<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I think these changes may or not be good or bad not having played with them yet but yes what I have seen/read so far they are intresting.
I think I can summarize everyone's posts here in one sentence lol here I go
"These changes may or may not be made for better or worse" although they may be final or not final.
Oh and lerks with spikes and with "adrenaline" I've taken down whole turret farms before while all my other alien buddies were attacking jp's ha's etc. on the other side of the map hehe.
The Lone Rambo Lerk has returned <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> lol
If cl_rate 9999 makes it automatic, then I can see why it's a good idea. I was thinking "wait a second if cl_rate doesn't do anything, why is it being locked to 9999?", and that would explain it.
spores become nearly useless when marines have HA/JP (around hive 2) that's why it's a bad idea to make it a hive 2 ability. spore is great for stopping early siege rushes, spawn camps, map lockdowns, spamming marine start, clearing up medspam.
30 res for a lifeform that's going to get blown away by a shotty? If I am going to melee rines, I'll just skulk and keep that res until I can hive or fade.
Why are you all so whiny about the bite? It was there before, and it will be make chose lerk WAY more often than i used to in post 2.x since i really missed the "fly in and bite" ability of the lerk.
The transformation to starcraft is almost complete <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hm... well, guess I don't have much reason to ever Lerk much, again... umbra and spore are cool, but spikes RULED.... (sigh)... Well, gorge is my fave anyway... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's a bit... bizarre. I mean... I can understand injecting yourself with a powerful stimulant making you stronger and faster, but damaging your health, but how <s>on Earth</s> in the Ariadne Arm does a stimulant drug make your gun fire faster? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You really pull on the trigger for each bullet you fire, that's why the gun shakes so much when you're shooting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--FrickenMoron+Nov 4 2003, 11:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FrickenMoron @ Nov 4 2003, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why are you all so whiny about the bite? It was there before, and it will be make chose lerk WAY more often than i used to in post 2.x since i really missed the "fly in and bite" ability of the lerk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It was there before, but so was spikes. Maybe it is better with the new flight model; I will just have to wait and see.
lol @ the complaint of a 30 res creature that can be nuked with a shotgun... try telling a fade about it, especially because it's still 60 res in testing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Everyone in here who says spores should be scrapped realizes that spores are <b>THE ONLY EFFECTIVE COUNTER</b> to medspam, correct?
Here is why bite/spores/umbra/primal scream is <i>ideal</i> for lerks:
Spores/umbra/primal scream are nessesary to make the lerk the effective support unit it is. You can't get rid of these abilities, and you <b>cannont</b> combine them... a sumbra has to be the stupiest idea I've ever heard... not only would it be unbelievble strong, but it would only take the adrenaline and management of ONE attack. It would require no skill to use, and it would:
- Make your aliens near invincible... yes, umbra tends to make you invincible to marines. - Hurt marines constantly so medspam cannot be used... great. So many pubbers don't realize this, but half of the marine game is the comm, and effective medspam is where it's at. - This would be an end all ability, and it would not be fair/fun for marines AT ALL.
Why the lerk needs bite over spikes: Spikes + Spores are redundant. And this shows - why is the lerk the least popular class right now? Because the lerk gets no action? Not true, lerks can always be on the front lines. How about the fact that the lerk, if ambushed, is nearly 100% doomed to die, hell, if anything gets close to the lerk, it's screwed... the lerk has no way to defend itself. All it can do is support... this is stupid, the lerk should have some way to defend itself and provide support. This involves ditching spikes in favor of bite. Not only is this a great change, but I'm sure it will prove popular in time to come.
So Forlorn, 2 lerks together, 1 with spores, 1 with umbra, are 'invincible' <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT
Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others.
<!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Nov 4 2003, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Nov 4 2003, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So Forlorn, 2 lerks together, 1 with spores, 1 with umbra, are 'invincible' <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT
Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So 1 lerk is basically equivilent to 2 lerks, in terms of manpower, is what you're saying?
Yes it would be overpowered. 1 lerk would become just as good as two lerks. Twice the effectivness.
