Standing On The Phasegate
Captain_Chaos
Join Date: 2003-01-22 Member: 12571Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-01-22 Member: 12571Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Is this blocking intentional?</div> Ok, a tactic I've seen lately now that you can't get telefragged on a phasegate is for an onos with regeneration to stand on top of the phasegate and gore it with impunity while the marines are unable to phase through. Coms are screaming at their "nub" players to take the phasegate while the marines stand around it pounding "use" while they can't figure out why it isn't working.
Is this intentional? I understand that getting telefragged by a fellow marine was annoying, but this new tactic makes phasegates next to useless.
If possible, it would be nice if it is impossible for marines to telefrag each other, but can still telefrag aliens. Or even just changing it back to the old "get off the phase gate or die" arrangement would be better than what it is now.
Is this intentional? I understand that getting telefragged by a fellow marine was annoying, but this new tactic makes phasegates next to useless.
If possible, it would be nice if it is impossible for marines to telefrag each other, but can still telefrag aliens. Or even just changing it back to the old "get off the phase gate or die" arrangement would be better than what it is now.
Comments
its no problem unless you stop humping.
<a href='http://www.caleague.com/?page=news&div=natsl' target='_blank'>http://www.caleague.com/?page=news&div=natsl</a>
If the alien is standing on the phase gate...
1) You have ***NO*** turrets there.
2) You have ***NO*** marines there.
This means that you either truely SUCK, or you had ONE marine build a phase gate. Phase technology allows an entire team of marines to suddenly appear in your base. If you don't defend it, you do NOT deserve to have reinforcements teleported through.
Example: A jetpacker built a phase gate near our vent hive. I blinked over and killed him, but he finished it.
Now: I can let the marines use this CHEAP BUILDING which can be BUILT ANYWHERE and let the HAs come through...
Or the marine team can pay for it because they only sent ONE guy to build it. They didn't defend it, they don't deserve to use it.
EDIT: Just to clarify: <b><span style='color:red'>Phase Gates are VERY cheap, very quick to build, and have <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>NO</span> counter. The only counter to an undefended phase gate is to stand on it. Standing on the phase gate is the same as welding a vent. It denies access to a certain area.
And again: THEY'RE VERY CHEAP - WHO CARES IF YOU LOOSE IT.</b></span>
That's a good point: I think I'll do that. Don't destroy the PG, just keep stomping and devouring the marines racking up kills.
And if the make the PG telefrag... WOOT! Watch the marines explode each other as I stomp them!
Yea but not if its just a lone skulk :/
Yea but not if its just a lone skulk :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's just a lone skulk and you were too stupid, poor, or lazy to build a turret, or send a SQUAD of marines and not just one, you deserve to loose that phase gate too.
Put it this way: If you don't like aliens standing on PGs... <b>BUILD TWO! THEY'RE ONLY 15 RES!</b>
If standing on the PG is an exploit, then so is knifing eggs to death. If the marines are allowed to fly into my base and quick build a PG and send HAs through, then the marines shouldn't be allwed to knife my egg when I run in their base as a skulk and quick go onos.
<b>ITS THE SAME THING</b> You deny them an undefended asset!
Yea but not if its just a lone skulk :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's just a lone skulk and you were too stupid, poor, or lazy to build a turret, or send a SQUAD of marines and not just one, you deserve to loose that phase gate too.
Put it this way: If you don't like aliens standing on PGs... <b>BUILD TWO! THEY'RE ONLY 15 RES!</b>
If standing on the PG is an exploit, then so is knifing eggs to death. If the marines are allowed to fly into my base and quick build a PG and send HAs through, then the marines shouldn't be allwed to knife my egg when I run in their base as a skulk and quick go onos.
<b>ITS THE SAME THING</b> You deny them an undefended asset! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes no sense at all.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey dont get me wrong, I really have no problem with it. I was just bringing up a point.
Yea but not if its just a lone skulk :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's just a lone skulk and you were too stupid, poor, or lazy to build a turret, or send a SQUAD of marines and not just one, you deserve to loose that phase gate too.
