot beyond the grenade. This happens in many MANY vents. <span style='color:white'>[/edit]
Don't doublepost, please.</span>
1) The blast range of the grenades is TREMENDOUS. In the exit hallways from the marine spawn in Tanith, choose the longest one. Have an alien hide in one corner, and in the far corner, fire some grenades. They'll hurt the alien. That's HUGE.
2) They have this awesome ability to clip through walls with their blast. I was playing on Veil with 'Cheez!' and the marines took the double node point. I was in one vent bilebombing, and cheez was in the other. I hear 'Pshoot' 'Pshoot' 'Pshoot' and see some grenades fly past me, and clatter down the vent behind me. "Big deal" I think. "Those grenades are like 20 feet away, and the blast can't hit me where I'm standing." They all explode and I die. Seconds later, Cheez dies and goes "WTH those grenades fell down the vent behind me!"
Coupled with number 1, this makes vents 100% impossible to use. If the marines fire just ONE grenade, and you're anything short of a fade, you need to RUN like it's a nuclear bomb, because it'll just wipe you out.
<span style='color:white'>[edit]</span>Another case: We're on Hera, hiding in the vent by the marine spawn. I see a grenade fly in and land. We all go way back...
And we all die.
No explosion. Nothing. No sound. The grenade just dissapears and we're all instantly dead. This happened like 8 times (After the first time, we watched from WAY down the vent.), and there was NO indication that the grenades were exploding. Furthermore, the blast seemed to come from a spot beyond the grenade. This happens in many MANY vents. <span style='color:white'>[/edit]
Don't doublepost, please.</span>
Comments
Secondly, don't double post to bump your own thread.
I've experienced this one. I believe this is an isolated problem with the map, not the nades. I've never seen a grenade go through a wall (or floor) anywhere else.
And also, his double post was only 3 minutes apart. He should have used Edit, but he really wasnt bumping his own thread or anything.
Declined. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. They have a very slow reload time. And even if you reload once it seems to play the animation 4 times anyway.
2. If you get right up to a grenade launcher using marine he is out of luck. He ether shoots and blows you and himself up or he doesn't shoot and dies.
3. Grenades are hard to aim and bounce in odd directions. Not to mention they dont' detonate instantly unless they hit something living. Therefore they can be rather easy to dodge.
If your an onos and complaining about grenades then you shouldn't be. If your a skulk then you should use leap to get closer or not let the grenade person see you.
But many of these "bugs" happen in 90% every HL mod to ever use grenades. as someone else noted, most are just caused by the engine itself.
I've never seen an HL mod manage to get all walls entirely explosion-proof. Only game I've played that has that is Wolfenstein.. hiding in a bunker while an "airstrike" goes off right outside the door is pretty intense. Wish HL could do that, but..
GLs are funny. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Play marines for a game and youll see why we need a GL to keep a vent bilebomber at bay, k?
Play marines for a game and youll see why we need a GL to keep a vent bilebomber at bay, k? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're building under a vent you DESERVE to be bilebombed, you don't deserve some shoot-through-walls nuclear death device. There's a reason the double node in Veil has two vents: To make it dangerous for marines to relocate there. This stupid bug means that there's no point.
Grenade Launcher is:
1) relatively expensive (if you consider armory upgrade too)
2) VERY low ammo and VERY SLOW reload
3) 2.01 beta has changed armory reloading so spamming is not possible
4) renders weilder basically entirely helpless to direct attack
5) half the time marines can't even get a grenade in the vent, it just bounces back and kills them
So if you hear grenades, run until 4 are fired, then run back.
Play marines for a game and youll see why we need a GL to keep a vent bilebomber at bay, k? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're building under a vent you DESERVE to be bilebombed, you don't deserve some shoot-through-walls nuclear death device. There's a reason the double node in Veil has two vents: To make it dangerous for marines to relocate there. This stupid bug means that there's no point. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If Veil is the map I'm thinking of, the double node room is seigable from marine start which is either already a bug, or the mapper obviously didn't want aliens building there. Just because marines deserve to be bile bombed doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to counter.
Um.. so we shouldn't take res nodes under vents simply because you hate being blown up by grenades?
Okay, let's use YOUR logic... if you're bilebombing FROM a vent, you deserve to be blown up through a wall by a 'nade!
It's a stupid thing to say. What makes you think marines deserve to be bilbebombed but you don't deserve to be blown up even from a location that you believe to be "safe"?
GL's aren't that rampant in early game. If you encounter an LA with a GL, just skulk rush him.. almost nothing for him to do. Not to mention that sporing from the vent before bilebombing will also get rid of the LA with GL, most of the time.
If it's late enough in the game that they have HA's with GL, you probably shouldn't be up in a vent trying to bilebomb stuff anyway, but instead focusing on getting rid of the HA's and doing hive defense, or main base offense.
