<!--QuoteBegin--Javert+Sep 28 2003, 07:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Javert @ Sep 28 2003, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> * Javert is surprised this thread has not been stickied yet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure the mods and Co are promoting this .. it's more of a community thing. I think it'll be interesting to see it again but i wasn't much of a fan of it the first time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
By far my favorite map for ns <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just read damn near the whole works of this. (Skipped 21-23 though)
And well...
wow
AWESOME guys. I have to say you've kept your heads pretty well, (considering the number of posts from people that refused to read the whole story, I was smacking my forehead reading some of them)
Frankly, I thought Nancy was done for. But this post was always up at the top of the mapping forum. Finally my curiousity got me. And what an interesting read! (A good soap opera at times! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->)
When all is said and done, I hope somebody makes a copy of this thread because it's a heckuva interesting developers log if I ever saw one! For a few guys who never met before to get together and do something of this scale, the long distance communication... just wow...
plus it looks pretty damn good! Can't wait to play on the ol'girl again! Best of luck to all of ya!
this is how nice the ns community is <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
All halways rooms etc in place. I just need to now fix a few lights and a couple of parts of some of the hallways. Should be done tonight, then I'm sending the source to WolfWings for some quick touchups and a few compiles.
All halways rooms etc in place. I just need to now fix a few lights and a couple of parts of some of the hallways. Should be done tonight, then I'm sending the source to WolfWings for some quick touchups and a few compiles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good to know. I'm here all day, though I may have to work tommorow, so I'll see how much I can get done. =^.^=
so we are very close to the end now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
can't wait to kick some skulks **** on this map again <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
All halways rooms etc in place. I just need to now fix a few lights and a couple of parts of some of the hallways. Should be done tonight, then I'm sending the source to WolfWings for some quick touchups and a few compiles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> w00t! I'll be RADdin' it up in No Time Baby!
omg <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> i cant WAIT to play this map again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
i cried when i found out it wasnt in 2.0.. probably because im a sad geek <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 27 2003, 04:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 27 2003, 04:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the first public one will be on lunixmonster <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not so sure you want to run a public beta on this one, since every single person who connects to the lunixmonster will automatically download the map onto their harddrives, effectively ruining your attempts to stop it being distributed until some sort of official release is sorted out.
Sorry, I didnt read all 50 Pages <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I just want to say THX! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Nancy was my favorite map! Happy mapping!
That's the thing, I don't care who downloads it. It will be named ns_nancy_rc1 and I want to get mass feedback on it so adjustments can be made before the final. There may possibly be an rc2, and a very slight chance of rc3. Hopefully we won't have to reach rc3 and it will be final by then.
DarkATi, don't do anything with rad till I send you the one I've been working with. Most of the light values I have are near perfect. Slight fixes are needed though. Also, I'm gonna let WolfWings make a compile of the final with my rad first, just so you can have an example of all the values and make adjustments accordingly. I think that will be the most efficient method.
Just a suggestion. Make a sign in The RR with instructions to people to go to a site/forum and give feed back on it. That way, you have plenty of feedback and a greater source of oppinions from people who did not even know about this that do download it. And then take it out in the final version.
BTW, this is just to verify that I do have the .map from Lazer. I'm re-adjusting various textures to align correctly, and working my low-ent-count, skulk-clipping magic. :-)
I'm going to be working tommorow most of the day, and I can't finish by tonight, unfortunately, so expect this to get compiled and sent back to Lazer on Wednesday.
As a side-note... there's a NASTY bug in the .map export from Hammer... GtkRadiant and the compile tools interpret texture-rotations backwards from Hammer, apparently, so everything in the map that had ANY texture rotation needed to be opened up and inverted. I.E. -45 becomes 45, etc.