Put it this way: If you don't like aliens standing on PGs... <b>BUILD TWO! THEY'RE ONLY 15 RES!</b>
If standing on the PG is an exploit, then so is knifing eggs to death. If the marines are allowed to fly into my base and quick build a PG and send HAs through, then the marines shouldn't be allwed to knife my egg when I run in their base as a skulk and quick go onos.
<b>ITS THE SAME THING</b> You deny them an undefended asset! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes no sense at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How?
The marines left the PG undefended, why should they be allowed to suddenly conjure marines in HA to defend it?
If I'm in an egg and a marine finds me, I can't just magically cancel the evolution as a way to stop from getting knifed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey dont get me wrong, I really have no problem with it. I was just bringing up a point. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you could just say that the onos smashes the phase gate into dust when he stands on it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The last thing I want is the PG to telefrag. I constantly get stuck in other marines, and IPs are bad enough when they're poorly placed.
Do you know how long it takes a marine to build a phase gate alone? Seconds. Do you know how quickly a jetpack marine can get from the marine spawn in Hera to the Archiving hive? Seconds. Do you know how much warning you get that a jetpacking marine is coming? None. Do you know how well O chambers do against Jetpackers? Poorly.
It takes about a minute, maybe less, for a lone jetpacker to quickly get to your hive and just plop one down.
Maybe shooting unbuilt O chambers should be an exploit too? After all, you LET the gorge get in your base.
EDIT: Just to clarify: <b><span style='color:red'>Phase Gates are VERY cheap, very quick to build, and have <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>NO</span> counter. The only counter to an undefended phase gate is to stand on it. Standing on the phase gate is the same as welding a vent. It denies access to a certain area.
And again: THEY'RE VERY CHEAP - WHO CARES IF YOU LOOSE IT.</b></span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm Teflon it would appear you have an extremely biased and limited view of phase gates.
For a start PG's have several weaknesses:
-Low Health
-Produce light and noise
-Impossible to surprise an enemy when phasing.
2-3 Skulks can <b>easily</b> block a phase without standing on it simply by eating the marines that phase through. Marines have no way to control how they will come through the PG and aliens know exactly where they will be coming from. Lerks can effectively block them well with Spores and spike them down very quickly. Bilebombs decimate phases so quickly its not even funny. These counters all cost 30 res or less and 2/3 are available from the start of the game.
If marines get a PG in a good location then they deserve to be able to hold it provided they defend it. Currently even a well defended PG will go down due to blockage.
Build TF + turrets you say? How many? A regen onos shrugs off less than 5 turrets with ease. If you add umbra you'll need around 15 turrets to deter the onos. Also almost NO PG's that get blocked are undefended.
And saying "WHO CARE IF YOU LOSE IT" contradicts what you said. You complain about PG's being overpowered and then imply they are worthless?
As to your 'example' if the marine team had JP + HA you had lost the game. The PG only sped things up (as you seem like a moaner you probably complained about 'marines taking too long'). The marines <i>could</i> have 'welder train'ed into your hive but that would take longer.
To surmise Teflon I suggest you get some marine experience on some good servers. You'll quickly see they are not overpowered.
The marines left the PG undefended, why should they be allowed to suddenly conjure marines in HA to defend it?
If I'm in an egg and a marine finds me, I can't just magically cancel the evolution as a way to stop from getting knifed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, who ever said that the phase gate was undefended? So I didn't go into detail about possible situations, but the point of the regenerating onos was that it could take the hits from the nearby 5 or 6 turrets easily and have time to destroy the phase gate at its leisure. My point was that you can lose a perfectly well-defended base to the aliens simply because you can't bring reinforcements in.
Turrets are not meant to be the sole base defense. They are meant to delay the aliens long enough to get your marines there. If you can't phase in, you can't provide the manpower necessary to adequately defend the outpost.
The marines left the PG undefended, why should they be allowed to suddenly conjure marines in HA to defend it?
If I'm in an egg and a marine finds me, I can't just magically cancel the evolution as a way to stop from getting knifed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, who ever said that the phase gate was undefended? So I didn't go into detail about possible situations, but the point of the regenerating onos was that it could take the hits from the nearby 5 or 6 turrets easily and have time to destroy the phase gate at its leisure. My point was that you can lose a perfectly well-defended base to the aliens simply because you can't bring reinforcements in.
