Actually not a bad idea, except it just makes people want to kill more, and the game's about teamwork, not fragfestting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aliens - Fragfest Marines - Teamwork.
Please keep your facts strait.
and yes, if the aliens are supposed to be all sneaky then why do the marines have something that completely counter the entire alien theme? (was it a cruel joke against the alien players in a pre-1.0 release beta that was never fixed? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *straight.
Ahh nothing to spark a good debate like someone daring to say NS has problems...
Some of your points where OK but mate I'm gonna make this as easy to understand as possible using pictures...
the marines have: <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> + HA but no picture for that Aliens: <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
So doesn't it make a little sense that the normal unit which your generally stuck as for most of the game should be better then the peon of the aliens like the skulk and the skulk though in capable hands is deadly if we were to think about this the marine would be worth 10 res while skulks are worth 2 simple because marines are more the all around guy and aliens have more choice. Oh yeah I disagree about the skulk being to slow as the marine nahhhh the skulk is faster.
<!--QuoteBegin--A Damn Fool+Jan 16 2004, 05:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (A Damn Fool @ Jan 16 2004, 05:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So doesn't it make a little sense that the normal unit which your generally stuck as for most of the game should be better then the peon of the aliens like the skulk and the skulk though in capable hands is deadly if we were to think about this the marine would be worth 10 res while skulks are worth 2 simple because marines are more the all around guy and aliens have more choice. Oh yeah I disagree about the skulk being to slow as the marine nahhhh the skulk is faster. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In a black and white sense, yes, but keep in mind that situational advantage marines can have (Range vs. Melee), and weapon/armor upgrades. Furthermore skulks are substantially weaker then your average marine. If you had a skulk and a marine both aiming at each other, and both fired at the same time, I'm pretty sure the marine would lose at level 0 armor, and survive at level 1. Just shows how big a difference it makes.
I believe they should change it so one team can only be outnumbered by one person than two. (Ex:9v8 rather than 9v7.) Forcing people to go random is crap. There are times that I don't want to play marine at all, and other times when I don't want to go alien. Give the people a choice as to what they want to play as, naturally.
Skulks run faster than marines, especially with celerity, and especially with leap. Skulks aren't meant to be running up to marines, they are meant for ambush. They are meant to SKULK. If you die in an ambush, maybe you didn't plan your ambush correctly. Anyone can look up at a ceiling, yes. Maybe you should sit lower on the ceiling so the drop isn't that high and they won't have time to shoot/look. Maybe you should sit around the corner to the side instead of the ceiling. You choose a spot that helps you the most.
Though I am a bit saddened by the amount of ranged attack for aliens, this is true. Kickback rarely happens to me, I don't see it as a problem. Also, as a marine it's nice because then you have a chance to fight for your pathetic life instead of CHOMP CHOMP, you're dead. Aliens can kill a marine just as quickly as a marine can kill an alien.
In regards to the new resource system... It's a TEAM based game. If you only got upgrades according to how many kills you get think of the negative effects of this. Team mates would be scraping to get as many kills as they can. You'd hear cries of "You stole my kill!" and create some unhappy campers. What if you're the unlucky one who just can't seem to kill anything? You say the newbies can gorge. Do you really trust all the newbies to gorge properly?
The strategies you have listed, when you think about it, where not suggestions BY the game or the developers. These tactics have developed from people who PLAY the game. Maybe the players need to think up new tactics is all. I'm not saying that's easy, because it isn't.
You mention new upgrades to make it more exciting and complex. Maybe give us some examples, please.
And the hive is just like a comm chair. That's like complaining that the comm chair is just a hunk of metal and doesn't do anything. It does plenty of things. The hive not only spawns players, it gives aliens new abilities and the option of getting a new trait which gives you various upgrades. It heals you and it heals itself. It does plenty.
I have a few things to say. Some of you may agree with where most of you may not.