Spores merely an annoyance? They can negate level 1 armor by chipping at marine hp and letting skulks take them down in two bites again- and that's if the marines only take one or two ticks of damage. Much the same for level 2. Plus, it can easily kill a marine trying to build something- or else make them run away and stop building giving your melee buddies more time to get there before that RT/TF/Siege goes up. Harssing marines at their base early game while they're building ANYTHING gives your entire team more time to get things done: aka Marines will 1)Die from gas 2)Stop Building 3) Chase after the lerk. All of which deters the building process.
If you can't see any of that as important, well sure I guess gas is just annoying/useless.
Also, you lerkbite freaks cheering so loudly; those of you **** or pleased with spumbra.. remember this is all in TESTING. It's nothing definate. Subject to change as always with pre-release versions.
Personally I didn't like the 1.04 lerk while being a marine. With umbra you couldn't shoot them, and if you tried to knife them they bit you to death in short order. Then skilled players learned to swoop and kill... boy those were scary =P From the sounds of the posting, the new bite is different anyway so you can't judge anything unless you're a tester =P
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree; furthermore, should Spumbra appear at the first hive, don't forget that he who originally brought up the Spumbra idea said that the Umbra effect wouldn't happen until the second hive.
Thus, with Spikes > Spumbra > Bite > Scream, you would have the same first hive attacks as you do now; the second hive would give you the coveted Umbra, as well as the highly-demanded Bite.
There's only one flaw with that plan that I can see: Focus would affect Spikes rather than Bite. Perhaps, then, Lerks would be an exception to Focus only affecting hive zero abilities (having it affect Bite for them instead).
As for Spikes killing mines, simple: make Spikes do no damage to mines. An exception that doesn't make sense in a realistic context, but that fixes more-important balance issues.
What the hell? Why won't you get rid of spore and replace it with bite? Spikes are the driving force behind any good lerk and it's a huge, huge, huge blow to lerk to lose spikes. Spores is just an annoyance and I wouldn't mind at all to have that taken away.
<!--QuoteBegin--Unknown+Nov 3 2003, 08:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Unknown @ Nov 3 2003, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Fr05t+Nov 3 2003, 09:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t @ Nov 3 2003, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Get 3 skulks on a HA dealing 97.5 points of damage a chomp, times 6 chomps and that's 585 points of damage done in about a second. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, but time is everything. With lv3 focus, you can only bite less than 2 times in the same amount of time that you can do 3 bites.
So, would you rather do 2 bites doing 208 dmg or 3 bites doing 240 dmg?
Sure, focus is good for 1 bite attacks, but the cons greatly outweigh the pros. If focus just lost its delay, or maybe only slowed your attacks down by 10% a level, or raised the damage you do more, then it would be perfect.
Aww well, I'm just gonna leave it here, no sense in debating a new alien power that has not been balanced yet/much. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> exactly. THis is a RISK just liek getting cara instead of regen or redemp. Focus may be good fro dealign damage but aftwer this your in trouble if u cant kill ur target. Exactly the kinds of pros or cons that set up STRATEGIES
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> exactly. THis is a RISK just liek getting cara instead of regen or redemp. Focus may be good fro dealign damage but aftwer this your in trouble if u cant kill ur target. Exactly the kinds of pros or cons that set up STRATEGIES<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, this is different. People are saying it might be better to have no upgrades than to have focus. It is a trade-off picking carapace over regen, but not in picking carapace compared to having no defense upgrade. That is the difference.
<!--QuoteBegin--[DV]dolemite+Nov 4 2003, 09:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([DV]dolemite @ Nov 4 2003, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm.. a little off topic from the lerk discussion, but is there any word on a "weld armor" request in 2.1? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you got that from the S&I forum, no, i dont see how anything like that is going in.
however, there are welders and armors that can be welded...even in ns2.0! have fun! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Dead_Dan+Nov 5 2003, 02:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Nov 5 2003, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What the hell? Why won't you get rid of spore and replace it with bite? Spikes are the driving force behind any good lerk and it's a huge, huge, huge blow to lerk to lose spikes. Spores is just an annoyance and I wouldn't mind at all to have that taken away. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree there but IF spores have to stay then SPUMBRA si the way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Nov 4 2003, 11:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 4 2003, 11:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Nov 4 2003, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Nov 4 2003, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So Forlorn, 2 lerks together, 1 with spores, 1 with umbra, are 'invincible' <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT
Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So 1 lerk is basically equivilent to 2 lerks, in terms of manpower, is what you're saying?