So switching back and forth between Radiant and Hammer involves an annoying step of 'okay, remember all the rotated textures, and switch them' each time. =^.^= Part of the closed beta is most definately going to be requesting any and ALL mis-aligned textures. I want to have the first perfectly-aligned NS map in existance. :-)
Haha alright. I agree with you mostly, but please do not put clip brushes on ground level. (for example turn any steps into slopes) Otherwise I liked the job you did before with the clip brushes. Alright, well hopefully we can see a compile soon.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 29 2003, 06:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 29 2003, 06:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Haha alright. I agree with you mostly, but please do not put clip brushes on ground level. (for example turn any steps into slopes) Otherwise I liked the job you did before with the clip brushes. Alright, well hopefully we can see a compile soon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. Again, the only one I did that you didn't like was done for a reason you agreed with before you removed my reason for doing it in the first place. :-) And if you misunderstood that... don't try to learn LISP. =^.^=
Unless you wanted me to remove the bit of 'infestation' in Subspace Array Interface by the RT in there as well? I thought you liked that as well. It's either that, or somehow remove the 'jump to get up' step there, likely by lowering the RT platform a bit.
Actually I just realized something, On the original nancy in the hallway outside of subspace there was a grill on the floor which wasn't transparent but had a blue texture, if you specmoded you could fly through it and see a space under it, apparently where it was intended to be a seethrough grate like the rest of the seethroughs in the map. Have you made this seethrough now?
And I see that you're doing a public beta which is good. If you don't want other people running it on their own servers you can have a nonbuggered version on your server, and then use ripent and cut out all the entities and release that to the public. Use sv_downloads 0 so that no one can DL the full version but let them continue to connect and play as normal. Although, personally, I'll grab this and try to put it up on a server
Right now, we're only doing a public beta if we don't get pulled into Beta 2.1 testing with Nancy. First though, we have to do a private beta over this weekend I hope, which will be for only a few people, with a very limited version of the map to make it utterly worthless for anyone but the testers to connect to play with, as it won't be usable on a server by itself.
So folks, please stop asking to be in the beta? The people I talked to before or approached are still on my personal okay-list that Lazer still has final say over, but other than that the number of people we're looking for is already well and truly covered. So don't call us, we'll call you if you're wanted. Asking won't help. =^.^= Mapping experience won't help either, we're all three of us experienced mappers, and there's no gameplay changes to be made except improvements in existing gameflow which are easy to manage. The map, such as it is, is done. It's all just window-dressing now. :-)
As to WHY I'd like to go straight to a Dev/Vet/PT beta? That's simple. Surprise the general public as to how much Nancy has improved and been cleaned up. We're keeping the development very open and transparent, but it's still a very <b>private</b> development.
Click on the "Search by Map" link under the search field.
Click the NS radio button.
Search for "ns_nancy"
Some servers are still up with ns_nancy running. Couldn't you all of just got the map from that server admin? I hope this doesn't do anything catastrophic on this threading. Nevertheless, it probably won't mean much anyhow.
<!--QuoteBegin--Morrik+Sep 29 2003, 10:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Morrik @ Sep 29 2003, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some servers are still up with ns_nancy running. Couldn't you all of just got the map from that server admin? I hope this doesn't do anything catastrophic on this threading. Nevertheless, it probably won't mean much anyhow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's not the problem. The original .BSP is easilly found. That's what those servers are running.
If, however, those servers are running <b>any</b> version of NS2.0, Nancy doesn't work right. Onos CANNOT evolve ANYWHERE on the map, period. They get stuck, and can't move. This is a bug in the Nancy .BSP file that cannot be fixed without rebuilding Nancy, which is what we're doing. :-)
Nice try, but it's a well-known fact. Many people want Nancy back, no matter the cost, but we're doing it right, darnit. =^.^=
I figured there would be some sort of hidden fact in there. I would of felt bad if the map could just be taken from those servers and placed onto NS 2.0 servers and all this effort to rebuild ns_nancy would be rendered null and void.
Thank you for proving me wrong because ns_nancy (by far) is the best map ever created for NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 29 2003, 02:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 29 2003, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's the thing, I don't care who downloads it. It will be named ns_nancy_rc1 and I want to get mass feedback on it so adjustments can be made before the final. There may possibly be an rc2, and a very slight chance of rc3. Hopefully we won't have to reach rc3 and it will be final by then.
