You shouldn't need anymore than 1 game to see if it "works" and by that I mean if it crashes or not. The map was already tested quite thouroughly during its initial indoc to NS. All that really needs to be done is to obviously rebuild the brush work, fix minior brush issues (fluishing the vents, making some more accessible, hullfile, etc) and knocking out the lingering texture alignments. I'm not too sure I see the need for any sort of public beta. Once its "ready" I'm sure Flay will want to at least try it out, which means it will in all likelihood, be entering a few playtesters games during those "behind the scenes" games.
Oh and don't forget to keep recent back ups <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I completely agree, the only reason behind holding a few betas was that I wanna try and catch map exploits. I'm guessing with all of WolfWing's nulling though, it shouldn't be worried about that much.
<!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Sep 30 2003, 04:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Sep 30 2003, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just want to say once again, thank you! I can not wait for this to be finished *kisses mappers feet*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No no Xzilen, no feet kissing, that's just silly!!!
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Sep 30 2003, 04:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Sep 30 2003, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Sep 30 2003, 04:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Sep 30 2003, 04:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just want to say once again, thank you! I can not wait for this to be finished *kisses mappers feet*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No no Xzilen, no feet kissing, that's just silly!!!
Very nice folks, 've been distracted but it looks like everything is working out beautifully. If we're lucky I'll have time to improve things before you get coerced into starting on bast <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Very nice folks, 've been distracted but it looks like everything is working out beautifully. If we're lucky I'll have time to improve things before you get coerced into starting on bast <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I'll leave bast up to whoever feels like doing it. Nancy has been enough for me.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
Bah, u same guys should go ahead with bast. You did such a great job with nancy. I personally like bast a lot more. But, if ya don't wana, i accept that. Maybe you could just do it at a much slower pace. Since its already playable, its not in as much of a need as nancy was.
This has probably been answered, so sorry in advance, but why dont you just decompile the map? This should give you 95% of your solids and all entities etc. intact.
They already DID get it decompiled. But decomplies are rarely accurate. First of all, they had to get a custom decompiler, as normal ones do not work on nancy (its too large) Then they had to redo all the basic brushwork as decompiles often fracture brushes. Add to that the fact that they had to redo all the texturing and such, and all of the sudden it doesn't seem to easy. Decompiling and then recompiling would just end up with the recompile not WORKING and having all the textures being aaatrigger even if it DID work.
<!--QuoteBegin--ANeM+Oct 1 2003, 12:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ANeM @ Oct 1 2003, 12:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They already DID get it decompiled. But decomplies are rarely accurate. First of all, they had to get a custom decompiler, as normal ones do not work on nancy (its too large) Then they had to redo all the basic brushwork as decompiles often fracture brushes. Add to that the fact that they had to redo all the texturing and such, and all of the sudden it doesn't seem to easy. Decompiling and then recompiling would just end up with the recompile not WORKING and having all the textures being aaatrigger even if it DID work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Couldn't have said it better myself.
You could do ns_bast or ns_fenris afterwards <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I may have missed this, and I am not going through 51 pages... but why does Bast need to be remade? Did that get lost too?
Why don't you stupid mappers back up your files !?<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--XP-Cagey+Sep 30 2003, 08:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Sep 30 2003, 08:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> GtkRadiant uses two different methods to store brush textures--world axis aligned and face aligned--but last I checked it doesn't allow users to mix them (the storage method is exposed to users through the "brush primitives" option, which is either on or off). As a result, it seems from my searching in the code that Radiant currently can't accurately import and maintain both of Hammer's "align to world" and "align to face" options at the same time. I looked at fixing the texture import from 220 to use the Brush Primitive coordinate system (radiant bug #<a href='http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=547' target='_blank'>547</a>) last year, but since the BP textures are always face aligned, I dropped it and worked on ZHLT instead. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That <b>would</b> explain the problems I'm seeing... I'm used to axis-aligned thinking, and manually adjusting the coordinates to force-feed what I want to the compile-tools. Hammer doesn't like that, apparently, and yeah, I'd guess the mixed-mode coordinate storage is what's bolloxing my editing up. =^.^=
Next time, PLEASE include your extra .wad file, hon? You made a couple 'clones' of existing textures for lighting purposes, and I had to rummage to figure out which ones they were.
Also... I'm having to go through and find over-large textures. The thing's not compiling, and saying it's using 4.5MB of textures. I'm going to go through and lose alt the -BIG variant-textures that aren't see-through at this point, as there's very little else that can be done along those lines. :-P
I'd just like to say that if you've never made a large map before you probably don't realize how draining it can be.