Yes it would be overpowered. 1 lerk would become just as good as two lerks. Twice the effectivness. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Firstly...
Spike > Spumbra > Bite > Primal Scream
Up the cost of the lerk to 35res...
And to balance spumbra, reduce the staying time of spores (increase the damage a 'lil) and increase the staying time of umbra (reducing the % of bullets stopped a 'lil) then make it cost 150% adrenaline that it used to...
^^ Just an example of balancing ^^
You can't say it would make the lerk twice as powerful, no you are wrong, its all in the number tweaking from whihc thru blance occurs ( oooh look at me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
<!--QuoteBegin--i'm lost+Nov 5 2003, 07:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Nov 5 2003, 07:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People already claim that umbra is useless, so reducing its effectiveness would be a bad thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As I said that was an example 'off the top of my head' balance, obviously not what would happen in game tho.
If I was balancing the game I dont tihnk anyone would be playing it today <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Align+Nov 5 2003, 12:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Nov 5 2003, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In what changelog was it stated that "Focus now gives 100% more damage for 100% the delay of your attacks instead of 30/60%."?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It isn't in a changelog, but here is a quote from S&I.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Nov 4 2003, 9:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Nov 4 2003, 9:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Each level of Focus raises your attack damage and delay between attacks by 33.33333333%. So level 3 is essentially 200% base damage, but half as fast. This is all right in standard NS, allowing Skulks to pick their bites and make them count... but in NS:C it spelt instant incredible EXP gain through 400-damage Xenocide massive kills, due to Skulks having more and more HP with each level. And you needed to be Level 4 to use Xenofocus, which meant an extra 80HP on top... essentially doubling Skulk longevity outright. Personally, I'd be more for setting up Focus to affect all skills again, and just reset Skulk HP to 70/20 on the triggering of Xeno to allow a group of Marines a chance in hell of killing off the XenoFocus-rusher.
The problem really wasn't XenoFocus, it was that the level-gain system of NS:C threw the counter to xenocide (killing the skulk before it could explode) out the window. Unfortunately, that problem still remains... it just takes TWO xenociders now to kill off a group of Marines and level up madly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have only one question concerning the discussion of takeing out spike and putting in bite for lerks. Were any of you actually playing NS when lerks had bite? Bite was the most powerfull tool the lerk had becides unbra (which came at 2nd hive, therefore was not always possible to have). A good lerk could take out 5-6 jpers if they rushed the hive and now its back. An experienced lerk like an experienced fade will soon be able to take down jpers in a hive rush!! This takes alot of pressure off the fades to become defensive units. But even though a lerk could take out a handfull of jpers in 1.xx, in 2.xx a good marine with a shotgun can effectively take out a lerk. The game becomes about skill rather then cost of creature/equipment. The way any FPS should be (Note: NS is a RTSS but the fighting aspect is a FPS). Props to Flayra for bring the bite back to us and giveing us all new kinds of strats for matches/pubs.
Spumbra? Are you guys for real? I personally belive that this is why Flayra likes to keep the changelogs private.
The first problem with spumbra is that it would be way WAY overpowered. A smart 2 hive lerk who is placing good umbra and spore cloads destroy marine teams. Spumbra would be just as bad as making a fade do 80 damage as he blinks.
As far as the spikes in favor bite? Am I the only person here who remembers the 1.04 Lerks that would take down Uber Jetpackers. Not the wimpy Jetpackers in 2.0 mind you, I mean the uber hover forever solo take down a hive jetpackers. Also, like I said before spikes would be overpowered to have at hive 1 with the new mine behavior.
