What Idea Is In Rush?

Pyroclasm_Inferno · September 2003

i think rushing is only stupid because all game fun goes to that stupid rush

lilbadwolf · September 2003

You are right. There is basically no idea in rushing and ending a game in 5 minutes.
Maybe in a clanmatch that would be considered as a tactic but there is no idea to rush in a pub game.
Because the reason you go to a pub server is to have a good game with lots of fighting over res nodes and hives. At least thats why I play.

I know the NS gameplay has become more and more like CS. "Im the "elite" and pwn all your base are belong 2 us". And its all about getting a good score and the game has to been played in a "right" way.
If you try anything else you are the "omg n00b". Thats really sad because I think NS is a game that supports creativity but all the players just dont understand that.
I remember when I played 1.0 and we used to have games that lasted like 2-3 hours. That was just so fun. Nowadays when a game last for more than a hour everbody starts whining and drops out.
I wish that NS could have a more mature community like before.

/just my 2 euros

Lito · September 2003

Marines are sufficient enough to hold off a rush if you'd stop building and actually face them when you heard them coming. Have one guy go outside a little and when he hears something alets the others. stop building, face forward and shoot. the small, but crucial distance advantage you have is quite enough, even for the n00biest of marines

tankefugl · September 2003

Well, it's a gamble. It can give you a lot of good RFK if the aliens are good enough/marines are bad enough.

monkeymaster · September 2003

i like rushing with aliens and eating there ip's hehe..

--
btw stormy you stole my nick
--

*****.

PseudoKnight · September 2003

Rushing adds spice to NS. Don't dismiss it so easily.

Rue · September 2003

Rushs win clan games , good alien team can kill mairnes in 2 rushs.

Frogg2 · September 2003

BGH NR20min NOOBS ONLY OR BAN!!1 KEKEKE

JimBowen · September 2003

The way I see it is marines need to use up some off their early res on mines, defending thier base with mines or a TF. IF they cut corners and try to use thier res to expand fast, then the aliens face losing the game to a marine team with 5 rts after 2 minutes. Therefore the aliens have too rush.

2of12B0RG · September 2003

This is a RTS game is it not? When I play Warcraft 3, rushing is my number one strength. It hurts, disables, and sometimes gets you the win. Why not do it in NS? Even if it ends the game in 2-5 minutes.... don't you end up in the ready room and start another game?

Edcrab · September 2003

They're a valid tactic. Doesn't mean you have to like them, mind <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

I'll admit that I prefer longer, more involving games myself... sometimes of course, a rush happens, and due to lack of luck or skill (or too much of it in the opposition) the game ends, a new one begins, and it might all happen again <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

CplHicks · September 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> I must say rushes are a welcome supplement to those eternal lasting stalemate matches I use to see recently.

Actually I had some of the best games last night where rushing was the primary tactic of both teams. Rush Counterrush Rush...
"I SAID MOVE SOLDIER! YOU ARE CANNONFODDER AND SUPPOSED TO DIE!" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Marines lost, but this was because the Comm didnt issue shotties. But it was helluva fun!!!
After 5 minutes Fades came, we were all runing around circles, Fades swiping, Marines in lack of ammo knifing, rarely laughed so hard in an NS game! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Teflon · September 2003

Skulk rush is inevitable. You'll NEED to skulk rush no matter what, or the marines get way too much of a headstart.

Shotgun rushes that end the game in less then 2 minutes are a llamas tactic. The same people that shotgun rush are the same people in school that'd **** and moan about gym class and how games were pointless.

lolfighter · September 2003

Indeed, if you don't skulk rush, and your opponent knows it, they can leave their base and focus on taking over the map instead. By rushing them you force them to concentrate more on defense. If a skulk rush ends a game it's because either <ul>
<li>the rines gambled and hoped that the aliens wouldn't rush, moving out to take key locations instead or
<li>the rines were there defending, but couldn't hold the rush off.</ul>
In either case, the marines are to blame. In the first case, they used a high-risk strategy that would have paid off huge if it had worked, but didn't. In the second case, they just weren't good enough.

DeadlyEagle · September 2003

you all talking about skull rushes but when the hive is close enough a shotgun rush can b just as effective. The prob is if it fails you will have lost the round before it started..

AjaxFisk · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 12 2003, 10:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Skulk rush is inevitable. You'll NEED to skulk rush no matter what, or the marines get way too much of a headstart.

Shotgun rushes that end the game in less then 2 minutes are a llamas tactic. The same people that shotgun rush are the same people in school that'd **** and moan about gym class and how games were pointless.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Wonder how that connection was made <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Teflon · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadlyEagle @ Sep 12 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you all talking about skull rushes but when the hive is close enough a shotgun rush can b just as effective. The prob is if it fails you will have lost the round before it started..  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Exactly. Either way, a shotgun rush ends the game in a few minutes, wether it fails or not. Shotgun rushes are pointless and NOT FUN at all, and frankly, should be taken out of the early game to prevent rushing. Anything that can 'end the game' so quickly and inevitably is crap. Imagine if the onos had all abilities at hive 1.

