Used To Play Often - A 2.0 Newbie's View
Dingy
Join Date: 2003-02-14 Member: 13545Members
Join Date: 2003-02-14 Member: 13545Members
Several months ago I moved and have been without a broadband connection. I recently got my broadband back and started playing NS again. I moved just before 2.0 was released and donated to help the cause along a bit (just showing how much I loved the game prior to moving).
Why is the game completely changed? It seems as though every aspect that I had enjoyed about the game has been changed in some way. Have I just not played enough of it to get used to it? The game is completely different.
Has anyone else gone through this? The shift from 1.04 to 2.0 is enough to just make me wanna stop playing all-together. Maybe I'm just out of practice, but I tried commanding the other day (used to be pretty good at it) and completely screwed up everything. I don't want to give the mod up......should I keep playing and see if I start to like it again? As it stands now I miss 1.04 so much I've started playing other games (gasp!).
Why is the game completely changed? It seems as though every aspect that I had enjoyed about the game has been changed in some way. Have I just not played enough of it to get used to it? The game is completely different.
Has anyone else gone through this? The shift from 1.04 to 2.0 is enough to just make me wanna stop playing all-together. Maybe I'm just out of practice, but I tried commanding the other day (used to be pretty good at it) and completely screwed up everything. I don't want to give the mod up......should I keep playing and see if I start to like it again? As it stands now I miss 1.04 so much I've started playing other games (gasp!).
Comments
2.1 i do believe im going to leave in disgust if some changes stay in, like removing lerk bite. Give primal screa mbak to onos, remove charge and make the lerk 1.0x style, problem solved ffs. Primal screa mdoesnt seen to fit a lerk, its small and wiry, it wouldnt inspire me to fight harder, yet a tanky onos would u see.fade spam, onos spam, lerk gas spam its jsut full of it. Then everything for marines is cheap cheap cheap and built around 1 elected structure. Hit boxes are fixed too so all aliens die faster, and cat packs will cause very early shotgun rushes against hives, end game for aliens quite regularly i think.
Gimme a 1.0x server anyday <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
if it seems entirely different, then approach it as a different game. There's plenty to enjoy about 2.0[1], and if you haven't played much, try playing more.
A staple of NS is that you need a good group of people to fully realize the game's potential. So if you had a bad trip (heh).. try some more. When everything comes together 2.0 can be very rewarding.
Hmm I'm venting but thats pretty much why I dislike new NS I don't play as much anymore because out of 10 games on pubs they are instant loses or instant wins. Yeah I wish I could still play 1.04
He did say that PUBS are dying, and on pubs, people don't have the skill to use a jp very well, in general.
I have a much different philosophy on this mod though...
Even though it is called 1.04 and 2.01 and 2.1, it is still an evolving game, there are a lot of things that will change and some will stay the same, what drew me to NS and has kept me is the fact that it requires more teamwork than most games out there.
I also love the RTS part of it too.
There are some major changes in 2.01, and more are comming down the pipe...
I can find you the sYn - HAM demo if you want to see JPs put to good use and not an HA in sight.
I can find you the sYn - HAM demo if you want to see JPs put to good use and not an HA in sight.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mean to be insulting but, did you miss this part of his statement?
<!--QuoteBegin--i'm lost+Nov 11 2003, 10:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Nov 11 2003, 10:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He did say that PUBS are dying, and on pubs, people don't have the skill to use a jp very well, in general. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it was the <b>only</b> thing he said... And if you are replying to Nataruo's statement, I think he was on the same page as i'm lost, as in talking about pubbing.
In <b><i><u>pubs</u></i></b>, it is HA Trains that win games, simply because HA is more reliable with less reliable people. (This is statistically speaking, from my own personal experience. When you go to specific pubs that have a reliable userbase, this may not always be the case.) The guy becomes a tank, and whether he has the Quake-like skills to jump around and dodge out of the way while turning and firing is an irrelevant question. Now it is just, keep him alive while he mows down enemies. With a pubber, this is much less of a risk, as you don't have to worry whether they are skilled or not, you can simply yell at the team to walk together, and weld each other. (And even <i>that</i> can be really hard sometimes...)
wait a minute....you have 600+ post and never been com? Thats like saying you never played a game where you directly order the human players around. Which is the main appeal of this game. I think you should try it out asap or I will never credit anything you say <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->!
How can you say that LA marine vs skulk is more interesting than multiple high tech marine vs higher evolution aliens? Who doesn't want to play with the big guns and shiny equipment/azz kicking lifeforms? I sure as hell do.