After all the large mapping projects I've done I've had to take literally 3 months to half a year off before starting on a new map because it takes a lot out of me. I assume its the same with this team; it sounds like most of them are more interested in getting back to some of their personal projects anyway.
So before you guys start asking these guys to do even MORE work, please be considerate and realize that it IS work. It's not all fun and games. I'm just happy you guys were able to do this nancy remake. Awesome job!
<!--QuoteBegin--SamR+Oct 1 2003, 12:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SamR @ Oct 1 2003, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> WHAT IS WRONG WITH BAST!? WHY WOULD IT NEED TO BE REMADE!? WAS IT LOST!?
Please answer me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Short answer - source isn't available (to the NS team for maintenance in future releases). See pages 39 & 40 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: added stuff in parentheses above to clarify - first short answer was too short <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--supernorn2000+Oct 1 2003, 06:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (supernorn2000 @ Oct 1 2003, 06:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nice to hear you're almost done.
You could do ns_bast or ns_fenris afterwards <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What was Fenris like? Wasn't it supposed to be in 2.0? No one has ever answered me =(
And why did the Bast maker leave the community recentely anyways, since he was a dev to =(
Oh, and any place I can get screenies from Fenris?
antifreezeThe guy with the goods!Join Date: 2003-05-12Member: 16232Members, Constellation
Noooo. Bast. Lost into oblivion. Please rebuild this too, it was a really damm good map. It was different aswell with refinary hive, please remake it aswell.
It seems like it's some of the best maps that loose their source.. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway.. can't wait for nancy to be finished. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Oct 1 2003, 09:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Oct 1 2003, 09:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What was Fenris like? Wasn't it supposed to be in 2.0? No one has ever answered me =( <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There's a DL of Fenris available over at <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk' target='_blank'>NS World</a>. It's a huge map, with a resource bias for the marines.
I've got the couple of leaks Lazer sent over with the map fixed. (Brush errors, watch the edge-manipulation, Lazer, you left a couple brushes no longer touching so they leaked in your hurry. :-)
Now going through and skulk and commander-clipping the maps. Things like turning grates opaque in Commander view, and flagging the pipes underneath as invisible to the commander, things like that. And no, I'm NOT going overboard with it, either. Effective entity count in-game is around 200 right now, and there's a lot of optimization to be done yet, like the final pass to merge all the skulk-clipping into one level-wide entity since it's one solid 'NULL' brush, so it never gets rendered anyways. So even with all the doors and grates and steam and such in Nancy, and with some constructions taking 3 entities instead of 1 or 2 if func_seethrough supported grates, we'll be well under the new entity restrictions. =^.^=
I'm also doing things that lower the r_speeds in commander-mode noticably in other ways also, like the gratings with 'dents' in them are replaced with a simpler 'flat' grate in the non-see-through version, so the Commander view might well be only marginally higher than the player view when the final map is done. Read: Commanders won't get murdered for FPS. :-)
<!--QuoteBegin--relsan+Oct 1 2003, 09:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Oct 1 2003, 09:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd just like to say that if you've never made a large map before you probably don't realize how draining it can be.
After all the large mapping projects I've done I've had to take literally 3 months to half a year off before starting on a new map because it takes a lot out of me. I assume its the same with this team; it sounds like most of them are more interested in getting back to some of their personal projects anyway.
So before you guys start asking these guys to do even MORE work, please be considerate and realize that it IS work. It's not all fun and games. I'm just happy you guys were able to do this nancy remake. Awesome job! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Aye, ya hit the nail on the head.
Is there a webpage to view the progress of the remake of nancy. I am curious to see all the pictures, I don't want to browse through 52 pages of posts to fine all the pics.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jim has Skillz+Oct 2 2003, 12:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jim has Skillz @ Oct 2 2003, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is there a webpage to view the progress of the remake of nancy. I am curious to see all the pictures, I don't want to browse through 52 pages of posts to fine all the pics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope :[
I could crank out such a webpage, but I want to get Nancy compiled in RC1 state at least by this weekend, so it's doubtful I'd get said webpage done before then.
I'm on track though. I have the vents re-aligned and adjusted to the current geometry so I have a 'core map' with two 'CSG Subtract' maps I apply in sequence to add in the vents. Why bother, you ask? Simple. It lets me make a proper bi-colour minimap to mark off the vents seperately. :-)
Comments
Oh and don't forget to keep recent back ups <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No no Xzilen, no feet kissing, that's just silly!!!