Comments
I think I can summarize everyone's posts here in one sentence lol here I go
"These changes may or may not be made for better or worse"
although they may be final or not final.
Oh and lerks with spikes and with "adrenaline" I've taken down whole turret farms before while all my other alien buddies were attacking jp's ha's etc. on the other side of the map hehe.
The Lone Rambo Lerk has returned <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> lol
Tho:
Spikes > Spumbra > bite > Scream does intrigue me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
No.
30 res for a lifeform that's going to get blown away by a shotty? If I am going to melee rines, I'll just skulk and keep that res until I can hive or fade.
It was there before, and it will be make chose lerk WAY more often than i used to in post 2.x since i really missed the "fly in and bite" ability of the lerk.
The transformation to starcraft is almost complete <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
(j/k for those of you with no sense of humour)
That's a bit... bizarre. I mean... I can understand injecting yourself with a powerful stimulant making you stronger and faster, but damaging your health, but how <s>on Earth</s> in the Ariadne Arm does a stimulant drug make your gun fire faster? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You really pull on the trigger for each bullet you fire, that's why the gun shakes so much when you're shooting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It was there before, and it will be make chose lerk WAY more often than i used to in post 2.x since i really missed the "fly in and bite" ability of the lerk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was there before, but so was spikes. Maybe it is better with the new flight model; I will just have to wait and see.
Spores are useless?
Everyone in here who says spores should be scrapped realizes that spores are <b>THE ONLY EFFECTIVE COUNTER</b> to medspam, correct?
Here is why bite/spores/umbra/primal scream is <i>ideal</i> for lerks:
Spores/umbra/primal scream are nessesary to make the lerk the effective support unit it is. You can't get rid of these abilities, and you <b>cannont</b> combine them... a sumbra has to be the stupiest idea I've ever heard... not only would it be unbelievble strong, but it would only take the adrenaline and management of ONE attack. It would require no skill to use, and it would:
- Make your aliens near invincible... yes, umbra tends to make you invincible to marines.
- Hurt marines constantly so medspam cannot be used... great. So many pubbers don't realize this, but half of the marine game is the comm, and effective medspam is where it's at.
- This would be an end all ability, and it would not be fair/fun for marines AT ALL.
Why the lerk needs bite over spikes: Spikes + Spores are redundant. And this shows - why is the lerk the least popular class right now? Because the lerk gets no action? Not true, lerks can always be on the front lines. How about the fact that the lerk, if ambushed, is nearly 100% doomed to die, hell, if anything gets close to the lerk, it's screwed... the lerk has no way to defend itself. All it can do is support... this is stupid, the lerk should have some way to defend itself and provide support. This involves ditching spikes in favor of bite. Not only is this a great change, but I'm sure it will prove popular in time to come.
EDIT
Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others.
EDIT
Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So 1 lerk is basically equivilent to 2 lerks, in terms of manpower, is what you're saying?
Yes it would be overpowered. 1 lerk would become just as good as two lerks. Twice the effectivness.
Aliens nerfed yet again.
If you can't see any of that as important, well sure I guess gas is just annoying/useless.
Also, you lerkbite freaks cheering so loudly; those of you **** or pleased with spumbra.. remember this is all in TESTING. It's nothing definate. Subject to change as always with pre-release versions.
Personally I didn't like the 1.04 lerk while being a marine. With umbra you couldn't shoot them, and if you tried to knife them they bit you to death in short order. Then skilled players learned to swoop and kill... boy those were scary =P From the sounds of the posting, the new bite is different anyway so you can't judge anything unless you're a tester =P
I agree; furthermore, should Spumbra appear at the first hive, don't forget that he who originally brought up the Spumbra idea said that the Umbra effect wouldn't happen until the second hive.
Thus, with Spikes > Spumbra > Bite > Scream, you would have the same first hive attacks as you do now; the second hive would give you the coveted Umbra, as well as the highly-demanded Bite.
There's only one flaw with that plan that I can see: Focus would affect Spikes rather than Bite. Perhaps, then, Lerks would be an exception to Focus only affecting hive zero abilities (having it affect Bite for them instead).