DarkATi, don't do anything with rad till I send you the one I've been working with. Most of the light values I have are near perfect. Slight fixes are needed though. Also, I'm gonna let WolfWings make a compile of the final with my rad first, just so you can have an example of all the values and make adjustments accordingly. I think that will be the most efficient method. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, send me the rad file WWs compiled w/, then I'll adjust the lights from those values.
<!--QuoteBegin--Revenge+Sep 29 2003, 09:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ Sep 29 2003, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not so sure you want to run a public beta on this one, since every single person who connects to the lunixmonster will automatically download the map onto their harddrives, effectively ruining your attempts to stop it being distributed until some sort of official release is sorted out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Naw, when maps get tested, and stuff isn't wanted to be downloaded, just set sv_allowdownload to 0 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Sep 29 2003, 06:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Sep 29 2003, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW, this is just to verify that I do have the .map from Lazer. I'm re-adjusting various textures to align correctly, and working my low-ent-count, skulk-clipping magic. :-)
I'm going to be working tommorow most of the day, and I can't finish by tonight, unfortunately, so expect this to get compiled and sent back to Lazer on Wednesday.
As a side-note... there's a NASTY bug in the .map export from Hammer... GtkRadiant and the compile tools interpret texture-rotations backwards from Hammer, apparently, so everything in the map that had ANY texture rotation needed to be opened up and inverted. I.E. -45 becomes 45, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you sure that's not the result of GtkRadiant attempting to import the map220 format? I haven't noticed ZHLT having problems with this when dealing exclusively with Hammer...
GtkRadiant uses two different methods to store brush textures--world axis aligned and face aligned--but last I checked it doesn't allow users to mix them (the storage method is exposed to users through the "brush primitives" option, which is either on or off). As a result, it seems from my searching in the code that Radiant currently can't accurately import and maintain both of Hammer's "align to world" and "align to face" options at the same time. I looked at fixing the texture import from 220 to use the Brush Primitive coordinate system (radiant bug #<a href='http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=547' target='_blank'>547</a>) last year, but since the BP textures are always face aligned, I dropped it and worked on ZHLT instead.
I think TTimo has mentioned supporting the two texture types side-by-side in the xmap format, so better support for movement between the formats will be possible in the future.
Quark uses yet another texture format (which ZHLT accepts on import), but IIRC it can translate from 220 without any problems -- it'd be nice if there was some future standardization of the file format, but I don't see that happening while Hammer's source remains closed.
I wasn't asking to be in any sort of nancy beta, I'm happy to wait for the finished product. I was actually trying to warn against doing a public beta if you want this map included in an official NS build.
Exactly as wolfwings said, it'll be more of a surprise when we see a fully polished and perfect Nancy, and I'd rather see nancy in it's full glory rather than go through a painful public beta with bugs and whining noobs and the whole lot tumbling down to result in nancy going from nancy holding some of my best NS related memories to it becoming a painful thing to look back upon.
Try to get this in an official build with private beta tests. If that fails, THEN consider public betas.
Public betas involving complicated map hacks using ripent etc etc are all good in theory but it sounds like it's too much effort to give to a bunch of whiners that WILL hinder the public beta process. Honestly, how much did 2.01 benefit from public betas? Yes there were a lot of advantages, but were they worth the bad attititude from the ungrateful "me me me" type people?
Ever think maybe a private beta would end up just being skilled players who try and play smart? It's gonna be a lot harder to find bugs with the best of players when they already know what to avoid. Pub players oftentimes try and use map exploits, something I wanna kill BEFORE I try and get this thing official again.
I just don't get what the big deal of letting people play a public beta is? There is more good that can come out of it than bad.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure the mods and Co are promoting this .. it's more of a community thing. I think it'll be interesting to see it again but i wasn't much of a fan of it the first time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just read damn near the whole works of this. (Skipped 21-23 though)
And well...
wow
AWESOME guys. I have to say you've kept your heads pretty well, (considering the number of posts from people that refused to read the whole story, I was smacking my forehead reading some of them)
Frankly, I thought Nancy was done for. But this post was always up at the top of the mapping forum. Finally my curiousity got me. And what an interesting read! (A good soap opera at times! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->)
When all is said and done, I hope somebody makes a copy of this thread because it's a heckuva interesting developers log if I ever saw one! For a few guys who never met before to get together and do something of this scale, the long distance communication... just wow...
plus it looks pretty damn good! Can't wait to play on the ol'girl again! Best of luck to all of ya!
