Marine Base Exploit

Lordcyris · September 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">question regarding</div> i have played many ns_veil maps on alot of servers and have been told that sieging the double from marine spawn is an exploit..
Is this true?
arent sieges supposed to go thru walls?
and if they can reach why not use them?

i am sick of different ppl giving me different answers to this topic

i would be greatful for any information on this
thanks

Geminosity · September 2003

It's not so much an exploit as bad map design =s

Tyrain · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Sep 11 2003, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It's not so much an exploit as bad map design =s  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I second that. I mean u "can" do that. But it's not nice to use a mistake in the mapdesign to your advantage.

Tiax · September 2003

Was it a mistake? I don't even know which map viel is but it seems like the designer may have intentionally did it. Then the marines would have a reason to stay in their base--they could prevent aliens from getting two res nodes (which is actually quite a bit).

eL_DonkeY · September 2003

I like it.

MrMojo · September 2003

Considering marines have no harm in sieging the double node, it should be changed. This is much different from building it outside the room, trying to get it up before the skulks kill you.

Ollj · September 2003

wow,l you can place 7 sieges in marine spawn that can reach both resnodes.
There must be a reason why i newer saw this while aliens always used map exploits on hera for example...
Maybe because ITS A STUPID IDEA and anyone who found out this siege range also found out its not worth it.

Ive seen many games with marines spending much in killing/holding doubleres, meanwhile aliens got 3 hives....

ssjyoda · September 2003

I think its fine. Myself, I like to design lil things into my maps like that. Its just not something everyone should know about, but find out themselves. If its a mistake, oops, if not, nice. Either way, it does help the marines. Not like there aren't many other RT aliens can cap. I always tell ppl that if marines wana rush double res and sit there, and give us the rest of the nodes, fine with me.

Trojan2 · September 2003

seems to me that it balences (sorta) the fact that gorge with regen in vent can ruin rine base there.

othell · September 2003

Its not an exploit.

End of story. It is not something that needs to be worried over.

Gliss · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trojan2 @ Sep 11 2003, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> seems to me that it balences (sorta) the fact that gorge with regen in vent can ruin rine base there.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, NanoGrid (is that the name? Haven't played NS forever) is equally hard for both sides to take.

kltower4 · September 2003

Seiging Double RES NODE FROM MARINE START?!?! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

HOW? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'>

Untitled · September 2003

Well, its all due part of bad map design. You swear like all these map features were meant to be, and is flawless in every way.

I could name like three or four map flaws.....

Just hope some great and mysterious mapmaker would make all these troubles go away, and make some grand, perfect and fun map.

ssjyoda · September 2003

you dont know if its a flaw or not. Me, I purposely put things like that to just screw with the players. Makes the game much more interesting.

Paranoia2MB · September 2003

Mistake my ****, exploit my ****.

It's their, so I'll use it if I have to.

And balance? Hah, aliens have the huge majority of RTs anways. It's more balance for the Marines on that man imo.

kthxbyelol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

Amelek · September 2003

Personally, I think being able to siege the double res from marine spawn in veil is not a map flaw, but instead adds some very interesting lines for the marines to play. If marines want, they can risk putting up early sieges to deny the aliens the double nodes ... instead of teching/attacking/securing base. Just because this is the only map where you can siege 2 nodes from spawn does not make it a flaw or imbalance ... merely one of the unique features of veil. In much the same way as the deathtrap known as marine spawn in bast is a map feature

And yes, there is harm created to the marines by sieging the double nodes. advanced tf + obs + siege = 50 res. Now, if you didn't siege the double res you could have had armor 1 upgrading, possibly 3 more RT's, or 5 shotguns killing enemy RTs. Personally, I think its a fair tradeoff. Any action that the marines take always involves some risk ... that being the risk of wasting res that could have been used more effectively. One pub game on ns_veil, I set up early double res sieges but the aliens never built anything in there <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> ... and its damn useless for the marines to build there either. It was a decidedly painful game that we lost simply because one alien understood what I was doing and warned his team.

Gliss · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kltower4 @ Sep 11 2003, 06:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Seiging Double RES NODE FROM MARINE START?!?! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

HOW? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Sometimes you place a turret factory, and if you're sure you know which way NanoGrid is, you place a Siege cannon on the wall closest to it, build observatory, scan, and boom!

Sieginated.

fo_sheezy_my_neezy · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paranoia-2MB @ Sep 11 2003, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Mistake my ****, exploit my ****.

It's their, so I'll use it if I have to.

And balance? Hah, aliens have the huge majority of RTs anways. It's more balance for the Marines on that man imo.

kthxbyelol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
YEAH!!111 same with phases SUCKAS, it's there, SO USE IT. OMG HELL YA. /sarcasm

your logic is inherently flawed. For the most part (until KFS gives official word), it's just a lame tactic, not an exploit. Most comms know that, and don't do it.

Stoneburg · September 2003

I agree with Amalek and I also think it is <b>embarrasing</b> that people cry "exploit" at every little thing that doesn't conform with their limited view of how the game "should" be played.

I doubt it is a "map flaw" or "bad design". I think it's a creative way if making the most desirable area of the map almost impossible to hold for both teams. Marines can siege it from base, aliens have two comfy vents to bilebomb it from.

If Marines decide to siege it right away they just wasted a LOAD of res on killing 2 alien RT's. Not only do you need an upgraded TF, but either multiple sieges or multiple observatories to take it out without going there. And if you go there, what does it matter if you're sieging it from base or not?

What's next? Building multple IP's is an exploit? Putting mines on phasegates? Oh wait, HA welding eachother, right?

Amelek · September 2003

I consider this just as rediculous as the time I was banned from a server for 'exploiting' ns_mineshaft. What did I do? I sieged refinery (double res) from the base I built in sleeping quarters. Apparently the aliens didn't think I should be able to siege from there. Now, you can think that sieging nanogrid from MS is a lame tactic, its your right, but some of you are suggesting that this activity needs to stop. Despite how some people are reacting here, this tactic is not uncounterable ... nor is it particularly effective. But it is a VALID strategy, and inherent in that declaration is some element of risk and reward. The reward is not having to spend res and/or manpower to deny the double res ... the risk is in your spending 1/2 of your starting res in a way that neither expands, techs, or defends.

And seriously ... do you think they purposely put in those 2 little rooms with VENTS without the thought that marines would put stuff in them ...

G8T0R · September 2003

if thats an exploit then i say Red Room in Nothing is also an exploit... or as you guys say a "design mistake". all i think is that its legit, if a seige can reach then its siegable <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

cat_poop_waffles_for_justice · September 2003

I'm positive it was on purpose. The two rooms have vents, as said before, and only seem to be there to reach for siege. I see it as intentional as the little room on bast that allows you to siege engine from the vents, and any room near a double res that is within siege range. yes it is generally a waste of resources to siege it out first unless they built all thier ocs against the north wall. You can't reach the entrances from marine start so I really do think it was intentional.

Marine Base Exploit

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