<!--QuoteBegin--Cheez!+Sep 17 2003, 10:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cheez! @ Sep 17 2003, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is neither relevant or realistic. Do REAL marines in small squads get transported into a combat zone wearing an ammo belt with 250 rounds of ammo on it? Not unless you want your troops collapsing from all the weight. Granted they do carry a reasonable ammount of ammo with them, but no more than is essential.
Thus marines in ns spawn with only an essential ammount of ammo, 2 clips for each gun, counting one already loaded. True a REAL marine would carry a bit more than two clips, but not five, he'd be unable to walk then. Heck if you ask this question why not apply it to all mods! Why don't those CTs in CS spawn with full amm, and why onyl a pistol, theyshould all get free MP5s! Why even have ammo at all, lets just have infinit ammo so we never have to reload, and watch one marine kill 5 onos and a hive without having to release the trigger once!
If you can't be bothered to click on the armory 4 times, then your just plain lazy.
Thank you and good day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Foregoing the "realism" argument for a second...are you suggesting that REAL Marines, which has nothing to do with NS Marines, go into a battle area NOT supplied to be self sufficent? Who says that NS ammo "weighs" a lot? Perhaps is a caseless round and weighs very little.
Either way, 100 rounds (2 magazines) of ammution is LESS than essential. 200 rounds should be the bare minimum. My guess is all the naysayers here are alien lovers. Why should we be bothered to click on the armory at all unless we are rearming or arming new weapons the commander has dropped for us?
Don't make your argument stupid by implying this is equivilent to giving the Marines ulimited infinate ammo for his weapons.
but it cuts out the CHOICE of whether to rush to a location under attack and maybe have ammo problems or run the risk of loading up on ammo only to arrive too late.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jummeh+Sep 17 2003, 10:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jummeh @ Sep 17 2003, 10:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but it cuts out the CHOICE of whether to rush to a location under attack and maybe have ammo problems or run the risk of loading up on ammo only to arrive too late. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The choice of who? The commander is who should decide that, yet he can't make that decision because most marine players will load up regardless of whether he wants them to move fast or not.
Perhaps if this was an IP upgrade?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
What if the commander spent some resources upgrading the IP and it allowed the Marines to come in with a bigger load out? Would that be viable?
I'm still strongly under the impression that this is some poor balancing attempt that only seems to hinder marine flexibility for no apparant reason.
Harry are you dumb in the head? Caseless rounds dont require a brass casing to be extracted to cycle the next round... there is brass flying whenever you shoot, thus the rounds are not caseless.
Whoever said the thing about the magazines... GJ i was going to do the same till i saw that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> it annoys me slightly... but i am an easy going guy and let it slide (especially considering this is just a game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
One thing about the armory... armory humping is so talked about if i grab more then 2 mags from there, i feel like an **** for sitting on my **** getting ammunition... kinda like preasure to go out and get stuff done... thus i go out a very small loadout. Considering i CAN aim (unlike most marines) i do run out often and make frequent trips back to base (once i killed a fresh skulk with my knife running back to the base for ammo <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) If the comm wants to spend res on me, he can get me a mother freaking shotgun, because i preform miricles with that damn thing and NO ONE REALISES THIS, even after i kill the whole skulk rush by myself with 8 well placed shots... SHOTGUNS ARE THE KEY PEOPLE... DONT GIVE THEM OUT IN HUGE BURSTS... one at a time in a squad is all that is needed, and it is the most efficient way to do so. (whats the term? russian equipping?)
Those who **** about spawning with 100 LMG bullets are those killed by me while humping the armory (thus is why i hate humping even for A MOMENT... i am the person that cleans up the marines that are... uhh busy)
<!--QuoteBegin--Harry S. Truman+Sep 16 2003, 10:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Sep 16 2003, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And this is relevent how?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I just want to be given a full clip of ammo before TSA command beams me into a alien infested space station. Is that too much to ask? Filling your weapons should be the LAST thing you need to think about when coming on board. I don't see a problem with this and it shouldn't be required to "hump the armory" everytime you beam in. It would be a God send for commanders! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, stupid TSA, why don't they just spawn you into an alien infested space station already wearing HA and holding a fully loaded HMG or GL? Why do they have to research it every time...