Turrets are not meant to be the sole base defense. They are meant to delay the aliens long enough to get your marines there. If you can't phase in, you can't provide the manpower necessary to adequately defend the outpost. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Almost every time I've stood on a PG it was because ONE marine was building it.
1) A marine built a PG near the vent hive in Hera. We killed him, they got one HA through, and we ate him. As skulks.
2) A lone JP marine built a PG at the double node in Caged. I swiped him and stood on the PG.
3) TWO marines were building a PG right outside sewer hive. Both were. None were guarding. CHOMP CHOMP.
An onos standing on a PG is pretty crap, I admit.
How about: Make PGs require an observatory to be built in the area first?
Marines have no way of countering / blocking a movement chamber, why should aliens have a method of blocking a phase?
and yes i appreciate phase is more powerful than movement, but also sensory - marines can completely waste the use of a sensory by spending some energy.. only way for aliens to counter some thing like MT is to get right into the marine base.
is a game - life goes on
It can't JUST telefrag aliens. So it WILL telefrag marines.
And then the marines will **** that they just lost 40 res HA and HMG. Or they'll **** that you can stand on the PG.
It's only going to work one way: Would you rather CONSTANTLY be telefragging other marines, or not?
Yea but not if its just a lone skulk :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's just a lone skulk and you were too stupid, poor, or lazy to build a turret, or send a SQUAD of marines and not just one, you deserve to loose that phase gate too.
Put it this way: If you don't like aliens standing on PGs... <b>BUILD TWO! THEY'RE ONLY 15 RES!</b>
If standing on the PG is an exploit, then so is knifing eggs to death. If the marines are allowed to fly into my base and quick build a PG and send HAs through, then the marines shouldn't be allwed to knife my egg when I run in their base as a skulk and quick go onos.
<b>ITS THE SAME THING</b> You deny them an undefended asset! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes no sense at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You got that right.
the current PG is like this
<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>
A round plateform where more than 1 person can phase at a time, but you run into the problem in this thread, becasue there is no telefragings anymore, players can block the PG making it useless.
Why not make the PG like this
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
5 different areas to Phase to
like when you place more IPs, it will spawn you in differnt ones.
then you could have telefraging back on, and having 5 ppl jump into the phase at once wouldnt matter.
Example
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
___________________________________________
.....<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>
.....<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
each Mrine would get a different portal of the phase to port to.
depending on how many ppl are going through.
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
________________________________________________
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span><span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>
.....<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>O</span></span>....
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
You dont need to make it any bigger, just change the way it looks.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(I really just wanted to do some neat pic example.. I dont really care about my idea)</span>
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Scouting is really important in defending outpost. i mean u can save ur outpost if you know there is a onos and lerk on there way to the outpost.
But when you notice ur outpost is in danger at the moment the onos is standing on top of the pg, dont be surprised to lose it.
But on the other hand its nicer for the action and heroism if its getting fixed so you cant block.
More like the alien/marine on top of the phase is getting pushed back if a other marine enters . (and i mean 'pushed back' the way xeno-skulk pushes marines back. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Either way i dont mind using blocking pg in the current version, aslong as the server rules dont object.
but it is even nicer if it is getting fixed but without telefragging
Here is the scenerio. Marines had snuk past OCs into the eclipse hive and built a phase/TF/turrets. Our team should be paid more attention, but they didn't. Instead several gorges blocked of both exits with walls of OCs and SCs for the skulks. Marines that wondered outside the hive died in seconds.
So, I figured I would test out a few tricks. I cloaked and walked (2.01d) into the hive past, not one, not 2, but 3 rows of turrets and 4 marines, onto the phase. Once there I stayed cloaked and told everyone else to rush the place. Since they could not reinforce, the hive fell quickly, all because I could simply stand there.
Granted, it was cheap, but this just goes to show you that unless you are 100% aware of this, you wouldn't think to look for a cloaked skulk on your phase! These guys had done everything right and I could foil it by simply walking in.