I personally felt that NS 1.04 (with all the bugs it had) was by far, the most balanced of gameplay. Now, before you start shouting "what is this guy smoking", hear me out for a minute. In NS 1.04, the aliens needed more hives to evolve into higher life forms and having more then one gorge would slow down the res flow for the entire alien team. Also, for just about every advancement the marine team could get, the aliens could come up with a semi equal counter-measure for. JP = Lerk, 3/3 marine = Fade, HA/HMG = Onos
In NS 2.0, the aliens only need one hive to obtain any life form and the more gorges you have building res, the faster the res flow gets for all aliens. Even the "nubs" waiting for 100 res just so they can go onos when they have done nothing to help thier team. And as for counter measures? There are none. It all depends on which team controls the res. And now the marines have electical defenses for res and tf's, the skulks are almost useless for clearing marine terrut farms and res. This job has been moved to the gorge and now puts the only builder for the alien team in harms way. Sure, an onos can clear a electified res away but try and find one when you need one.
I remember reading somewhere that a two hive gorge can be used as a counter to siege. Why? Because the gorge has the bilebomb? Last I checked, where you find a siege cannon, you'll also find terruts and usually lots of them. Now as I see it, one of two things are going to happen, 1) The terruts will cut the gorge to shreds before it can even get close enough to attack it or 2) if there is any alien structures near the gorge when the siege hits then that gorge will most likely to die from the siege blast long before the bilebomb can stop the siege. Either way, the gorge can't counter the siege alone just like a single marine can't counter an onos attack.
This leads me to something else I wanted to mention. Marines who leave thier base alone and whine when the get eaten by an onos. Most of you would just reply, "your an idiot and you deserved to die, try going out in groups". Sounds like a responce from a 13 year old child with a additude problem. Well, you can't always have that luxury if your team needs res and even if you did go out in groups, an onos with regen can still eat you and gore the rest of your pathetic 2 or 3 man group.
I just hope NS 3.0 has fixed all the imbalanced issues that came with the dreaded NS 2.0.
skulks run barely faster than marines, at 1 hive without celerity. a sidejumping marine can buy himself atleast another second in which to kill the skulk.
as an alien the only way i can kill a marine as skulk is if i bhop (any average rine) or with support.
as a marine the only way i die to a skulk is if the skulk bhops, or has support.
kickback happens constantly. any marine that jumps while getting attacked will get kickback.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what if you're the unlucky one who just can't seem to kill anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they can destroy stuff too theres no way to destroy rts 'the wrong way'. if they cant do any of these 3 they need to practace.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe the players need to think up new tactics is all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats a <b>complete</b> list of the tactics.
about the hive, im saying that its defenceless, much like the cc. it wouldnt take much 'tech' to electricute the cc, just like it wouldnt take aliens much thinking to make the hive build ocs out of itself.
Hm, it takes a skulk less than a second to kill a marine. Maybe instead of charging at the marine in a long hallway, you could wait for him to come closer or ambush him?
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Jan 16 2004, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Jan 16 2004, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok one 1.04 wasn't balanced the marines won 99 percent of the games with equal skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Waaay overstated. Jetpack rushes were bad, but they were never as rampact as some of you guys make it out to be. I rarely saw one man pwn the hive early as jp.
I actually remember pretty even wins at 1.04. Jetpack rushes were not always successful. In contrast, I worst problem I remember is the dreaded cargo hive. I think I only remember one game where aliens won after letting marines take cargo in ns_nothing...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Waaay overstated. Jetpack rushes were bad, but they were never as rampact as some of you guys make it out to be. I rarely saw one man pwn the hive early as jp. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok maybe I said this wrong.