Maybe because it's a game and gives the player the opportunity to make decisions which impact on the game?
<!--QuoteBegin--NurEinMensch+Sep 17 2003, 11:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NurEinMensch @ Sep 17 2003, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yea, stupid TSA, why don't they just spawn you into an alien infested space station already wearing HA and holding a fully loaded HMG or GL? Why do they have to research it every time...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What in God's name does this have to do with spawning with 100 extra round of ammunition? This MUST be the people that play alien all the time....LOL
First of all, I think allowing marines to pick up a full clip per click as a purchasable option on an armory is an excellent idea, and I fully support it.
Secondly, the Aliens aren't winning as many games as they used to. Comms have started to adjust to 2.0 and it's various betas and have adjusted their strategy accordingly. Therefore, the alien advantage we were seeing in the opening weeks of 2.0 is no longer an issue.
In the early part of the game, I don't see the "tactical inflexability" of the standard loadout as an issue. Most skirmishes are with unupgraded skulks and the occasional gorge requiring less ammo to get the job done. As the game matures, yes the standard loadout becomes less effective requiring more ammo to be carried, especially if the comm has been slow on upgrades. However, I feel this can be rectified with the armory upgrade we agree on (allowing more ammo to be given per tick as a purchasable upgrade).
I havent' actually played with more ammo at the opening. I feel the opening moments of the game are fairly balanced if the marine team is doing what they are supposed to be doing. I'm loath to do anything that may screw that up. I would be real interested to know if a larger loadout was tried out in beta, and I'd like to hear comments from the testers if this was the case and hear the reasons for the current loadout.
One last thing.... no need to mulitple post... many peaple can answer several comments under one post. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Tactical inflexibility, Harry, would be being forced to be weighed down by a full loadout of ammunition every time you spawn. Spare ammunition *does* affect your speed.
Yes, it's a balance decision that Flayra made and has not budged on. Marines come into the field with the bare necessities; if they want more, it takes a little time. You argue that "fresh" light marines are ill-equipped to deal with Fades and Onos... yet you claim that a skulk doesn't need upgrades to be effective. All I know is that when I've got HMGs storming my hive, I'd *love* to have the time to grab Carapace or Celerity. If there are HA building a phase around the corner, I'd *love* to have the time to evolve to Fade. Each side has to make the choice between speed and preparedness.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The alien equivlent would be when you spawn as a skulk you start with 1/10 of your adenaline. Wouldn't it be fun to spawn in a hive that is under attack and only be able to do 4 bites and then you have to rest. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Two clips each of LMG and Pistol adds up to a potential 1400 points of damage. A skulk doing 70 damage per bite would have to bite 20 times to equal that... ignoring the fact that it has to close to melee range first.
Regardless, you're obviously not interested in changing your mind; as in so many of your rants, you're just shouting "me, me, me" and expecting Flayra to bend over backwards and make it so. "Get used to disappointment."
Comments
Thus marines in ns spawn with only an essential ammount of ammo, 2 clips for each gun, counting one already loaded. True a REAL marine would carry a bit more than two clips, but not five, he'd be unable to walk then. Heck if you ask this question why not apply it to all mods! Why don't those CTs in CS spawn with full amm, and why onyl a pistol, theyshould all get free MP5s! Why even have ammo at all, lets just have infinit ammo so we never have to reload, and watch one marine kill 5 onos and a hive without having to release the trigger once!
If you can't be bothered to click on the armory 4 times, then your just plain lazy.
Thank you and good day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Foregoing the "realism" argument for a second...are you suggesting that REAL Marines, which has nothing to do with NS Marines, go into a battle area NOT supplied to be self sufficent? Who says that NS ammo "weighs" a lot? Perhaps is a caseless round and weighs very little.
Either way, 100 rounds (2 magazines) of ammution is LESS than essential. 200 rounds should be the bare minimum. My guess is all the naysayers here are alien lovers. Why should we be bothered to click on the armory at all unless we are rearming or arming new weapons the commander has dropped for us?
Don't make your argument stupid by implying this is equivilent to giving the Marines ulimited infinate ammo for his weapons.