~ DarkATi
No no Xzilen, no feet kissing, that's just silly!!!
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, no feet kissing -- send money instead <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Very nice folks, 've been distracted but it looks like everything is working out beautifully. If we're lucky I'll have time to improve things before you get coerced into starting on bast <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
No no Xzilen, no feet kissing, that's just silly!!!
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, no feet kissing -- send money instead <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Very nice folks, 've been distracted but it looks like everything is working out beautifully. If we're lucky I'll have time to improve things before you get coerced into starting on bast <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'll leave bast up to whoever feels like doing it. Nancy has been enough for me.
Nice job. Very very close now.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
You could do ns_bast or ns_fenris afterwards <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why don't you stupid mappers back up your files !?<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
That <b>would</b> explain the problems I'm seeing... I'm used to axis-aligned thinking, and manually adjusting the coordinates to force-feed what I want to the compile-tools. Hammer doesn't like that, apparently, and yeah, I'd guess the mixed-mode coordinate storage is what's bolloxing my editing up. =^.^=
Next time, PLEASE include your extra .wad file, hon? You made a couple 'clones' of existing textures for lighting purposes, and I had to rummage to figure out which ones they were.
Also... I'm having to go through and find over-large textures. The thing's not compiling, and saying it's using 4.5MB of textures. I'm going to go through and lose alt the -BIG variant-textures that aren't see-through at this point, as there's very little else that can be done along those lines. :-P
After all the large mapping projects I've done I've had to take literally 3 months to half a year off before starting on a new map because it takes a lot out of me. I assume its the same with this team; it sounds like most of them are more interested in getting back to some of their personal projects anyway.
So before you guys start asking these guys to do even MORE work, please be considerate and realize that it IS work. It's not all fun and games. I'm just happy you guys were able to do this nancy remake. Awesome job!
Please answer me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Please answer me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Short answer - source isn't available (to the NS team for maintenance in future releases). See pages 39 & 40 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: added stuff in parentheses above to clarify - first short answer was too short <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
You could do ns_bast or ns_fenris afterwards <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What was Fenris like? Wasn't it supposed to be in 2.0? No one has ever answered me =(
And why did the Bast maker leave the community recentely anyways, since he was a dev to =(
Oh, and any place I can get screenies from Fenris?
Anyway.. can't wait for nancy to be finished. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keep going guys, it's great to see that you're so close.
There's a DL of Fenris available over at <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk' target='_blank'>NS World</a>. It's a huge map, with a resource bias for the marines.
I've got the couple of leaks Lazer sent over with the map fixed. (Brush errors, watch the edge-manipulation, Lazer, you left a couple brushes no longer touching so they leaked in your hurry. :-)
Now going through and skulk and commander-clipping the maps. Things like turning grates opaque in Commander view, and flagging the pipes underneath as invisible to the commander, things like that. And no, I'm NOT going overboard with it, either. Effective entity count in-game is around 200 right now, and there's a lot of optimization to be done yet, like the final pass to merge all the skulk-clipping into one level-wide entity since it's one solid 'NULL' brush, so it never gets rendered anyways. So even with all the doors and grates and steam and such in Nancy, and with some constructions taking 3 entities instead of 1 or 2 if func_seethrough supported grates, we'll be well under the new entity restrictions. =^.^=
I'm also doing things that lower the r_speeds in commander-mode noticably in other ways also, like the gratings with 'dents' in them are replaced with a simpler 'flat' grate in the non-see-through version, so the Commander view might well be only marginally higher than the player view when the final map is done. Read: Commanders won't get murdered for FPS. :-)
After all the large mapping projects I've done I've had to take literally 3 months to half a year off before starting on a new map because it takes a lot out of me. I assume its the same with this team; it sounds like most of them are more interested in getting back to some of their personal projects anyway.
So before you guys start asking these guys to do even MORE work, please be considerate and realize that it IS work. It's not all fun and games. I'm just happy you guys were able to do this nancy remake. Awesome job! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, ya hit the nail on the head.
~ DarkATi
Nope :[
I'm on track though. I have the vents re-aligned and adjusted to the current geometry so I have a 'core map' with two 'CSG Subtract' maps I apply in sequence to add in the vents. Why bother, you ask? Simple. It lets me make a proper bi-colour minimap to mark off the vents seperately. :-)