*edited* - me no speakum inglish.
All halways rooms etc in place. I just need to now fix a few lights and a couple of parts of some of the hallways. Should be done tonight, then I'm sending the source to WolfWings for some quick touchups and a few compiles.
All halways rooms etc in place. I just need to now fix a few lights and a couple of parts of some of the hallways. Should be done tonight, then I'm sending the source to WolfWings for some quick touchups and a few compiles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good to know. I'm here all day, though I may have to work tommorow, so I'll see how much I can get done. =^.^=
can't wait to kick some skulks **** on this map again <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
All halways rooms etc in place. I just need to now fix a few lights and a couple of parts of some of the hallways. Should be done tonight, then I'm sending the source to WolfWings for some quick touchups and a few compiles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
w00t! I'll be RADdin' it up in No Time Baby!
DarkATi
I'm not so sure you want to run a public beta on this one, since every single person who connects to the lunixmonster will automatically download the map onto their harddrives, effectively ruining your attempts to stop it being distributed until some sort of official release is sorted out.
That said I think some private beta would be a good idea, just in case.
I just want to say THX! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nancy was my favorite map!
Happy mapping!
DarkATi, don't do anything with rad till I send you the one I've been working with. Most of the light values I have are near perfect. Slight fixes are needed though. Also, I'm gonna let WolfWings make a compile of the final with my rad first, just so you can have an example of all the values and make adjustments accordingly. I think that will be the most efficient method.
I'm going to be working tommorow most of the day, and I can't finish by tonight, unfortunately, so expect this to get compiled and sent back to Lazer on Wednesday.
As a side-note... there's a NASTY bug in the .map export from Hammer... GtkRadiant and the compile tools interpret texture-rotations backwards from Hammer, apparently, so everything in the map that had ANY texture rotation needed to be opened up and inverted. I.E. -45 becomes 45, etc.
So switching back and forth between Radiant and Hammer involves an annoying step of 'okay, remember all the rotated textures, and switch them' each time. =^.^= Part of the closed beta is most definately going to be requesting any and ALL mis-aligned textures. I want to have the first perfectly-aligned NS map in existance. :-)
Agreed. Again, the only one I did that you didn't like was done for a reason you agreed with before you removed my reason for doing it in the first place. :-) And if you misunderstood that... don't try to learn LISP. =^.^=
Unless you wanted me to remove the bit of 'infestation' in Subspace Array Interface by the RT in there as well? I thought you liked that as well. It's either that, or somehow remove the 'jump to get up' step there, likely by lowering the RT platform a bit.
On the original nancy in the hallway outside of subspace there was a grill on the floor which wasn't transparent but had a blue texture, if you specmoded you could fly through it and see a space under it, apparently where it was intended to be a seethrough grate like the rest of the seethroughs in the map.
Have you made this seethrough now?
And I see that you're doing a public beta which is good. If you don't want other people running it on their own servers you can have a nonbuggered version on your server, and then use ripent and cut out all the entities and release that to the public. Use sv_downloads 0 so that no one can DL the full version but let them continue to connect and play as normal.
Although, personally, I'll grab this and try to put it up on a server
So folks, please stop asking to be in the beta? The people I talked to before or approached are still on my personal okay-list that Lazer still has final say over, but other than that the number of people we're looking for is already well and truly covered. So don't call us, we'll call you if you're wanted. Asking won't help. =^.^= Mapping experience won't help either, we're all three of us experienced mappers, and there's no gameplay changes to be made except improvements in existing gameflow which are easy to manage. The map, such as it is, is done. It's all just window-dressing now. :-)
As to WHY I'd like to go straight to a Dev/Vet/PT beta? That's simple. Surprise the general public as to how much Nancy has improved and been cleaned up. We're keeping the development very open and transparent, but it's still a very <b>private</b> development.