The choice of who? The commander is who should decide that, yet he can't make that decision because most marine players will load up regardless of whether he wants them to move fast or not.
Perhaps if this was an IP upgrade?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
What if the commander spent some resources upgrading the IP and it allowed the Marines to come in with a bigger load out? Would that be viable?
I'm still strongly under the impression that this is some poor balancing attempt that only seems to hinder marine flexibility for no apparant reason.
Whoever said the thing about the magazines... GJ i was going to do the same till i saw that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> it annoys me slightly... but i am an easy going guy and let it slide (especially considering this is just a game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
One thing about the armory... armory humping is so talked about if i grab more then 2 mags from there, i feel like an **** for sitting on my **** getting ammunition... kinda like preasure to go out and get stuff done... thus i go out a very small loadout. Considering i CAN aim (unlike most marines) i do run out often and make frequent trips back to base (once i killed a fresh skulk with my knife running back to the base for ammo <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) If the comm wants to spend res on me, he can get me a mother freaking shotgun, because i preform miricles with that damn thing and NO ONE REALISES THIS, even after i kill the whole skulk rush by myself with 8 well placed shots... SHOTGUNS ARE THE KEY PEOPLE... DONT GIVE THEM OUT IN HUGE BURSTS... one at a time in a squad is all that is needed, and it is the most efficient way to do so. (whats the term? russian equipping?)
Those who **** about spawning with 100 LMG bullets are those killed by me while humping the armory (thus is why i hate humping even for A MOMENT... i am the person that cleans up the marines that are... uhh busy)
Yea, stupid TSA, why don't they just spawn you into an alien infested space station already wearing HA and holding a fully loaded HMG or GL? Why do they have to research it every time...
Maybe because it's a game and gives the player the opportunity to make decisions which impact on the game?
Go figure.
Yea, stupid TSA, why don't they just spawn you into an alien infested space station already wearing HA and holding a fully loaded HMG or GL? Why do they have to research it every time...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What in God's name does this have to do with spawning with 100 extra round of ammunition? This MUST be the people that play alien all the time....LOL
Secondly, the Aliens aren't winning as many games as they used to. Comms have started to adjust to 2.0 and it's various betas and have adjusted their strategy accordingly. Therefore, the alien advantage we were seeing in the opening weeks of 2.0 is no longer an issue.
In the early part of the game, I don't see the "tactical inflexability" of the standard loadout as an issue. Most skirmishes are with unupgraded skulks and the occasional gorge requiring less ammo to get the job done. As the game matures, yes the standard loadout becomes less effective requiring more ammo to be carried, especially if the comm has been slow on upgrades. However, I feel this can be rectified with the armory upgrade we agree on (allowing more ammo to be given per tick as a purchasable upgrade).
I havent' actually played with more ammo at the opening. I feel the opening moments of the game are fairly balanced if the marine team is doing what they are supposed to be doing. I'm loath to do anything that may screw that up. I would be real interested to know if a larger loadout was tried out in beta, and I'd like to hear comments from the testers if this was the case and hear the reasons for the current loadout.
One last thing.... no need to mulitple post... many peaple can answer several comments under one post. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, it's a balance decision that Flayra made and has not budged on. Marines come into the field with the bare necessities; if they want more, it takes a little time. You argue that "fresh" light marines are ill-equipped to deal with Fades and Onos... yet you claim that a skulk doesn't need upgrades to be effective. All I know is that when I've got HMGs storming my hive, I'd *love* to have the time to grab Carapace or Celerity. If there are HA building a phase around the corner, I'd *love* to have the time to evolve to Fade. Each side has to make the choice between speed and preparedness.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The alien equivlent would be when you spawn as a skulk you start with 1/10 of your adenaline. Wouldn't it be fun to spawn in a hive that is under attack and only be able to do 4 bites and then you have to rest. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two clips each of LMG and Pistol adds up to a potential 1400 points of damage. A skulk doing 70 damage per bite would have to bite 20 times to equal that... ignoring the fact that it has to close to melee range first.
Regardless, you're obviously not interested in changing your mind; as in so many of your rants, you're just shouting "me, me, me" and expecting Flayra to bend over backwards and make it so. "Get used to disappointment."