So many people keep forgetting how much we were screaming for a JP nerf before 2.0 came out. 1.04 was fundamentally flawed. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be playing 2.xx. Why oh why can't anyone remember the 5 minute jp/hmg rushes? What about the 2 hour 2 hive lockdowns? Why can't anyone remember that as soon as aliens got the 2nd hive, often it was gg due to acid spamming fades?
These were just a few issues that plagued 1.04. There are many more.
2.01 allows both teams to tech up much more quickly than 1.04 every did. It also removes the dependancy on hives for higher evolutions, making the game much more versitile, while placing more emphasis on resource dominance. IMO this can only be a good thing, as long as it's decently balanced (if both teams can work together and are at a similar skill level, it is very close to being balanced.)
The factor that a lot of you guys are ignoring, is one of Natural Selection's major defining points: Teamwork. You fail to realise that without teamwork (vs similarly skilled opponents), marines WILL LOSE. You fail to realise that without teamwork aliens will lose too. Granted a bit less is needed as aliens, but the requirement is still there at a fundamental level.
Without teamwork, NS is very disheartening, very frustrating and an effort in futility for people who know what they're doing. With teamwork, NS is a total blast. It blows any other online FPS out of the water. I truly understand the pain of most public games, but this isn't the game's fault. You cant FORCE people to work together as a team, it has to be a willful decision made by the players themselves.
I urge you non-believers to watch some demos of skilled clans going at it. Even better, start up or join a clan and see what NS is really all about. I'm not saying public play should be forgotten about, because many people don't have the time/cbf/don't like the way clans operate etc. I understand that most people have only ever played NS on pubs, and don't plan on changing that. If you're happy with the players on your favourite pub server, by all means stick with it.
If you're seriously getting frustrated and are at the point of quitting due to lack of skilled play on pubs, join a clan. Trust me, if you get into an easy going clan who don't take themselves too seriously and have a nice bunch of players, you won't regret it. You don't HAVE to be uber to be in a clan. The room for various strategies and tactics is quite staggering, and clan play (for me) is just so much more <b>fun!</b>
The question is, are YOU up for it?
How can you say that LA marine vs skulk is more interesting than multiple high tech marine vs higher evolution aliens? Who doesn't want to play with the big guns and shiny equipment/azz kicking lifeforms? I sure as hell do.
So many people keep forgetting how much we were screaming for a JP nerf before 2.0 came out. 1.04 was fundamentally flawed. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be playing 2.xx. Why oh why can't anyone remember the 5 minute jp/hmg rushes? What about the 2 hour 2 hive lockdowns? Why can't anyone remember that as soon as aliens got the 2nd hive, often it was gg due to acid spamming fades?
These were just a few issues that plagued 1.04. There are many more.
2.01 allows both teams to tech up much more quickly than 1.04 every did. It also removes the dependancy on hives for higher evolutions, making the game much more versitile, while placing more emphasis on resource dominance. IMO this can only be a good thing, as long as it's decently balanced (if both teams can work together and are at a similar skill level, it is very close to being balanced.)
The factor that a lot of you guys are ignoring, is one of Natural Selection's major defining points: Teamwork. You fail to realise that without teamwork (vs similarly skilled opponents), marines WILL LOSE. You fail to realise that without teamwork aliens will lose too. Granted a bit less is needed as aliens, but the requirement is still there at a fundamental level.
Without teamwork, NS is very disheartening, very frustrating and an effort in futility for people who know what they're doing. With teamwork, NS is a total blast. It blows any other online FPS out of the water. I truly understand the pain of most public games, but this isn't the game's fault. You cant FORCE people to work together as a team, it has to be a willful decision made by the players themselves.
I urge you non-believers to watch some demos of skilled clans going at it. Even better, start up or join a clan and see what NS is really all about. I'm not saying public play should be forgotten about, because many people don't have the time/cbf/don't like the way clans operate etc. I understand that most people have only ever played NS on pubs, and don't plan on changing that. If you're happy with the players on your favourite pub server, by all means stick with it.
If you're seriously getting frustrated and are at the point of quitting due to lack of skilled play on pubs, join a clan. Trust me, if you get into an easy going clan who don't take themselves too seriously and have a nice bunch of players, you won't regret it. You don't HAVE to be uber to be in a clan. The room for various strategies and tactics is quite staggering, and clan play (for me) is just so much more <b>fun!</b>
The question is, are YOU up for it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but we aren't talking about Clan Wars. It’s <i>public</i> that are suffering. And without an active pub scene the clan scene dies as well (with no new clans being made).