When good people play evenly matchs marines always won. Jps and spawn camping were both very easy. Jps if done right were unstoppable
I guess im looking at this from a match perspective
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Jan 16 2004, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Jan 16 2004, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jps and spawn camping were both very easy. Jps if done right were unstoppable <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ill agree to that. But can you shoot down the rest of the game due to one poor decision? (decision being Flayra deciding to lowering jp prices to obscenely low to promote the use of it)
Then again, even accounting for jp rushes, at least the games back then were decided something like 15-30 minutes in. This is compared to 2.01's 5-10minutes, where someone on either team farks up and then the rest of the game (quite large amount of minutes) is basically one team finishing off the other. Back before, at least there was hope. Even though you knew they were teching for jps, or locking down hives (poor tactic, I know, but is devastating if they can actually hold it), you actually had a fighting chance up to that point. I guess thats my only beef with 2.0x's...
Comments
Although you should still play me that match
Actually not a bad idea, except it just makes people want to kill more, and the game's about teamwork, not fragfestting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens - Fragfest
Marines - Teamwork.
Please keep your facts strait.
and yes, if the aliens are supposed to be all sneaky then why do the marines have something that completely counter the entire alien theme? (was it a cruel joke against the alien players in a pre-1.0 release beta that was never fixed? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*straight.
Some of your points where OK but mate I'm gonna make this as easy to understand as possible using pictures...
the marines have:
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
+ HA but no picture for that
Aliens:
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
So doesn't it make a little sense that the normal unit which your generally stuck as for most of the game should be better then the peon of the aliens like the skulk and the skulk though in capable hands is deadly if we were to think about this
the marine would be worth 10 res while skulks are worth 2 simple because marines are more the all around guy and aliens have more choice. Oh yeah I disagree about the skulk being to slow as the marine nahhhh the skulk is faster.
the marine would be worth 10 res while skulks are worth 2 simple because marines are more the all around guy and aliens have more choice. Oh yeah I disagree about the skulk being to slow as the marine nahhhh the skulk is faster. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a black and white sense, yes, but keep in mind that situational advantage marines can have (Range vs. Melee), and weapon/armor upgrades. Furthermore skulks are substantially weaker then your average marine. If you had a skulk and a marine both aiming at each other, and both fired at the same time, I'm pretty sure the marine would lose at level 0 armor, and survive at level 1. Just shows how big a difference it makes.
I believe they should change it so one team can only be outnumbered by one person than two. (Ex:9v8 rather than 9v7.) Forcing people to go random is crap. There are times that I don't want to play marine at all, and other times when I don't want to go alien. Give the people a choice as to what they want to play as, naturally.
Skulks run faster than marines, especially with celerity, and especially with leap. Skulks aren't meant to be running up to marines, they are meant for ambush. They are meant to SKULK. If you die in an ambush, maybe you didn't plan your ambush correctly. Anyone can look up at a ceiling, yes. Maybe you should sit lower on the ceiling so the drop isn't that high and they won't have time to shoot/look. Maybe you should sit around the corner to the side instead of the ceiling. You choose a spot that helps you the most.
Though I am a bit saddened by the amount of ranged attack for aliens, this is true. Kickback rarely happens to me, I don't see it as a problem. Also, as a marine it's nice because then you have a chance to fight for your pathetic life instead of CHOMP CHOMP, you're dead. Aliens can kill a marine just as quickly as a marine can kill an alien.
In regards to the new resource system... It's a TEAM based game. If you only got upgrades according to how many kills you get think of the negative effects of this. Team mates would be scraping to get as many kills as they can. You'd hear cries of "You stole my kill!" and create some unhappy campers. What if you're the unlucky one who just can't seem to kill anything? You say the newbies can gorge. Do you really trust all the newbies to gorge properly?
The strategies you have listed, when you think about it, where not suggestions BY the game or the developers. These tactics have developed from people who PLAY the game. Maybe the players need to think up new tactics is all. I'm not saying that's easy, because it isn't.
You mention new upgrades to make it more exciting and complex. Maybe give us some examples, please.
And the hive is just like a comm chair. That's like complaining that the comm chair is just a hunk of metal and doesn't do anything. It does plenty of things. The hive not only spawns players, it gives aliens new abilities and the option of getting a new trait which gives you various upgrades. It heals you and it heals itself. It does plenty.