<a href='http://www.gametiger.net' target='_blank'>http://www.gametiger.net</a>
Click on "MORE GAMES"
Click on the "Search by Map" link under the search field.
Click the NS radio button.
Search for "ns_nancy"
Some servers are still up with ns_nancy running. Couldn't you all of just got the map from that server admin? I hope this doesn't do anything catastrophic on this threading. Nevertheless, it probably won't mean much anyhow.
That's not the problem. The original .BSP is easilly found. That's what those servers are running.
If, however, those servers are running <b>any</b> version of NS2.0, Nancy doesn't work right. Onos CANNOT evolve ANYWHERE on the map, period. They get stuck, and can't move. This is a bug in the Nancy .BSP file that cannot be fixed without rebuilding Nancy, which is what we're doing. :-)
Nice try, but it's a well-known fact. Many people want Nancy back, no matter the cost, but we're doing it right, darnit. =^.^=
Thank you for proving me wrong because ns_nancy (by far) is the best map ever created for NS.
DarkATi, don't do anything with rad till I send you the one I've been working with. Most of the light values I have are near perfect. Slight fixes are needed though. Also, I'm gonna let WolfWings make a compile of the final with my rad first, just so you can have an example of all the values and make adjustments accordingly. I think that will be the most efficient method. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, send me the rad file WWs compiled w/, then I'll adjust the lights from those values.
~ DarkATi
I'm not so sure you want to run a public beta on this one, since every single person who connects to the lunixmonster will automatically download the map onto their harddrives, effectively ruining your attempts to stop it being distributed until some sort of official release is sorted out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Naw, when maps get tested, and stuff isn't wanted to be downloaded, just set sv_allowdownload to 0 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm going to be working tommorow most of the day, and I can't finish by tonight, unfortunately, so expect this to get compiled and sent back to Lazer on Wednesday.
As a side-note... there's a NASTY bug in the .map export from Hammer... GtkRadiant and the compile tools interpret texture-rotations backwards from Hammer, apparently, so everything in the map that had ANY texture rotation needed to be opened up and inverted. I.E. -45 becomes 45, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure that's not the result of GtkRadiant attempting to import the map220 format? I haven't noticed ZHLT having problems with this when dealing exclusively with Hammer...
GtkRadiant uses two different methods to store brush textures--world axis aligned and face aligned--but last I checked it doesn't allow users to mix them (the storage method is exposed to users through the "brush primitives" option, which is either on or off). As a result, it seems from my searching in the code that Radiant currently can't accurately import and maintain both of Hammer's "align to world" and "align to face" options at the same time. I looked at fixing the texture import from 220 to use the Brush Primitive coordinate system (radiant bug #<a href='http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=547' target='_blank'>547</a>) last year, but since the BP textures are always face aligned, I dropped it and worked on ZHLT instead.
I think TTimo has mentioned supporting the two texture types side-by-side in the xmap format, so better support for movement between the formats will be possible in the future.
Quark uses yet another texture format (which ZHLT accepts on import), but IIRC it can translate from 220 without any problems -- it'd be nice if there was some future standardization of the file format, but I don't see that happening while Hammer's source remains closed.
</tangent>
Exactly as wolfwings said, it'll be more of a surprise when we see a fully polished and perfect Nancy, and I'd rather see nancy in it's full glory rather than go through a painful public beta with bugs and whining noobs and the whole lot tumbling down to result in nancy going from nancy holding some of my best NS related memories to it becoming a painful thing to look back upon.
Try to get this in an official build with private beta tests. If that fails, THEN consider public betas.
Public betas involving complicated map hacks using ripent etc etc are all good in theory but it sounds like it's too much effort to give to a bunch of whiners that WILL hinder the public beta process. Honestly, how much did 2.01 benefit from public betas? Yes there were a lot of advantages, but were they worth the bad attititude from the ungrateful "me me me" type people?
I just don't get what the big deal of letting people play a public beta is? There is more good that can come out of it than bad.