The GL is not, IMO, overpowered at all, especially with the new forced-reload.
Don't just ask that they change everything for your sake, actually think about the big picture. If you can't figure out how to avoid being blown up even after knowing all the quirks of the game, then maybe you just aren't that good, or aren't focusing on changing your play style to suit the situation.
Edit: Besides, if GL is overpowered then Bilebomb most certainly is. You don't even need res for THAT.
Um.. so we shouldn't take res nodes under vents simply because you hate being blown up by grenades?
Okay, let's use YOUR logic... if you're bilebombing FROM a vent, you deserve to be blown up through a wall by a 'nade!
It's a stupid thing to say. What makes you think marines deserve to be bilbebombed but you don't deserve to be blown up even from a location that you believe to be "safe"?
GL's aren't that rampant in early game. If you encounter an LA with a GL, just skulk rush him.. almost nothing for him to do. Not to mention that sporing from the vent before bilebombing will also get rid of the LA with GL, most of the time.
If it's late enough in the game that they have HA's with GL, you probably shouldn't be up in a vent trying to bilebomb stuff anyway, but instead focusing on getting rid of the HA's and doing hive defense, or main base offense.
The GL is not, IMO, overpowered at all, especially with the new forced-reload.
Don't just ask that they change everything for your sake, actually think about the big picture. If you can't figure out how to avoid being blown up even after knowing all the quirks of the game, then maybe you just aren't that good, or aren't focusing on changing your play style to suit the situation.
Edit: Besides, if GL is overpowered then Bilebomb most certainly is. You don't even need res for THAT. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say 'OMG Gernades shuldn't fit into vent it r not fare!!!', the vent in Veil is DESIGNED so that grenades can't hit you. However, this wallhacking grenade blast completely eliminates that. Meanwhile, marines can SIEGE that room from their spawn, and I don't see any hacking counter the aliens have to THAT.
Yeah, they can siege it from spawn.. you know what the counter is? <i>Don't take NanoGrid.</i>
Wow, is that so complex? Whenever I comm on Veil, I tell my marines not to go for Nano.. because the aliens all rush there, we get 3-4 other res nodes, plus a hive, lock it down, then just siege nano.. and take it.
That's called strategy. Also exploiting the weakness of the enemy, as well as the terrain.
What you're saying sounds like, to me... "Hey, I don't like to be shot! Remove shooting!"...
yeah, grenades go through walls, .. in HL, almost every explosion goes through a wall. This is a quirk of the engine, and I don't believe it can be fixed. You'll have to accept it and learn to get around it. Not even close to "hacking".
NS is a complex game, built on complex code.. things don't always go along with real life logic or physics, or can't, even. Doesn't mean they're "broken" -- it's just how they are, and it's just something you have to live with.
Just as you said about bilebombing, if you're doing it from a vent, or doing anything in a vent, you "deserve" to get torn apart by a grenade... that's what grenades are for -- indirect fire. Whether it falls through the wall or not because of an HL engine bug is irrelevant.
A counter to a bilebomber from above or in the vents would be Mr. Nade Launcher.
Truth is same thing happened to me on veil in nano-grid status in another game again. Bile bombing, nades fall behind me, i think "meh im far away", DEAD.
Problem is it might be harder to make nades not work through walls than it is to say...how spores won't work through walls. Still hope it's adressed though.
Bilebomb goes through walls, to get the marine RTs in the double res in veil simply bile directly below them (use map to coordinate). Not a solution but useful for most. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
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It may be huge, most most of the damage is lost at that distance. Even as a skulk, you'll probably survive a few.
In Firearms, grenade blasts do not go through any type of wall. No idea if its worth the trouble of putting this feature into NS, simply commenting that Ive seen HL mods that have eliminated explosions going through walls.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW I can't seem to hit an onos with grenades although I swear I saw the nades fly INTO it. Seems like it is also possible to walk into an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was a very good post about onos tracehulls or whatever they are a couple days ago. Basicly, when looking at an onos from the side, there is a very small portion of the onos body that is actually hittable, and its right in the center. Id say the width of this area is about a 1/7 or an 1/8 the total length of the onos. Although, shooting the onos head on will usually yeild a hit, as even though this hitbox or whatever is very narrow from a side angle, its just right from a head on angle. Hard to explain, dig up the thread.
Yes grenades are powerful, no they are not overpowered. Most of the time as an alien you can run - with celerity straight through grenade spam with very minor injury. Even as a skulk if the GL'ers dont get a direct or near direct hit you wont be badly hurt. Normally I wait to see and explosion (or four in the case of amatuer spammage) and charge through before the dust settles.
The GL is an advanced weapon and requires practice and skill to use effectively, it also requires teamwork or the GL'er will be taken out by a single skulk.