I personally felt that NS 1.04 (with all the bugs it had) was by far, the most balanced of gameplay. Now, before you start shouting "what is this guy smoking", hear me out for a minute. In NS 1.04, the aliens needed more hives to evolve into higher life forms and having more then one gorge would slow down the res flow for the entire alien team. Also, for just about every advancement the marine team could get, the aliens could come up with a semi equal counter-measure for. JP = Lerk, 3/3 marine = Fade, HA/HMG = Onos
In NS 2.0, the aliens only need one hive to obtain any life form and the more gorges you have building res, the faster the res flow gets for all aliens. Even the "nubs" waiting for 100 res just so they can go onos when they have done nothing to help thier team. And as for counter measures? There are none. It all depends on which team controls the res. And now the marines have electical defenses for res and tf's, the skulks are almost useless for clearing marine terrut farms and res. This job has been moved to the gorge and now puts the only builder for the alien team in harms way. Sure, an onos can clear a electified res away but try and find one when you need one.
I remember reading somewhere that a two hive gorge can be used as a counter to siege. Why? Because the gorge has the bilebomb? Last I checked, where you find a siege cannon, you'll also find terruts and usually lots of them. Now as I see it, one of two things are going to happen, 1) The terruts will cut the gorge to shreds before it can even get close enough to attack it or 2) if there is any alien structures near the gorge when the siege hits then that gorge will most likely to die from the siege blast long before the bilebomb can stop the siege. Either way, the gorge can't counter the siege alone just like a single marine can't counter an onos attack.
This leads me to something else I wanted to mention. Marines who leave thier base alone and whine when the get eaten by an onos. Most of you would just reply, "your an idiot and you deserved to die, try going out in groups". Sounds like a responce from a 13 year old child with a additude problem. Well, you can't always have that luxury if your team needs res and even if you did go out in groups, an onos with regen can still eat you and gore the rest of your pathetic 2 or 3 man group.
I just hope NS 3.0 has fixed all the imbalanced issues that came with the dreaded NS 2.0.
as an alien the only way i can kill a marine as skulk is if i bhop (any average rine) or with support.
as a marine the only way i die to a skulk is if the skulk bhops, or has support.
kickback happens constantly. any marine that jumps while getting attacked will get kickback.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->what if you're the unlucky one who just can't seem to kill anything?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they can destroy stuff too theres no way to destroy rts 'the wrong way'. if they cant do any of these 3 they need to practace.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe the players need to think up new tactics is all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats a <b>complete</b> list of the tactics.
about the hive, im saying that its defenceless, much like the cc. it wouldnt take much 'tech' to electricute the cc, just like it wouldnt take aliens much thinking to make the hive build ocs out of itself.
Two Skulks can kill marines just fine you just need to get better at it.
Waaay overstated. Jetpack rushes were bad, but they were never as rampact as some of you guys make it out to be. I rarely saw one man pwn the hive early as jp.
I actually remember pretty even wins at 1.04. Jetpack rushes were not always successful. In contrast, I worst problem I remember is the dreaded cargo hive. I think I only remember one game where aliens won after letting marines take cargo in ns_nothing...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok maybe I said this wrong.
When good people play evenly matchs marines always won. Jps and spawn camping were both very easy. Jps if done right were unstoppable
I guess im looking at this from a match perspective
Ill agree to that. But can you shoot down the rest of the game due to one poor decision? (decision being Flayra deciding to lowering jp prices to obscenely low to promote the use of it)
Then again, even accounting for jp rushes, at least the games back then were decided something like 15-30 minutes in. This is compared to 2.01's 5-10minutes, where someone on either team farks up and then the rest of the game (quite large amount of minutes) is basically one team finishing off the other. Back before, at least there was hope. Even though you knew they were teching for jps, or locking down hives (poor tactic, I know, but is devastating if they can actually hold it), you actually had a fighting chance up to that point. I guess thats my only beef with 2.0x's...
Hopelessness.