Dukat · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 13 2003, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadlyEagle @ Sep 12 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you all talking about skull rushes but when the hive is close enough a shotgun rush can b just as effective. The prob is if it fails you will have lost the round before it started.. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Exactly. Either way, a shotgun rush ends the game in a few minutes, wether it fails or not. Shotgun rushes are pointless and NOT FUN at all, and frankly, should be taken out of the early game to prevent rushing. Anything that can 'end the game' so quickly and inevitably is crap. Imagine if the onos had all abilities at hive 1.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You say that anything that can end a game should be taken out of the early game right? Well what about those game ending skulk rushes that most people are talking about? Those can end a game very fast with just the skulk bitegun. Do you want skulks to have just parasite as their main weapon early game then? Shotguns are aviable early game to help counter those early game skulk rushes. a comm drops a couple of shottys those marines stand guard while the others build, skulk rush comes in the shottys will give the others time to stop building and help defend at least. Games are ended by rushes because of lack of preparation, simple as that. Expect a rush every game, to stop shotty rushes uses ambush tatics, get the marines from behind.

tanathos · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lilbadwolf @ Sep 12 2003, 09:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I remember when I played 1.0 and we used to have games that lasted like 2-3 hours. That was just so fun. Nowadays when a game last for more than a hour everbody starts whining and drops out.
I wish that NS could have a more mature community like before.

/just my 2 euros  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I had a game the other day (I think it was on CoFR), on Ns_Hera, where it took us about 2 hours to finish the game. And nobody complained because it was a constant : back and forth all over the map. One moment the alien seemed to be losing, the other it was the marines, then the aliens again. It was that for 2 hours. What people complain about long game is when there isn't enough team-work on the alien team, and they can't finish off the marines base quicker then in 30 minutes (wich add up to a one hour game).

Axehilt · September 2003

Rushes are necessary in a game to add strategic depth. Whether those rushes are overpowered or not is another story, though.

Balanced rushes are necessary to prevent "booming" from being the <i>only</i> strategy. The key is <i>balancing</i> those rushes so that a sufficiently prepared team can beat them.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I had a game the other day (I think it was on CoFR), on Ns_Hera, where it took us about 2 hours to finish the game. And nobody complained because it was a constant : back and forth all over the map. One moment the alien seemed to be losing, the other it was the marines, then the aliens again. It was that for 2 hours.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yup, I've had games like that recently too. And they're <i>much</i> funner than 1.04 because they're back and forth battles. Owning 2 hives is no longer the end for either side, so long as you're crafty. (:

rennex · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 13 2003, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadlyEagle @ Sep 12 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you all talking about skull rushes but when the hive is close enough a shotgun rush can b just as effective. The prob is if it fails you will have lost the round before it started.. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Exactly. Either way, a shotgun rush ends the game in a few minutes, wether it fails or not. Shotgun rushes are pointless and NOT FUN at all, and frankly, should be taken out of the early game to prevent rushing. Anything that can 'end the game' so quickly and inevitably is crap. Imagine if the onos had all abilities at hive 1.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Wow.

Firewater · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lilbadwolf @ Sep 12 2003, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You are right. There is basically no idea in rushing and ending a game in 5 minutes.
Maybe in a clanmatch that would be considered as a tactic but there is no idea to rush in a pub game.
Because the reason you go to a pub server is to have a good game with lots of fighting over res nodes and hives. At least thats why I play.

I know the NS gameplay has become more and more like CS. "Im the "elite" and pwn all your base are belong 2 us". And its all about getting a good score and the game has to been played in a "right" way.
If you try anything else you are the "omg n00b". Thats really sad because I think NS is a game that supports creativity but all the players just dont understand that.
I remember when I played 1.0 and we used to have games that lasted like 2-3 hours. That was just so fun. Nowadays when a game last for more than a hour everbody starts whining and drops out.
I wish that NS could have a more mature community like before.

/just my 2 euros  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Whats the right way of playing? I always thought getting the W and having fun was the right way to play. Also if Marines get skulk rushed, what do you think would happen in the middle of the game ? Its a way on pubs to end a game with lopsided skill, and maybe balance out the next game.

Not everyone has 2-3 hrs to play a game, some of us have school work and jobs to hold down.

Pyroclasm_Inferno · September 2003

its good to rush in wc3 and cs but not in ns... if in ns always rush then what then do with those buildings? if likes rushing, he can go play cs. and think... if in ns isnt´t any buildings. no hive no cc no anything. only killing other team :I

<img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>
<img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>
<img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>
<img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>
<img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'>

Firewater · September 2003

of if he likes rushing he can play NS, and the other team should get some skill or brains to find away to stop the rush.