As for Spikes killing mines, simple: make Spikes do no damage to mines. An exception that doesn't make sense in a realistic context, but that fixes more-important balance issues.
Yea, but time is everything. With lv3 focus, you can only bite less than 2 times in the same amount of time that you can do 3 bites.
So, would you rather do 2 bites doing 208 dmg or 3 bites doing 240 dmg?
Sure, focus is good for 1 bite attacks, but the cons greatly outweigh the pros. If focus just lost its delay, or maybe only slowed your attacks down by 10% a level, or raised the damage you do more, then it would be perfect.
Aww well, I'm just gonna leave it here, no sense in debating a new alien power that has not been balanced yet/much. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly. THis is a RISK just liek getting cara instead of regen or redemp. Focus may be good fro dealign damage but aftwer this your in trouble if u cant kill ur target. Exactly the kinds of pros or cons that set up STRATEGIES
Actually, this is different. People are saying it might be better to have no upgrades than to have focus. It is a trade-off picking carapace over regen, but not in picking carapace compared to having no defense upgrade. That is the difference.
If you got that from the S&I forum, no, i dont see how anything like that is going in.
however, there are welders and armors that can be welded...even in ns2.0! have fun! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree there but IF spores have to stay then SPUMBRA si the way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
( ooh rhymy ) <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT
Putting spores and umbra together isn't as powerful as it might seem because generally you try to aim umbra on things you are defending and spores on rines you are killing. Often, these two things aren't in the same place, so spumbra would be identical to spores or umbra individually in such a circumstance. Hive umbraing is the best example of this I can think of but there are others. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So 1 lerk is basically equivilent to 2 lerks, in terms of manpower, is what you're saying?
Yes it would be overpowered. 1 lerk would become just as good as two lerks. Twice the effectivness. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly...
Spike > Spumbra > Bite > Primal Scream
Up the cost of the lerk to 35res...
And to balance spumbra, reduce the staying time of spores (increase the damage a 'lil) and increase the staying time of umbra (reducing the % of bullets stopped a 'lil) then make it cost 150% adrenaline that it used to...
^^ Just an example of balancing ^^
You can't say it would make the lerk twice as powerful, no you are wrong, its all in the number tweaking from whihc thru blance occurs ( oooh look at me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
As I said that was an example 'off the top of my head' balance, obviously not what would happen in game tho.
If I was balancing the game I dont tihnk anyone would be playing it today <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It isn't in a changelog, but here is a quote from S&I.
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Nov 4 2003, 9:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Nov 4 2003, 9:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Each level of Focus raises your attack damage and delay between attacks by 33.33333333%. So level 3 is essentially 200% base damage, but half as fast. This is all right in standard NS, allowing Skulks to pick their bites and make them count... but in NS:C it spelt instant incredible EXP gain through 400-damage Xenocide massive kills, due to Skulks having more and more HP with each level. And you needed to be Level 4 to use Xenofocus, which meant an extra 80HP on top... essentially doubling Skulk longevity outright. Personally, I'd be more for setting up Focus to affect all skills again, and just reset Skulk HP to 70/20 on the triggering of Xeno to allow a group of Marines a chance in hell of killing off the XenoFocus-rusher.
The problem really wasn't XenoFocus, it was that the level-gain system of NS:C threw the counter to xenocide (killing the skulk before it could explode) out the window. Unfortunately, that problem still remains... it just takes TWO xenociders now to kill off a group of Marines and level up madly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first problem with spumbra is that it would be way WAY overpowered. A smart 2 hive lerk who is placing good umbra and spore cloads destroy marine teams. Spumbra would be just as bad as making a fade do 80 damage as he blinks.
As far as the spikes in favor bite? Am I the only person here who remembers the 1.04 Lerks that would take down Uber Jetpackers. Not the wimpy Jetpackers in 2.0 mind you, I mean the uber hover forever solo take down a hive jetpackers. Also, like I said before spikes would be overpowered to have at hive 1 with the new mine behavior.