This is where I think NS is flawed, it requires TOO much teamwork in public mode (meaning random people vs. random people and half of those wouldn’t have a clue on how to play like they're in a war) and as you said, is rather frustrating and annoying because there is none
Let’s just look at some other games that are quite successful
CS: ultimate pub, you can do whatever the hell you want without having a frustrating game (unless you have hackerphobia) and doesn't require an ounce of teamwork, yet it is the most ONLINE played game in the world
DoD: this requires more teamwork then CS, but still you can go around capping flags, fast respawn meaning more constant games (10 second respawn). But still you can have a good time in pub mode without requiring too much teamwork
Then you get NS, which at its current state (2.01) requires a load of teamwork for marines, less for aliens but you still need it. Unlike 1.04, you can’t **** around when there is no teamwork and have any fun, its just frustrating, causing people to leave the game and sometimes never come back. In 1.04, there were JPs which were a major fun factor in public mode. Sure, they were unbalanced majorly in wide open maps (fun maps?) and vent infested maps (nancy?) but now, they're just USELESS with public teams who have no idea how to use it
also, in 1.04 you could say, guard a res point and try to see how many skulks you could down before you die (note: not rambo'ing) or just try out your silent/not silent bhop skills
Now, all the unbalancing factors could have been ironed out
i.e. JP nerfing (not to the extreme of 2.0), removing the ‘hit back’ that skulks had on bunny hopping marines (extreme push pack) and others which I can’t really think of atm.
My hope is that NS:C / 2.1 will relieve the public issues that NS currently has and make games more enjoyable
I think I remember an Australian vet (Hybrid-UNKNOWN) said that they should’ve just made 2.0 like 1.04, but just removing the serious issues (overpowered JPs) and I agree with him.
If you disagree with anything I’ve said, give a reason for it, don’t just say ‘NO MAN YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG’
Sure I like teamwork but in 1.04 as you all **** and whine about OOH JP RUSH OHH hmm you wanna know who was most affected by these problems??? the clan scene because only clanners would use it like that because it was when 2 clans fought one would use it but on the pubs where everyone was new and comms could try their luck if they were new (god knows its rare now people bitching and ****) we had fun! because we would get games where you had one man bravely stalk into enemy territory and maybe pull a win off or the lone skulk taking out the entire marine force (note that still happens marines still suck) But I said I liked skulks vs marines with a few of the rarer upgrades popping up a bit. Sure Maybe you have a fantasy about teched up marines vs the higher life forms but in reality where the pubs are concerned is that If one side is teched up the other side sure as hell isn't because once your side starts losing you keep losing I liked 1.04 because it was skulks vs marines so if you joined the losing side you could still pull it off but its no longer like that usually its either a bunch of LMG's vs ONOS or HA+HMG vs Skulks so don't tell me ooh he doesn't like using the big guns and fighter bigger aliens I'd love to try and do a game where we had HA and they had ONOS but it rarely happens anymore/
end of 1.0x , 8,000 people playing daily
start of 2.0 , 22,000 people playing daily.
current, 15,000 people playing daily.
If NS drops under 15,000 daily players i would say NS was dieing since 15,000 has been the steady player ammount since the major drop of the 2.0.
(stats are not 100% accurate but they give you a good idea)
and flakky, go back in your hole you banana <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
you just about nailed it on the public play
Clans or highly regular'd servers tend to have better overall coordination and rich gameplaying. While o ther serv ers it's a compelte hit or miss of skill / number stacking - or general rambo situations.
My q ues tion is, will NS:Combat effectively create a learning curve towards teamwork?
To clarify: will the moderate amount of teamwork supposedly needed in Combat (if any) serve as a stepping stone to fullblown NS tactical situations.
If so - then we may see many better games ahead. If not, then we'll see an extremely polarized game environment.
CS and DoD do not have the scope of variations that NS has and so there is not much room for individual actions - in a CS FFA pub server all you must remeber is don't TK , plant/disarm (or rescue Hostages) and shoot the bad man - so its possible to go rambo and take out the enemy.
NS features variety in the fact the teams are very different and there is a lot of scope for strategy - imagine if rambos could win a game by themselves...you would get skilled players ignoring the rts aspect (and the poor comm) and doing thier own thing..may as well remove the comm and add a buy system.
The NS devs are trying to encourage the rts aspect as its that aspect that makes NS different, and rambos that ignore the overall strat ruin it - imagine playing Starcraft and your units just ignore you and wander off on thier own missions.
Least thats my 2cents
Im looking forward to 2.1, maybe even more then 2.0 ( not forgetting the hype up about it)