Dukat · September 2003

I'd like to take a quote from hamstring's sig. I think it's kinda accurate to this thread.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>newbies whine veterans adapt</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

In short, rushes when done by skilled players against skilled players can be countered. Take a clue from the quote and adapt. Learn to counter the rushes.

JoltGris · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lilbadwolf @ Sep 12 2003, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I wish that NS could have a more mature community like before.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
This is the downside with being the 3rd largest Half-Life mod.. :/

Maveric · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pyroclasm_Inferno @ Sep 12 2003, 01:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i think rushing is only stupid because all game fun goes to that stupid rush  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
1- Turn yourself away from building the armory first and not the IP.
2- Turn yourself away from humping the armory.
3- Get smart or die.
4- Learn to aim or die.

Rushes are fun if marines would stop being fools and not hearing/ignoring everything...

Axehilt · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pyroclasm_Inferno @ Sep 13 2003, 12:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> its good to rush in wc3 and cs but not in ns... if in ns always rush then what then do with those buildings? if likes rushing, he can go play cs. and think... if in ns isnt´t any buildings. no hive no cc no anything. only killing other team :I  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Just pretend that buildings are there for when the teams are vaguely even in skill level. If one side sucks enough to die to a rush, there isn't much point in making the game take a huge amount of time, is there?

And as I said earlier, rushing adds depth to strategy. Should you have 50% of your aliens go gorge and all throw up a RT immediately at game start, or should you be more cautious in case the marines attack? It causes you to actually think more about those kinds of things instead of having some rote memorized build order that's always the best way to do things.

You won't see Tier 2 of Warcraft 3 in a game where an expert player rushes a newbie. Neither should higher tech stuff in NS show up unless the teams are relatively even.

Silver_Fox · September 2003

Rushing is a valid tactic.

It has strengths and weaknesses. Learn how to counter a rush and you can punish a team thats foolish enough to try one.

NS is part RTS - Rush is a valid tactitc, regardless of your personal opinions on it.

Stoneburg · September 2003

Without the risk of a rush, NS would be extremely boring. Even though I am not very fond of rushing, since I don't like to take chances, I do them from time to time as a COM. You need them on both sides to keep the teams honest. If there was no risk of a rush, everyone would just be 'booming', meaning expanding at max speed.

Also it allows you to turn games. Played a game on ns_nothing as COM. Sent all the Marines to Generator and they got slaughtered. I could hear gorges building in Gen, as well as in Cargo, but Viaduct was their hive. I had two guys constantly run around the Gen area while I sent all the rest through Foreboding straight onto Viaduct. The team arrived with all the aliens off defending Gen/Cargo, and killed the hive. GG.

Even the aliens agreed that it was a good thing, they had over-extended and left their base wide open, which we took advantage of.

This whole "no rushing" thing is stupid. Claiming it is because of CS is stupid too. I bet those who whine about it suck at CS too, because they don't have the understanding of tactics and strategy to play it well. NS is not about sitting back and vuilding the most structures, it's about exploiting whatever weaknes your opponent shows. If they leave their base open, you rush, if they fortify their base, you expand.

You need some "lame" rush wins to keep the game exciting.

Teflon · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Sep 13 2003, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 13 2003, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadlyEagle @ Sep 12 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you all talking about skull rushes but when the hive is close enough a shotgun rush can b just as effective. The prob is if it fails you will have lost the round before it started.. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Exactly. Either way, a shotgun rush ends the game in a few minutes, wether it fails or not. Shotgun rushes are pointless and NOT FUN at all, and frankly, should be taken out of the early game to prevent rushing. Anything that can 'end the game' so quickly and inevitably is crap. Imagine if the onos had all abilities at hive 1. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Wow.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Marines shotgun rush.

1) They fail. They all die. They've spent 100+ resources getting their whole team shotguns and medkits. The aliens have it incredibly easy now, and usually most marines at this point say "Damn, we lost, GG aliens".

2) They succeed. Hive dies. Game ends.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You say that anything that can end a game should be taken out of the early game right? Well what about those game ending skulk rushes that most people are talking about? Those can end a game very fast with just the skulk bitegun. Do you want skulks to have just parasite as their main weapon early game then? Shotguns are aviable early game to help counter those early game skulk rushes. a comm drops a couple of shottys those marines stand guard while the others build, skulk rush comes in the shottys will give the others time to stop building and help defend at least. Games are ended by rushes because of lack of preparation, simple as that. Expect a rush every game, to stop shotty rushes uses ambush tatics, get the marines from behind. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

There's a big difference between a skulk and a shotgun. Skulks are weak and are easy to stop. Shotguns are not, in the LEAST bit easy to stop in the early game. Furthermore, skulks were DESIGNED to be a rush unit. Shotguns were not, the cheap cost and easy availability was just a side effect.

What Idea Is In Rush?

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